Expertvillage has a new dumb-dumb

[luv2show]

... for lack of a better word. :huh:

Take a look at this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNCKCbtTaTc
:eek: One of the worst examples for how to canter on the lungeline I've ever seen. :nono:And what is she talking about? You want them to buck on the lungeline? ARE YOU JOKING ME?! :doh: Gotta love the "Whoa" at the end too...
I sure hope people don't believe everything they see or hear!

Have anymore favourites?

[cloedoll]

Three words: oh my gawd.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, it's not the worst example of lunging I've ever seen, it's a fairly serviceable job of it actually for the amount of precision she's asking for, but the thing that perplexes me about these Expertvillage things is that all of them appear to be paper thin on actual content and expertise! I mean, if you're going to do one of these things, script what you want to say, rehearse it, be better than average at it, and if you don't get what you're looking for, do it better and redo the tape! Don't just ramble and meander and see what happens and then submit it anyway. I mean, she sounds like someone who had not planned on explaining lunging that day and had to wing it on live TV. If that were true, it's not bad.

[PoniesRock101]

Wow! i've seen worse but still. I agree with WB

[livaward]

Well in a way she is right.....you would rather them get out the excess energy but you don't want them to buck........you want the horse to have enough manners and respect to know that it is time for work not goofing off......and whoa.....means stop.....not keep going just at a slower pace......I tell Pearl to whoa she stops. Whoa is relax time and if she doesn't listen she keeps working

[luv2show]

I agree with you all but I personally don't let my horse do that on the lungeline. If he wants to be a nut he can do it on his own time. If you watch some of her other videos the horse often pulls her when he starts goofing off... as soon as your horse does that he's showing a lack of respect for you. Thats one of several reasons I don't let Tanner do that. It's also a very easy way for them to get hurt...

[HeartofSteel]

Omg I totally lol'd at the "whoa" "whoa" at the end. I also agree with Wbay

[jeezitsjacki]

it says the video is no longer available... no fair!

[luv2show]

Here's another one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoc2qftsOqg&NR=1

Now I know this is a young horse but this is a horrible example of lunging. Yes, you can expect a bit of a challenge when changing directions but now like that. In other videos that horse is constantly nipping at people and whatever it's tied to. In the video he pulls back and even charges towards her. I would have stopped him right there, that's for sure. And he doesn't look like he gives to pressure very well... and it looks like he's headed for a disaster.

[luv2show]

it says the video is no longer available... no fair!


I'm getting that too. I guess you have to click on the link to see it.

[sugarsgirl]

Like WB said, its not that bad of a job, I've seen worse. But It wasn't the best I've seen either. That whoa at the end was brutal, lol, that horse needs to learn to listen to commands better. As far as the bucking goes, I used to had to let the horse that I used to ride buck on the lungeline, it was the only way to be able to ride her without her bucking while undersaddle. I don't let my horse buck now though, but she also doensn't buck in the first place, so I really don't have a problem concerning that.

[HeartofSteel]

The second video is probably of a horse that has never lunged much before. I have been in this same situation with horses that have never lunged. If you don't have a round pen it can be difficult, the horse is just trying to figure out what she wants. He wasn't charging her but just figuring out what she wants of him. I have had a horse do the same thing with me cause he had never been lunged before, it took him a couple minutes of going backwards and forwards before he got the idea to around.

[luv2show]

As for the first video, I never said it was the worst, but one of the worst. I totally agree with what WB said about the "expert" part though...
I still don't believe letting a horse buck around on a lunge line is a good idea but we all have our opinions I guess...

2nd video, At 1:11 the girl had to move out of the way because the horse was coming right into her space... We do not know if this horse has lunged before but either way I would be be backing him out of my space.

[WashingtonBay]

Here's another one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoc2qftsOqg&NR=1

Now I know this is a young horse but this is a horrible example of lunging.

I got bored watching her dink around too long switching the chain around. :sleep: If it gets better later, I missed it.

[luv2show]

Hahaha

[livaward]

I got tired of her trying to hook the chain........but went back to watch when you mentioned the 1:11 part

[WashingtonBay]

Alright... I finished it. Again.... paper thin on any explanation of what she's trying to accomplish and what works, and what doesn't work.

"Hi, I'm an ExpertVillage idiot, and I'm going to stand out here and give rather vague clicks and clucks and jerks to this horse and see if anyone, including this horse, can tell me what the point is..."

[GrungeEquestrian]

I agree with you all but I personally don't let my horse do that on the lungeline. If he wants to be a nut he can do it on his own time. If you watch some of her other videos the horse often pulls her when he starts goofing off... as soon as your horse does that he's showing a lack of respect for you. Thats one of several reasons I don't let Tanner do that. It's also a very easy way for them to get hurt...

I COMPLETELY agree with you luv2show, the other day I free lunged Trouble and she decided to buck and strike the sky like some mustang when she was cantering. I got her back on the line and yelled everytime she tried. As you said they can do that on their own time...I don't want my horses assosiating(sp) lunging as the time to act like a nut case. Anytime I am with her she is expected to behave...she can act like a nut all she wants in the pasture.

The first video isn't the worst I have seen, but far from acceptable...."Its ok if they buck....It's ok if they buck!" Its almost like she was saying over and over to convince herself. "whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa!" O yes the horse is going to respond the third time around because it likes the number 3 the best it should have been more like "WHOA....*yank!*"

But the second one o that was a laugh, my aunt's mare was new to lunging too but she wasn't allowed to get away with that crap and never got PRAISED for bucking and running around like a manic on a spree. Seriously, maybe if she had gotten behind him without have the whip in his face and walking towards him he would do a tad bit better.

[carla]

Yup, you have to click on the link. I was more worried about the whole lunge line wadded up in her hand in the second one than anything else..

[WashingtonBay]

I still don't believe letting a horse buck around on a lunge line is a good idea but we all have our opinions I guess...

I don't either, but that little bit of sass I probably wouldn't have given the horse the third degree for... just an "Ack! knock that off".

The problem I have is the lack of depth and preparation. She has a minute and a half to explain what she's going and she rambles and repeats herself and has no apparent plan. "I'm going to go out here and ramble and kiss to the horse and she'll sortof go around in circles for me."

I would have said "OK, today we're going to show how to achieve a canter on the lunge. I'm going to give the horse a clear direction with my voice and body language to move out and move into a wider circle. I'm going to give a clear crisp cue to canter by saying "Canter!" and backing up that cue with the whip. I'm looking for the horse to pick up the canter promptly and on the correct lead. If the horse breaks from this gait or gives any backchatter or sass I'm going to give an appropriate correction and enforce discipline. When I ask for "whoa" I'm going to ask clearly and crisply and I'll ask one time, and then correct the horse if she does not come to a complete stop.

And then I'd do it. And keep doing it until I got the example performance I'm looking for.

On the second one, she doesn't give any clue how to get the horse restarted again when he gets flustered... she just clucks and clicks and rambles and luckily, this horse likes to move enough that he picked the right direction.

I'd have said... "OK, starting a horse on the off side is often challenging. I'm going to help this green horse by positioning myself on the off side behind the shoulder facing the rear end and asking for forward movement. With such a green horse, I'll keep him slow and relatively close in at this stage. If he gets flustered I'll reposition and give him a clear direction to 'move out' again. As the horse learns and understands, he'll earn more line and faster gaits when he can move out without racing, pulling on the line or losing his composure. The goal here is communication and obedience, not just chasing a horse in circles."

Something like that. :p

[carla]

Hmmm, sounds great, WB!

...do I sense a new Village Expert on our hands? :whistle:

[WashingtonBay]

Oh heck no! :)

And set myself up to be mocked all over horse forums? I think NOT! I think you have to have a lot of brass to say "I'm Joe-off-the-street and I'm an Expert horse rider" or whatever they say. It's a strange 'place' that expert village. They should say "Random Joe off the street you get what you pay for Village".

[carla]

LOL I know it!! I alllmost logged on earlier to say, "well guys, that was me in the videos so that's why I took them down.. sorry you didn't like them.."

But I figured nobody would fall for it.. :doh:

But yea, I hardly like to put up pics of me riding, so I don't see a pro video line coming out any time soon. ;)

[jeezitsjacki]

ok I went back and watched it during a homework break.. ya the woah was pretty painful. I never let my horses buck on the lungeline because before I lunge them I usually let them run around the arena first and then is when they can buck, off the lungeline before bucking. that is their playtime, lunging is worktime. Also I have a bad shoulder and it kills my shoulder!

[Palogal]

L2S I would like to say thank you for pointing out yet another example of crappy horsemanship. I would further point out that it was NOT ME that found it. Come on L2S you can have a seat next to me on the negativity couch!

[TLC97]

Ok is expert village code for idiot village? There are some many things wrong with these videos.

[TLC97]

Check out this one:

YouTube - How to Canter or Lope a Horse : How to Steer a Horse at a Canter
WOW, I needed a laugh today.

Click on the top of the box where the title is and it will work.

[palomino]

I would freak out too, if I hadnt learned to give to pressure while longing and there was a chain across the nose. Ouch.

[palomino]

wow direct reining in a shank bit, and riding like a jackass- nice.

[Oreos Girl]

As a relative beginner, for those of you that say that you don't allow a horse to buck on the lungeline, what type of correction do you give to prevent it? I do agree about the whoa's it should be one and then something to back it up.

Robin

[WashingtonBay]

Not sure what's up with the embed code now. I'll have hubby look into it.

Oreo's, I'll give a sharp line correction and a "ACCCCK!" for a horse acting up, and if it's extreme, I'll give several and bring them all the way to a halt.... Then, send them back out, calm, quiet, slower. For me, lunging is not about blowing off energy, it's about them learning to control energy. I don't let them canter on the lunge or get up too much of a head of steam until they can control themselves. Lunging for me is about obedience and responsiveness, and learning that they can't express every emotion they feel the moment they feel it. All of us have to learn to keep our composure in check.:innocent: Save that energy for the ride ahead, control it, meter it.

[Oreos Girl]

Thanks WB. I have learned a lot from this and h.com forums and I continue to learn everyday. I grew up with a horse that thought he was a dog (really) and was very obedient and good. It is hard not having that perfect horse anymore though Oreo is very good.

[WashingtonBay]

I can understand that! Nothing beats having a horse you've seen the full range on and know you can trust. I'm beyond finding the challenge of new relationships 'fun'.

It helps me, and may help you, to do enough ground work to see the whole range of their emotions. Test them a little bit. Make demands even when they don't want to, push them past their comfort zone a little or add some obstacles like a cavaletti or poles or a new location, and test your ability to work them through those things. Test their temper and see if you can bring them back if they lose it. That will help you understand better how they think and respond to the new, the unexpected, the irritating, and the difficult. And once you know that, then you are better prepared for working them through these kinds of emotional responses under saddle.

That's what I see as the benefit of lunging. If people are just letting them run around till they get tired, they're wasting energy and wasting an opportunity. :)

[IrisGreen]

I guess if you put up a video under the name "expert" you are fair game for critique. This girl isn't a "new dumb dumb" she has been doing these videos for a long time. If it was just a girl lunging her horse and that's how she did it then it wouldn't be so bad but to put it under the title "expert", when her teaching ability and example is far from a good example or explanation on controlled lunging.

I start Muffin out in a walk and he has to walk a few laps in both directions and turn when I ask him too with out spunking out. He has to control himself and walk until I say he can trot and only when I say it. I'm kinda a control freak on lunging. I can't stand when someone hooks up there horse and they immediately start trotting around before being given a cue. It's like the second you hook a line to them and step away off they go and they were never taught to stand, walk, trot, canter and whoa only when cued. Some just run around like it's time to act crazy!

I agree with WB. Lunging is a practice in control, responding to cues, and fine tuning respect and expectations. Not a mindless running in circles, dragging the human around, spunk out like a crazy horse and see what all you can get away with exercise.

I really like Clinton Anderson's ways of lunging for respect and the calm control he teaches the horses to respond too. Proper lunging gets the horse thinking and obeying, improper lunging just teaches them to ignore you and keep running in circles tell they get tiered.

[Annie&Dixie]

I haven't read everybody's responses but I am overall not ok with a horse bucking on the lungeline but I don't mind a few bucks here and there. I do agree with her a bit where it's ok to let the horse buck a few times to get some excess energy out but it will not be excessive bucking or just pure craziness. The horse should still listen and should know when we're working again. My concern will grow if the horse bucks at me, that's a biggie to me.

Oh and WB, I don't think the embedding works because ExpertVillage requested the embedding to be disabled on youtube.

[Dakota Sunrise]

I agree with WB- I didn't think it was that bad, not great but I've seen worse. I do insist on stopping at just one whoa- and she (Beauty) does 99% of the time. If not, then I take another step in getting her to stop, I don't just say whoa over and over.

I don't agree with letting them think that bucking, kicking out, or rearing on the lunge line is okay either. Beauty tends to do that, but I let her know that it isn't correct behavior. I usually say "Hey hey!" in my "mean" tone, give the line a yank, then just cotinue on normally. If she stops, doesn't move out when I tell her too, and give me a little attitude rear, then I yell, flick the whip or the end of the lunge at her, and drive her away like crazy.

I don't know if that is the "correct" thing to do in those kinds of lunging situations, but it works for me.:)

[Palogal]

Who's joining L2S and me on the negativity couch?

[WashingtonBay]

I think if you want to be on something called a 'negativity couch' it's better if you don't invite others to join you.

One of them might mess up and say something constructive or positive and ruin the whole mood. :)

[alittleoffkey]

Yup, you have to click on the link. I was more worried about the whole lunge line wadded up in her hand in the second one than anything else..

That's all I could see too! That was one of those huge things that I was NEVER allowed to do. I started to get a habit of it when I was little and my cousin would stand behind me and wack me with a crop every time I started to wrap the rope around my hand. I learned quick. ;)

From the last video, I do hate that western pleasure fad... that nasty falling-down-dead-lame "lope" that girl has that poor horse doing... :doh: Who on earth even began thinking that it was remotely attractive? :huh: And direct reining in that bit? OW!

[vicklynn]

Alright... I finished it. Again.... paper thin on any explanation of what she's trying to accomplish and what works, and what doesn't work.

"Hi, I'm an ExpertVillage idiot, and I'm going to stand out here and give rather vague clicks and clucks and jerks to this horse and see if anyone, including this horse, can tell me what the point is..."


Villiage Idiot...LMBO...good one.
I still didnt get to see the first two, unless that one later on is the same.

[luv2show]

Who's joining L2S and me on the negativity couch?

Lol, maybe not negativity but... constructive criticisim :p :) lol

[alittleoffkey]

You meant to put quotation marks around "constructive criticism", right luvs2? :p

[luv2show]

Ahahaha, actually I was going to put those but then I had a brain fart and couldn't spell criticism right so I had to ask my mom... lmao.

[TacheteTreasures]

My first trainer was one of the people that said it was okay for a horse to buck on the lungline as a way to get rid of excess energy. Then, she decided to give a student(my best friend, actually) a lunge line lesson to help with balance. Well, the horse just thought it was get rid of energy time even with someone on her back....

[shynbvs]

wow... one time i looked at a bunch of their videos. EXPERTvillage doesn't know what they are talking about! I am 13 and i could make better "help" videos than they can. just...wow

[Palogal]

There are many roads to Rome and all of that but I personally find it much easier to teach the horse that a cue ALWAYS means a specific action. Such as "whoa" means - all four feet still, never walk, or slow down or any of that. As for the bucking thing, my horse is welcome to buck so long as I am not there interacting with him. So, he cannot buck in the round pen when I'm working him, on the lunge line, when we're playing in the field or under saddle. He is welcome to buck as much as he likes in the pasture or turned out in the arena etc.

It's kind of the same principle as you don't spray a cat with water unless you want him NEVER to do something - like scratch the screens or something.

[Palogal]

Lol, maybe not negativity but... constructive criticisim :p :) lol

Ok fine...

Anyone else for the CCC (constructive criticism couch)?

[twofingers]

well I'm not really one to speak,,--- but,,-- yea those people are idiots. personally I don't lunge. I train at liberty . I have never used a round pen nor a lunge line! I train in an Olympic size arena or a five acre field.