Bay's Checkup with the vet this afternoon...

[WashingtonBay]

Hope for the best with the old guy. :)

This is a mostly-routine appointment to do his teeth and sheath, but there are some other symptoms I want to ask about.

For starters, his bowels are a little loose. Not the whole ‘movement’, but a squirt of near water at the beginning or the end, followed by fairly normal looking apples. What’s up with that? He was making a mess of his tail, and I braided the top of it to keep it cleaner but I don’t know what’s causing that.

Water consumption may (have been) part of it. Somebody was drinking an inordinate amount of water for about a week. Consumption went from filling the buckets once a day to needing to fill them twice a day and topping it off again at night.

I can’t say for sure who was doing it, but I saw Bay standing there a lot, and doing some odd behaviors, like swishing his mouth in it. It’s actually what prompted me to think it might be his teeth... either they need done, or he’s got a loose one (sigh if he’s starting to lose teeth) that hurts and the cold water made it feel better. That was my theory. I looked but not very well, and couldn't see anything amiss. He's eating well on his hay.

So yeah, it was during that period of crazy consumption that he was watery too. Of course, the water consumption also had me worrying about something like Cushings.

So I made the appointment. Now the water consumption has gone back to normal, buckets only down about half way in the morning or evening when I fill them.


Questions.... questions that need answers.


Physically otherwise I think he's sound as a bell and feeling good on his feet, and that's what our appointments have always focused on in the past. But I wonder if the vet will want to run blood or some other test to look at his internals this time? What do you all think? Maybe it will depend on what we find in his mouth.

[Arrow]

Wow, I'll be thinking about you this aft--let us know as soon as you do.

[Vibe]

Well he looks like a healthy old boy!! I'll be thinking of you and Bay good luck!!

[cyb]

Bloodwork might be a good idea, if nothing else just to see how everything is functioning. I will be thinking of you and Bay this afternoon.

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Good Luck with the appointment this afternoon.

[westmanfarrier]

Our grass is going nuts right now. We have some very cold evenings and a couple of storms to really stress the grass, then mid 60's during the day. NSC on the sunny midday very high.

Change in seasons = change in feed? Bacteria need to adjust.

Just a couple of ideas

[WashingtonBay]

Thanks for the ideas and for the well wishes.

Heck, maybe it's even time to actually try to understand what Gypsy's talking about with pre and pro biotics. ;)

[westmanfarrier]

From what I got when I was at the AAEP convention, the biotics available on the market currently were actually engineered for bovines, with a very different digestive system than equines.

I have not done a lot of research myself, I should because a lot of people ask, but I am not sold one way or another. Some people totally believe pro biotics help their horses. My opinion is not to go messing with their very sensitive hindgut without vet help. I think we all know what the consequences can be.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, I think the vet is pretty good with this stuff so I'll see where the conversation goes today.

I think there's something up with his mouth. He's never been one to just play mouth games in the water. Hubby's horse, yes. :rolleyes:

[palomino]

My vet is totally for the probiotics- after charlie died, he suggested that I keep my other horses on a daily probiotic to help prevent colic. I did it for awhile, but Inka is such an easy keeper, and she doesnt need much. I just give her a little probios paste once in awhile to make sure everything is running smoothly.
WB, you take such good care of that old guy! I wouldnt worry much- He doesnt look anything like a cushings horse. Keep us updated, I will be checking in all day.

[Gypsy Rose]

Hope Bay checks out okay, WB!

In light of all this, maybe it's time I start a new thread...

[palomino]

He may need floated, or have an icky tooth thats kind of ouchie, also.

[westmanfarrier]

Hope Bay checks out okay, WB!

In light of all this, maybe it's time I start a new thread...

GO!

I am eager to learn more about the -biotics.

[SedonaThunder]

Good luck to Bay this afternoon!

I'm thinking along the lines of Westman - as the nights have gotten colder all four of mine have "changed" a bit... one drinking more, one picking at his food, one with runny poops and one stiffer than usual. I see this each season change though so I don't pay much heed to it unless it goes on for more than a week or so.

On the bloodwork... do you not normally have a blood panel done or are you just talking about additional tests? I have bloodwork done every Spring on all of mine - it's what my vet convinced me to do so that if anyone ever "isn't right" we will already have a "baseline" to compare any new bloodwork to.

YOU DON'T GIVE A PRE/PROBIOTIC???:D:D Hee, hee... teasing - I would think they're kind of "hippy" for you! Lele gets a light pump of the bottle morning and night since she is my light drinker/pooper but the boys all get a light squirt every evening. I guess since I've never not given them I can't say I see a difference - it's just always been one of my "can't hurt, might help" products - those crazy Dynamite hippy horse people talked me into them five years ago!;) When I've had a horse with an obvious bellyache/gassy and syringed 20-40cc's I feel like I've seen relief... but maybe it was almost past anyway? Hard to tell... :)

[Vegashorselady]

My vet strongly recommended the use of Probios. Especially a week before and after worming or a feed change. She said anything that might upset the balance of healthy bacteria in the gut the probios will help with.

Here's hoping Bay gets a gold star from the vet! He certainly looks like a healthy senior.:)

[TLC97]

Bay thinks you haven't been giving him enough attention ( you have been too busy building this board), so he figured he would through in a few extra worries for you. Just kidding.

I hope every thing goes well.

[SedonaThunder]

From what I got when I was at the AAEP convention, the biotics available on the market currently were actually engineered for bovines, with a very different digestive system than equines.

I have not done a lot of research myself, I should because a lot of people ask, but I am not sold one way or another. Some people totally believe pro biotics help their horses. My opinion is not to go messing with their very sensitive hindgut without vet help. I think we all know what the consequences can be.

DyaPro is one of Dynamite's top sellers and has been for years - they were one of the very first companies to really start pushing the prebiotic and really looking into the research of how/why they worked... and they developed it for horses. I have tons of information on them (would just have to dig for it) and have been particularly interested in the research showing how they can possibly help in the onset of laminitis. For instance... this is from a UK researcher.
"When an excess of sugars or starch overflows from the foregut into the hindgut it is digested by a minority of the bacteria present. These bacteria then multiply very rapidly, producing lactic acid as they do so. Recent research has shown that as the hindgut becomes more acidic its walls become "leaky" and laminitis trigger factors (LTF's) "leak out" into the bloodstream. When the LTF's reach the foot they cause changes that are the subject of intensive research by scientists around the world. These changes precipitate laminitis. In those cases where a digestive upset in the hindgut is the trigger for an attack nutritional advice should centre on re-establishing the correct bacterial population, and therefore the correct acidity, in the hindgut. This is one in which fiber-digesting bacteria predominate and bacteria which digest sugars and starch are not allowed to proliferate. A fully comprehensive supplement that also includes probiotics and optimum levels of the nutrients needed to improve hoof quality is ideal. Probiotic substances include "true probiotics" such as lactobacillus acidophilus (which works in the foregut and may help to reduce carbohydrate overload into the hindgut), yeasts and MOS. Yeasts create beneficial conditions for the growth of the fiber-digesting bacteria in the hindgut. MOS (mannan oligosaccharides) bind to the sugar and starch-digesting bacteria and remove them from the gut in the feces, thus minimizing the production of the lactic acid that triggers the chain of events that lead to a laminitic attack. By removing the acid-making bacteria MOS leave the beneficial, fiber-digesting, bacteria free to multiply. "

[WashingtonBay]

You're right about the change in weather, it is pretty normal for them to have some bowel changes at various times of year. I try not to obsess on it. It's the shooting of near water out the back end that caught my attention, but then the poop that followed would look pretty normal, considering it had been sitting in water. ;)

I'm going to go out here in a few and check his rear end and clean it up again, if necessary, then I'll be able to tell if he's still got messy butt this afternoon when the vet is here.

Never had bloodwork done on any of them. What are you looking for when you do it every year? I don't even know that. It's interesting what others view as perfectly routine. It's not like it's been offered and declined, it's never been recommended that I do that.

And no I've never given any hippy biotics :D

[WashingtonBay]

Bay thinks you haven't been giving him enough attention ( you have been too busy building this board), so he figured he would through in a few extra worries for you. Just kidding.

I hope every thing goes well.

He'd be right. I feel like all I've done the last couple of months is throw food at him. He thinks he's been put out to pasture, I think. So do the others, but they don't seem to miss the attention. :D

[Country Girl 43]

Aww WB I hope everything is OK....When I had bloodwork done on my 2 horses it was less than $100 for both. I don't know anything about Probiotocs so I'll leave that to everyone else. ;)

[mtnmollie]

Wow, I'll be thinking about you this aft--let us know as soon as you do.

Yeah.
:cowboy:

[vicklynn]

Not sure what to tell ya. But I sure hope all is ok.
((HUGS))

[cloedoll]

Sorry, I'm a little late on this thread, but I hope all is well with Bay!

[cyb]

Never had bloodwork done on any of them. What are you looking for when you do it every year? I don't even know that. It's interesting what others view as perfectly routine. It's not like it's been offered and declined, it's never been recommended that I do that.

:D
I had bloodwork done on my old mare and also the neighbors horse that I was in charge of, vet reccommended it to make sure their kidneys were functioning properly and such.

[WashingtonBay]

Not late at all cloe, appt's not till this afternoon!

Thanks everyone :)

[Equine_Woman]

K well update us asap!

[palomino]

ummmmm Ok its 1:12. afternoon. Im just sayin.

[WashingtonBay]

Oh - but the appointment isn't till 3 :)

3 oclock on a Friday afternoon after my vet has been up to his armpits in animals all week. I hope he still has interest in mine when he gets here! :D Not the best time of day for anyone.

I've been out cleaning up my barn and putting down fresh shavings and sweeping my grooming area and otherwise trying to put on a good display of responsible horse husbandry while I wait. ~pace pace pace~.

[SedonaThunder]

Never had bloodwork done on any of them. What are you looking for when you do it every year? I don't even know that. It's interesting what others view as perfectly routine. It's not like it's been offered and declined, it's never been recommended that I do that.

When I go over the blood panel with my vet we look at anything out of the normal range. When one thing is a bit off (which most horses have one or two things on the cusp) it doesn't always mean anything - but if paired with certain other things it can. For instance, if the globulin is a little high it might mean there's something toxic happening IF coupled with high bilirubin but it might be an infection if coupled with low bilirubin. OR another example is low cholesterol could mean a few things - liver congestion with low triglycerides, or failing thyroid with high T4, or in Timber's case it was coupled with high posphorus which points to a stomach acid problem - possibly explaining his enteroliths.

Overall, most of mine (except for Rainy's which told us in advance we were probably going to lose her) come back in the normal range but it will make it easier for me to know each year if something is changing. Had I run blood on Rainy before she was "not right" we may have caught the liver enzymes in time to at least prolong her time. Also, all of my horses are on the cusp of being high on glucose - this is sometimes a symptom of it shooting up because they hate needles or it could be a warning of something else (like liver issues) so we watch it.

I will be looking forward to hearing how Bay's appointment went!

[IrisGreen]

I hope all goes well today :) It sounds like it's just the weather and possibly him having a lose tooth or recently figuring out playing in water is indeed fun!! Then figured out maybe he should drink so much while doing it! lol

When I first went to de-worm Muffin, later the next day he was not feeling himself and by the second day he was colicing and had a bad belly ache. He had never been wormed before and I think it really effected his hind gut. I was recommended to give him Pro-bio's and that restored the balance in his hind gut and brought him out of it. The next time I wormed him I gave him the pro-bios on the second day and he was fine. Now I always give him 1/2 a tube on the second day after worming and I haven't had a problem with him getting a belly ache or having a bad reaction to worming.

Yesterday, I picked up a tub of powdered Pro-Bio's from TSC. I was wanting to start adding it to his feed. Then I come on here and there is a whole thread about Pro-Bios. lol What a quinky dink! lol

I will check back and see how the vet visit went. Take some pics!! :)

[WashingtonBay]

I will check back and see how the vet visit went. Take some pics!! :)

I will if it seems like I can pull it off without my poor vet feeling like he's on display. ;) (particularly because he's pretty dang good looking and I don't think that's lost on him! :D)

[palomino]

Even better reason to take pics!

[Dakota Sunrise]

I'm definately late finding this thread:(- my internet went down yesterday and I worked from 9:30 to 5:00 today and didn't get to sign on until now. My bad.

I hope everything went well and Bay is okay. He looks like a healthy old boy, he's lucky to have you.:)

[WashingtonBay]

Even more reason to question my motives, lol. :D

[WashingtonBay]

Not late Dakota... He gets here in about 15 min, assuming he's on time. :)

[lovesfortune]

Just seeing this too. Just wanted to know that I'm thinking about you and Bay and I'm sure the old guy is alright. Just had to shake you up a bit! :)

A cute vet.... PICTURES........

[Gypsy Rose]

We'll be waiting to see how it goes!

[jeezitsjacki]

Well its exactly 3 o clock. I hope the vet is on time and everything goes well!

[Arrow]

:whistle:

[cyb]

:yawn:

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Any update on Bay?

[Arrow]

:sleep:

[JackieB]

Looking forward to hearing how Bay's appointment went, WB.

[Arrow]

Poor gal's probably out feeding and putting them up for the night...it's dinner time out on the coast, I believe.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Not late Dakota... He gets here in about 15 min, assuming he's on time. :)


Lol, when I wrote that it was after 5:00, I thought the vet was coming at 3:00. The time difference always confuses me.:p When I was in elemetry school and was studying the chart of the time zones, I understood it perfectly... I just memorized it in the wrong order.:o To this day it still confuses me.:rolleyes:

[WashingtonBay]

Tending my drunk horse so doesn't get himself in trouble!

He's wandering around in the yard because I didn't want him out with the others yet. But he's coming around and starting to wander where he shouldn't!

Vet appt was good.... He was here for almost two hours.... Bay looked pretty good lunging... A little stiff, but he's basically been standing around for a month so not bad...

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/10-24-08003.jpg

15 minutes later he looked like this:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/10-24-08005.jpg

Pathetic sight! I hate to see him that way, I always think he's going to fall over. Doctor never worries. He said "If he falls over the farm call is free." He said that usually gets people to stop worrying about it and actually wanting them to fall over. ;)

That's the only picture I took. I'd have loved to get more, but I didn't have any free hands, holding Bay's head up and his tongue out of the way.

His teeth needed doing but they're all still there and looking good.

On the diarrhea, he didn't want to run any tests yet, he thought that would just cost money and not help much... he said we should run down the obvious list of causes and treatments first.

First was sand, and he didn't find any sand in the poop. Said there still might be some in the system, and Sand clear wouldn't hurt.

Panacure Power Pack. He wants me to do this to see if encysted small strongles are the culprit. Double dose of Panacure every day for 5 days.

And probios - so I'll get Gypsy to tell me exactly what to get because it still sounds like hippy herbs to me. I wouldn't know what I'm looking at.

And then see! If he still has a problem, he'll run more tests. Said he looks very good. I agree, he does look good, when he's not drunk. :)

[starkitten]

Glad to hear Bay is doing well ")

[Mandzanita]

Good to hear, and I see you snuck a shot of the vet's hotness, not the most flattering photo but I can see what you meant :)

[WashingtonBay]

(I tried!) :D

[WashingtonBay]

And THANKS all you guys, for worryin' about him :) I appreciate it!

[cloedoll]

I lol'd when I saw that picture of Bay, ha ha! I'm glad he's doing good, I don't understand those fancy terms, heh, but continue to keep us updated! =D We all love your Bay and like to know he's doing well. (:

[Arrow]

Pathetic sight! I hate to see him that way, I always think he's going to fall over. Doctor never worries. He said "If he falls over the farm call is free." He said that usually gets people to stop worrying about it and actually wanting them to fall over.
That gave me quite a chuckle!!!

Glad things went well!

[WashingtonBay]

Other things we talked about while he was here... He asked us how the economy was treating us, and we said we were doing fine. I asked him how his business was and he said he was doing a lot fewer of these kinds of calls. That people were not calling for routine stuff as much, he's given about half the vaccinations he usually gives. But calls for emergencies, and things that can't wait, he's still getting.

And his surgery business is real good. He does visiting orthopedic surgeries for several smaller clinics, and he said the kind of people who can afford to spend several thousand dollars putting a broken leg back together are apparently still able to afford that. He's busier than ever. I fear I'm going to lose him to that business, because he really likes it. He's not taking new farm clients, just the ones he already has.

[starkitten]

That kind of stuff always scares me - good vets and farriers are hard to find. I have both right now and would hate to loose either one of them...

I would pay more if I had to. Anything to keep them coming

[cloedoll]

Huh, that's interesting WBay. I hope he continues to be your vet, that would sure be a bummer if not. =/

[WashingtonBay]

Yeah - I like him because he's particularly good with movement and lameness, he used to ride dressage and he knows what good movement is. He was always better at seeing the little subtleties of Bay's movement I'd be concerned about in the past, better than lots of other vets.

But he's making himself quite a name in the specialty surgery business, traveling all over to do special orthopedic surgeries, on horses, dogs, cats, whatever with broken legs in need of pins and plates and nuts and bolts. He's showed me some of the xrays before.

There are other good horse vets in the area. But none as good as him on movement and lameness. And surgery, I guess. He'll keep us as clients until Bay's gone, I'm sure. The question will be if he'll actually be available for an emergency or out of town putting a dog leg back together.

[cloedoll]

But he's making himself quite a name in the specialty surgery business, traveling all over to do special orthopedic surgeries, on horses, dogs, cats, whatever with broken legs in need of pins and plates and nuts and bolts. He's showed me some of the xrays before.

That's really, really neat! Again, I hope he will remain your horseys vet.

[mtnmollie]

I lol'd when I saw that picture of Bay, ha ha! I'm glad he's doing good, I don't understand those fancy terms, heh, but continue to keep us updated! =D We all love your Bay and like to know he's doing well. (:

Glad Bay is doing good. :cowboy:

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Good News. Funny pic of Bay!!! Such a cutie.

[Gypsy Rose]

Glad Bay's doing fine- poor boy- he looks like Gypsy did the few times she had to be sedated- definitely drunk, he, he!

[WashingtonBay]

Tomorrow I'll ask you exactly what to buy for probiotic. Tonight I'm pooped and I'm going to hit the couch soon!

Something that Allivet.com carries would be good, that's who we order our other meds from.

[Dakota Sunrise]

I felt the same way when Dakota was sedated to have his teeth floated, I was so worried he would fall over. The dentist told me (I use my vet for teeth now- this was when I first bought Dakota) "Don't let him lean on you- don't try to hold up all his weight. If he does fall over he'll take you right with him.":eek: That didn't do much to comfort me!:(
But the dentist actually did a great job and was a nice guy.. and Kota didn't fall over.;)

Anyway, I'm really glad to hear that Bay is still doing good!:) Yay!:D

[JackieB]

Glad Bay got a good check up!

[JetLagaside]

Glad to hear all is well!

[alittleoffkey]

My vet told me to smack Leggy if he got too wobbly. He nearly fell once. :rolleyes:

Sorry I missed all this! I'm gone for the day and *poof*. I'm glad to hear Bay's doing well, good luck with the meds and the biotics - let me know if they're hippy stuff or the real deal. ;)

[Ryle]

Just really watch the old guy for at least 2 weeks after giving a powerpac---at 2 weeks is when you see the worst inflammation from it if there are encysted strongyles so you can see colicy symptoms then.

[Gypsy Rose]

Go for the GI Conditioner- it's actually what I feed Gypsy- they just have renamed it to Ultra Elite Digest. Unless you find something at your feed store that's equally good- check it against the GI conditioner.

So long as Bay has no ulcer problems- obviously not, since he can handle bute, lol- or allergy problems with soybeans- that would be your best bet through there.

It does have precursors for digestive enzymes, that's why I brought the ulcer thing up, lol!

I know for a fact that stuff works!

[Country Girl 43]

Glad to hear Bay passed his vet examine. He's such a good ole boy! Please keep us updated on his...um....well poop piles. :) Ladybird gets that way too sometimes. I make sure her pellets are soaked really well at night. Sometimes a change in the hay has caused her to have runny piles.

You know with age..things start to work differently. ;)

[walkinthewalk]

I am also glad to hear Bay came thru his vet visit with none the worse for the wear, except for a slight hangover:cowboy:

I recognize that "Monkey face" in the lunging pic. My Arab is really good at making monkey faces when he's upset about something ---- generally me - lol lol lol

Just as an FYI for the Walking Horse owners: The first time I had the equine dentist out, he double-checked me as to what breed my horses are.

He commented that Tennessee Walkers are drug-sensitive --- the amount it takes to sedate a Walking Horse to do tooth work, "wouldn't phase the whiskers on many Quarter Horses" :eek:

My Arab is the little guy at 875# and he ended up having as much Happy Juice as any of my Walking horses; the lightest of which tips the scales at 1,075.

I know the vets & dentists all know that, just wanted to make Walking Horse owners, or anyone with a mix breed, aware so you can ask the drug-sensitivity question when it comes time:cowboy:

[cyb]

Glad to hear Bay's checkup went well!

[vicklynn]

Well, glad to hear that he is ok. Hope that those tests dont have to be done.
dont ya just feel for a drunk horse...poor babies.

[lovesfortune]

Good news for Bay! ** off to check out the Probios thread to see what they are exactly **

[WashingtonBay]

Good morning and thanks for well wishes!

Ryle, thanks for the tip on watching him the next couple weeks after we start the powerpack. Will do.

Gypsy, I don't understand the ulcer warning.... are you saying some kinds of these things can be bad for ulcers or hard on them somehow? I mean, he doesn't have ulcers, but I don't understand the warning about it and whether I should get that kind or not.

Should I start the probiotics after the power pac is done, or before, or at the same time? What are the considerations?

[WashingtonBay]

I know the vets & dentists all know that, just wanted to make Walking Horse owners, or anyone with a mix breed, aware so you can ask the drug-sensitivity question when it comes time:cowboy:

Bay takes a lot more than our Cyn does. He made a note after last time to go light on Cyn because she was really sedated when we did her. Bay has taken an extra shot sometimes in the past. This time, he was more awake than he often is, but tolerant of it. Vet said "he's OK, I can wrastle with him if you can".

[Gypsy Rose]

What I'm saying is that IF a horse has been diagnosed with ulcers, your vet would need to be consulted before using ENZYMES, which the GI Conditioner has. On other words, if Bay is having no problems with the occasional bute, he shouldn't with the enzymes, either. Probiotics, on the other hand, should be perfectly fine, as they are active in the hindgut, and not the stomach.

As for the deworming, if you already have him on a supplement, you just keep on feeding it. If you don't have him on a probiotic, I would use it right after deworming.

Does Bay still have the runs today?

[Gypsy Rose]

Ack! Powerpac runs more than one day- sheesh! Brain fried this morning! It may depend on whether you're planning on putting him on daily supplementation, or just a one shot deal.

Let me know which way you were planning to go.

[WashingtonBay]

I don't know if he does today, it's still dark out and I haven't been out there yet.

But I would assume nothing's changed, I haven't started him on anything yet.

Well, here's my thinking on it now that I've had a little more coffee... Let's see if this sounds good. I'm thinking I want to do one new thing at a time so I know definitively which thing made the difference.

I'll do the Panacure thing to see if there are encysted strongles. Ryle says I should watch two weeks after that too in case there is inflammation where the little darlings came out. OK, check.

If one of these supplements could be hard on ulcers, I'd imagine they could be hard on any inflamed part of his innards from the strongles too. So I figure I shouldn't use that till he's healed.

And I wonder if he should be on anything with the enzymes in it at all, or if that's just something unnecessary I should avoid.


How's that?

[Gypsy Rose]

Then lets's go with the straight probiotics for now- probably a smarter idea.
The only thing I don't like about Probios is that it's not specially formulated for horses, though it does have directions for feeding horses, and SmartPak and other horse supply catalogs carry it, which means it's widely used in horses. However, unless your feed store carries a better product, this would still be a good option to try- there have been good reviews out on it.

I fully understand not wanting to order from a separate company for just one item!

[IrisGreen]

The kind of "pro-bio's" that Gypsy is recommending has more then just the normal pro-bio's. That's why she is saying the Enzymes in that specific brand might effect a horse with ulcers. Normal pro-bio's don't have any added enzymes so you wouldn't have to worry about it.

I would give him the pro-bios (this is a name brand by the way, ProBios) a few days after the worms treatment. It comes in a tube like a wormer does and you give 1/2 a tube as needed. Give 1/2 a tube a few days after the wormer then the rest the next week. The wormer kills off good Bactria that the hind gut needs that's why they want to colic after a good worming.

This is what I do with Muffin because he coliced after his first good worming. It's like us eating yogurt and getting the flora in are system to keep us regular and are system in balance. The Bactria and flora help brake down food for the body to absorb but the wormer kills them off and upsets the balance. It can make his system too acidic and lacking in the "good" Bactria and now that it's too acidic the "good" Bactria can't grow back as well and it leads to loose stools. Once you give the probios and the "good" Bactria have a chance to re-grow and balance out the acid level everything will go back to normal.

This is what I understand. I'm no expert but it does make since. That's why they push us humans to eat more yogurt to help are digestive systems re-build the flora that we need and it helps balance are system. It works too!! :)

[IrisGreen]

Ohh, I didn't get to comment on the cute vet!! :) He is a cutie!! Best looking horse vet I have seen!! Poor bay all drunk but it's better to be drugged sometimes then be fully aware. I like the part about if he falls over the ranch call is free! hahaha Then people start hoping there horses fall over??!! That is sad but the vet does have a point, they stop worrying about "if" the horse is going to fall over. lol

Sounds like it went really well and I sure hope you can keep your vet. I like the neat looking trunk thing in the back of his truck! Pretty neat how it opens and have all his stuff in it.

[oursarge]

Hugs to Bay! I hope all will go fine with him for a very very long time.

[WashingtonBay]

OK Gypsy and Iris.... I'll look at what's available this weekend at the feed store, and report back to you. That would be the easiest place to get it, assuming they have something that's appropriate.

Oh - and Iris... when he first started out, fresh out of vet school, he was at my dog vet clinic, and he had this long blond surfer hair. I was single then, and I tell you, I never waited to take those poor dogs in for every little thing. It was an expensive relationship! :D He said even then he was looking forward to having a horse practice later, which he did.

Now, he's married and so am I.... and he have a much more practical relationship, and he has more practical hair. :)

[Gypsy Rose]

Thank you Iris Green for explaining it better! My problem is that Gypsy was started on the enzymes, then I went back to probiotics, and she stayed on them until I had to go with a combo product- I had to do some research to find out when to use the probiotics for deworming, since Gypsy's been continuously on them!

At Bay's age, it wouldn't hurt to keep him on a probiotic indefinetly.

[WashingtonBay]

I am still not sure what either of you are talking about but I'll buy whatever you think for the horse. I don't eat yogurt either :p

[Arrow]

It all sounds so scientific...I will be following closely and trying to learn something! (((hugs))) to Bay!

[Gypsy Rose]

:hysterical: I'll take pity on you WB, and see if I can find a site that explains what probiotics are in plain English! Translate this hippy stuff for you, lol!

[IrisGreen]

Oh - and Iris... when he first started out, fresh out of vet school, he was at my dog vet clinic, and he had this long blond surfer hair. I was single then, and I tell you, I never waited to take those poor dogs in for every little thing. It was an expensive relationship! He said even then he was looking forward to having a horse practice later, which he did.

Now, he's married and so am I.... and he have a much more practical relationship, and he has more practical hair.

hahaha Yeah, that sounds like an expensive relationship!! I bet you were not the only female taking in the dogs every chance you could get!! lol

My vet is not cute at all and even has the bottle thick glasses like the military issues out. They are horrible and make his eyes look 3x bigger. I get cross eyed just trying to look him in the eyes! We switched dog vets when he docked one of are pups tails way too long. He said "I measured" and yet all the pups were right except for one was docked way too long. That happened to be the one we wanted to keep so now are smooth haired Border Collie/Mc Nab looks like a pointer with this 4 inch nub of a tail. I blame it on the bottle glasses and that pup was most likely the first one he docked and messed up so he did a better job on the others.

[Gypsy Rose]

From MedicineNet.com:


Definition of Probiotic

Probiotic: A microbe that protects its host and prevents disease. The best-known probiotic is Lactobacillus acidophilus, which is found in yogurt, acidophilus milk, and supplements. Probiotics counter the decimation of helpful intestinal bacteria by antibiotics. Probiotics given in combination with antibiotics are therefore useful in preventing antibiotic-associated diarrhea (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=1900). The yeast S. boulardii and three strains of Lactobacillus have also been shown to be useful in this regard.

Wikipedia- more in depth, but still basicalky understandable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotic

[WashingtonBay]

Well, Iris, at least the bottle glasses keep the relationship more affordable. :D

Thanks for trying Gypsy - I'll take your word for it! :D :D

[IrisGreen]

Here is a link to Probio's from Horse.com. There prices are great on this stuff. I usualy buy the tube for about $11 at TSC and they sell it for half that at horse.com. I just recently purchased the powder and gave some to Muffin yesterday. I figure I will sprinkle some on his food once a month or so. And of course after any worming or upset stomach. There are two testimonials on the page too from people saying it stopped there horses runny stools. It does work and it's good for there digestion, especialy in older horses that need all the help they can get when there teeth start to go and they can't brake down there food as well. The probios help the hind gut function properly and braking down the nutriants so the body can absorb them.

http://www.horse.com/Horse-Supplements/Digestive/Probios-Equine-BWA95.html

[KCandAllegro'sMom]

I have to agree that your vet is a cutie!

[TLC97]

YEAH!!!!! Good news on Bay.

[fire1]

Good news about bay, WB. I thought I'd tell you we use probiotics for the endurance horses. They usually get a hit with a tube before a ride, during and after to keep them moving well. Fire gets a tube when he has teh runs, which accasionally has happened from feed changes or different kinds of hay or excitement! The probiotic clears it all up. I think in laymens terms it is like peto mismal, makes there tummies feel better and the rusn go away.

[WashingtonBay]

Thanks! Well, I looked today when we were at the feed store and the only probiotic they had was "ProBios". They had tubes and powders, I figured I'd get the powder for daily use if that's the right stuff....

And I learned that Allivet has the Panacur Power Pack in the double dose tubes, 5 of them, for about half the price of 10 of the regular tubes at the feed store, so we've ordered that online. So if he's got any of them lovely encysted strongles that don't show up on my fecals, we'll get them.

[Gypsy Rose]

Yep- that's the right stuff. Between that and the Power Pak, Bay ought to be the healthiest horse around before you're through.

Does the ProBios look like this?

http://www.allivet.com/Probios-Feed-Granules-p/25911.htm

Or this?

http://www.allivet.com/Probios-Dispersible-Powder-p/25913.htm

Basically from what I can tell, same thing, just different form, lol!

If it is, that's the one IrisGreen and I were talking about.

You might want to compare your prices, see which is cheaper next time. Neat that you can get it through both your feed store and your vet supply.

[fire1]

I buy the tubes of probias too. We keep them on hand. Last spring fire wasn't feeling good, no idea, slight temp, not on his feed as much and lots of diareahi. after 2 days of him not feeling well, just not energetic, I called my vet and they recommended the tube of probios before bringing him in. 2 days later he was back to himself! Much cheeper to keep on hand than a vet! ;)

[WashingtonBay]

They had both forms at the feed store, and tubes... I figured we'd go with the powder. The Allivet (http://www.allivet.com/?Click=2244) prices are better.

[IrisGreen]

That's great you found the probio's. I'm like Fire1, I keep a tube around just in case. But, I recently bought the powder. It's a little easier to feed and I don't have to worry about him spiting it out like I do the thick paste gel. I just sprinkle it on his food and he doesn't have a choice to spit it out. lol

I would give Bay a dose then wait a day or two and give him another. Just one dose will start to get him back on track so you don't want to shock his system by giving it to him every day at first. It wont hurt him but it's just best to take it slow.

I gave Muffin that dose 2 days ago and he had a nice big poop yesterday. One of the best I have seen him have in a while. His are normal anyways but this one was much better and bigger like his system was moving better. He's lazy so his poops are not that big, I guess from his system not moving as good as it should with more exercise. He sure had a few nice ones yesterday like his system is waking up and moving better. He's even feeling better and not so sluggish.

It doesn't give them energy it just puts there system in balance. Muffin sure needed it. Both of us have been really lazy during the summer with triple digits. I didn't do much with him so now I go out and lunge him a little and he is wore out after ten minuets of walk, trot. lol We are building up his stamina again now that it's cooled down. Plus, getting some extra weight off him.

[Harleys Owner]

Glad to hear he is doing good:)

[rums_mom]

Glad Bay's exam checked out well........

It may sound like new age hippy stuff but really it is more old fashioned. Before all the fancy new pharmaceuticals came about, our systems didn't need probiotics because we got what we needed from our food sources. But now after decades of soil errosion, overfarming and other desultory environmental conditions, we as well as our animals need supplements whether they be mineral or probiotic.

PS....our vet is a "surfer" dude too! No kidding, he looks like he should be hauling a surfboard not a vet pack.......he is a cutie as well............