Vote for Obama if-

[mtnmollie]

1) You like the idea that - He wants to take our guns away.

This is the first step to loosing all our freedom.
A government of the people is not afraid of an armed citezenery.

2) His birth certificate is not publically availabe?
This is good because we dont need to know things that we dont need to know.

What else is he hiding?
Is he an American citizen?

3) If you want change, vote for Obama.
Senator Obama's record is more liberal than that of any other Democrat in the Senate.

documentation- National Journal 's 2007 Vote Ratings, National Journal Group, INC. 2008 nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm ( Sept 29, 2008)

4) When he was a state Senator in Illinois, he voted 4 times in three years against legislation that would have saved the lives of babies that managed to survive the abortion process.

documentation- bornalivetruth.org/obamarecord.aspx (September 2008)

In March 2001, ( Senator) Obama was the sole speaker in opposition to the bill on the floor of the Illinois Senate. He said

We're saying they are persons entitled to the kinds of protections provided to a child, a 9 month child delivered to term. I mean, it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child.

documentation - Rick Santorum, " The Elephant in the Room, Why Consertives should support McCain. " The Philadelphia Inquier, April,21, 2008, philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080421 ( Sept 29, 2008)

[Arrow]

Vote for Obama if you think he'll make a heck of a great president, and you think he's just what this county needs. If you think McCain would be better, vote for him.

[HoustonFarrier]

When you walk in the voting booth.....remember these words....

"spread the wealth"

Vote as you see fit.

Steve

[SedonaThunder]

I am still undecided but I find it interesting that I don't see negative posts about McCain from the Obama supporters but all kinds of negative (some evil) stuff on Obama from the McCain supporters.:(

[WashingtonBay]

I think it's a matter of perspective, because I've had the opposite impression. Not necessarily here, but in viewing both sides via political forums.

I mean... most of it has been silly.... mean spirited, but really silly stuff.

[JackieB]

He doesn't want to take our guns away. See WB, this is just what we were talking about the other day in the thread about political parties wanting to make sure that their constituents think they need them. You conceded that I probably had a point on the WOT (Which I appreciate very much, by the way. Very much. Often when I make a really compelling point that is probably stronger than my opponent's, the other poster just leaves drops it rather than responding.)

Isn't this posting saying "You need us if you want to keep your guns?"

The birth certificate thing is just ridiculous. Someone could get all the way to election without even being a U.S. citizen?

I think your Lolo Trail and horse stories are fantastic, Mollie. I'll stick to those if you don't mind. :)

[HoustonFarrier]

The birth certificate thing is just ridiculous. Someone could get all the way to election without even being a U.S. citizen?

Why won't he produce one? All we have right now is a copy....hell, you can't even get a drivers license with a copy.....

Steve

[vicklynn]

Man, I see McCain slammed all the time via Television, and that hits the whole USA.
I see more Obama adds on TV, slamming McCain than I do vise versa. And I try to ignore them all.

Im voting McCain, I dont care who knows it. Im for the USA, and will stand by it.
At least I know McCain will do that.
Id rather go in recession than loose the USA to another country.
I cant imagine the wars that would go on.

[mtnmollie]

The birth certificate thing is just ridiculous.

Almost everything I have posted on this board has been ridiculous.

Did you notice? :cowboy:

[vicklynn]

Oh and think about this.
If were gonna be fighting another country from our front door.
You WANT your gun, rifle, what ever.
Dont think it can't happen.
It may.

[mtnmollie]

He doesn't want to take our guns away.


That is not what I read yesterday- so I guess not everyone agrees with

you or me point of view. :cowboy:

...but we are free to discuss this here.

I think?

[mtnmollie]

I am still undecided but I find it interesting that I don't see negative posts about McCain from the Obama supporters but all kinds of negative (some evil) stuff on Obama from the McCain supporters.:(

You think this is negative and or evil?

3) If you want change, vote for Obama.
Senator Obama's record is more liberal than that of any other Democrat in the Senate.

documentation- National Journal 's 2007 Vote Ratings, National Journal Group, INC. 2008 nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm ( Sept 29, 2008)

[WashingtonBay]

Isn't this posting saying "You need us if you want to keep your guns?"

No. It's disagreement with real goals and philosophies held by many democrats. Don't say taking guns from citizens is never on the agenda anywhere, it is. Ask people in California, or New York City, or DC.

[mtnmollie]

or New Orleans...

after the big storm.

[Arrow]

Almost everything I have posted on this board has been ridiculous.

Did you notice? :cowboy:

Yes, yes I did.:cowboy:

I'm with JB, though--the Lolo thread is fab, great pics and stories!

[rocknK]

They haven't really taken our guns away here in CA....just make them hard to purchase without jumping thru flaming hoops! Oh, & alot of firearms aren't allowed to be sold in the state. :mad:

[mtnmollie]

Step by step they lead us, and I will follow them all of my days. :)

[SedonaThunder]

You think this is negative and or evil?

3) If you want change, vote for Obama.
Senator Obama's record is more liberal than that of any other Democrat in the Senate.

documentation- National Journal 's 2007 Vote Ratings, National Journal Group, INC. 2008 nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm ( Sept 29, 2008)


Of course not Mollie... I thought all of the emails saying he didn't shake our troops hands, that he refuses to say the pledge of allegiance, that his best friends are terrorists and basically trying to lead people to believe he is a terrorist are evil.

[WashingtonBay]

See WB, this is just what we were talking about the other day in the thread about political parties wanting to make sure that their constituents think they need them. You conceded that I probably had a point on the WOT (Which I appreciate very much, by the way. Very much. Often when I make a really compelling point that is probably stronger than my opponent's, the other poster just leaves drops it rather than responding.)

I want to answer this though, Jackie, because while I conceded that you were right when you said Republicans want people to think we NEED them on the WOT, I don't see that as a strong argument for your side. I think we should shout it from the rooftops. We do NEED a strong president in the WOT, IMHO, and I don't think we can trust the left to be that right now. We NEED our government for defense. This is not a weakness on our part or dependence issue, it's the constitutional role of government to fight wars and protect us as a nation.

Quite different than the argument I made about the left spending decades now convincing women and minorities they can't make it on their own, they need handouts and special programs and protection from the government. Not just individually or rarely even, but as a class of people. What's too bad is that more women and minorities aren't really insulted by that.

[HoustonFarrier]

that his best friends are terrorists .
But it's TRUE.....and it goes a long way towards revealing hs character....which is VERY important to allot of folks. I don't know how old you are, but for those of us who lived through the "Ayers terror times", most of us despise him, and he should be in jail until his bones rot to dust. If someone came up to me and said..."hey Steve...you'e invited to Bill Ayers house for dinner..." I'd sooner eat a dead racoon off the side of the road rather than be in the same room with a piece of scum like Ayers.

When Bill Cinton was running for president, allot of folks brought up his propensity to run around with ALLOT of women......we were told we were full of it.....lo and behold.....Monica proved us right....we were right then...we are right now.

Character means allot....if it walks like a duck...and talks like a duck....it's a DUCK!

Steve

[JackieB]

No. It's disagreement with real goals and philosophies held by many democrats. Don't say taking guns from citizens is never on the agenda anywhere, it is. Ask people in California, or New York City, or DC.

But Barack Obama has clearly stated that he supports our Second Amendment rights. It's right on his website and I've heard him say it. And the Supreme Court just ruled recently in the Washington, D.C. case that this does apply to individual gun ownership and is protected.

Here is a quote directly from Obama
“I believe there is a Second Amendment right. I think it is an individual right. I think people have the right to lawfully bear arms.” [SOURCE: OFA policy statement; Obama press conference, Watertown SD 5/16/08; CBS News 9/05/08 (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/05/politics/fromtheroad/entry4419917.shtml); Obama on CNN 6/25/08; Obama Bloomberg Interview, 6/26/08]

So why does this continue to come up?

I will readily admit that the type of gun control that Second Amendment adherents fear is on the agenda of some. But it's not fair to throw that blanket over almost any Democrat that aspires to high office. It seems like I hear it every election even if the candidate is very clear in his/her support of the right to bear arms.

There are probably a couple hundred thousand conservatives who feel strongly that women should be at home with their children rather than working outside of the home. Would it be fair for someone to say that we shouldn't vote for McCain/Palin because they don't want women to work? Of course not, that would be ridiculous and I would expect to be blasted if I made such a statement. But I should think that this is a legitimate issue to be raised against Obama because some in the Democrat party do hold this opinion?

[WashingtonBay]

So why does this continue to come up?

Because they're just words. What does the right to bear arms mean to him? What kind of arms? Where and when I can carry them? Concerned people who have been reassured before and been bitten on the butt by the details want to know. We don't let down our guard that easily. Any slack will be taken up by the other side. We know this.

[JackieB]

I thought all of the emails saying he didn't shake our troops hands, that he refuses to say the pledge of allegiance, that his best friends are terrorists and basically trying to lead people to believe he is a terrorist are evil.

I posted pictures of Obama having a meal with troops in Afghanistan. I was told "Oh no JackieB, that's military brass" or something to that effect. I didn't know my insignia, but felt certain that the person in the photo was regular enlisted. Do you think any of the military forumers would step into clear this up and say I was correct? Many of them undoubtedly saw my query. No. WashingtonBay, who I regard so highly because she will be fair even if it doesn't suit her own argument, finally informed me that the gentleman (I don't know if I should say airman here) was a Senior Master Sergeant. Enlisted. Hardly "military brass".

This is what bugs me. I will admit when I'm shown to be in error, such as with the Earned Income Tax Credit the other day. It's not so much to ask for the same in return, and most importantly that we all do our part to try to be fair and not spread misinformation.

I probably better back down a bit

[mtnmollie]

But it's TRUE.....and it goes a long way towards revealing hs character....

Character means allot....if it walks like a duck...and talks like a duck....it's a DUCK!

Steve

Well said Steve. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

So why does this continue to come up?


I said that today because of a letter to the editor I read yesterday.

I will see if I can find it- later today.

I gotta feed my horses- :cowboy:

[HoustonFarrier]

was a Senior Master Sergeant. Enlisted. Hardly "military brass".


Senior Master Sergeant is an E-8 in the Air Force....second highest enlisted rank......definatly "military brass" of the enlisted ranks.

Steve

[WashingtonBay]

Well, dang it Jackie, now I have to try to always be fair to deserve that kind of compliment because you expect so much of me. :innocent:

It's very limiting! :)

[Hobo]

BUT his ACTIONS speak MUCH louder than his words. His voting record is 100% the total opposite of what he says.


But Barack Obama has clearly stated that he supports our Second Amendment rights. It's right on his website and I've heard him say it. And the Supreme Court just ruled recently in the Washington, D.C. case that this does apply to individual gun ownership and is protected.

Here is a quote directly from Obama
“I believe there is a Second Amendment right. I think it is an individual right. I think people have the right to lawfully bear arms.” [SOURCE: OFA policy statement; Obama press conference, Watertown SD 5/16/08; CBS News 9/05/08 (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/05/politics/fromtheroad/entry4419917.shtml); Obama on CNN 6/25/08; Obama Bloomberg Interview, 6/26/08]

So why does this continue to come up?

I will readily admit that the type of gun control that Second Amendment adherents fear is on the agenda of some. But it's not fair to throw that blanket over almost any Democrat that aspires to high office. It seems like I hear it every election even if the candidate is very clear in his/her support of the right to bear arms.

[mtnmollie]

By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily



Excerpt from New Party publication (Courtesy New Zeal blog)
JERUSALEM – Evidence has emerged that Sen. Barack Obama belonged to a socialist political party that sought to elect members to public office with the aim of moving the Democratic Party far leftward to ultimately form a new political party with a socialist agenda.

snip...

But the socialist goals of the New Party were enumerated on its old website.

Among the New Party's stated objectives were "full employment, a shorter work week, and a guaranteed minimum income for all adults; a universal 'social wage' to include such basic benefits as health care, child care, vacation time, and lifelong access to education and training; a systematic phase-in of comparable worth and like programs to ensure gender equity."

The New Party stated it also sought "the democratization of our banking and financial system – including popular election of those charged with public stewardship of our banking system, worker-owner control over their pension assets, community-controlled alternative financial institutions."

Many of the New Party's founding members were Democratic Socialists for America leaders and members of Committees of Correspondence, a breakaway of the Communist Party USA. Obama attended several DSA events and meetings, including a DSA-sponsored town hall meeting Feb. 25, 1996, entitled "Employment and Survival in Urban America." He sought and received an endorsement from the DSA.

According to DSA documents, the New Party worked with ACORN to promote its candidates. ACORN, convicted in massive, nationwide voter fraud cases, has been a point of controversy for Obama over the presidential candidate's ties to the group.

In 1995, the DSA's New Ground newsletter stated, "In Chicago, the New Party's biggest asset and biggest liability is ACORN.

"Like most organizations, ACORN is a mixed bag. On one hand, in Chicago, ACORN is a group that attempts to organize some of the most depressed communities in the city. Chicago organizers for ACORN and organizers for SEIU Local 880 have been given modest monthly recruitment quotas for new New Party members. On the other hand, like most groups that depend on canvassing for fundraising, it's easy enough to find burned out and disgruntled former employees. And ACORN has not had the reputation for being interested in coalition politics – until recently and, happily, not just within the New Party."



http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78945

[JackieB]

Senior Master Sergeant is an E-8 in the Air Force....second highest enlisted rank......definatly "military brass" of the enlisted ranks.

Steve

Give me a break. So now that's "military brass", huh? Whatever. My dad retired as an E-9 and I can assure you that you would have gotten something along the lines of the proverbial "Don't call me that, I am enlisted!" He didn't get to eat in the same mess hall at the "brass", I can assure you that.

So now if I want to try to clarify, I have to go find others who were in that mess hall (there were probably 50 people), but who didn't hold as high a rank as the guy whose hand he was shaking. But that wouldn't matter, I'm sure. There would be some other reason.

[JackieB]

BUT his ACTIONS speak MUCH louder than his words. His voting record is 100% the total opposite of what he says.

Welcome, Hobo! Glad that you are joining us.

I looked at his voting positions and didn't see it that way.

[JackieB]

By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily



Excerpt from New Party publication (Courtesy New Zeal blog)
JERUSALEM – Evidence has emerged that Sen. Barack Obama belonged to a socialist political party that sought to elect members to public office with the aim of moving the Democratic Party far leftward to ultimately form a new political party with a socialist agenda.

snip...

You're entitled to post whatever you wish of course Mollie, but I wouldn't personally use a site ( visited it) like this as a source if it was as far left leaning as this one is right. This is definitely the type of source that merits checking two or three others that are at least supposedly nonpartisan.

[HoustonFarrier]

Give me a break. So now that's "military brass", huh? .

I am a retired Army SSG...So, I know a bit about what I speak. You won't find many E-8's and E-9's eating in the mess hall with a table full of lower enlisted. They usually had their own "section" or even seperate dining room from the other enlisted.......

What your Dad would have objected to would have been called "Sir"...as his response would have been..."Don't call me Sir...I WORK for a living...."


Steve

[mtnmollie]

Obama's grandma confirms Kenyan birth.

Posted: October 23, 2008
11:33 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily


Philip J. Berg

The Pennsylvania Democrat who has sued Sen. Barack Obama demanding he prove his American citizenship – and therefore qualification to run for president – has confirmed he has a recording of a telephone call from the senator's paternal grandmother confirming his birth in Kenya.

The issue of Obama's birthplace, which he states is Honolulu in 1961, has been raised enough times that his campaign website has posted an image purporting to be of his "Certification of Live Birth" from Hawaii.

But Philip J. Berg, a former deputy attorney general for Pennsylvania, told the Michael Savage talk radio program tonight that the document is forged and that he has a tape recording he will soon release.



http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78931

[mtnmollie]

You're entitled to post whatever you wish of course Mollie, but I wouldn't personally use a site ( visited it) like this as a source if it was as far left leaning as this one is right. This is definitely the type of source that merits checking two or three others that are at least supposedly nonpartisan.

But of course, Jackie, all my ranting are non- sence and my
documentation of no value.

I quite agree. :cowboy:

3) If you want change, vote for Obama.
Senator Obama's record is more liberal than that of any other Democrat in the Senate.

documentation- National Journal 's 2007 Vote Ratings, National Journal Group, INC. 2008 nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm ( Sept 29, 2008)

Leaning too far left or right could be quite scarry.
It might bring change.

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

I keep reading all of this..back and forth stuff.

Can someone tell me what has Obama done for this country? Explain to me why economics in this day are more important than our country's security. Does Obama have the experience to lead this country as Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces?

I keep hearing the negatives... Tell me something that will make me want Obama for my President.

[vicklynn]

Senior Master Sergeant is an E-8 in the Air Force....second highest enlisted rank......definatly "military brass" of the enlisted ranks.

Steve

So true.

[mtnmollie]

The birth certificate thing is just ridiculous. Someone could get all the way to election without even being a U.S. citizen?

)

yep- ridiculous-

"Since Obama has only filed motions to dismiss and has not actually answered the charges in the lawsuit, Berg claims, according to Rule 36, Obama has legally admitted he is not a natural-born citizen.

Now Berg is asking the court for a formal declaration of Obama's admission and asking the Democratic National Committee for another presidential candidate."

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78671

Really? How very silly.
The Free Press is terrible.

WND Has saved our bacon before -
in other elections.

my 2 cents-

[mtnmollie]

You're entitled to post whatever you wish of course Mollie, but I wouldn't personally use a site ( visited it) like this as a source if it was as far left leaning as this one is right. This is definitely the type of source that merits checking two or three others that are at least supposedly nonpartisan.

Eight million visitors may disagree with yah. :cowboy:

Posted: October 22, 2008
10:26 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily

WASHINGTON – Presidential election coverage historically has been good for WND, and 2008 has been no exception.

Viewer traffic has steadily risen in the last five months, with the site now attracting more than 8 million visitors per month.

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78826

[alittleoffkey]

I couldn't agree more with Diane. I've yet to hear one single thing that would make me want Obama as our president.

<--is voting for McCain. ;)

[JackieB]

I keep hearing the negatives... Tell me something that will make me want Obama for my President.

Of course, Diane. I usually only jump in on these types of threads when I see something that I think is untrue and unfair to say about a person. It's the stuff like arguing that a Senior Master Sergeant is somehow "military brass" that gets me going. My dad would have had that rank, or perhaps was even an E-9, when we were stationed in Keflavik, Iceland during the Cold War and he froze out there on the flight line helping take care of the tankers and fighters. I'd bet anything that the Senior Master Sergeants go out in the field and risk their lives every day in Afghanistan and Iraq and I've got to argue with HF and Vick about whether or not they are really "the troops". Please forgive my irritiation, but I do think that I have some basis for it. And even if it was an officer that Obama was sharing a comment with, why would that be so bad? They don't understand the war? But I digress.

OK, here is what I listed out for Tatesgram when she said that she wanted to know why I would support Obama.

Here are my main reasons for supporting the Obama/Biden ticket:

Healthcare
McCain's plan isn't bad. It is definitely an improvement over what we have now. However, he does not address pre-existing conditions. That's a deal-breaker for me. Obama/Biden's plan completely addresses the issue of pre-existing conditions.

Insurance companies really don't want to insure people with any kind of significant health conditions if they can help it. And if they must accept these subscribers, the insurance companies would like to set the premiums very high ($1,000 - $1,500 a month is not unusual). I understand this. Insurance companies aren't in business to insure everyone. They are in business to make money. So, they either have to be forced to accept people with pre-existing conditions (and still earn money, just not as much), or the government needs to administer a plan.

Energy
Obama and the Democratic Party are now on-board with offshore drilling. So, there isn't a lot of difference in the two candidates' energy plans anymore. However, Obama is proposing $15 billion a year in federal funding for alternative energy research. I think this is a good investment in our future, even from the "less government" perspective because we can see that our national security is connected to oil. We have to get it from the volatile Middle East, and we also spend billions in countries where we'd prefer not to have to do business because they might use these resources against us someday.

Iraq
God Bless the troops. They have fought this war valiantly. I admire their contributions and dedication greatly, and some have paid the ultimate price for the U.S. And there have been successes in this war. But it's time to change direction. The Iraqi government wants us to leave, Afghanistan and the Taliban in Pakistan is an increasing threat, and we always have to worry about Iran. It's time to give the Pentagon the challenge of changing direction by drawing down troops in Iraq and increasing our presence in Afghanistan.

The Economy
I think that when we get to the bottom of what has caused our current economic crisis that we will find deregulation to be a major culprit. I used to be relatively unconcerned about deregulation because I believe in free market forces and I'm fiscally very responsible myself. But over the past two weeks, I've seen my own retirement plans take a huge hit and I'm looking at working many more years than I previously thought. I'm not blaming anyone, but I want more government oversight if irresponsible financial decisions on the part of others are able to impact me so directly. Obama is talking about more oversight than McCain.

Social Security and Medicare
I really don't know what McCain was talking about when he said in the last debate that the Social Security problem wasn't difficult to resolve, he just needed to reach across the aisle the way Reagan did with Tip O'Neal. If it was as easy as bipartisanship, we'd be there by now. The U.S. needs more tax revenue if it's going to address keeping Social Security and Medicare from insolvency. Obama showed that he understood this when he said that we have to address issues with taxes (e.g. repealing the Bush tax cuts) so that the U.S. is taking in more revenue.

I don't disagree with McCain that those earmarks are ridiculous, but saving $18 billion (if he cuts every single one of them out) would only make a small dent in the problem. I don't like taxes anymore than most people, but I'm not hearing any Republican candidates saying that their plan is to drastically cut Social Security and Medicare benefits for current and upcoming retirees to address the problem. And I don't see economic growth as being able to, either.

Probably a lot more than you wanted to read, but those are the main reasons why I support Obama/Biden.

Thanks,

JackieB

[JackieB]

I am a retired Army SSG...So, I know a bit about what I speak. You won't find many E-8's and E-9's eating in the mess hall with a table full of lower enlisted. They usually had their own "section" or even seperate dining room from the other enlisted.......

What your Dad would have objected to would have been called "Sir"...as his response would have been..."Don't call me Sir...I WORK for a living...."


Steve

OK, well I guess I'll back down on this one since both you and my dad have military service in your background and I don't. I guess you know what you are talking about here.

But I will say that I don't think it's very helpful to the debate that this even became an issue in the first place as a way to diminish a military visit by a presidential candidate. Clearly, the message was "Perhaps, but his visit still doesn't really count because he didn't meet with the "real" troops." I find that insulting not only to the presidential candidate, but also on behalf of what I guess are upper-level enlisted, and officers. If I was one of them, I think I would be a bit offended and say "Well, I'm over here risking my "real" life!"

I get it that Obama doesn't have military experience and some feel that he is utterly unqualified to be Commander in Chief, but why split hairs by arguing about the rank of the people he visited? I just don't understand.

[HoustonFarrier]

Clearly, the message was "Perhaps, but his visit still doesn't really count because he didn't meet with the "real" troops." I find that insulting not only to the presidential candidate, but also on behalf of what I guess are upper-level enlisted, and officers. .
For my part, I NEVER said that...yes, he visited the troops, as did McCain. I've been in units that were visited by dignitaries, and the dignitaries had no say in who and what they saw and met(generally). It was the commanders who set that up (generally).

I was just clarifying that E-8's and E-9's ARE indeed the "brass" of the enlisted corps..(and that is an important distinction that you seemed to overlook in my original post)

If Obama wanted to impress me......he'd have been out on patrol with a line unit of Marines......then I'd be impressed.....but he was "in the rear...with the gear" :cowboy:

Unlike Hillary, who was dodging bullets in Kosovo:p:p (NOT!)

Steve

[Tatesgram]

You're entitled to post whatever you wish of course Mollie, but I wouldn't personally use a site ( visited it) like this as a source if it was as far left leaning as this one is right. This is definitely the type of source that merits checking two or three others that are at least supposedly nonpartisan.

Wow Jackie, if you don't like that one, you really don't like TownHall.com. Most conservatives feel that we are not being represented in the MSM, so we go to what you refer to as leaning right to get the other side of the issues. They make no bones about the fact that they are conservatives, except Kathleen Parker, she's a liberal I don't care what she says :eek:.

I understand that you believe the promises that Obama is making, but come on, he is a politician. Without the senate and the house, they mean nothing. And we need some checks and balances. When was the last time we had all Dems? Was it Carter?

Jackie, I'll tell you what scares me about Obama, it's when I hear things like:

"He walks into a room and you want to follow him somewhere, anywhere," George Clooney
"I'll do whatever he says to do," actress Halle Berry said to the Philadelphia Daily News. "I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear."
supporters leaned perilously over railings, screaming and crying, trying to touch Obama as he passed

as though he were about to heal them by laying his (hands) on them.

"Is Barack Obama the Messiah?"

This is scary stuff. He's just a man, but people are atributing God like gualities to him.

Here's an interesting article by Oliver North

http://townhall.com/Columnists/OliverNorth/2008/10/24/messiah_deficit_disorder?page=2

Interesting reading.

And these aren't even the issues that convince me not to vote for him.

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Thanks JackieB

[JackieB]

Most conservatives feel that we are not being represented in the MSM, so we go to what you refer to as leaning right to get the other side of the issues.

.... And we need some checks and balances. When was the last time we had all Dems? Was it Carter?

Jackie, I'll tell you what scares me about Obama, it's when I hear things like:

This is scary stuff. He's just a man, but people are atributing God like gualities to him.



I do agree that the MSM isn't balanced when it comes to presenting both sides. I don't think it's quite as bad as some think (we do have people like Rush Limbaugh and Hannity and Colmes after all), but I understand. I usually just try to read through the "slant" and I'll look at other sources as well.

I don't want a super-majority that they are thinking might happen, either. We do need checks and balances. Power is too intoxicating. Republicans had the House, Senate, and White House for quite awhile too, and I thought that was bad. We all need a reason to have to listen to our opponents and work with them.

I think voters are excited about Obama because he has ideas that appeal to us (like healthcare, which is a key issue to me) and we aren't feeling very good about the current Administration, but I don't think we'll see blind following if he is elected. The problems he will face are too great, for one thing. And he also doesn't strike me at the type of leader that wants to force his decisions on others if there is an alternative.

We'll see. He's far from being elected. If there is one thing that we can say about voters, it's that they can be fickle.

[JackieB]

Unlike Hillary, who was dodging bullets in Kosovo:p:p (NOT!)

Steve

Hey, that pavement was hot! It was summer! A person could burn up a pair of shoes walking across that stuff. It's dangerous. :)

[JackieB]

I couldn't agree more with Diane. I've yet to hear one single thing that would make me want Obama as our president.

<--is voting for McCain. ;)

I appreciate that your mind is made up, ALOK. But I am a bit surprised that at least Obama's healthcare plan wouldn't potentially appeal to you. I just think that it's so important that everyone be allowed to buy into some plan at an affordable price without pre-existing conditions.

If you don't mind me bringing this up, I know that you are well aware of melanoma. And you also, thank God, know that a person diagnosed with melanoma can recover and then live a long and healthy life. But unless you know something that I don't, this person would not be accepted when applying for health insurance if the insurer has the option to turn that person down.

I understand this. The business risk of accepting such a patient is relatively high even though we know that the illness is treatable. The likelihood of paying out more in claims than premiums paid in, for that insurance subscriber, is very high. It makes more business sense to turn that person down. So this is at least one situation where I think that a carefully-constructed insurance program offered by the government, not free but with modest premiums because the group is huge, is worth considering. Considering. We've never even been able to get a serious discussion of this going before this election cycle.

I knew a young woman once who worked in the local convenience store. She was an adult on her own, but didn't have her first "really good" job yet. She went without health insurance as many do. She got a great job with benefits, but developed cancer (quite treatable) during the pre-existing phase. The poor thing was dealing with being sick, hair all falling out, her own mortality in her early 20's, not being able to work at her new job, and massive health bills. The community pitched in and helped her out as much as possible. Last I knew, she was doing fine, but she sure went through heck. I'd like her to at least have known that the maximum she would owe is $5K - $10K.

I know you've said before that there are things people can do such as agreeing to pay $5 a month or whatever and then the hospital has to leave them alone, but I just think there has to be a better way. Rather than consider a change in the system, we talk about ways to work around it by declaring personal bankruptcy, asking a judge to tell the hospital that we only have to pay $5 a month, and so on.

Anyway, I got to thinking about you saying that Obama offering "nothing" and wanted to ask you about the healthcare issue.

Thanks for listening

[zoel_222]

That all sounds peachy keen to me :D

[Tiz]

And so it begins...
Today, Barney Frank, D/Massachusetts, says that a 25% reduction in the military will be necessary.

Obama supporters:
Healing the economy, waving a wand over social security, socialized healthcare, government handouts, spreading the wealth, all the magical things that he says he will do for you, are moot if you are dead. We may be living in the most dangerous world in history. Electing a President that our enemies consider weak, with an antimilitary, Democrat controlled Congress to back him, is insane. Please consider this.

[Hobo]

Then there are parts of the Obama health care plan that bother me.

Namely the UP FRONT cost it will take to initate the program.
Note that this 10 Billion a year for 5 years ( AKA 50 Billion) is ONLY for building the electronic health care system and hasn't even started into the acutal insurance for the individuals.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf
Barack Obama and Joe Biden will invest $10 billion a year over the next five years to move the U.S. health care system to broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, including electronic health records
http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2008/03/a-detailed-anal.html
The Obama campaign estimates his health care reform plan will cost between $50 and $65 billion a year when fully phased in. He assumes that it will be paid from savings in the system and from discontinuing the Bush tax cuts for those making more than $250,000 per year.

http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2008/02/an-analysis-of.html
I do like this portion of McCain's plan though. right now as a veteran I have only two choices, Go to my local Va clinic or Drive almost 2 hours to the main VA hospital in the State. I've also had to wait as long as 6-8 WEEKS to get appointments, I've then had those appointments canceled at the last minute because the Dr wouldn't be there. Obama's Plan doesn't have any choices for veterans other than if you like it you can keep it or if you don't you can change.


Allowing veterans to use whatever provider they want, wherever they want by giving them an electronic health care card or through another method.

McCain has always had a special place for veterans and his health plan is no exception. While his goal of giving veterans access to any provider is noble, it will also be very expensive and there is no mention of what he estimates the costs will be or how he will pay for it.

[mtnmollie]

1) You like the idea that - He wants to take our guns away.

This is the first step to loosing all our freedom.
A government of the people is not afraid of an armed citezenery


Obama wantsto prosecute people who use guns for self defense in thie home. Impose a 500% taxon gunsand ammunation, expand gun and ammuntion band, paslaws eleminating right to carry laws.

He has a ten point plan to change the second ammendment in the constition. check web site www.gunbanobama.com
Joseph Curfman

Thanks for listening

[mtnmollie]

"Over the last sevearl years it has become very clear that the socialistic wing of the Democratic Party wil do everything in their power to remove your right to keep and bare arms. When you loose that Constitutional right we will be the criminals, and the socialist government will bethe master that will spread the remaining portion of your wealth around. " John Solberg.

Thanks for listening.

[mtnmollie]

I
I think voters are excited about Obama because he has ideas that appeal to us (like healthcare, which is a key issue to me) and we aren't feeling very good about the current Administration, but I don't think we'll see blind following if he is elected. The problems he will face are too great, for one thing. And he also doesn't strike me at the type of leader that wants to force his decisions on others if there is an alternative.



If he is going to do so much for us, why would he want to take our guns away?

Government health care does not work. Some people from Canada come to Spokane to get medical care because in their country the 'free" line can be a long one.

I am a voter, and I am not excited about Obama
so please dont say I am.

[Tiz]

Hello...hello?

[JackieB]

Sorry Mollie, I definitely meant "some" voters. I agree that a government healthcare plan isn't the answer. If there was consideration of disbanding private healthcare to be replaced with a government plan, I would be concerned.

Tiz,
I don't think any one representative, such as Barney Frank, can represent an entire political party. Plus, any president always consults with top military advisors before asking Congress to consider making major decisions.

Colin Powell's endorsement certainly says something. He's a man of integrity who isn't just trying to "pay back" the Bush Administration. I don't think he is wrong about Obama.

[mtnmollie]

I think your Lolo Trail and horse stories are fantastic, Mollie. I'll stick to those if you don't mind. :)

I thought you said you quit reading this thread?

...or I thought you said you quit reading my political posts?

I'm confused- but then- I get confused easily. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Sorry Mollie, I definitely meant "some" voters.

That's ok with me if you go overboard from time to time.

As long as I dont get too wet. he he . :cowboy:

[Tiz]

As I said, so it begins. Clinton cut the military, and Carter cut the military. That makes 2 out of 2 Democrat administrations in the last 30 years, or 100%.
Hillary Clinton, Democrat, said she would leave Iraq, no matter what the Generals on the ground advised. That's one potential President that would have let you down, JB.
Endorsements don't carry much weight with me. There isn't any way of knowing the inside stories that compel them, so I make up my own mind. I do recall that months ago Colin Powell said a black President would be "exhilarating". It's possible his choice has an element of racial pride.

[mtnmollie]

Cutting the military in an un- safe world makes no sence to me.

That's all the Federal gov't shoud be is military. :)

[JackieB]

I thought you said you quit reading this thread?

...or I thought you said you quit reading my political posts?

I'm confused- but then- I get confused easily. :cowboy:

Oops, you caught me sneaking back in to read your political threads. :)

[mtnmollie]

GWagh- I hope your not mad at me today.

I'd loose my biggest fan. oops. :cowboy:

[JackieB]

GWagh- I hope your not mad at me today.

I'd loose my biggest fan. oops. :cowboy:

Naaa, of course I'm not mad. :)

[GrungeEquestrian]

Man, I see McCain slammed all the time via Television, and that hits the whole USA.
I see more Obama adds on TV, slamming McCain than I do vise versa. And I try to ignore them all.

Im voting McCain, I dont care who knows it. Im for the USA, and will stand by it.
At least I know McCain will do that.
Id rather go in recession than loose the USA to another country.
I cant imagine the wars that would go on.

vucklynn I agree with you, when I read a lot of things online most of it is slamming McCain, though I don't have a lot of either on television. I live in Illinois so even though my parents are voting McCain..their vote really doesn't make a rat's difference.

[mtnmollie]

Every vote makes a difference. Always vote.

In other countries they go through bullets to get to the polls.

[alittleoffkey]

Heh, I'm not the best at wording these things but, I'll try. :)

Actually, when everyone was originally falling in love with Obama, I did a lot of research about his health plan - and it's not really a terrible idea. Not enough to get me to vote for him, not a solve-all... and not something I agree with - but really not a terrible plan. I guess Georgia is one of those states with laws about preexisting conditions - my mother has always been able to get insurance, and at a decent rate - despite having cancer twice in her twenties (melanoma and a molar pregnancy).

Whenever, as a pre-teen, I cried to my mother "But that's not fair!" she always told me to go find whoever told me that life was fair and kick them in the shin - because they had lied to me. :rolleyes: Life's not fair - I'll probably have to deal with that someday because of both my cysts and my pre-melanoma. The majority of my (and my mother's) peers did not develop skin cancer in their 20s... but I (and my mother) did. Whether that's my fault, Mom's or God's doesn't matter - my peers will probably get insurance more easily and they'll probably have lower deductibles. Some of us get run over by tractors... with or without insurance. Medicare (government insurance) doesn't cover chemotherapy - which I'm betting a lot of their insured need, considering the age group... nor does it cover a helicoptor ride to Grady Hospital. ;) We complained about the unholy amount to one another (as anyone would) - but we called people, worked it out and paid what we did because life's not fair and we play the hand we're dealt.

Government-run things just don't work like they should - the VA should have set Papa up an appointment for his chemo the first time he went there within the month - we shouldn't be sitting here, more than three or four months after we requested the first appointment, having just decided to pay for it ourselves because the VA isn't worth a single pile of horse manure - I don't understand why those who can easily afford to go elsewhere would ever bother with the VA (but Obama wants them all to go to the VA, so the lines are only going to get longer for those who can't go elsewhere). I think a lot of people are going to wind up hurting from this "great" new health plan of Obama's.

I think McCain understands the needs of our amazing veterans a thousand times better than Obama could ever dream. Our veterans should be our highest priority - they've offered to pay the highest price for us and we should treat them with infinitely more respect.

School rant: Obama also wants to "fix" NCLB... which any teacher will tell you is the stupidest law ever placed into effect... like communism - it worked great in theory... he also plans on "holding schools accountable for making sure [English as a second language] students complete school". Which is stupid - there's no reason to punish a school, and therefore the rest of its students just because some are dropping out - that STINKS for the kids who are doing what they should be. I've yet to hear Obama say a thing about students who accell being held to such low standards... he's just said that the standards aren't fair. McCain wants to foster an atmosphere in our public education sphere that will make students want to do their very best - as opposed to pass the test that's been written so the majority can pass. If the majority can pass - then you're just a part of the majority... and where's the work and pride in that?

I'm opposed to the entire subject of 'grading' entirely though, so my opinion on that last bit could be a bit skewed. ;)

At least for me the two main points are that McCain is a vet and understands where those who deserve our most respect are coming from, and that he has a much better plan for education - and if I ever have children I'm willing to bet I would trust laws that McCain put in place regarding their education more than any of Obama's.

JackieB - I'm glad that you've made your opinion, well-formed, well-thought out, as well. Everyone should research their opinions and be as decisive about them as you are. :)

[mtnmollie]

Good post- ALOK.

Government-run things just don't work like they should - the VA should have set Papa up an appointment for his chemo the first time he went there within the month - we shouldn't be sitting here, more than three or four months after we requested the first appointment, having just decided to pay for it ourselves because the VA isn't worth a single pile of horse manure - I don't understand why those who can easily afford to go elsewhere would ever bother with the VA (but Obama wants them all to go to the VA, so the lines are only going to get longer for those who can't go elsewhere). I think a lot of people are going to wind up hurting from this "great" new health plan of Obama's.

That's what I have been trying to say. :cowboy:

[JackieB]

Thanks for your kind words, ALOK. I appreciate the way you think through issues as well.

Well, I'm certainly not anymore interested in another goverment agency than anyone else. But for over 20 years now, many of us have been so eager to see universal access to affordable basic healthcare available for all U.S. citizens. Yet all the opposing forces have done, in my opinion, is whatever it takes to get the discussion tabled.

So now were are absolutely at least talking about this issue seriously. Perhaps a plan will emerge that allows private ensurers to help out. They can do so and make money if they wish. They just can't earn the amount of profit that they would like.

I will say that my relatives who are on Social Security and Medicare think that both of those systems work reasonably well. Their checks arrive every month and they get to see whatever doctors they wish. We can't afford those two programs indefinitely, but they seem to function acceptably.

But I won't dispute for an instant that it's better to keep things out of the government's hands if possible. It's just that every time the issue would come up, groups would scream "Socialized Medicine!" and get the discussion tabled before it even started. So, I'm glad that we are at least talking about it.

Our friends in Canada and England admit that their healthcare systems aren't the greatest at times, but are we better off having some 40 million or whatever Americans go totally without? They still go to the emergency room if injured or ill of course, and the costs that they can't pay get passed on to others one way or another. The hospitals and insurance companies sure aren't going to absorb the losses.

I agree that the VA is a very poor medical system. But that's not what Obama is proposing at all. We aren't going to have to head to a VA hospital or similar for our care.

NCLB is a poor piece of legislation, but it's inherited. I suppose we could just dismantle it and start over, but we need to do something about it. It appears to me that our current Administration proposed it with some admirable objectives, but didn't see it through.

Anyway, thanks for writing, ALOK.

[mtnmollie]

The birth certificate thing is just ridiculous. Someone could get all the way to election without even being a U.S. citizen?

I think your Lolo Trail and horse stories are fantastic, Mollie. I'll stick to those if you don't mind. :)

Does this mean you dont do what you say?

Is this a democratic thing?

[mtnmollie]

Oops, you caught me sneaking back in to read your political threads. :)

Is that what I caught you doing ?

Is that wrong?

Why am I confused? Silly me.

[Remali]

After reading the orginal post.....Not sure how we would lose our freedom if we voted for Obama...... I think you have been misinformed..... And what is wrong with being a Liberal? I am a liberal. We all need to accept that we are all different in our views of things.

[vicklynn]

Grunge...vucklynn, good one...love the name change...LMBO

ALOK. you said

I think McCain understands the needs of our amazing veterans a thousand times better than Obama could ever dream. Our veterans should be our highest priority - they've offered to pay the highest price for us and we should treat them with infinitely more respect.

Thank You!!

[Sundays Man]

Heh, I'm not the best at wording these things but, I'll try. :)

Actually, when everyone was originally falling in love with Obama, I did a lot of research about his health plan - and it's not really a terrible idea. Not enough to get me to vote for him, not a solve-all... and not something I agree with - but really not a terrible plan. I guess Georgia is one of those states with laws about preexisting conditions - my mother has always been able to get insurance, and at a decent rate - despite having cancer twice in her twenties (melanoma and a molar pregnancy).

Whenever, as a pre-teen, I cried to my mother "But that's not fair!" she always told me to go find whoever told me that life was fair and kick them in the shin - because they had lied to me. :rolleyes: Life's not fair - I'll probably have to deal with that someday because of both my cysts and my pre-melanoma. The majority of my (and my mother's) peers did not develop skin cancer in their 20s... but I (and my mother) did. Whether that's my fault, Mom's or God's doesn't matter - my peers will probably get insurance more easily and they'll probably have lower deductibles. Some of us get run over by tractors... with or without insurance. Medicare (government insurance) doesn't cover chemotherapy - which I'm betting a lot of their insured need, considering the age group... nor does it cover a helicoptor ride to Grady Hospital. ;) We complained about the unholy amount to one another (as anyone would) - but we called people, worked it out and paid what we did because life's not fair and we play the hand we're dealt.

Government-run things just don't work like they should - the VA should have set Papa up an appointment for his chemo the first time he went there within the month - we shouldn't be sitting here, more than three or four months after we requested the first appointment, having just decided to pay for it ourselves because the VA isn't worth a single pile of horse manure - I don't understand why those who can easily afford to go elsewhere would ever bother with the VA (but Obama wants them all to go to the VA, so the lines are only going to get longer for those who can't go elsewhere). I think a lot of people are going to wind up hurting from this "great" new health plan of Obama's.

I think McCain understands the needs of our amazing veterans a thousand times better than Obama could ever dream. Our veterans should be our highest priority - they've offered to pay the highest price for us and we should treat them with infinitely more respect.

School rant: Obama also wants to "fix" NCLB... which any teacher will tell you is the stupidest law ever placed into effect... like communism - it worked great in theory... he also plans on "holding schools accountable for making sure [English as a second language] students complete school". Which is stupid - there's no reason to punish a school, and therefore the rest of its students just because some are dropping out - that STINKS for the kids who are doing what they should be. I've yet to hear Obama say a thing about students who accell being held to such low standards... he's just said that the standards aren't fair. McCain wants to foster an atmosphere in our public education sphere that will make students want to do their very best - as opposed to pass the test that's been written so the majority can pass. If the majority can pass - then you're just a part of the majority... and where's the work and pride in that?

I'm opposed to the entire subject of 'grading' entirely though, so my opinion on that last bit could be a bit skewed. ;)

At least for me the two main points are that McCain is a vet and understands where those who deserve our most respect are coming from, and that he has a much better plan for education - and if I ever have children I'm willing to bet I would trust laws that McCain put in place regarding their education more than any of Obama's.

JackieB - I'm glad that you've made your opinion, well-formed, well-thought out, as well. Everyone should research their opinions and be as decisive about them as you are. :)

ALOK, you have revived my faith in those 21 years old and younger. I don't say that just because of who you vote for, but because you obviously have given this a LOT of thought and research. You have presented a very well thought out and organized opinion. I think the lessons we learn from living life itself are the most valuable lessons and you obviously have been paying attention. YOU GO GIRL!! And thanks for sharing your views.:)

[JackieB]

Does this mean you dont do what you say?



Ouch! Alright. I'll leave your posts on political threads alone until after the election. I probably was hasty in saying that I would stick to your horse stories, but I did say it, so I'll take my own time out.

[mtnmollie]

Ouch to me too. I dont much feel much like posting anymore- i think I will go hide in my cave. Yo told me I ought nto post in this political room...

I shoud of listened.

[JackieB]

No, don't go! I'll feel bad. You were kidding? I thought maybe you really wanted me to leave that time. I did say I would. But if you're joking, I'll continue. I just couldn't quite tell for sure and wanted to honor my word if you were serious.

That's one thing about these messages. They can't always convey a sense of humor.

[Horserider]

I've got some...

Vote for Obama if...

You want NAIS to become reality.

You want there to be an NAIS someday for people.

You want to have less freedom.

You want another depression.

You want this country to be ran into the ground.

[mtnmollie]

No, don't go! I'll feel bad. You were kidding? I thought maybe you really wanted me to leave that time. I did say I would. But if you're joking, I'll continue. I just couldn't quite tell for sure and wanted to honor my word if you were serious.

That's one thing about these messages. They can't always convey a sense of humor.

I dont recall asking you to leave. I am always dead serious- but people think I am joking.

My heart hurt after engageing in the battle yesterday- so I think I wil stay our of the battle. It is a griveous thing to see such a great nation dieing of cancer.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. This is one of the few places where I have been able to debate politics with people who totally disagree with me, but who treat me with respect, nonetheless.

Thanks for reading my response. You said this in another thread.

I noticed before I engaged this special honer we have here for one another.
It is a rare treasure.

I did' nt sign up at Baywind to fight battles but to find friends, and have fun. :cowboy:

Happy Trails-

[mtnmollie]

I've got some...

Vote for Obama if...

You want NAIS to become reality.

You want there to be an NAIS someday for people.

You want to have less freedom.

You want another depression.

You want this country to be ran into the ground.

Great post horserider.

And now I 'm gunna go sew my mouth shut. :cowboy:

[natisha]

I work at a VA hospital & while they strive to do their very best they can't get & retain good experienced doctors so the patients get medical students going through their various rotations under supervision.
So the doctor who wants to be a plastic surgeon , for example, has to remove your gall bladder-opps, that was your pancreas- so sorry, you're gonna die
or the poor guy who doesn't want to have a colonoscopy done but does because he should- opps-perforated your bowel & now you have a colostomy while your bowel resection heals (maybe)
or the simple hernia repair where a blood vessel to the legs is cut-opps, first we'll try to save your legs , then we'll go back & try that hernia again
I could go on & on but my point is that government run health care sucks. What good doctor wants to work there when the private sector pays much better? If we get government backed health care they will set the prices. Yes, money shouldn't matter but it does. Ask Canada
True story- While my BF was on a fishing trip to Canada he saw a man in his 50's sitting on a dock & asked him how the fishing was. The man told him he was not allowed to fish or do anything until he could get in for a cardiac catherization for his ongoing chest pain- the appointment was months away. He said he could not afford to go the the US to have it done immediately. How sad.
Does anyone want that?

[Sundays Man]

Great post horserider.

And now I 'm gunna go sew my mouth shut. :cowboy:

But Mollie, wouldn't that hurt!? Don't do that. That's like saying, "I'll show them...I'll hurt me!!! You have things to say that we may need to hear. I vote you keep doing what you've been doing and thanks for it.:)

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Mollie. I very much enjoy reading all of post....in all of the threads. I think sometimes when we are debating ..whatever...it can , at times, get a little hot and heavy. But, I think for the most part everyone here at Baywind has been able to be respectful to each other. You and JackieB even, as far as I can tell, made up!!!

So don't stop posting....We all have the right to post our opinions here and we are a better forum for it!!!!



Remali...there is nothing wrong with you being liberal.....:)Can you imagine if we all thought and acted the same way? How boring.

[JackieB]

You and JackieB even, as far as I can tell, made up!!!

Yes, absolutely. We actually never even had a disagreement (the kind where feelings get hurt, anyway) going in the first place. It was just one of those common situations where written words in a setting like this don't always have the ability to convey humor. It's all good and I'm really grateful that we have a community here that is so diverse, yet respectful of one another.

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Yes, absolutely. We actually never even had a disagreement (the kind where feelings get hurt, anyway) going in the first place. It was just one of those common situations where written words in a setting like this don't always have the ability to convey humor. It's all good and I'm really grateful that we have a community here that is so diverse, yet respectful of one another.

Me too JB!!!!

[JackieB]

My heart hurt after engageing in the battle yesterday- so I think I wil stay our of the battle. It is a griveous thing to see such a great nation dieing of cancer.

I can certainly understand your worry. I've read comments of great concern by Sundays Man and either rocknK and Tiz (...the beginning of the end...). But may I also humbly suggest that if this election goes opposite to how you so strongly wish that you might be pleasantly surprised? And even if you aren't pleased at all, that the the Founding Fathers were so brilliant in placing checks and balances in our system that the ability of any one person or even an entire political party and ideology to destroy a country as great as the U.S. is vastly overstated?

For the last several years, I have heard some on the Democrat side of the political spectrum suggest that our current Administration is utterly destroying the country. And while I feel that this Administration isn't going to be well-regarded when history reveals an informed judgment 40-50 years from now, I never thought that the U.S. would be ruined if for no other reason than I don't think it's possible to do so in one eight year stretch.

So please don't bow out of the argument unless the subject is just too upsetting for you. If it really makes your heart hurt, then perhaps I would because there is no reason to upset yourself even more. But if you sort of enjoy the spirited conversation like many of us do, then I hope you will continue to engage in it.

[lovesfortune]

I love JackieB. :) You always say everything best!

[Arrow]

Oooooooo...our very first "please stay" bit with a forum member! Gosh, Baywind Farm is a REAL forum now!

[rocknK]

JB, What sort of checks & balance will we have if Obama appoints a few Supremes & has a Super Majority in the House & Senate. I call that a stacked deck. God help the Republic.

[Arrow]

I'm a solid Democrat all the way, but I don't think a filibuster-proof Senate is a good idea. Compromise is needed. I'll be very happy, though, to have Obama rather than McCain appointing Supreme Court justices.

[JackieB]

I work at a VA hospital & while they strive to do their very best they can't get & retain good experienced doctors so the patients get medical students going through their various rotations under supervision.....
Does anyone want that?

No, absolutely not. But why does anyone think that what is being proposed is even close to this type of system? It's not. Have you actually read it?

You may here if you wish - http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

The only thing I can come up with in my mind when I hear all of the complaints about this proposed new healthcare plan for currently uninsured Americans is either those who are opposed to it haven't read the plan, or they feel that the description of it is actually a lie.

[mtnmollie]

And now I'm gunna go sew my mouth shut.


But Mollie, wouldn't that hurt!? )

Not if you drink enough Black Velvet smooth Canadian whisky first.

gliderider told me-
Mollie..You really should put them (horse stories) all in a book.

My forum friend Jane Savoie told me to play in rooms full of sunlight and postive thoughts.

So when I make too much money with my horse stories-
I then I can move to that one country on the whole planet that is a safe place.

Not sure where that's gunna be though.

I thought this nation was the last stronghold.


:popcorn:


I dont have anything more to say in the political room anyway.
Big O is a commy and a muslum.

I dont need to say that over and over and over again. :rolleyes:

Happy trails forum friends,
and may you all ride a good horse.

[JackieB]

JB, What sort of checks & balance will we have if Obama appoints a few Supremes & has a Super Majority in the House & Senate. I call that a stacked deck. God help the Republic.

I don't want a filibuster-proof majority, either. I'm not one who is hopeful that this will occur. It's important that we be forced to listen to our political adversaries because they hold some of the authority we need.

History has shown that Supreme Court Justices do not always end up deciding cases the way that one would expect based on their appointment. And some presidents have been enlightened enough to choose justices that think somewhat differently than them. But really, it's just the luck of the draw in determining which president gets to appoint justices.

[Arrow]

I dont have anything more to say in the political room anyway.
Big O is a commy and a muslum.

I dont need to say that over and over and over again.

Happy trails forum friends,
and may you all ride a good horse.


Mmmmm hmmmm...right...awaiting your next post....:whistle:

[rocknK]

Mollie,I'd reccomend Crown Royal!;) Never quit telling people what they need to know instead of what they want to hear! Got that girlfriend??:cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Oooooooo...our very first "please stay" bit with a forum member! Gosh, Baywind Farm is a REAL forum now!

When did I say I wuz leavin?

I just said I don't need to talk in the political room any more because I spent all my money on the dum slot machine in this joint.

[JackieB]

Happy trails forum friends,
and may you all ride a good horse.

But you're not leaving the forum, are you?! That would be terrible because we love your stories and poetry. If you have to leave the political discussion I understand, but please don't leave us without the great stories. :eek:

[JackieB]

When did I say I wuz leavin?

I just said I don't need to talk in the political room any more because I spent all my money on the dum slot machine in this joint.

Whew! That was scary there for a moment.

[Arrow]

Oh, I think the "Obama is a commie and a Muslim" was scarier.

[mtnmollie]

no- I just said I'm not postin in the political room- and Arrow said that will be the day-

But you told me to stay out of this room jackie B - remember?

edit- ok everybody got it. good. Shut up mollie...

[JackieB]

I love JackieB. :) You always say everything best!

That's so kind of you, lovesfortune. I'm humbled and honored that you think highly of me. Thank you so much.

[JackieB]

But you told me to stay out of this room jackie B - remember?



Well I am sort of excited to read new installments in the great Lolo Trail, horse-training, and bigfoot stories! :)

[rocknK]

Mollie, Since when is speaking the truth in your own unique manner a crime?? Stay & contribute your views, it's our loss if you don't.:cowboy:

[Sundays Man]

no- I just said I'm not postin in the political room- and Arrow said that will be the day-

But you told me to stay out of this room jackie B - remember?

edit- ok everybody got it. good. Shut up mollie...

MtnMollie, don't you make me have to come out there!!! You get right back to your computer this minute and post until you are sick of it!!! I mean it, I've got my belt in my hand young lady!!!!!http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/scared/scared0016.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

[alittleoffkey]

Awe, thanks for the high compliment Sundays Man. I've basically given up on the vast majority of my peers too, unfortunately ;). I always try to be very well informed before I make a definite decision about much of anything.

Far too many of my peers want Obama to be president either because 'black' or because he's 'young'. :doh: Find a good reason to vote or do us all a favor and don't bother voting at all. :nono: For some reason those who are voting for Obama simply on the basis of his skin color take serious offense when I tell them, "That's like me saying I'm voting for McCain because he's white!" (which I'm not, by the way. That would just be stupid).

And that's all I should probably say about that. ;)

[Arrow]

Suggesting that folks are voting for Obama just because he's black is just as offensive as suggesting that you aren't voting for Obama because he's black. If you really want to leave race out of it...then do.

[alittleoffkey]

Sorry Arrow, I didn't mean to offend anyone who is voting based on researching the candidates' plans and forming their own solid opinion. :)

[Arrow]

No worries.:) My sister has very solid reasons for voting for McCain.

[Tiz]

Obama says he thinks that appointing Supreme Court justices with "empathy" is number one priority. That's great. Now we can let all the House of Representatives, and their staff, and all the Senators. and their staff, go. Lots of wage money to be saved there, when the Supreme Court get empathetic, instead of interpreting the law.

[JackieB]

Obama says he thinks that appointing Supreme Court justices with "empathy" is number one priority.

Did he say whether or not they also need a law degree? Or just the empathy part? :)

[Arrow]

Hmmm...I thought the problem with pro-choice folks was lack of empathy with embryos...shouldn't some empathy be a good thing?

[Sundays Man]

Hmmm...I thought the problem with pro-choice folks was lack of empathy with embryos...shouldn't some empathy be a good thing?

It's one of those enigma things.

[GrungeEquestrian]

Grunge...vucklynn, good one...love the name change...LMBO
haha I just saw that and was like "crap!" well I am the typo queen...at least the u is right next to the i so I am not THAT terrible. lol

[natisha]

Did he say whether or not they also need a law degree? Or just the empathy part? :) Hey JackieB- that was funny!