Hoof shoers/specialists look here

[Country Girl 43]

I would like your opinion on this.

Dreamer did NOT make the CEVA study. :( Too much is going on in her hooves and the study treatment would not have addressed all the things going on.

Based on the MRI she had done she has these things.

Flexor Cortex erosion
Adhesion of the tendon to the navicular bone
Some fragmentation of the navicular bone
Inflamation and the tendon is enlarged.

The left front is worse than the Right front. Vet said this has been going on for quite some time. His suggestions:

1) get shoes on the fronts
2) Stall rest for awhile (so much for stopping her cribbing :( )
3) Once the swelling goes down we could TRY Versa injections.
4) Last resort of doing a neurectomy.(sp)..which would help for awhile, but later could cause her to do more damage.

So for the professionals.....what is your opinion?

I am so sick over all this! She was supposed to be the horse that my kids were going to move UP to from Ladybird. Now, we just don't know. The vet has said that over time she will probably get worse and won't be able to be ridden. She could still be a brood mare, but I don't want babies....

I don't know what we are going to do at this point. I've already prepared the kids that if it's too bad, we may have to sell her. She has some time, but.....right now it looks like she is only bound to be a pasture pet or brood mare. Eventually riding will be out of the question if those tendons don't heal. I'm not holding my breath.

Once I have everything in hand....reports, exrays, MRI I will be contacting the University in Tucson. They do lots of studies on problem horses...maybe they will find something to help, but for now.....we have alot of thinking to do. :cry:

[WashingtonBay]

Oh - I am so sorry she didn't make the study! That would have been so good.

Why did this happen? Is it her former or current job, or her shoeing, or the way she's made? Do we know?

I guess I'd want to answer that question before considering her as a brood mare.

[vicklynn]

I just thought back to when you were looking at her. Wasnt she lame then?
Dang, I wish you knew then what you know now.
Im so sorry hon. I know she was such a special purchase for you, for the kids.
((HUGS))

[Country Girl 43]

Hey WB....We have only owned her since June. She is 8 yrs old. I pretty much rescued her form a neglectful owner. She has never had shoes on since I have owned her and she was barefoot when I bought her. But her hooves were over grown and soft. We have been working to get them better.

Her current job is just easy riding. I have taken her on some short trail rides (1 hour long) and the kids and I have ridden her in the arena, but nothing hard. She has been to 3 gymkhanas, but only walk/trotted through the patterns.

Vet said the problems have been there for awhile, and the person I bought her from probably had her drugged up when I went to see her 2 other times before taking her home. I figured she was a bit ouchy the first time I saw her because of her neglectful care. Stalls were full if crap and urine, the horses were not being fed on a regular basis, she was always standing in crap and wet ground. She was 200 lbs underweight when I brought her home.

Her previous owner I bought her from used her for trail riding and as a broodmare. The owner prior to her had started Dreamer on cattle and barrel events.

[Country Girl 43]

Yeah Vick the very first time I saw her she was off. But the next 2 times I went back she was fine. No gimpiness. Yep, this is total heartbreaking. I have to wait a few days or maybe more to decide what we are going to do. I will call down to Tucson once I have all the films and reports.

[lovesfortune]

Wow, it really sucks when people can't be honest and feel the need to drug the horse. I'm sorry this all happened to you and the kids. If she was closer I would say she could come here and be a pasture pet, but AZ and WI are so far away! I hope that you find some answers from the experts and that maybe there is something out there that can be done.

[Gypsy Rose]

I feel so bad for you! I hope you'll be able to find the solution that will be best for Dreamer.

[SedonaThunder]

Again, I am very sorry CG... believe me, I know your pain - "welcome to my world". At least I brought Timber home knowing what I was up against - I am very sorry that you were mislead and are now faced with something so hard... and your children are involved too, breaks my heart.:(:cry:

[PaintedLady]

The left front is worse than the Right front. Vet said this has been going on for quite some time. His suggestions:

1) get shoes on the fronts
:cry:
Wait.....why would this be so bad?? I mean....is this *the* fix? The solution?? Or would this just 'put off' the inevitable?
I just feel like...every 6 to 8 weeks, another 'professional' sees The Lady, and I respect (and gain from) his opinion...
Besides, without the shoes, she's 'ouchy' too....(I know it's a different kind of ouchy, but if this is the solution, it could be so.....easy...)

[Country Girl 43]

Hey Painted....the shoes will help some...but only for the ouchiness. Not for the problems. It's the tendons that are the BIG issue and the MAIN reason she did not make the study. The fact that the tendons have adhered to the navicular bone is the BIG issue. Plus the fragmentation of the navicular bone.

I am going to put the shoes on her. That was my next call today. But she also has to stay stalled up for awhile, and hopefully the swelling of the tendons will go down.

The Versa steroids shots are a good start, but he is not sure it will help for as long as they should and the cost is $650 each time they do it. I can do the first round and see what happens. I have to have these injections in my back, so I know the proceedure. Pretty in depth. It does help my back, so depending on what we decide after the "haze" has cleared, we may have that done.

But long term.....eventually she won't be able to be ridden.

[vicklynn]

But long term.....eventually she won't be able to be ridden.

Oh hon, I am very sorry about this. Poor girl, poor you, poor kids.
((HUGS))

[Toodlestoo]

Oh man, I am so sorry to hear this. Kids are tough! They'll get through it, especially knowing all the care you are giving her now to help her. I know you are so disappointed right now but take a deep breath, weigh the pros and cons, and hopefully, the best decision will be made for you and Dreamer.:cry:

[PaintedLady]

Hey Painted....the shoes will help some...but only for the ouchiness. Not for the problems. It's the tendons that are the BIG issue and the MAIN reason she did not make the study. The fact that the tendons have adhered to the navicular bone is the BIG issue. Plus the fragmentation of the navicular bone.

I am going to put the shoes on her. That was my next call today. But she also has to stay stalled up for awhile, and hopefully the swelling of the tendons will go down.

The Versa steroids shots are a good start, but he is not sure it will help for as long as they should and the cost is $650 each time they do it. I can do the first round and see what happens. I have to have these injections in my back, so I know the proceedure. Pretty in depth. It does help my back, so depending on what we decide after the "haze" has cleared, we may have that done.

But long term.....eventually she won't be able to be ridden.
OK....gotcha. Did they 'predict' how long 'longterm' is? I mean...heck...if it's years......
I'd be one to avoid the shots....but...that's me.

[HoustonFarrier]

These Navicular and "navicular syndrome" horses are definatly no easy task to manage. You really have a "standard" protocol that generally works for them....sometimes. Some cases you really have to think outside the box, and come up with differing solitions. Wedging, padding,articulation restriction,..combinations of all of them. Sometimes even taking them out of shoes and just trimming and turnout in sand makes them comfortable.....as my vet is so fond of saying..."....horses don't read the medical journals....". Generally, I'll shoe them in a wide web shoe (they have "navicular shoes" out there, I've never used them) and use a pour in pad (Vettec instant pad material). Prior to nailing, I might tape a wedge pad and shoe on to see how they like being wedged(Especially if they have real low/crushed heels). Really roll the toe of the shoe...make it easy to breakover. I've also used wedged egg-bar shoes...some horses like those...others go DFL with them. Sometimes it takes 3 or 4 shoeings to find out what the horse likes. I've even gone the EDSS route with some. The easily adjustable external rails are nice.

Steve

[Country Girl 43]

Thanks so much for the info Steve. I appreciate it. I am waiting to hear back from my shoer. He is really good. I have her first set of exrays but hoping to have the MRI films for my shoer so he knows which direction to go. :(

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Sorry about the study CC. I know there will be some hard decisions you will have to make. I just hate to hear this. I am sorry you have to go thru this!

[Country Girl 43]

Well I talked with my shoer today. I also had the vet e-mail me the MRI films. My shoer is going to look at the films and see which shoes would be the best. He has dealt with this many times. Like HoustonFarrier said, sometimes things work. So we have a 50/50 chance of her being a ridable horse. The big question is still..."for how long?"

We will try the shoes and if she is comfortable and we can get the swelling down off her tendons, she might be able to be ridden....but I am not getting my hopes up. We will just wait to see what happens.

[westmanfarrier]

Agree exactly what Steve said. This is a mechanical problem, probably caused by the tendon strain from leverage from the prior neglect. You probably need a mechanical solution, at least at first. You need to reduce the stress the tendon is putting on the navicular bone. This is achieved by raising the angle of the hoof. You need to do this with a wedge and a properly balanced hoof. Do not just leave extra heel on the hoof, this would actually exaserbate the problem and you will end up with contracted heels. You also want to keep the rear portion of the hoof 'engaged.' This is what the hoof packing will do for you. The packing will also help in support and weight distribution. Breakover is very important, as this will do the most to reduce the stress from the pull of the deep digital flexor tendon.

Navicular is very hard to manage. A trim/shoe package will seem to work beatifully for about 6 months then the horse will go lame. I will change the package a bit and will look like the hero again, for like another 6 months...and so on.

If you can, install a standing area with pea gravel for your guy. With somewhat deep (8-12 inches) pea gravel your horse can 'self correct' and can dig his heels, toe, or whatever into the medium and stand comfortably.

Hope it helps some.

[Ryderd65]

So sorry about the test results CG.
Your kids might not be riding Dreamer in Gymkhana, but you're teaching them a powerful lesson about what it means to truly love and care for an animal.

Maybe that's what the man upstairs wants them to learn right now.

((((((((Hugs to All))))))))

[miatapony]

hey i was just wondering what vet you had do this exam ?

[pandorasmom]

Sorry to hear about Dreamer not making the study, I can't suggest anything to you, but wanted to let you know I was hoping and praying all goes well from here too.

I don't know if it would help, but I read on another forum to get some dawn soap and mix with water and put on the wood of a cribbing horse. I have did this with Pandora and as long as she's in her stall where the soap was put on the wood, she doesn't crib. Now if I stick her in our wooden corral, she will crib because I don't know if there's enough soap in the world to cover it. LOL But just wanted to suggest that incase.
She hasn't ingested any of it or anything, but everytime she'd go to the wood, she'd smell of it and back off.

Best of luck with you and Dreamer!

[Country Girl 43]

Thanks Pandorasmom for the bit on the cribbing, however we have all metal poles. I did try the ivory soap on some of the poles, but every once in awhile she will go for the feeder. It's usually only if she is stalled up. She was a terrible cribber when we first got her, but I have gotten her to almost quit.