Foundering?

[Me'N'Chic]

Can someone tell me a little about foundering and it's affect it has on the horse?

I was talking to the girl who raised CHIC and she said she may possibly be willing to sell CHIC's mother who is a 16 year old paint. She apparently foundered 6 years ago but she said she is sound as a trail horse--just doesn't care to trot or canter much. Well, she isn't asking much and if she is as sweet as CHIC I thought she could be a nice "hubby-horse"; as he doesn't want to go fast. She said said they are applying some kind of application that she has to wear for about 16 weeks and she is about half-way done and it has been working great--let me see if I can post a pic:
http://us.mc542.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showMessage?fid=Inbox&sort=date&order=down&startMid=0&.rand=1058826559&da=0&midIndex=14&prevMid=1_204770_APgnvs4AALARSQDBlQb4ikmFG1o&nextMid=1_205512_APQnvs4AAEFBSQDLfQCeyGfc0b0&m=1_218628_APgnvs4AAHpkSQFvmgCotzG%2BJ%2Fc,1_21582 5_APgnvs4AAAsCSQFE9w5njhr%2BtLA,1_212846_APMnvs4AA VM3SQES1Al%2FIE8p3FM,1_208603_APYnvs4AAN8sSQDhKAW9 vQaQlYk,1_204770_APgnvs4AALARSQDBlQb4ikmFG1o,1_201 922_APknvs4AATTtSQC%2FEwFgt195ccU,1_205512_APQnvs4 AAEFBSQDLfQCeyGfc0b0,1_201327_APUnvs4AANmZSQC9Ag3I wlds7HI,1_202469_APQnvs4AARxLSQDAMg8OsW648Nk,1_197 476_APgnvs4AAIR9SQCjlALSayLCZc4,1_194282_APYnvs4AA QceSQCY2gV4oS3LAxw,&vs=1&mid=1_201922_APknvs4AATTtSQC%2FEwFgt195ccU&pid=2&fn=0906081346a.jpg
But I know nothing about this--opinions??

[WashingtonBay]

I couldn't see the pictures. Bummer!

Horses can recover from founder and be sound but they will always need special and careful feeding because they will always be prone to doing it again. They have to really be limited on grass, if at all, and fed a very low sugar feeds. Basically, you have to feed them as if they are insulin resistant.

It's doable, but you'd want to become educated on it and see if it fits with your style. The people who have her now, assuming she hasn't relapsed in 6 years, might be very good sources of information on what works for her. Her vet also, if there is a vet who has treated her all along, and her farrier. All those people will have their own insights, in addition to what you might learn here. :)

[Remali]

WB summed it up very well. I just wanted to add that my Arabian mare, Kara, foundered back in 1999. She had some rotation of her coffin bone (I had her x-rayed, and I would recommend doing that if you are unsure of how bad the mare foundered. Kara had 7 degrees on one hoof, and 9 on the other....if I am not mistaken 10 degrees or more is considered pretty bad). I got my farrier on it ASAP, and fortunately Kara recovered really well, I was able to ride her after awhile without any issues, and other than a few times of a little bit of tenderness, she never had any more problems after that. But I always had to watch her weight and her feed (grass hay only, no lush pasture at all, and very little grain if any at all).

[westmanfarrier]

Depends on the founder, how bad it was/is. I would get the farrier and vet's opinion who did the workup if the rotation is more than a few degrees you may want to be very cautious.

[westmanfarrier]

I have gone to week long symposiums on Laminitis/Founder, so it is hard to give info in a few sentences.

What do you want to know?

[painthorse72]

my daughters morgan/qh mare founderd as a 2yr old and then again the start of summer shes 14yr now. We got her in July after the fact. The previous owners kept her on lush grass even though she had foundered and luckily for us we live in central oregon so were able to keep her on about 4 acres of dry lot. Of course finding the hay is harder as they dont make much of it here but I was able to get 4 tons at the end of summer. My daughter is a walk trot stand around kind of gal so Mokie works well for her. Our farrier comes out every 8 weeks and says she looks great.

[gaited07]

There is some really good advice here.
I would recomend getting current pics of her feet to determine the amount of rotation/damage.
Also wanted to add the fact that a heavier rider on a foundered horse puts more strain on the feet and could put the horse into another founder. And the length of trails and terrain traveled.
Not in all cases but it can happen that they can have reoccurring founder. This happened to mine.
Again, speak to a vet on this one (don't skimp on the pics or vet check on a known lame horse) A good qualified vet will give you the right answers for this horse and your needs.

When a horse is not wanting to go into a trot or canter might mean that she is still ouchy on her feet. (coffin bone rotated towards the sole of the hoof)

[westmanfarrier]

I do believe by pics gaited07 means lateral radiographs (xray) of the distal phalanx (coffin bone), which is a very good idea. They may already have some from the original foundering episode, but I believe a current set would be worth the $85 or so it would cost you.

[Me'N'Chic]

Thank you so much for all the info--I guess, even though I have heard the term "foundering" , I am not real sure what it even is, how it happens, ect...

[gaited07]

A horse can founder over anything. There are many things out there that can make a horse founder. Feed, mechanical, heat, stress and ??? the list goes on.
Here is description of laminitis (founder)
Google founder and you will find more explanation.


Laminitis is a metobolic and vascular disease that involves the inner sensitive sructures of the feet. The disease begins when bacterial endotoxins and lactic acid are released into the bloodstream, a condition called endotoxemia. Conditions that trigger the release of endotoxins are discussed below.
Endotoxins and lactic acid dilate the large digital arteries to the feet, increasing blood flow while at the same time causing intense constriction of the small capillary vessels that nourish the laminae. The result is a large volume of bllod going down to the feet but being shunted around thelaminae. Thus deprived of blood and oxygen, the laminae swell. Because of the hoof is rigid, the swelling compresses the laminae and causes further tissue compromise. Unless the situation is not relieved, the sensitive inner structures of the feet will die.
Laminitis occurs most often in the two front feet but may occur in all four feet. Founder occurs in both an acute and "CHRONIC" form.

[cloedoll]

When I first got Cloe, I had the farrier out to remove her shoes (worst shoeing job ever) and the vet out for vaccinations and an overall check. I was dumb, I bought her site unseen...she was literally dropped off. I wanted that horse bad, which is a terrible reason to buy a horse the way I did! Don't do it! Lol. Anyways, the farrier and vet both agreed she must have foundered with her previous owners (they only owned her for four months, before that an Amish family owned her) because she had founder rings on her hooves? Something like that. Anyways, she has yet to founder in my care and is capable of w/t/c/g/jumping/etc. Just wanted to share, lol.

WBay summed it up pretty good, in my opinion and I don't know what else to add to it. =P

[cowgirlup@idaho]

If she foundered 6 yrs ago and they are still treating it (16 wk trtment that is currently in progress?) it is ongoing or she had another episode. Founder/Laminitis can be very painful for the horse and costly for you. Strict diet and consisten scheduled farrier care are necessary. Educate yourself, proceed with caution and you've gotten some great advice from the others. Good luck.

[Me'N'Chic]

Thanks alot everyone--I learned alot and received some great advice. If we get her--I'll let you know!

[Remali]

Also wanted to add....some cases of founder can get extremely serious....don't want to scare you, but some horses have to be put down due to founder if it gets bad enough and the coffin bone sinks too far. That is why it is a very good idea to get x-rays on all hooves involved.

[Piper522]

Thank you for explaining what "founder" meant. I had NO idea!

[westmanfarrier]

Laminitis is the condition which causes founder in most cases. Founder is the mechanical changes within the hoof capsule. With founder, the hoof wall is 'torn' from the bone at the laminae (white line). This usually happens at the toe because of the tremendous forces from the weight of the horse pressing down at the toe and the great pull from the deep digital flexor tendon at the heel. A 'sinker' can also happen where a catastrophic breakdown of the laminae happens at the sides as well as the toe. In this case the whole bone actually slides down within the hoof capsule. I'll post some pics.