Does he look too thin?

[Dakota Sunrise]

Well I haven't posted Dakota pics in a while, but I'm a little concerned about his weight so I took a bunch of pictures of him the other night to show you guys. He was just dewormed on August 18th, just fyi. His diet is the same as it has been for the last 3-4 months. He's healthy and happy and his coat is shiny, and he's his usual charming, loveable self.:D I ride him about 3 times a week- trail riding, unless we're just fooling around in the arena which is rare. And he's 20 years old, a QH/Saddlebred, for anyone who doesn't know.
But does he look too thin?

I swear, if you look at his left side he looks fine, like he's at an ok weight. But if you look at his right side and he's standing a certain way or the sun is hitting him a certain way he looks so skinny and you can see his ribs.:( It's so weird. You can really see his ribs in some of these pictures, but it must be the sun or the way he's standing because he's not that ribby all the time. I'd be freaking out if he was.

But yeah, he's too thin isn't he?:( (oh, just fyi- he always has a bony back & high withers, and his hips and butt stay scrawny no matter how much food he gets or how much I ride him. I guess it's just the way he's built. He has muscles other places, but he never gains up top.:rolleyes:)


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/kotapics001.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/kotapics005.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/kotapics007.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/kotapics008.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/kotapics011.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/kotapics009.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/kotapics012.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/kotapics013.jpg

ETA: These pics are from this morning. I can't get over how thin he looks in a few of the above pictures.:( I swear his ribs are not that visible. Sometimes I can't see them all, and other times I can see the outline of his ribs if he stands a certain way. He is too thin, but those pictures really dramatized it and I honestly do not think he looks that skinny all the time. I would so be freaking out if he did. I don't know if it was the angle of the picture, the bright sun, or just the way he was standing but this morning I was looking at him and I did not see his ribs at all unless he stood a certain way, and then it was only the outline of his ribs and not nearly as prominent as in some of those pics.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/hay007.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/hay008.jpg

Big booty, little booty.:rolleyes:
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/dakota_92_2007/hay013.jpg

[gaited07]

I would say he is a little under weight. Maybe some of the feed specialists can help you with a balanced diet for him.
He's still a very pretty boy though:)

[JackieB]

I would say that he's a bit too thin, but don't be hard on yourself. That kind of thing can sneak up on a person if he/she sees the horse every day. Buster came out of the winter looking like Kota does right now. Kota is getting a little older now and it may be harder for him to keep weight on.

I'm sure you'll get lots of great advice from the nutrition experts on the forum.

[Jump The Moon]

Buster came out of the winter looking like Kota does right now.

Billy comes out of winter worse than that :cry: He just doesn't winter all that well, he's never skinny skinny (like, you don't see his ribs) but you can see he's not the weight he needs to be. :( This year he's entering the winter slightly chubby and he generally does well til Jan-Feb time when it all drops off him, so when we get to them I'm gonna give him extra hay :) The sugarbeet and molasses helped alot last year too. :)

I'd say he looks a little thin, nothing too drastic though. What's his diet? How is your grazing at the moment? I'll let all the feed experts on here give you advice on his mix / whatever if he has any but maybe you could up his hay a little?

[3equines]

Questions:
1) do you keep him at home?
2) What do you feed him (grass, hay, supplements, grain, etc), how often?
3) if he isn't kept at home, who is feeding him?
4) How old is Dakota?
5) Have his teeth been floated in the past 18 months?

He looks healthy, and well-muscled, definately has 'lean' conformation but needs to gain about 75 to 100 pounds, maybe even a tad more to make it htrough winter comfortably.

Sometimes a healthy horse will 'go lean' if their teeth are not hitting evenly, this makes it hard to grind their hay up and it doesn't get completely digested. $200 spent to have the vet float his teeth can save $1000's of dollars on feed down the road.

A pelleted complete feed given in addition to a full hay ration is a good way to put extra weight on a healthy horse. I consider Dakota to be healthy. I would supplement him at 1% of his body weight (10 pounds a day for a 1000 pound horse split up into two feedings) then gradually cut it down to a maintenance ration of 2-5 pounds a day through the winter. If this is too expensive, try soaking beet pulp and adding alfalfa pellets, at about 2 pounds (before soaking the pellets) beet pulp and 5 pounds alfalfa pellets (don't have to soak these) split over two feedings, with a pound or so of grain mixed in. I have had success this way, using an inexpensive COB w/molasses grain mix. You can cut this back by 1/2's to maintain weight. The beet pulp is the messier way to go, and not a big hit with barn operators in a boarding situation.

If Dakota is a hard keeper in the winter, keep him blanketed once he grows his winter hair (not before, or it won't grow in). Start by blanketing him at night in the fall, then keep him in a nice turnout blanket through the cold, dark days of winter. This will conserve energy that would otherwise be spent keeping warm.

[Dakota Sunrise]

1) do you keep him at home? yes


2) What do you feed him (grass, hay, supplements, grain, etc), how often?: He gets 3/4 of a coffee can of grain (a 12% high oil feed) mixed with 1/2 coffee can of beat pulp (fed soaked, measured dry) at night. He also gets BL Pellet joint supplement, and sometimes MSM or Yucca (I switch back and forth, he does well on all three.) He is on pasture 24/7 and isn't getting hay right now because I have so much pasture that they really don't need anything more than the grass out there, but I think I'll start throwing him a few flakes anyway. Unfortunately Beauty will eat it too and she's fat even though she gets next to no grain at all, but she is a very easy keeper. He is always lean no matter what I do. He's a hardkeeper.


4) How old is Dakota? 20 years old.. although I don't know his exact birthday so he could be closer to 21. But according to his pretend birthday, he turned 20 May 26th.

5) Have his teeth been floated in the past 18 months? yes.

I do blanket him in the late fall (if it's chilly) and winter. He came through last winter really well, so I really want to get some weight back on him so he can do that well again.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Now that I know he is too thin for sure and I'm not the only one who thinks so (I tend to get a little paranoid when it comes to my horses:innocent:), I think I figured out what I'm going to do.
I'm going to up his beetpulp ration and start giving the horses about 3 or 4 flakes of hay a day (remember they are on pasture 24/7). Beauty needs it like she needs a hole in her head, but they live in the same pasture with the same run in shelter all the time so she'll be eating it too, no way around it really. I'll see if that helps and if not I'll work from there.

[Toodlestoo]

I thought he looked a little thin too but my horses are all so chunky, any other horse looks thin next to them! He's lucky to have such a good mom! Hopefully, he'll gain some weight before it gets cold here. Sounds like you're on top of everything and have a plan in progress. Good luck. He certainly looks nice and shiny.:)

[Gypsy Rose]

What kind of sweet feed specifically is Dakota getting? How much does your 3/4 full coffee can weigh? You want to make sure that he's getting the right amount of vitamins and minerals, as well as amino acids. This becomes even more important as a horse gets older. Proper nutrition can go a long way towards weight gain. If the diet's unbalanced, you're not going to get the most out of your feeding plan.

[Dakota Sunrise]

I think a full coffee can weighs around 2 lbs? For some reason that number is sticking in my head because I know I weighed it a long time ago. But I don't have a scale to do it again.:doh: So he's getting about 1.5 or 1.75 lbs. of grain. It's a good feed. He's done really well on this grain and beet pulp combo. He was really skinny when I first bought him back in 2006 and this was the only thing I found that helped him gain and maintain weight (I tried lots of different feeds before finding this one that actually works). I think he just needs a little more beetpulp and hay. Maybe there isn't quite as much grass out there as I think or maybe it just doesn't have all the nutrients he needs. This hapens with him now and then, his weight fluctuating I mean. I usually just up his beet pulp ration a little or toss out a few more flakes of hay and that solves the problem. He's just a really hard keeper.:doh:

His grain is called 12% High Oil Horse Feed. (I buy it at the local feed store, they mix it themselves.) I'm reading the little tag that comes on the bag and it says "A protein, fat, vitamin, and mineral supplement for all classes of horses". It lists all the ingredients and %'s and stuff too, but if I typed all that out I would be here all day.

[WashingtonBay]

Yeah - I'd bump him up and see if you can round out some of the angles and points in his rump. I am not concerned so much about ribs, I look at how full and round the quarters are, and the topline..... can you give him more hay while holding off on Beauty a month or two? Because I did notice she is now plenty portly... like our mare :o.

[3equines]

Now that I know he is too thin for sure and I'm not the only one who thinks so (I tend to get a little paranoid when it comes to my horses:innocent:), I think I figured out what I'm going to do.
I'm going to up his beetpulp ration and start giving the horses about 3 or 4 flakes of hay a day (remember they are on pasture 24/7). Beauty needs it like she needs a hole in her head, but they live in the same pasture with the same run in shelter all the time so she'll be eating it too, no way around it really. I'll see if that helps and if not I'll work from there.

Yep, I think your pasture has gone dormant. The grass this time of year starts to lose its nutritional value, and if it has been grazed all summer, then all the '
good stuff' has been eaten allready. I normally would have to start haying my horses this time of year, but now Taz is gone, he had the same body type as Dakota; the Haflingers still keep fat and happy on what grazing is left.

Since you allready use beet pulp, try adding some alfalfa pellets to it before you feed it to Dakota. Alfalfa pellets are cheap and add a nice bit of protien and calcium, which helps put wieght on, without hyping up on carbohydrates.

Happy trails, and remember to cherish each moment you have together.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Yeah - I'd bump him up and see if you can round out some of the angles and points in his rump. I am not concerned so much about ribs, I look at how full and round the quarters are, and the topline

Lol, I was spazzing out about his ribs. I'm used to all his "pointy edges.":doh: His topline and rump have been a *little* more filled out in the past but not much. No matter what I do he never gains at all on his topline, and his butt will only round up slightly.:doh: Even when he is looking his absolute best he still his those angles in his hips/butt. I have no idea why. Must be the Saddldbred in him.:rolleyes:
But I am definateluy going to bump his beet pulp ration and I threw them some hay this morning, about 3-4 flakes.


..... can you give him more hay while holding off on Beauty a month or two?
Because I did notice she is now plenty portly... like our mare :o.

Oh yes, she is definately "portly.":o She's built like a tank. I swear I do not overfeed her, she can gain weight just by looking at food. But unfortunately I don't think I can give him hay without her eating it too. i'd have to take him in a seperate pasture to eat it which isn't really something I like to do for a long period of time (because the water and shelter is in the main pasture only, etc). I mean that is how I grain him, but he'd take forever to eat all his hay... but maybe...

[WashingtonBay]

Well, maybe you can feed him while you work her... or stand her tied someplace. That would make her real happy I'm sure ;)

Dakota's never going to look like a QH, you're right it is partly his breed. And you really don't want him heavy at his age or with his pasterns. So if you bump him up, don't hope to see him a LOT heavier. Just a little.


I think you and Beauty are in the same boat we're in with Cyn, we got her thin, and fed her like a hard keeper for the first year, now she's too fat. Somewhere in the middle there is the balance. :)

[HeartofSteel]

You have already gotten some good advice :) Have you ever considered adding Veggie Oil to his grain? It's good for weight gain and is also really good for muscle recovery

[MyMia]

I don't have any advice food-wise, but I wanted to say that maybe he's just a naturally thin horse? There are very lucky people who don't gain weight no matter what (and I'm definitely not one of them!:mad:), so it makes sense horses can be that way, too. Charlie (20+ y.o. QH) is kind of that way--he's very ribby, but he has a rounded butt and fatty spots on his shoulders. I make sure his teeth are done regularly, he's wormed regularly, and he eats well (senior feed and plenty of hay), so that's just the way he is. I tried him on beet pulp but it didn't seem to do much so I stopped it.

[OwnedByOurHorses]

As 3E has said there is nothing in the grass that has any value this time of year.

Shadow has giving me the ups and downs of weight headaches that older horses can have, more so this year. due to the high heat. So we switched him to eX-FACTOR 12-6 Complete looks like dry dog food. It's a complete feed no need to feed hay,or pasture, it does break down the amounts you feed if you want to add hay or pasture.. He likes to be out with his buddys so as it stands now for Shadow he getting 10lb of complete a day along with hay and pasture . It has helped fatting up his top line and the sunken butt look is gone You can barely see the outline of his ribs. He is not fat nor is he skinny he is at a prefect weight for a pasture decorations that is spoiled rotten, also has to have two dobbin delight treats twice a day as forgiviness for making him wear his fly mask..:greengrin:

[Gypsy Rose]

I think a full coffee can weighs around 2 lbs? For some reason that number is sticking in my head because I know I weighed it a long time ago. But I don't have a scale to do it again.:doh: So he's getting about 1.5 or 1.75 lbs. of grain. It's a good feed. He's done really well on this grain and beet pulp combo. He was really skinny when I first bought him back in 2006 and this was the only thing I found that helped him gain and maintain weight (I tried lots of different feeds before finding this one that actually works). I think he just needs a little more beetpulp and hay. Maybe there isn't quite as much grass out there as I think or maybe it just doesn't have all the nutrients he needs. This hapens with him now and then, his weight fluctuating I mean. I usually just up his beet pulp ration a little or toss out a few more flakes of hay and that solves the problem. He's just a really hard keeper.:doh:

His grain is called 12% High Oil Horse Feed. (I buy it at the local feed store, they mix it themselves.) I'm reading the little tag that comes on the bag and it says "A protein, fat, vitamin, and mineral supplement for all classes of horses". It lists all the ingredients and %'s and stuff too, but if I typed all that out I would be here all day.

What you need to find are the recommended feeding amounts. If you're feeding below them Dakota's nutritional needs may be lacking in some areas.

[Miracle Whip]

Have you seen photos of Rashad? He is an older horse, I never heard if there was anything wrong with Rashad or not.

I think its the camera angle. If he was younger I'd say leave him alone. I don't mind having a little rib on my horses but this time of the year they are BOTH fat on pasture grass alone. I think, IMHO, that most of his issues are muscular, and old age. Check out his teeth first.

[farmers_wife]

Rashad sometimes looks like you can see his ribs and other times he looks good. I would up his grain. Rashad is 28yr old and he gets 16lbs of grain a day. maybe switch to a senior feed. I switched Rashad to a senior feed, Purina with amplify. It really helped him gain weight. And you want to make sure he gets weight on before winter. Good luck and it happen. Sometimes older horses are hard keepers. I should know. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Equine_Woman]

My hard keepers all get a lot more grain than what Dakota is getting. And it all started at 20. . . that was the year I could tell a difference in their ability to keep weight on. I had to double both my girls feed to keep them at the same weight.

Mack gets 17 lbs of Safe Choice 14% pellet a day, plus free choice Coastal, plus 4 cups of Calcium fortified, stablilized Rice Bran, plus vegetable Oil, MSM, Probios and Bute. .. And he still looks underweight when it's hot.


Sterling gets 8 lbs of Safe Choice a day plus free choice coastal,

Sunny gets 8 lbs of Safe Choice, A big helping of Alfalfa cubes soaked, 2 cups rice bran, oil and probios

Sonora gets 1 lb of Safe Choice and free choice Coastal. . .

Notice a difference? Sonora is 6 years old. . . (Sterling and Sunny are 21, Mack is likely 23 plus. . .)

We built stalls out of panels to feed in so that everyone is sure to get their own serving, and not someone elses. Is it possible that Beauty is getting some of Dakota's grain? Is there somewhere you could set up separate feeding pens? My kids go up in the evening and stay up all night. (all except Mack) If it rains I turn them loose. It's the only way I found to feed without having to stand there and wait on them to finish. . .and with so much food going in it takes a while to feed!

Good luck! I've found weight fluctuations to be one of the biggest head aches in owning an older horse. . it takes a daily assessment of condition (and photos in my case, cause that's how I notice it) to be able to see if we are going the right direction or the wrong one!

[farmers_wife]

I also have Rashad seperate because the other horses would eat their grain.

[Miracle Whip]

Can you help me visualize 17 pounds of Safechoice? And what is the recommended daily amount according to the package? I want to understand the poundage, especially since he gets free choice Hay. Are Mack's teeth ok? What exactly, is 17 pounds and how often do you feed in order for him to actually chew that amount? I think Safechoice is wonderful but feeding an older horse 17 times as much grain as the 6 year old seems a bit unusual to me.

I was actually thinking more arena work, because it looks like the topline is the problem and he is only on the trails. If he lunged, and I can't remember if Koda does or not, you could adjust his headset (he needs more collection) and work on building up his back. Circle work, like you are doing with Beauty would help him gain muscle also.

I think WBay has used trot poles for Bay? Same concept.

[vicklynn]

See, I dont think the ribs look bad to me, but the back line, hips, and buttocks, are what stuck out to me.
Depending on what size coffee can you use, really makes a difference. A small coffee can may not be enough.
Im sure some extra beet pulp wouldnt hurt either.
I agree on the pasture this time of yr, not much to it.
Can you separate the horses during feeding time so he gets a full amount of feed/hay?

He sure is a pretty boy and I can understand why you'd be protective. Hes your baby.
You'll do right by him. You always do.

[Miracle Whip]

Tons of pasture here yet! But, it rains every week also. The actual growth might be slowing down, because I am waiting for another cutting of the hay, but both of mine are fat. In fact, I am thinking about cutting back on their pasture time. They have 3 acres for the 2 of them.

[Equine_Woman]

Can you help me visualize 17 pounds of Safechoice? And what is the recommended daily amount according to the package? I want to understand the poundage, especially since he gets free choice Hay. Are Mack's teeth ok? What exactly, is 17 pounds and how often do you feed in order for him to actually chew that amount? I think Safechoice is wonderful but feeding an older horse 17 times as much grain as the 6 year old seems a bit unusual to me.




Sure! Mack is about 1300 - 1400 lbs, 17 plus hands, Trakehner (warmblood), teeth are great, everything is great, he just needs the extra grain. He gets fed 2 x a day. in 8 1/2 lbs at each feeding. That's 2 scoops of the scoop you buy in the feed store. That's right at the upper level of recommended levels for a horse his size. The vet is aware, and supports my feeding regimen completely. Anytime I make a change with him I consult our vet. Mack is an extremely hard keeper. I'm pretty sure that is why the cowboy who had him before me gave him up. He was bones when I got him. The vet said he was at an okay weight last spring but I wasn't happy with him. His ribs still show in the Summer and Winter, but in the spring and fall he looks perfect to my eyes. He has arthritis pretty bad in his hips so we don't want him to carry too much weight, but don't want him to be bones either. Mack drops most of his feed and then eats it off of a mat. The vet thinks it's just a quirk he has, as his teeth are good, (and we run fecals spring and fall on him to monitor his parasites as well. They are always clean.) The 6 year old maybe weighs 1000 lbs, 14.2 maybe 15 now, quarter horse/arabian cross. So we're comparing Apples and Bananas here really.

I went and pulled the label. He's getting 1.3 lbs per 100 lbs of body weight, which is just under a horse being worked, which is 1.5 lbs per 100lbs. And Mack was considerably skinnier when we did his weight so I think he weighs more than 1300lbs now.

[cheval]

His bony butt isn't looking good. And his spine makes me wince a bit. I think he's underweight. I'd talk with a vet on what you could do to get some weight on him. The vet could help you figure out a plan that best suits him. :(

[WashingtonBay]

I was actually thinking more arena work, because it looks like the topline is the problem and he is only on the trails. If he lunged, and I can't remember if Koda does or not, you could adjust his headset (he needs more collection) and work on building up his back. Circle work, like you are doing with Beauty would help him gain muscle also.

I think WBay has used trot poles for Bay? Same concept.

Different issue. You can exercise strength into an out-of-condition horse, you can't exercise weight onto a thin horse. I think Dakota's is a calorie issue first.

[WashingtonBay]

Can you help me visualize 17 pounds of Safechoice? And what is the recommended daily amount according to the package? I want to understand the poundage, especially since he gets free choice Hay. Are Mack's teeth ok? What exactly, is 17 pounds and how often do you feed in order for him to actually chew that amount? I think Safechoice is wonderful but feeding an older horse 17 times as much grain as the 6 year old seems a bit unusual to me.


Warmbloods like Trakehners, Thoroughbreds, and the like are in a whole nuther category of calorie need than a Hackney pony, or a Saddlebred, for that matter.

[Equine_Woman]

I actually agree with MW, I think some rounding and collection exercises would help him fill out his topline, once he's at the correct weight that is. But WB is right as well, he needs more calories. . I think a little bit more grain (or calorie source) and he'll pick weight up quickly. (at least I hope, my 20 year olds took a bit to turn back around. . but now Sterling is pleasantly plump, and Sunny is getting closer. . .Mack has good months, and bad months.)

[Equine_Woman]

Warmbloods like Trakehners, Thoroughbreds, and the like are in a whole nuther category of calorie need than a Hackney pony, or a Saddlebred, for that matter.

And Mack really seems about 17 times the size of Sonora so it makes sense to me. . . lol. But yes, Trakehners are notoriously hard keepers. . .at least the ones I've known were. TBs too.

[natisha]

Saddlebreds can be hard to put weight over their backs & rumps. The ones I have here would not do well on pasture alone. They need the extra calories. I feed Ultimate Finish- a little goes a long way. I don't think it makes them hotter than they already are.

[vicklynn]

I wouldnt be working him hard for that top line until he puts the extra weight on though.
Some work yes, hard work no, he will just work off the feed he needs to gain that weight.

[cheval]

I agree with Vicki. Get his weight back on, then work on getting the topline and butt muscling back on him.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Wow, I haven't been on the forum for like a day and a half and I'm already behind on replying to threads!:rant: I'll try to answer everyone's questions/concerns now.

Lets see, let me start off by saying that Dakota's teeth are fine and he was also dewormed just a few weeks ago. So he's good to go in that area. :) Also, the angles of the pictures did dramatize the situation, but he is still unfortunately on the too thin side.

The coffee can I use is the bigger, plastic kind. Not the little tinier ones. This one, to be exact, except mine is blue;): http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://alaskaoutdoorjournal.com/Departments/Tips/Images/04peecantip45.jpg&imgrefurl=http://alaskaoutdoorjournal.com/Departments/Tips/peecan45.html&usg=__nF4fD9F1x5ctmGNHFZL-kQhpMk4=&h=400&w=601&sz=24&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=dOtiAqtx8BhMgM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dplastic%2Bcoffee%2Bcan%26hl%3Den%26rl z%3D1W1ADBF_en%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
I used to feed Dakota a senior feed but it really didn't work well for him. The reccomended feeding ammount was insanely high and it cost a ton of money, and it still didn't help him gain & keep the pounds on. Then I discovered the feed he's on now, and he's pretty much been on the ration amount he's on now ever since. And it worked for a while, but I guess he's getting older now and needs a little more to stay at a healthy weight.
I have upped both his beet pulp and his grain ration a little bit, and am giving him a few flakes of hay a day as well, along with 24/7 pasture of course.
I separate (sp?) him when he gets his grain- Beauty does not eat any of it, I make sure of that. The hay is a different story, but I've been trying to give it to him after his grain and before I let Beauty into the second pasture, so he can eat in peace and get it all himself. It's a PITA keeping them separating for feeding because of the way my pastures are set up, but that's what i've been doing. What I wouldn't do to have a nice barn with stalls.:( *sigh*
But yeah, that's what I'm doing right now feed wise. I think it will help, and if not I'm looking into getting alfalfa pellets/cubes whatever for him too, because I've been told that is also good for weight gain. I also considered adding some corn or vegetable oil to his feed, but his grain is all ready a high-oil feed, and I went that route before and it really ended up being an expensive source of calories in the long run. But if he needs it, he needs it.

Lets see, what else? Oh yeah. About his lack of, well, anything (fat & muscle- he's lacking both up there, I know:() on his top line... I know, it's always been a problem for him. Even when he was at a really good weight (remember when I used to post pictures of him like every two weeks last summer to ask if he looked ok?:innocent: :p), his back and withers were still bony. His butt has been a little more filled out in the past but not a lot. He's a really hard keeper, always has been. And it's getting worse as he gets older.
I do pretty much just trail ride him, although occasionally I'll take him the arena and goof around, usually whenever I need new Kota clips for a video, or feel like trying something a little crazy like barefoot, bareback, and bridless.;) He doesn't like the arena and is not a "trot in circles & figure eights and lope all nice pretty around the ring" kind of horse. That's Beauty (not the loping pretty part though:innocent:). Whenever Dakota is in the arena he acts bratty or lazy, one of the two.:rolleyes: It's just not his thing and he doesn't like it. He doesn't lunge either. I bought him at 18 y.o. and he didn't know how to lunge then, and I never taught him because I thought a lot of small circles would be bad for his fetlocks. I never really school Dakota.. he knows his job and I always just hop on and go where ever whenever at whatever speed we feel like at the time. I suppose I could start riding him the arena and attempt to build up his topline, but he won't like it.:doh:

Did I miss anything? If skipped answering any questions, let me know. I need to go eat something before I faint from starvation (hehe), but I'll be back on tonight.:) I'll answer any questions I missed then.:) Thanks for all the help and suggestions, guys.:)

[Miracle Whip]

I can see what you mean in terms of his fetlocks. I don't know. Doesn't hill work help the topline? Maybe at this point in his life he is the best he can be. I only rode my Dad's horse on trails, but she went everywhere, in and out of gullies etc chasing cows when HE rode her and Dad also liked to trot her alot. She didn't have anything extra on her topline, but there wasn't a distinct separation of the topline and the belly area either.

[Peggy Sue]

Good Quality protien builds the back and topline, Fat fills in the rest :)

depending on what you are feeding and the actual wieght and the analysis of the feed on what you need to add :)

[mandisue]

I highly recommend the Vegetable Oil, head to your local grocers and get the veggie oil off the shelf, I started my two off at two capfuls, twice a day with their grain, they were both underweight when we got them and well, they look like beauty now!The veggie oil is a cheap and effective way to add the weight, they use it on race horses too.

[quest]

Your not gonna put muscle on a horse that is underweight. When the body runs out of excess fat to burn, it starts burning muscle, and generally the topline is the first part you start to notice diminish- so no matter how hard you work the horse at getting muscle, he won't get it unless his weight is up where it's supposed to be. Plus, at his age horses generally don't muscle up the same way as a younger horse would. Dakota is a little underweight. I agree with everyone about supplementing him some hay as pastures are generally either grazed down by this time or are losing a great ammount of their nutritional value. I would add the hay and raise the ammount of grain he is getting. As for Beauty, you could tie her up while you feed him, if you have a roundpen you can put her in there for a few hours- or tie her up- she might give a fuss about being tied, but it's good for them. As someone mentioned, blanketing them through the Winter means he has to burn less calories trying to keep himself warm and those calories can go instead to holding his weight. Good luck!

[Joey A]

Warmbloods like Trakehners, Thoroughbreds, and the like are in a whole nuther category of calorie need than a Hackney pony, or a Saddlebred, for that matter.

You have TB's and ASB's in seperate catagories? :crazy: LOL

I do think he could stand a little more weight, but I think he still looks healthy. (This is about the kind of weight you aim to keep a lame horse at) Given his breeding he's prone to carry less mass, and considering his age he's bound to start sagging a bit. I didn't read through the whole thread, but I'd just switch to a real horse feed, (no sweet feed) and see what that does.

I free feed a really high quality hay, and don't have to feed much in the way of concentrates. I really should have them on a ration balancer because they really aren't getting enough grain to meet the nutritional requirements.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Update, 9-26-09

I just wanted to thank everybody again for all the good advice and suggestions, and I figured I owed you an update as well.:)

I have upped Dakota's grain and beet pulp ration quite a bit. He is now getting grain morning and night (he used to just get it in the evening.) His morning feed isn't *quite* as much as his evening- it's like 1/2 to 3/4 of a coffee can of grain and half a coffee can of beet pulp (measured dry, fed soaked). At night he gets a full coffee can of grain and more like 3/4 a coffee can of beet pulp. In case anyone is confused and doesn't like my cofee can way of measuring, this is the one I'm using (except mine is blue;)), just so you know the size I'm talking: http://dynamicpatents.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/folgers_plastic_can.jpg
I have also started adding corn oil to his grain ration. I'm starting out slow, he gets only a 1/4 of a cup a day- so an 1/8 poured over his grain morning and night. I'm not sure how much I'm supposed to work up to yet, but I'll look into that asap (I think it's like 1/2 to 3/4 of a cup a day? Could be wrong there). He also gets his joint supplements of course, but that has nothing to do with his weight.
I'm feeding hay now too. So hopefully all of that will help and he'll gain some weight! *crosses fingers* If this doesn't work, I'm considering trying rice bran (although I don't know my feed store carries it, I'll have to ask them). I've been doing some research on it and it seem to come highly reccomended for weight gain. What do you guys think?

[Dakota Sunrise]

Bumpity bump for the update!:D

[mandisue]

Great! I am sure that the oil will help, I know it did with my two, and Tess was a rescue case when we got her.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Great! I am sure that the oil will help, I know it did with my two, and Tess was a rescue case when we got her.


I hope it will.:) How much did you give your horses per day? I'm not sure what I need to work up to. Is it like 1/2 a cup a day?