Bits-to many options

[Ix3Morgans]

Right now my horse came with a correctional bit
described as=
Cheeks: 8 1/2” stainless steel cheeks with hand engraving silver overlay.
Mouthpiece: 5” tilted correction mouth
looks like =
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q11/Sugary2Sweet/correctional.jpg

She works very well in it
But As far as I know that can be a harsh bit, and I dont feel confident that Im not causing her discomfort with me using it. Also according to 4-H rules I believe it's illegal but I'm not positive,can someone tell me if it is?

So I was wondering if you guys can help me come up with a bit that she will be able to feel[she needs leverage to really collect herself to her full potential] and thatisnt illegal according to 4-H rules. listed below.

1. Horses over the age of 5 are no longer snaffle bit horses and must be shown with a proper shanked bit with shank no longer than 8 1/2 inches.
2. Concerning mouthpieces, bars must be round, smooth and
unwrapped metal of 5/16-inch to 3/4-inch in diameter, measured
1 inch from the cheek. They may be inlaid, but must be
smooth or latex wrapped. Nothing (including extensions or
prongs) may protrude below the mouthpiece on solid mouthpieces.
The mouthpiece may be two or three pieces. A threepiece
connecting ring of 1¼ inch or less in diameter, or a
connecting flat bar of 3/8 inch to 3/4 inch or less in diameter,
or a connecting flat bar of 3/8 inch to 3/4 inch (measured
top to bottom with a maximum length of 2 inches),
which lies flat in the horse’s mouth, is acceptable.
3. The port must be no higher than 3½ inches, with rollers
and covers acceptable. Broken mouthpieces, halfbreeds and
spades are standard.


Any suggestions? and Thank you for taking the time to read this!

[gaited07]

Right now my horse came with a correctional bit
described as=
Cheeks: 8 1/2” stainless steel cheeks with hand engraving silver overlay.
Mouthpiece: 5” tilted correction mouth
looks like =
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q11/Sugary2Sweet/correctional.jpg

She works very well in it
But As far as I know that can be a harsh bit, and I dont feel confident that Im not causing her discomfort with me using it. Also according to 4-H rules I believe it's illegal but I'm not positive,can someone tell me if it is?

So I was wondering if you guys can help me come up with a bit that she will be able to feel[she needs leverage to really collect herself to her full potential] and thatisnt illegal according to 4-H rules. listed below.

1. Horses over the age of 5 are no longer snaffle bit horses and must be shown with a proper shanked bit with shank no longer than 8 1/2 inches.
2. Concerning mouthpieces, bars must be round, smooth and
unwrapped metal of 5/16-inch to 3/4-inch in diameter, measured
1 inch from the cheek. They may be inlaid, but must be
smooth or latex wrapped. Nothing (including extensions or
prongs) may protrude below the mouthpiece on solid mouthpieces.
The mouthpiece may be two or three pieces. A threepiece
connecting ring of 1¼ inch or less in diameter, or a
connecting flat bar of 3/8 inch to 3/4 inch or less in diameter,
or a connecting flat bar of 3/8 inch to 3/4 inch (measured
top to bottom with a maximum length of 2 inches),
which lies flat in the horse’s mouth, is acceptable.

3.
The port must be no higher than 3½ inches, with rollers
and covers acceptable. Broken mouthpieces, halfbreeds and
spades are standard.


Any suggestions? and Thank you for taking the time to read this!



I would like to say that you don't need leverage to collect a horse just better training starting with ground work.
This appears to be a harsh bit. There are some shank bits that would be less pressure on the roof, bars and chin.

[rocknK]

If your horse is going well then keep going. Repeat after me..bits are not harsh, the hands attached to the reins can be! For the life of me I can't figure out why this type of bit is called "correction". If the name worries you maybe you could call it a ported three piece shanked-snaffle. Good luck.
As far as collection goes the will take time & repetition. If the horse can collect when you pick up their face, you need to pick up, release, pick up, release, you get the point. The horse will learn more from the release than the pick up. Eventually the will learn to stay together on a loose rein. Thats just one part, driving forward with your seat also encourages collection. Read cowpunchers thread regarding this subject he goes into alot more detail.

[WashingtonBay]

I understand all Western Pleasure horses have to be shown in a shanked leverage bit, so the question isn't really 'if' but 'which one'.

I don't see which part you think makes the one you have illegal. It seems to be within those specs.

[Palogal]

I preface this by saying I'm a "snaffle or bust" kind of trainer and I don't like leverage bits. However, Having judged a few shows, I don't see what would make this illegal in Western Shows. You'd be voted off the island for trying to use it in an English event :) though.

[WashingtonBay]

You'd be voted off the island for trying to use it in an English event :) though.

Well duh... it's a Western bit. :rolleyes:

[rocknK]

Snaffle bits are fine, I ride in one type or another almost half the time. The problem with them as I see it is that sometimes I need to deliver my gelding a message like, now, not two or three seconds later so I pick up the reins, engage the bit, deliver my message, release the reins & get on with whatever I'm doing. Hope that makes sense.

[Ix3Morgans]

Wait, so this bit isn't scraping the top of my horses mouth with every time I touch the reins?
I was getting ready to ride on a trail with a few of my friends yesterday and they simply flipped out when I pulled out my bridle.
They explained that the port scrapes her mouth and said that the bit is severe no matter how light handed I am and that It didn't fit in within 4-H guidelines and I should just toss it and put something else in her mouth.

Now How exactly does this bit work?

The only thing wrong with this bit is that I need a slightly lower port then I'll be fine right?

[FredRock]

I was getting ready to ride on a trail with a few of my friends yesterday and they simply flipped out when I pulled out my bridle.


I know people who think I "abuse" Fred because I put a twisted wire bit in his mouth, let's forget that he works the best in it. I also switched from a Kimberwicke a while ago and got a speel about how bad they were and what a good thing it was to stop using them. Apparently only "poorly trained" horses needed them. :rolleyes: I laugh it off because I know better, and I know how my horse works in them and why I'm using them. In other words, think about who the source is, because they might not know a darn thing, but think they have a right to tell you that you're wrong.

As far as whether or not it will scrape, it shouldn't if you're riding right. You shouldn't be direct reining in it anyways, so any use of the bit is minimal. Now if you're direct reining in it, you're using the wrong bit. I can't think of how to describe how it works, so I'll let someone else explain it.

[WashingtonBay]

No, it doesn't scrape her mouth if it's fitted correctly. The port encourages her to hold the bit vertically in her mouth, which means hanging her head vertically in line with it. The chin chain is probably what comes into play first, which changes the pressure point from the corners of the lips, as in a snaffle, to the chin, bars of the mouth and tongue, and the bridle at the poll. The longer the shanks, the more leverage in the lever. I think all things considered, whether pressure on the corners of the lips or on the bars of the mouth is 'kinder' or 'more fun' would be hard to decide, for me. The principle of western bits is that the bit is heavy and sensitive so the horse can be on a loose rein and still sense your movement. When it's not moving, it doesn't hurt her at all, so if you ride it light, it's not any harsher than you are.

It is a high port, but the fact that it's three pieces and open on the bottom of the port which provides some tongue relief, it's actually milder than if it had a high port and a straight mouth.

If I were you, I'd probably save this bit for show, because I think it is legal as far as I can read, and use something else for every day schooling, or it is possible your horse will lose any edge you may have with it now. A snaffle or a grazing bit might be fine schooling in the arena, maybe a hackamore on trail if you need more. Then bit up in this one for show and you'll find her sharper with it than if you use it every day.

[rocknK]

Morgan, I'd try getting some more informed folks to ride with. Some people oughta engage their brains before they open their mouths.

[WashingtonBay]

Heh,... good point Rockn... or at least become a little more confident in your own judgment, because you'll be under constant attack from people who believe differently than you do about bits, saddles, whether you shoe your horse or not, stall them, blanket them or give them a particular feed. If we haven't thought through what we're doing and why, there's lots of opinionated people waiting to convince us we are killing our horse if we keep doing what we're doing. ;)

[cowpuncher]

Wait, so this bit isn't scraping the top of my horses mouth with every time I touch the reins?
I was getting ready to ride on a trail with a few of my friends yesterday and they simply flipped out when I pulled out my bridle.
They explained that the port scrapes her mouth and said that the bit is severe no matter how light handed I am
Now How exactly does this bit work?

The only thing wrong with this bit is that I need a slightly lower port then I'll be fine right?


1. Your friends are idiots and don't know what they are talking about. The port is NOT hight enough to "scrape" the roof of your horse's mouth, unless maybe if you are riding a 10 hand pony. The bit operates off the curb strap, just like any other CURB bit.

2. THat's actually nicer for a horse than a low or medium port bit because it provides much more mouth and tongue relief, instead of having constant pressure on the tongue. The bit operates on the bars (as it should), rather than on the tongue. Tell your friends to open their minds and learn something new, not rely on "growingup a-horseback" as the end-all, be-all of training knwledge.

[Ix3Morgans]

Okay thanks for the information everyone.
They are really big on the natural horsemanship fad so I suppose they aren't exactly creditable when they are talking about bits.
So schooling in a tom thumb then bit up with a correctional for show is probably what im going to do.

[cowpuncher]

Not that it's the end of the world to use a Tom Thumb, but you might look at a "dogbone" type mouthpiece as a transitional bit instead. Because it's got three sections to the mouthpiece, it provides a lot more mouth relief (like the Correction), than the Tom Thumb. The Tom THumb, AKA Argentine Snaffle or Cowboy Snaffle (even though it's NOT a snaffle), can have a nutcracker effect on the horse's lower jaw if you pick both reins up at the same time.