Achieving bend

[TacheteTreasures]

Ok, here is my dilemma. I have been having a heck of a time getting schatze to give me an inside bend. What I have been trying to do is half halts using my inside leg and inside leg to get her to bend. If I put too much pressure on the reins she will go to the inside, ignoring my leg, and if I dont put as much pressure she just blows me off or gets aggrivated. She is trying, but she just doesnt get it. She knows leg and seat commands, and what pressure on the reins means, but something about bend.
She will flex on the ground and standing still no problem. Walking is alright, but the bend is very small, trotting is a hardest, as soon as she gets it its gone again, and canter she naturally bends, which is awesome.
Any suggestions?

[TacheteTreasures]

Also, I ride in a full cheek snaffle if that helps.

[HeartofSteel]

Is it equal in both directions or worse to the left or right? Be sure your not asking for to much bend at the trot, you should just see the eye lash on the inside.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, lets talk about the type and order you're using on your aids...

I've drawn a little man that I've used before in other discussions, that I'll repost here. Ideally, the horse's body would be bent as well as his neck, but I had a hard time drawing that, so I left him square.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=537&d=1225154193

But here's the description of what he's doing to get a nice, bending turn:

The red arrows indicate the direction of movement or pressure.

From the top down:

Eyes looking in the direction of the bend. Not at the destination, at the point in front of the horse on the circle where you'd like him to go. Allow your upper body to rotate also.

Inside rein starts the bend, outside rein sets and limits the amount of bend.

Inside leg at the girth plants and gives the body something to bend around. I think of it like the 'pole plant' before a turn snow skiing.

Outside leg moves back as needed to keep the hindquarter from swinging out and provide impulsion.

Make sense?

[cowpuncher]

Good solid description WB! The only caveat I would add is to NOT lose impulsion. I used to use the line that "Flexion plus Impulsion equals collection." What I've discovered though, is that for most people, and most horses, it needs to be "Impulsion plus Flexion equals Collection."

You have to keep driving the horse with your legs to maintain impulsion. Not enough impulsion will lead to the horse bending too much, and there is the additional issue of the horse just stopping.

If you can maintain the impulsion, and the flexion laterally, and longitudinally, you'll do well.

It is true that the horse should bend through the spine, but it's important to remember that there is only so much lateral bend in the horse's spine. As someone said, only the outside of the inside eye needs to be visible. The key to maintaining that is using that outside, indirect rein of opposition (unless I'm getting my dressage terms confused again, it has happened.)to support the structure and frame of the horse. To much bend to the inside will cause the horse to drop his shoulder outside the arc of the circlem and you'll "fall" out of the circle.

Practice it at the walk on a large, 20 or 30 ft diameter circle to start. When the horse will do it properly, and softly, move up to the jog, then the extended trot, THEN the collected canter, then the high lope. At each stage, you should be working on your downward transitions as well, and stops on the haunches, while keeping the horse in frame.

[TacheteTreasures]

Now, should the rein pressure be steady for this or be a little bumping

[WashingtonBay]

Steady.... bumping would tend to indicate you want more. You want to establish and then hold the bend.

[cowpuncher]

Steady.... bumping would tend to indicate you want more. You want to establish and then hold the bend.

At the risk of being really confusing, since I'm not sure I can express it adequately, I'd say "both." Not really bumping, but I NEVER advocate just holding on. If the horse is working the circle in frame, I'll do the constant, steady but subtle pressure and release.

My view, as I was taught, is that anytime you "hold" that pressure, you;'re not giving the horse a release so he can't really learn exactly what it is you're looking for. If you pick up with the same pressure everytime, and only give a LITTLE release, you're not really asking for more, just asking him to keep the same bend.

Crap! I know it works, and I know how to do it, I'm just not sure I'm explaining it coherently. If not, sorry!

[WashingtonBay]

I understand trying to write what is definitely a 'feel' thing. :) But in my mind if the horse is giving that amount of bend it's not actually taking 'pressure' to hold it there. You're just holding steady where you want them. If they're pulling back, I'd increase the pressure.

So steady for me, if the horse is giving the bend you want your fingers should be relaxed and just keeping it there. You wouldn't want to be bump-bump-bumping the horse then.

At risk of using a car analogy that is bound to be faulty, it's like your steering input on a car. If you turn the wheel 10 degrees and hold it there, it will stay in that degree of turn. The amount of pressure to hold it there is minimal... much less than the amount of pressure to increase it. If you continued adding more pressure the circle would get tighter. But if you just released it, the car would straighten out again.

[TacheteTreasures]

I understand exactly what you mean, thanks!

[gaited07]

I like following your guys posts (WB & CP) Your both very skilled horsemen (woman)
Very educational.

[WashingtonBay]

:) Thanks, glad if it helped. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of that little turn graphic, if I'd have known I'd use it over and over again, I might have made it better. :)

[ImaBronsonBear]

Thanks ya'll so much! I was just working today on bending Bronson, and although he would move his feet the direction i wanted when i touched the rein, he wasn't bending through the turn, so that's what we worked on. WB and cowpuncher, your posts were very helpful.:)

[cowpuncher]

Glad to provide whatever little assistance I can!