White Line Disease!

[luvs2ride1979]

So, my mare decided to get WLD... She's barefoot and living in mud. There's not much I can do about her living conditions until it stops f-ing raining! She has two holes in her white line, on either side of her front left foot, at the quarters. I've been keeping it trimmed back, picking/cleaning daily, treating with strong iodine, and packing the holes with cotton soaked in Eclipse wound wash (says on the bottle that it's good for WLD).

One hole is slowly growing out. It's not as deep as it was. The other, not so much... I am thinking of soaking her foot daily in Oxine AH, a treatment that worked great for another horse with a similar issue a couple of years ago. However, she's not the best at soaking and I don't have it in my budget to buy a soaking boot ATM.

Any other ideas? The hole that's growing out is about 1/2" deep, so we're almost good there. The other is a good 1" deep... I can take pictures if that would help. Should I cut back the wall that's over the hole? I haven't been wanting to do that since it will hold soaked cotton up there really well.

She is "off", so she's not being ridden, which suits her just fine, lol. However, she's my best school horse and I REALLY need to get her back in to the rotation. HELP!

[palomino]

White Lightning. Im serious when I say you will see dramatic improvement with soaks daily for 3 days, then EOD. Go to www.grandcircuit.com (http://www.grandcircuit.com) and you will see it. You dont need the special soaking boot for the white lightning if you have your own and some plastic wrap and vetwrap. You just have to trap the gas in the boot.
Hope this helps.

[luvs2ride1979]

Hmm, I have an IV bag. Would that work with some duct tape at the top? I've thought about White Lightening. I'll have to see if my local feed store has it.

[Joey A]

I usually just resect the infected horn and treat with Durasole. Even White Lightning can't get deep enough sometimes.

If the resection is severe they may need shoes.

That's all the help I can offer.

[SedonaThunder]

Timber came with a resect and a shoe... the shoe fell off and when the wall finally grew out he still had the hole and bit of infection. I packed the hole with a tea tree oil soaked cotton ball and a ring of duct tape around his hoof every morning... it grew out and hasn't been back in a year.

[palomino]

I have used IV bags and duct tape before and it seems to work pretty good. Joey is right on the money, if the infection is way far up, resecting it is the only way to get it all out. I would try the WL for a week, and if you see no improvement, I would call your farrier out for a resection.

[luvs2ride1979]

Hmm, I have some Durasole Joey. Did you use that in the affected area?

Okay, here are pictures from today. I figured it was WLD because it's just SOOOO deep. She's had seperation before, but not to this extent. She does limp on that foot, which she never did with seperation in the past.

I trimmed her feet first, then took pictures. She seemed more sound after the trim. I tried to take pressure off those walls as much as possible, and also lowered her heels (she is halter bred and has naturally upright angles). She also is a bit pigeon toed. If I try to "fix" it, she doesn't move very well.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/3/8/9/7/lf_bottom_1-25-10.jpg

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/3/8/9/7/lf_bottom_angle_1-25-10_thumb.jpg (http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/showimage.php?i=254949)

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/3/8/9/7/lf_side_1-25-10_thumb.jpg (http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/showimage.php?i=254951)
Looks like I could have lowered her quarters even more... I'll take another look at that tomorrow.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/3/8/9/7/lf_front_1-25-10_thumb.jpg (http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/showimage.php?i=254950)

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/3/8/9/7/lf_heel_1-25-10_thumb.jpg (http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/showimage.php?i=254952)

(these pictures are uploaded on another forum, when you click on them, the gallery will open up)

[palomino]

That doesnt look bad, actually. I would clean and soak. I dont think its severe enough for a resection, it looks like seperation to me, not quite to WLD. IMO

[luvs2ride1979]

Thanks guys! I'm off to find some white lightening, and trim those quarters back a bit more. Hopefully I can get that stretched toe fixed while I'm at it ;).

[palomino]

WL helps with stretched laminae too!!! You should post progress pics!

[HoustonFarrier]

I'd remove some of that hoof wall to get a better look at what is behind it.

As far as WL helping with stretched laminae.....I cannot see how. Stretched laminae are a mechanical problem.....no fungicide is going to help fix a bad trim.

Steve

[Joey A]

Thanks guys! I'm off to find some white lightening, and trim those quarters back a bit more. Hopefully I can get that stretched toe fixed while I'm at it ;).

That looks like the beginnings of a classic case of whiteline. The foot looks too tight in the quarters to be simple seperations. Keep a close eye on it if you are just going to treat it topically, it can turn into a @*&#*^$ mess quick.

Even with the toe rolled there is still too much leverage on the toe to correct the distortion. If she had a better laminar attachment the leverage wouldn't really matter. If she's lame, you need to be more aggressive on all points IMO.

WL helps with stretched laminae too!!!

How so?

[Joey A]

As far as WL helping with stretched laminae.....I cannot see how. Stretched laminae are a mechanical problem.....no fungicide is going to help fix a bad trim.

Ssssshh! I'm trying to slow play it. :cool:

[HoustonFarrier]

Ssssshh! I'm trying to slow play it. :cool:

My bad......:innocent:

Steve

[SedonaThunder]

The foot looks too tight in the quarters to be simple seperations. Joey - what does this mean? I'm looking at the picture and trying to understand... are you referring to the placement and depth of the separations?

[JackieB]

Ssssshh! I'm trying to slow play it. :cool:

That's never been Steve's strong suit. :p

Do the heels look high to you, Joey? The do to me, but I may not know what I'm seeing.

I think Buster's were about like these when you pointed them out to me. I started taking them down 1/16" or so at a time so that I wouldn't goof up and leave him sore. Now, the plane from heel to toe looks better relative to the entire hoof and the bulbs spread out a bit, too.

[Joey A]

Joey - what does this mean? I'm looking at the picture and trying to understand... are you referring to the placement and depth of the separations?

By "tight" I mean there is not a lot of flare in the quarters.

That's never been Steve's strong suit. :p

Poor Steve. :(

Do the heels look high to you, Joey? The do to me, but I may not know what I'm seeing.

Yeah but I get tired of saying the heels are too long and the toe is too far forward. I pick the bigger target and hit that one. The heels are close, 1/8"-3/16" anyway.

I think Buster's were about like these when you pointed them out to me. I started taking them down 1/16" or so at a time so that I wouldn't goof up and leave him sore. Now, the plane from heel to toe looks better relative to the entire hoof and the bulbs spread out a bit, too.

Sounds good, have you compared them to your old photos? You should get some photos, I'd like to see how they're come along.

[luvs2ride1979]

She grows a lot of heel... When I take it down a lot, it just grows back in quicker, lol. I have been slowly lowering them this time and it's "taking" a bit better. By next trim I should have the about right. Lowering the heels should also help the stretched toe, at least I'm hoping so. Her toes have looked like that off and on for a LONG time, more on than off..., no matter who's trimming or shoeing her (the slight dished look to the front of her front hooves).

I think I'm going to try soaking it for 4 or 5 days. If I don't see improvement, I'll resect the wall out to expose the area better.

I ran across some "Karatex Hoof Putty" that looked interesting for filling the holes. I know I need to get rid of the infection before filling them with anything, but what do you think? More trouble than it's worth?

[JackieB]

Sounds good, have you compared them to your old photos? You should get some photos, I'd like to see how they're come along.

I keep refining and looking forward to the day when I feel I'm ready to take new pictures and show them to you with pride. :) It's coming, though.

[palomino]

Keeping the fungus out of stretched laminae helps it close along with correct trimming. This is why I havent posted on hoof stuff in awhile, you guys dont have to try to make me feel stupid.
You can have the hoof threads, last time I try to help.

[HoustonFarrier]

Keeping the fungus out of stretched laminae helps it close along with correct trimming. This is why I havent posted on hoof stuff in awhile, you guys dont have to try to make me feel stupid.
You can have the hoof threads, last time I try to help.

Lighten up :p

As far as keeping fungus out of stretched laminae "helping" it close up, I just don't see how. Stretched laminae are, as I said, a result of poor hoof form. While keeping fungus at bay in ANY compromised foot is important, it is so only for the fact that you want fewer problems getting in the way of healing a foot. Stretched laminae that you can see at the bottom of a foot NEVER close.....they get trimmed off!

The key to healing stretched laminae is correct trimming/shoeing and ............time.

That's my story...and I'm sticking to it :D

Steve

[luvs2ride1979]

Don't give up Palomino, you're advice is good too ;).

Thank you to the farriers. I also got some trimming advice from a couple of barefoot trimmers that follows along the same lines (lowering the heel more, backing up the toe, cut out the wall). I'll give her a few days to get used to her current heel height, and then I'll rasp off some more.

One more question for the professions. How far can I safely back up the toe? I've already got it a bit past the waterline. Should I back it up to the sole, since it's not really doing much good anyway? Or would that put too much pressure on the toe callus and cause further lameness?

[Joey A]

She grows a lot of heel... When I take it down a lot, it just grows back in quicker, lol.

That's because when you lower the heels you increase the leverage on that toe and the heels try to grow out to reduce the leverage. Same as with a club foot. If you address the leverage when you take the heels down you won't have that happen.

Lowering the heels should also help the stretched toe, at least I'm hoping so. Her toes have looked like that off and on for a LONG time, more on than off..., no matter who's trimming or shoeing her (the slight dished look to the front of her front hooves).


As I said lowering the heels will increase leverage, and leverage is what's causing that dish in the toe.

A foot like that here, 4 months and I could have a normal looking foot. I'd lower that heel but that's only part of the problem.

I ran across some "Karatex Hoof Putty" that looked interesting for filling the holes. I know I need to get rid of the infection before filling them with anything, but what do you think? More trouble than it's worth?

If you have a small infection, and you can use a tool like a bone curette or an abcess probe to dig out ALL the infected horn then you can pack with Keratex to keep it clean, but it's really hard to be sure you got it clean without a full resection.

[Joey A]

One more question for the professions. How far can I safely back up the toe? I've already got it a bit past the waterline. Should I back it up to the sole, since it's not really doing much good anyway? Or would that put too much pressure on the toe callus and cause further lameness?

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5121

Can't comment on if it would add to lameness not knowing why she's lame.

[luvs2ride1979]

Thanks Joey, that thread helped me a lot. I get scared trimming off too much, lol.

[Charlie Piccione]

In my opinion she is toe walking because she has what looks like deep infection in the central culcus behind the frog. She is off the heels that is the reason they are contracted Her lamini is streched from 1/4 down from the hair line to the bottom of the hoof probably from mechanical forces, and diet. I would seek the help of a proffesional trimmer in your area. If you shoe her I don't know how you will keep the preasure off the walls to stop the lamini from tearing away. I would x-ray this horse you may be surprised at what you see. Here is a link that may help you find some answers. http://www.hoofrehab.com

[AppyLover]

In my opinion she is toe walking because she has what looks like deep infection in the central culcus behind the frog. She is off the heels that is the reason they are contracted Her lamini is streched from 1/4 down from the hair line to the bottom of the hoof probably from mechanical forces, and diet. I would seek the help of a proffesional trimmer in your area. If you shoe her I don't know how you will keep the preasure off the walls to stop the lamini from tearing away. I would x-ray this horse you may be surprised at what you see. Here is a link that may help you find some answers. http://www.hoofrehab.com

Hay Charlie, you starting to look like a spammer with posting this website so far in 3 out of 4 posts, if it is really that important to you put it in your signature instead of necro posting old threads or spamming all of your posts with it. Really any one here will welcome you, but this repetitive posting is getting old.

[Charlie Piccione]

Hay Charlie, you starting to look like a spammer with posting this website so far in 3 out of 4 posts, if it is really that important to you put it in your signature instead of necro posting old threads or spamming all of your posts with it. Really any one here will welcome you, but this repetitive posting is getting old.

Not intended to offend. Maybe this is just not a forum for me.:whiteflag:Just tried to help a horse in need. Because that is what I do.

[HoustonFarrier]

Just tried to help a horse in need Because that is what I do.

As do the rest of us.

Steve

[APPYT]

Stick around Charlie. Don't worry about a little negativity. I often post the link to my trimmer's site on forums when hoof health is discussed. Here, I'm gonna do it just for you. ;) http://www.barefoothooves.net/ (http://www.barefoothooves.net/)

[AppyLover]

Not intended to offend. Maybe this is just not a forum for me.:whiteflag:Just tried to help a horse in need. Because that is what I do.


I am sure you have an abundance of knowledge to share and I never once said you were not welcome here, because you are. I am not meaning to be negative sorry if you took it that way. My only point was that every post had the same info...it was looking odd. That was all and I wanted to make sure that if you were not intending to spam, then you could address that pattern before it got you into trouble. In fact I think you are going to be adding another valuable insight to hoof issues.