My entire body is shaking...

[Horseaholic]

I'm home alone as the boyfriend is at work until 1. Prado has been continuing to get worse when we take him out to graze with the crow hops, mini rears, and disrespect. He's gotten better on listening/focusing on me but every time I take him out I have at least one incident of him crow hopping..at the very least. He's worse with my boyfriend because he doesn't get onto him like I do..(he's learning the whole horse thing- he's a city boy) But anyway back to my point...
I took Prado out just now for about 30 minutes. We had one crow hop that I corrected him on and felt good..didn't get me worked up or anything which is huge because I'm still very unsure of myself on the ground. I've handled one horse with decent manners and I've handled lots of horses on the ground so I've really been "scared" for lack of better word on the ground. Sorry I'm rambling I'm just really worked up right now.
I was getting ready to take him back in when something caught his attention in the neighbors yard. When I looked I saw two men carrying a couch into the house. He started FREAKING out. I started talking to him calmly rubbing his head and neck telling him it was okay. I tried to walk him back to the barn but he was so focused on whatever was going to eat him he kept really coming onto me and throwing himself around to see what was over there. I'm thinking sh-- I'm alone and I'm trying to fumble for my phone because I want my bf to know I have him out here alone and hes spooking but I don't want to take my attention off of him so I don't get caught off guard when he runs right through me. He kept running around me in a circle to face that direction. I kept stopping with him and rubbing him and reassuring him in a calm low voice that everything was okay. He did not even know I was there. Then he started flinging his body everywhere like whatever was going to get him was coming at him from all sides. I knew he was going to run off. He kept flinging himself towards me since I was the only direction he could "escape". I got onto harshly once because I wanted his attention and when I tried to turn him to walk into the barn he flipped out even worse. Did a full on rear TOWARDS me and tried to run off. I held onto him and jerked his face but I still never gained complete control of the situation. I got him into his stall and his halter off and he's still freaking out.

What do I do in situations like this?
I'm afraid to walk him alone now :( .
The whole time I kept thinking I'm alone..he's gonna run through me and I'm gonna be laying here alone and no one will know. I'm really scared. I have to have him on stall rest for ANOTHER 3 weeks and I can't help but feel like this is going to get VERY dangerous. It makes me not want to walk him but I CAN'T do that..it's not fair to him. Not to mention what damage is he doing to his incision??

rant over. I'm sorry. If this doesn't make sense I'm sorry for that too.
Did I do something wrong?

[Horseaholic]

Not to mention my cat has been spooked for TWO days now...Idk if there is something in the air?? He's usually so bold and will not let me leave him alone and when he's with me he's constantly staring at the door and if anything "not normal" happens he pops up and gets really scared and uneasy just staring at the door. He does this in my bedroom and in the living room. He walks out of the door very hesitantly with me standing there with him.

[WashingtonBay]

Aw geeze... It's a bit of a perfect storm... young TB, stall rest, new place with new sights and sounds he hasn't explored and gotten familiar with.

You probably can get a prescription for some kind of feed through sedative that will take a bit of the excess edge off.

I would definitely own and use a stud chain when walking him. I like it under the chin, but wherever.

Ask the vet about the continued stall rest and whether some turnout is really a bad thing at this point.

Walk him inside other fenced areas in case he gets away from you.

Those are the ideas, not all compatible, that occur to me first.

[vicklynn]

I can understand your concern. You will be ok. Relax and breath hon.

If I may
Try working him on the ground in circles where he has to pay attention to you. Teach him to disengage that hind end. Teach him to back, and to back out of your space. Sensitize and desensitize.
Carry a lunge whip with you.
Does he know a lunge whip is a good thing? I should of asked that first.
When he comes at you, get his attention, tell him no and mean it. Back him up and push him off of you, even if it means the whip at his chest.
First and back to my initial statement, get his ground work done, then when you take him out on his walk, he will know that if he spooks that you are in control and that he has to pay attention to you, not what is going on else where.

[livaward]

I know it might not be fair to him being locked in a stall but it might be best for him with the major surgery he just went through.....

What are you feeding him? Maybe this is the reason for him acting like a tard....maybe we can change it to were it won't give him so much energy that he feels he needs to burn it off....

Next you NEED and MUST have his attention on you but I would be weary of teaching him this without causeing more stress on you and him both...

[vicklynn]

I guess I had no clue he was on stall rest. That dosnt help.
I agree with WB on the enclosed area

[Horseaholic]

WB I do have a stud chain on him. I have it over his nose. Does the chin offer more control? I really am not well versed on this stuff. I'm seriously considering a sedative now because is just getting worse and worse. I also feel like a little turn out may help him not be so amped up.

I've never lounged him Vick but I know that he has been and knows how so i would assume he knows a lounge whip. I wish I could lounge him SO bad. I feel like I'd really get my message thru that way but I can't lounge him for at least another 2 months. I've been trying my very best to be boss on the ground and mean it.

Idk if I mentioned that I even tried backing him up to the barn so he could still see the direction he was mainly concerned about but that lasted for about 10 steps and he stopped moving. So then after trying to comfort him I tried to turn him and he wasn't having that.

[Horseaholic]

yea I've got him on seminole senior wellness. He gets two scoops am and pm and farriers formula and brewers yeast pm.

I did just switch him back onto alfalfa (that's what he's always had) because he wasn't eating any of the tymothy from the T and A. He was acting up before the alfalfa as well. He's gone thru one flake of Alfalfa so far and I started him on it 2 or 3 days ago. I was worried about the alfalfa but it was my only option for the moment.

Yea Vick he had colic surgery. :(

[cowgirlup@idaho]

I don't think you did anything "wrong", you did the best you could and you were successful in getting him back in his stall :) Don't walk him alone until you feel more confident in yourself, only walk him if your bf is home. The rest of the advice is good and use what you can of that.

[WashingtonBay]

WB I do have a stud chain on him. I have it over his nose. Does the chin offer more control? I really am not well versed on this stuff. I'm seriously considering a sedative now because is just getting worse and worse. I also feel like a little turn out may help him not be so amped up.

Try it both ways... I think it's good under the chin and provides better release when you release it. Also when you give corrections with the chain... make them short little sharp corrections, not a steady pull. Don't let him lean on the pressure.... rattle it if he does and stop when he stops.

[Horseaholic]

they were even feeding him alfalfa at the hospital too.

[Horseaholic]

Try it both ways... I think it's good under the chin and provides better release when you release it. Also when you give corrections with the chain... make them short little sharp corrections, not a steady pull. Don't let him lean on the pressure.... rattle it if he does and stop when he stops.

okay will try. When I give a correction I always make it a short snap of a correction.

[cyb]

I would definitely own and use a stud chain when walking him. I like it under the chin, but wherever.

My farrier says to put the chain over the nose because under the chin would cause him to rear, I've never used one so I have no idea. She has owned several stallions.

[livaward]

Another thing you could do is disengage his hindquarters over and over and over and over.....a horse with no balance is a horse that can't run you over. Until his focus is on you and when he acts up do it again.......

[vicklynn]

Try it both ways... I think it's good under the chin and provides better release when you release it. Also when you give corrections with the chain... make them short little sharp corrections, not a steady pull. Don't let him lean on the pressure.... rattle it if he does and stop when he stops.
Over or under, which ever you use, I agree with WB on the short sharp corrections. No leaning. Make the chain count.

[WashingtonBay]

It doesn't cause them to rear, any more than over the nose would, really.

Where to put it is preference, certainly. Good people do it both ways.

When I use it, I do it under the chin. Over the nose I think it tends to bind and pull the halter crooked, and does not release when you do. Under the chin it releases better, and is a sensation very similar, in combination with the nose and poll pressures, to curb chains the horse may already be familiar with.

I do it like this.... (pics I took for a previous thread on how-to)

[gaited07]

WB has some of the best advice. I would also check into a mild feed in sedative to take the edge off.

[vicklynn]

I hear ya WB. I never used the stud chain on the side of the halter when I had it over the nose, cause it does pull the halter sideways.
What I did was, had it clip on the ring where the lead would clip, then go back through like it is suppose to. Need a long stud chain for that.
Only thing I dont like about using one over the nose is, it sags if ya dont wrap it around the nose of the halter at least once.
I like the way WB has hers set up.
As far as rearing. A correction is a correction and each horse responds differently, as with any training.
So, top or bottom will depend on your horse.

[Equine_Woman]

Sometimes a horse looses their mind. It's a bit scary when they do it. All you can do is try to reengage their mind on something your asking them to do and try to stay safe. TBs are notorious for that in my experience, especially stall bound TBs. I agree with the others, work on disengaging the hips, you could also work on sacking out. (Whenever Sonora is really freaked out it calms her down) I use a lung whip with a walmart bag attached to the end. I just shake it far away until she realizes it's not going to eat her then I work it all over her body. It helps her mind settle. The stud chain is important as well. Be sure it is actually in contact with his nose, not twisted over his noseband. I wish I was there!! Just remember, he may out weigh you but you out think him and mind is mightier than bulk in horses. He can't run away from you if you can disengage his hindquarters and move them away from you. Promise!

[CaddoCinnamon]

Something you might want to do is to cut his feed ration by half. feed him what you would in the morning but cut it into 2 feedings. This might help with making him less hot. He has a lot of energy because of being cooped up in a stall. Is your barn closed on all 4 sides. Something else you might want to ask your vet is is it ok for him to run in the aisle. My vet told me to put PT on stall rest for now because we don't want her to have it in the psture out in the snow. But I asked if it is ok for her to run in the aisle of my barn and they said fine. I would think since they have given you permission to hand walk him then letting him run in the aisleway would be alright. If under the chin doesn't work maybe putting it over his gums would work. When Cutter got shoed for the first time we had it over her nose it worked for a while when that stopped we put it under her chin and that seemed to work for a little bit. Once that stopped we put it in her mouth just like a bit and she chewed on it. It gave her something to think about besides what my farrier was doing. Eventually though we had to put it over her gums to finish the job. You don't have to use a lot of pressure to get what you are doing done. I would first put it in his mouth like a bit and see if that works. Something else though you might want to ask your vet about what to do mainly because he might know of something else that would be better. Don't take this the wrong way but with him being a TB you already have your work cut out for you. I like TB's but I have heard that when they get a serious injury or hve major surgery they are hard to handle. If you are not comfortable with handling him on the ground I would most definitely wait until someone there to help you. You won't do him or you any justice if you get hurt and gets away. Talk to your parents and see if they have a suggestion. That if you live with your parents. Maybe your dad could help you out. I hope these suggestions help. I would feed more hay and less grain at this point.

[Fjords <3]

I would definitely use a chain. I've had to use that for Angel a few times when she was spooking so bad and it did help. I always do it over the nose, but I'm sure it would be effective both ways. Reducing grain would probably help a lot too. I don't know if this would work, but could you lunge him before you take him out? Just to wear him out a little bit so that he wouldn't be so spooky. Every time I went to see Angel and especially right before riding I would lunge her and it made her much easier to handle.

Good luck, and I'm glad you didn't get hurt!

[JackieB]

Wow, sorry. That's a really tough situation. Give yourself credit for getting him back in without either of you being injured.

Do you have a really experienced horse friend who can help you walk him? At least for the next few times.

The idea is to get his mind focused on doing work for you (lunging, disengaging, etc.), but we know exactly what you mean when you say it was as if you weren't even there.

[natisha]

You're to walk him to keep circulation moving, right? I'd walk him up & down the barn aisle then back to his stall only. Tough love time. You've come too far to have something happen now. Put a radio in the barn so he can't hear things he can't see. Walking outside gives him a taste of freedom he doesn't need now & he's not healed enough to give him the discipline he deserves.
I agree to the sedation if he gets that bad. I would also slightly sedate him for his first turn out time alone. Not enough to make him groggy but enough to take the edge off. He may be one of those horses who does not live alone well.
You may want to think about running an add for retirement boarding. Those people are great, they love their horses, come out pet/groom & that's about it. He would have company that doesn't leave the farm.

[natisha]

I would definitely use a chain. I've had to use that for Angel a few times when she was spooking so bad and it did help. I always do it over the nose, but I'm sure it would be effective both ways. Reducing grain would probably help a lot too. I don't know if this would work, but could you lunge him before you take him out? Just to wear him out a little bit so that he wouldn't be so spooky. Every time I went to see Angel and especially right before riding I would lunge her and it made her much easier to handle.

Good luck, and I'm glad you didn't get hurt! Those are good ideas but he is on limited activity for now.

[Tiz]

First, he's acting like a horse. He spooked, no big deal. Remember, horses are mind readers, calm yourself and he'll be better. If you're freaking, he'll freak along with you. Laugh at him when he acts up. It works.

Take him off the grain.

Check with the surgeon who took care of him at UF, and see if you can give him Ace.

Check with your Doctor, and see if he'll prescribe some Valium.

That's all I've got!:2cents::greengrin:

[Horseaholic]

lol man could I use some valium!

I'm going to talk to my vet and see if we can put him on a sedative.

I do know a few experienced people JackieB but I don't really consider myself close enough with them to ask them to be with me. :/ We need a live video and I'll wear headphone and everyone on the forum can tell me what to do and what I'm doing wrong! ;)

He's calmed down finally. I stripped his stall with him in it and he was trying to love all over me.


thank you all for your advice. It truly means a lot to me.

[Horseaholic]

I would love to take him off the grain if he wasn't such a hard keeper. He looses weight sooo easily. If I took him off grain he'd disappear. :/

[Tiz]

Not on alfalfa. Free choice alfalfa, no grain.

[WashingtonBay]

We need a live video and I'll wear headphone and everyone on the forum can tell me what to do and what I'm doing wrong! ;)

All at the same time? Oh yeah - that would help calm you down ;)

[natisha]

Check with your Doctor, and see if he'll prescribe some Valium.

That's all I've got!:2cents::greengrin: The Valium? LOL

[Tiz]

No, wiseguy, advice. I do life straight! And before you say it, no, not straight up.

[OwnedByOurHorses]

Not to long ago I was where you are when Cash was rattle snake bitten. The in hand walking got to be a real chore. He went from a bomb could go off and all he would do is look at you with that why did you wake me up look to just the sounds of a bird chirping would send him into a whirl wind.

This is what our vet had me do for him

Cut his feed down to half
double his hay rations, except his alfalfa that was cut down to half a flake a day.
since they did want him to move around in the stall to keep cirulation going he added quitex to his feed daily as the sedative, said anything stronger and he wouldn't move enough on his own.
Still had to use the stud chain, you need to find out if over or under is going to be the way to get his attention with the quick snap of the lead

Removing the divider between stalls giving him a 12x24 stall help greatly.
If there is a way to remove the dividing wall of even adding a 12x12 pen to his stall that leads to the outside would help.

You have just moved him to new place strange things have happened to him and he is all keyed up. So don't blame yourself or get upset. YOU ARE DOING GREAT...just hang in there.

[OwnedByOurHorses]

Just wanted to add that Cash is a growing boy that was already skinny. Cutting the grain didn't hurt his weight due to we made up for it with hay

[Tiz]

He's a colic surgery. He should have something in his digestive system at all times. Alfalfa.

[natisha]

No, wiseguy, advice. I do life straight! And before you say it, no, not straight up.:p

[vicklynn]

Id have him on free feed grass hay...not alfalfa. Nothing wrong with a helping of Alf, but straight up all day long, nope. I agree on lessening his grain, but put that grass in front of him to keep him built up.

[Fjords <3]

Those are good ideas but he is on limited activity for now.

Oh that's right, I forgot about that :doh:

[gabhainn]

My farrier says to put the chain over the nose because under the chin would cause him to rear, I've never used one so I have no idea. She has owned several stallions.
that might be the single most ridiculous horse related statement I have ever heard, feel free to tell your farrier I said so. ..............Kevin

[JackieB]

Can Peyton visit with you for a few hours someday soon? I always do better when I have an experienced horseperson showing me what it is that I'm trying to accomplish. I'd be happy to pay for gas, buy a favorite meal, and send a small gift home with a friend who would help me in a similar situation.

[missdixie]

Wow I don't know what to say, sounds like you did your best. I wouldn't take him out alone, make sure your bf is there to lend a hand for awhile. In my experience horses on stall rest can be quite dangerous when let out.

[JackieB]

I really like the idea of a 20 something retirement horse to hang out with Prado. Generally speaking, horses do not like to be alone. Millions of years of genetic programmng emphasize that the one that gets isolated from the herd is doomed.

It's also easy for us to suggest that you calm down and be a stronger leader. You know that's what Prado needs, we know it's what he needs, but becoming that person is a completely different story. Even if you can stay outwardly calm, he's picking up on cues such as your heart rate, the look in your eyes, perhaps a scent you are giving off due to fear, etc. Only he doesn't know that you are worried just because he's being a dope. He probably thinks that you are just as afraid of that couch as he is. So, give yourself some credit as I mentioned before.

I'd cut the alfalfa out for sure. That stuff has a lot of energy in it.

Hang in there. I've handled a few horses like you described Prado as behaving and it is really, really spooky. So don't be too hard on yourself. Just keep working through this as calmly as possible.

[spotsmom]

Everybody has given you good ideas. What type of halter are you using? I'd try using a good rope halter.. my girls would go straight through me/over me with the chain when we first got them (and they're draft crosses so I definately couldn't stop them). But the first time they hit the end of the lead with the rope halter they all but sat down.

If your going to use a calming agent, check out SmartPak's SmartCalm Ultra. It's my vet's first choice (we used it while Cinn was on stall rest for tearing open her side, kind of like what's Palo's boy did). It works.

[vicklynn]

Ya, a rope halter may be an idea too.
I use rope halters on mine when they need it and it sure helps them remember.

[cheval]

I think you need to be working with someone that knows about horses ASAP. I think you are heading for an accident and that would be bad.

[Horseaholic]

I know about horses cheval....

I'm simply not confidant on the ground.

[cheval]

I'm just saying, that what I read about you and this horse is just ripening up for something to happen. You don't seem to have any confidence at all. The best way to get that is to work with someone that can deal with Prado's specific issues before either of you get hurt.

[Horseaholic]

I'm using a regular nylon w break away halter and a leather covered stud chain over the nose.

[Horseaholic]

I'm just saying, that what I read about you and this horse is just ripening up for something to happen. You don't seem to have any confidence at all. The best way to get that is to work with someone that can deal with Prado's specific issues before either of you get hurt.

If I'm doing something wrong I'd appreciate a comment on that. Not a comment saying I don't know horses...I've had a lot of bad experiences with crazy horses and I'm the first to admit that I've completely lost confidence on the ground. I know that what is taking place is dangerous..I've stated that as well. I've had to deal with A LOT of stuff all at once with my first horse. You may not be trying to be rude but I'm shot. I'm not afraid to ask for help and I know that I need it right now.

[cheval]

The comment is the comment you gave - you have lost confidence on the ground. I think Prado is picking up very mixed signals from you because of it and it could be a big reason he is acting out. I am trying to be straightforward with you so something doesn't happen, and I'm telling you, everything I read about you and this horse is leading that direction.

Don't let pride get in the way (if you are). Ask someone in person to work with you. They can see exactly what Prado is doing and help you out accordingly. Not only is this going to help Prado learn how to behave, but it's going to show you how to get there, and you are going to get your confidence back, which you badly need.

Continuing on like you are is a train wreck waiting to happen.

[Horseaholic]

I was beginning to feel confident. Considerably more than ever until todays incident when I realized I wasn't sure how to handle the situation. I tried my best and have no pride to swallow whatsoever. I just need to find someone willing to work with me.

[CaddoCinnamon]

You know Prado better than anyone but because you are unsure of yourself it will affect Prado. Keep your head and try even though you get nervous from the ground stay calm. I get that way when it comes to walking my stallion Sky. I get really nervous with him. I will be honest I don't have much confidence when it comes to studs but I am learning to handle him and he is learning to trust me that I am not going to let anything happen to him. Alfalfa hay will make him more hot. Ask your vet about a good quality grass hay to feed him that will keep him at a good weight. The feed even though it is a Senior feed it will still make him hot some what just because he doesn't get out and run freely. I would start by walking him in the aisleway only then once he is listening to you there then go to a roundpen and walk there. Slowly build confidence up with him. He has been there what 2 weeks now he is still learning the sights and sounds of what is around him. If you do walk him by yourself with noone home then make sure it is in a roundpen or a fenced off area on all 4 sides. I say this not because you may get hurt but because Prado will be easier to catch if he is in an enclosed area. You won't have to worry if he gets on the road or something like that. I believe you can handle yourself very well around horses if you just let yourself do it. You have the best intentions when it comes to your baby. When you walk him don't think about what might go wrong but on what is going to be good in it. One thing that helped me with Sky this is going to sound crazy but I just made up my mind and said that he is a she because I have all the confidence when it comes to walking my mares no problems and it helped. Crazy right. Find what will help you no matter how crazy it might be to someone else.

[cheval]

I was beginning to feel confident. Considerably more than ever until todays incident when I realized I wasn't sure how to handle the situation. I tried my best and have no pride to swallow whatsoever. I just need to find someone willing to work with me.

I really hope you can and I'm not joking when I say I am worried about you.

[Reinmaker]

I know about horses cheval....

I'm simply not confidant on the ground.

Michelle knowing that is half the battle, the other half is overcoming it and having the knowledge to apply it correctly.

Your lack of confidence is surely feeding his.

One thing I see is he doesn't respect your space. I don't care how spooked or scared a horse gets they must respect my space. He can flee, he can even explode but not on top of you. That is very concerning and could lead to a bad wreck.

Just today I was leading a colt (3 year old) out of the covered arena. We had some pipe panels set up with tarps on them to creat a barrier across the pen, because the outside portion is so wet. I angled one in and was walking between it and the wall of the arena (a pretty narrow space). This colt was already pretty concerned about the tarps on the panels flapping. That is why I was leading him out there so he could spend some time with them:). He freaked, jumped in the air and bolted past me, but you know what he didn't touch me. The thing that scared him most was on the other side of him and he should have fled towards me but he didn't because he repects my space. I am a worse scenario than anything else and he KNOWS it, even in a moment of panic. Now I am not saying accidents don't happen and horses don't lose all sense of what is around them on occasion, but what you are describing is a regular disregard for your space.

This needs to be addressed when he is calm. It is really hard to teach once the freak out begins. If the freak out does begin it needs to be nipped in the bud right then and there. I realize you have a special set of circumstances and a high energy cooped up horse. My suggestion would be taking the time on your walks when he is under control to set some ground rules and teach him about space.

Walk forward with him at your side (his shoulder should never pass yours) when you stop he stops and even takes a step back if he doesn't quick sharp corrections until he does. To the point he is backing up not just stopping. Yield his shoulders, and his hindquarters in hand. When you step towards him he moves, end of story. If he doesn't quick sharp corrections.

I also get the feeling you may not be being as demonstrative as you think in your corrections. He is a big powerful horse and if he comes toward you the end of the lead rope should meet his shoulder hard and you should back him off, your space should be his worst case scenario or you could be heading for a very bad accident. 9 times out of ten when people have pushy horses that crawl all over them we can correct that behavior in a day or two. It just takes the right amount of correction timed correctly and some general ground rules set forth when they are calm and somewhat paying attention.

Are you having to hand graze him? If you don't have to I would not do this at all. I don't really like hand grazing ever, but the only time it is allowable is with a horse that is extremely well behaved in hand at all times and has earned the right over time to get that priviledge. If he doesn't have a great respect for you hand grazing will only exacerbate the problem as he is dictating what happens on the lead.

[Horseaholic]

I always have him in a closed in area. My property is completely fenced.

I am hand grazing him..I've had him spook but he's never spooked into my space. He DEFINITELY does not respect my space. I've been working on it and he hates it when I correct him. Back him up..make him stop and stand still... change directions... smack him with the end of the lead ( I'm sure not as hard as I should)...Correct him sharply with the stud chain. Once I start to feel confident he does something that makes me uneasy again. I don't think that he's ever had good ground manners and being cooped up is bringing out the worst.

[cheval]

But keep in mind, it's not just being cooped up. You are part of the issue as well. And I think you can get past that, once you get some help.

[Horseaholic]

But keep in mind, it's not just being cooped up. You are part of the issue as well. And I think you can get past that, once you get some help.


You're right and once my heart gets pumping I do my very best to tell myself to get a grip. I got pretty far with this spook without getting worked up but once I started to it all went downhill from there. I kept talking calmly but my insides weren't calm.

[Reinmaker]

Well him hating it doesn't really change whether or not he should calmly comply. Trust me you aren't going to hurt his feelings. You will become the leader and he will respect you more. Him copping an attitude is a challenge. It is up to you how you handle it.

Your honesty about the situation and your feelings are all good signs. It means you know you need to work on it and are looking for ways to get better. That is to be commended and I am sure you have the ability to gain the confidence needed. :)

PS. I would really advise to quit the hand grazing for a bit unless it is an asbolute neccessity(meaning vets orders not that you feel bad for him).

[iluvbo]

Your honesty about the situation and your feelings are all good signs. It means you know you need to work on it and are looking for ways to get better. That is to be commended and I am sure you have the ability to gain the confidence needed. :)


This is exactly right. Dont let him know you are worried, horses detect that so easily. Good luck...thats a pretty pony you have there. :)

[Horseaholic]

Yea he's good at challenging me. It's strange though because he doesn't challenge me when he doesn't have a halter on. Idk If I'm more confident because I know I don't have to hold onto him if he acts up or what.

but thank you reinmaker I appreciate your encouragement.

I appreciate everyones encouragement and concern. I really do.

[CaddoCinnamon]

That is good that the property is all fenced in. Is there a way that your bf could video tape you and Prado on one of your little excursions. It is hard to say this way or that way because noone else is there to see what exactly he is doing. I will not say that you are doing something wrong because it sounds like you are doing what is right. I think it would help everyone here if there was a video of what is going on with Prado and you. Just a suggestion Michelle. I will be honest with you that is the biggest reason why I have never gotten a TB because I am not confident in handling them. You are much better than I would be. Going through this is going to help you when the next time that he decides that he is afraid. But honestly I think video would help. I am not criticizing you by no means I am just trying to help and give suggestions of what has helped me when I wasn't confident on the ground like you.

[cheval]

When I first got Solon he was over 16 hands, 2 years old and never been handled. The day I brought him over from the seller she tied him up to a hitching post, powerwashed him and he pulled the entire thing out of the ground. He was impossible to handle. For the next nine months it was a nightmare.

Even with my trainer, it was a constant battle. He drug me down the driveway, he walked all over me, he had no care if he stomped on me. I wondered which one of us was actually going to make it out alive.

I kept trudging on. With him the thing that turned everything around was he got a really bad abscess. Was completely lame for three days. I came out three times a day to soak his hoof. Something about that particular event made him see I wasn't the bad guy and after that he started listening. He still pulled his tricks, but he started listening. We started making progress.

I was still on edge, just waiting for something to happen. But once it got better, my confidence got better. He still spooks, but he never bolts, he never jumps toward me, he doesn't get into my space unless I'm lovin' and scratchin' on him.

So, it can be done. You have the heart and you love the horse. Just get some help, get yourself through this patch so you can move on.

[Horseaholic]

I'd like to video tape us so everyone can see. I'll see if I can do that soon.

I hear ya on the TB thing lol. I've handled some crazyy TBs but my first negative and worse experience was with a huge warmblood that HATED me for some reason and since then I've never really gotten over it.

[Horseaholic]

When I first got Solon he was over 16 hands, 2 years old and never been handled. The day I brought him over from the seller she tied him up to a hitching post, powerwashed him and he pulled the entire thing out of the ground. He was impossible to handle. For the next nine months it was a nightmare.

Even with my trainer, it was a constant battle. He drug me down the driveway, he walked all over me, he had no care if he stomped on me. I wondered which one of us was actually going to make it out alive.

I kept trudging on. With him the thing that turned everything around was he got a really bad abscess. Was completely lame for three days. I came out three times a day to soak his hoof. Something about that particular event made him see I wasn't the bad guy and after that he started listening. He still pulled his tricks, but he started listening. We started making progress.

I was still on edge, just waiting for something to happen. But once it got better, my confidence got better. He still spooks, but he never bolts, he never jumps toward me, he doesn't get into my space unless I'm lovin' and scratchin' on him.

So, it can be done. You have the heart and you love the horse. Just get some help, get yourself through this patch so you can move on.

Thank you Cheval. I know that I can do this. It's just gonna take time and I don't want to get hurt and I don't want him hurt either. My goal is to come out alive after all of this. :)
I hope we get through this quickly.

[Horseaholic]

and my first negative experience which crushed my confidence on the ground was in front of A LOT of horse people that I asked for help and everyone looked at me and turned away. It took everything in me to stop myself from crying and gain control of the situation and walk him out of the arena. So I guess that's part of the reason why I'm a bit reluctant to ask for someone to help me because the first time I needed it the most I got spit on.

[cheval]

Your avatar says a lot girl. Just hang in there.

[Horseaholic]

lol you're right. I've just got to get over it. ;)

[cheval]

and my first negative experience which crushed my confidence on the ground was in front of A LOT of horse people that I asked for help and everyone looked at me and turned away. It took everything in me to stop myself from crying and gain control of the situation and walk him out of the arena. So I guess that's part of the reason why I'm a bit reluctant to ask for someone to help me because the first time I needed it the most I got spit on.

There are dumbasses everywhere. They can't help themselves. And I know what you mean. I had Solon at the Clark County Fairgrounds and we were doing our medieval show. He'd had one of the idiot Friesians in our group ram him the night before and he was flat out scared to go in the arena. I was on top of him bareback and I couldn't get him under control.

Of course, the draft horse guys came out to watch and had a good laugh. Not one of them came over to grab his reins and help me get him calmed down. I was so angry and I was crying. Finally, Solon listened to me and I was able to get him back to his stall and I did the show on foot. It was his last show because I wasn't about to put him through that again.

Try talking to your local feed store, county extension office, 4-H groups, craigslist, local area horse forums to find a good person that has experience with TB's. There is someone out there, I promise. Just have some really good questions ready to ask them.

Have they dealt with TB's before?
What specific problems did they deal with?
What methods did they use?
What was their success rate?
Do they work with the owner/horse together?

It's too bad someone from here wasn't close enough to help you. Man if you were in Oregon, my trainer kicks major butt when it comes to working with all horse breeds and owners and especially problems.

[Horseaholic]

some horse people can just be so cruel.

I work at the local tack store. I'm thinking I'll ask a fellow employee/ new friend if she wouldn't mind helping me a bit. I've seen her on the ground with her PSYCHO beast of a haflinger and she's super confident and really really good with this nut case so I think she'd be able to help me. If not my coworkers SO who is head trainer at a racing barn may be willing to help me.

[JackieB]

I work at the local tack store. I'm thinking I'll ask a fellow employee/ new friend if she wouldn't mind helping me a bit. I've seen her on the ground with her PSYCHO beast of a haflinger and she's super confident and really really good with this nut case so I think she'd be able to help me. If not my coworkers SO who is head trainer at a racing barn may be willing to help me.


Good idea. My best horse friends (two of them) will always jump in to help me deal with a stressful situation and teach me how to handle it myself in the future. Very reassuring.

[cheval]

Don't laugh (and I know some people here will be rolling their eyes), but it may be of use to find a good animal communicator. SedonaThunder has a contact of one I believe that she has used. I used one when I was having some issues with Solon a few years back and I got lucky and got a really good person who was able to learn some stuff about Solon and tell me things that nobody but me knew. It's something to keep in mind. There are scam artists out there, but hey, it could be a benefit!

[cheval]

If not my coworkers SO who is head trainer at a racing barn may be willing to help me.

THAT would be perfect I think!

[Horseaholic]

Don't laugh (and I know some people here will be rolling their eyes), but it may be of use to find a good animal communicator. SedonaThunder has a contact of one I believe that she has used. I used one when I was having some issues with Solon a few years back and I got lucky and got a really good person who was able to learn some stuff about Solon and tell me things that nobody but me knew. It's something to keep in mind. There are scam artists out there, but hey, it could be a benefit!

not laughing. I'll keep it in mind.

[JackieB]

and my first negative experience which crushed my confidence on the ground was in front of A LOT of horse people that I asked for help and everyone looked at me and turned away. It took everything in me to stop myself from crying and gain control of the situation and walk him out of the arena. So I guess that's part of the reason why I'm a bit reluctant to ask for someone to help me because the first time I needed it the most I got spit on.

You poor thing {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

We've all been in this same situation at one time or another, unfortunately. Sometimes over and over again. The best we can do is hope that these people will see the error or their ways and promise never to be like that ourselves, even if they are the very ones needing our help.

But you can get beyond this with time and experience. And we'll be here to cheer you on!

[Horseaholic]

thank you JackieB you're always so kind and encouraging. It means a lot to me.

[JackieB]

thank you JackieB you're always so kind and encouraging. It means a lot to me.

You're most welcome. I'm glad that you find my comments helpful.

[vicklynn]

Oh no...horse people can be SOOO rude.
I am sorry you had to deal with people like that.
That picture in my mind was to vivid and seemed like a painful moment for you. ((HUGS))

It just makes my skin crawl when others think they are so much better than someone else.
I need help in areas, and love to find different information out about things.
If people dont agree, its ok, it dosnt make one better than another.

Thing that bothers me about people though is, when they dont take proper care of their animals
IE, shots, worming, shoes, ect, say they know stuff, ask for advice, then turn around and do the same crud again. Im not talking about what you are going through. You are better than that!!

[Horseaholic]

Thanks vick. Unfortunately I remember those moments far too well. Not to mention after the entire ordeal happened one of the people who neglected to help me walked over to us and spoke to this nutcase of a horse in a baby voice that his reins were broken and gave him a treat.

I promise NEVER to be like those people.

I think someone who isn't willing to admit there is still room to learn is someone who's setting them selves up.

You'll see one of these days I'll be confidant and strong on the ground with any horse.

[mandisue]

I agree with what ever one else is saying advice wise, I'd cut the alfalfa, he gets hungry enough, he'll eat grass hay, and definitely cut his feed down a bit. He may lose a bit of weight, but as long as he doesn't DRASTICALLY lose and you can handle him for the time being it at least may help.

Also recommend a rope halter, I use one on my 12 year old mare because she won't load, and I've used one on all our young horses.

[Peggy Sue]

Cut the senior in half and replace it with something without grains... think beet pulp or rice bran. Free choice hay and stall toys to keep him busy.

[MyMia]

That was so scary, and I wasn't even there to experience it! Isn't it (kind of) funny what sets them off sometimes? Those other horse people should be shot--so rude to not help you when you needed it!

You've gotten some great advice; I really can't add to it except to say that I hope you can build up your confidence and show him who's boss. The only thing I'd thought of (and I'm not sure how much good it'll do) was lead him with a long leadrope or even a lunge line, so if he freaks out again, you can let some out to get him away from you but still have hold on him. The biggest potential problem with it I can think of is getting it tangled up, either by you if you panic or him if he charges toward you.

Also, I had a question (and sorry if I missed if you mentioned it already), but when something "scary" catches his eye, does he stop to look at it before freaking out? I thought maybe if you let him look at it, he'd see it was nothing and calm down, as opposed to trying to make him move past it. I know he should listen to you no matter what, but maybe for now (since he is too excitable) just looking will help take care of any problems before they begin. When he's seen it's not a horse-eating whatever, you could continue on your walk.

I hope you figure something out that will help! Good luck!

[gabhainn]

I agree with what every one says,but I want to throw in one twist. I wouldnt get just any rope halter. As much as I hate to plug anybodies personal line of tack, I really, really, really like CA's rope halters, they are a little thinner, a lot stiiffer, extra pressure points, and a lot more "bite"........Kevin

[JackieB]

I agree with what every one says,but I want to throw in one twist. I wouldnt get just any rope halter. As much as I hate to plug anybodies personal line of tack, I really, really, really like CA's rope halters, they are a little thinner, a lot stiiffer, extra pressure points, and a lot more "bite"........Kevin

I really agree with Kevin here. I love my CA rope halter and it's such an effective tool when I need one. On the other hand, I've seen other rope halters that I was sure would be ineffective. I'd go straight to his website and get one.

[Horseaholic]

Mymia I did let him look at if for a few minutes while I pet his neck and told him everything was fine. He finally looked at me and when I turned him to walk away he focused back on whatever it was and that's when all the trouble started.

I started to reduce his grain this am. He does have some toys too.

I know that the rope halters at my work aren't stiff which is why I didn't purchase one. I'll check CA's out.

[vicklynn]

I agree on the rope halters the guys are talking about. Mine is a Chris Cox one though. Works great!
I did buy one at a tack store, but only after looking for MONTHS for the right one. You cant just find a good rope halter.

[JackieB]

You'll see one of these days I'll be confidant and strong on the ground with any horse.

And nobody will be happier for you, and prouder of you, than me.

I absolutely believe that you have a chance to reach your equestrian goals. You are a humble and willing student. I just think you've had some bad experiences with poor teachers, and admittedly difficult horses. Some of those horses in New Jersey sounded pretty spooky to me.

Prado is just dealing with healing, being cooped up, new surroundings, etc. But as others have pointed out, none of this gives him permission to enter your space.

I'll be looking forward to the update after your co-worker with the haffie comes out to help you. Get some video for us too if you can get your boyfriend or someone to take it. I've gotten fantastic advice from this forum after posting videos.

[Peggy Sue]

I love my CC halters as well.

[NE_paint]

I would definitely own and use a stud chain when walking him. I like it under the chin, but wherever.


I agree! Whenever he gives you any grief- any at all, jerk that lead line and make him back up 4 or 5 steps. Let him know that acting that way gets him in trouble. He'll become more focused on you and know where his boundaries are. He needs to know that YOU mean business and that YOU ARE the boss and the final word. It will take some work, but keep at it. It is worth it in the end to have an obedient and enjoyable horse.

[Reinmaker]

I love my CC halters as well.

Color me shocked and amazed. ;):) Just yankin your chain peggy.:p

[IrisGreen]

I agree with the rope halters just never leave one on unattended but I'm sure you already knew that. I use one on Muffin and he's pretty light in hand and he's a big young stud. It has a wrapped nose band with extra nose knots. I got it off Ebay for cheap, it also has rings attached to the sides for side pulls or reins.

I understand your lack of confidence. I have the same problem but mine is in the saddle not on the ground. I notice a lot of people are better with one over the other. There's a lot of people down at the stables I noticed were fine in the saddle but there horses were a whole different story in hand and they just avoided leading them anywhere because they didn't have the confidence to address the ground work so they just rode them instead. Then there's the ones that would lead there horses around but you never see them riding them. I think there's a lot of people that avoid there issues instead of admitting them and trying to become a better horse person. It's not easy to face your fears or admit you have low confidence but it's a huge step to get over them! :)

I'm much more comfortable ground handling a problem then I am in the saddle. That's where I have to work on my confidence and it's not something you just get in one day, it takes focus, determination and grit to get out there and overcome your fears to get one step closer to becoming the horse person you know you can be.

You will get there, you already did a great job of controlling the situation with him and getting him into his stall. Yeah, you were scared and he wasn't paying attention but you were thinking the whole time about what to do next, how to get him in his stall, how to stay safe and keep him off of you. You should be proud of yourself for finishing what you started even if it scared the heck out of you. You know you can do it again so if it happens again you will be more prepared to handle the situation and bring forth that horse woman you know is inside you.

You've received some great advice from others and I think working on the respecting space will do wonders with him. I've had to get after Muffin for forgetting I was there and I wasn't afraid to spank the fur off him for thinking he could get away with not paying attention. Under saddle is a whole other story though, that's where I need to work on my confidence..... I know we will both get that confidence and experience in time. :)

[CaddoCinnamon]

I know where you come from. Caddo's mom Cinnamon when I got her she was a wreck and she was my first horse to own by myself. She was nervous and jumpy but because of the abuse that she went through. When I got her I was about to give up because for months I couldn't do anything with her and no matter how easy I approached her she got scared and if my husband came to her she turned her butt on him in a minute. He got kicked by her the first week I had her it was a little kick that all she did was rattle the change in his pocket. She hated men and I didn't blame I had been in her shoes before. The thing that makes me the maddest about horse people is that sometimes they are the ones that stab you in the back. Instead of helping you they hinder you. It makes me so mad sometimes. What I was saying though about Cinnamon is that my supposedly horse friends knew the problem with her and instead helping me they came out to watch fireworks I could of easily been hurt by her but for some reason when everyone had given up on her I made a determination there with her that come death or high water we were going to succeed. I worked her and showed everyday that no matter what situation I put her in I wouldn't abandon her like everyone else had. That mare became my rock and since her I have had several people bring me horses that have had similar problems. I don't charge them because my reward is when they come back to me and say that horse has changed. You will get through this it will take time and it is something that is not going be fixed over night. You know my so called friends one day asked if I could help them round up the stud that had gotten loose. There was 10 altogether to try to round up this stallion. They sent me out alone I think just to get me out of the hair. So I went the way they told me to go by myself. Did you know though the direction they gave was exactly the direction of the stallion. He jumped out in front of us it scared me and Cinnamon. I did not ride her toward him. He had never seen Cinnamon so I knew that he would want to introduce himself I was hoping that didn't mean a breeding. He allowed me to walk Cinnamon in front of him and I got him back to the barn and he followed. I tied her up and got him in a stall and waited for everyone else to get back. He was in a stall for 2 hours before they came back. They asked me why I wasn't out looking for the stallion with a smile on my face I told him to go look in his stalls. He was surprised that I had gotten him back. The thing is Cinnamon helped me to build my confidence up. Prado will to just give it time and you both will be confident. Sorry that this is so long Michelle. You can do anything you want to as long as you keep a cool head and believe that you can.

[Horseaholic]

thanks ya'll :)
I called my friend and she may even come out tonight. She's bringing a rope halter.

I'll keep ya'll posted.

[Horseaholic]

I took Prado out just a bit ago for a very short, very close to the barn walk. I had my crop this time and he listened SO much better. After having a hissy fit because I was making him think he actually started responding and really paying attention to me. We backed, turned, stopped and got to graze a bit after listening to me. He seemed happier after I put him back in the stall. He's a horse that really truly likes to be ridden and I think one he realizes that ground work is work too he'll start to enjoy that too.

I feel good! it's small but a big step for me. :)

[JackieB]

I feel good! it's small but a big step for me. :)

Are you kidding? It's huge!!!!!! Any kind of progress toward regaining confidence that has been severely shaken is a big deal. Great job!

[CaddoCinnamon]

Great job Michelle!!!!! Like jackieB said any improvement is great. It helps to build your confidence up.

[Horseaholic]

:D thank you thank you.

[Tiz]

I'm glad you thought of the crop. Great tool for keeping them off of you, isn't it?

[jeezitsjacki]

I just had to put my 9 year old Tb on stall rest so I know what you are worried about. I would use a chain as you are doing, and start doing short walks, and when he behaves go longer to reward him. I would only let him graze when he is behaving. Also definately look into a sedative. My vet said that if ben gets worked up she would prescribe him a sedative, so that is an option. We can go through this together haha!

[TBgirl]

You've gotten some good advice Michelle!

Congrats on having sucess with him tonight! :)

I have had 2 Off Track Thoroughbreds that I retrained from the track, so I know how TB's can be (any horse at times...I don't mean to stereo-type but it's true TB's can have more energy). I like the idea of you carrying a crop with him when walking. He needs to respect your space, no doubt. I am against feeding treats out of hands and I also am not too fond of hand grazing as reinmaker said. I wont let my horse rub her head on me or any of that...no way. She tries pushing on me...I push her back harder and she knows I mean business (same goes for that horse that tries to nip when being saddled or etc.). They go to bite at my side, they catch my elbow.

Just a few suggestions to help you...
I'm sure your anticipating him acting up before he has these freak outs because well, it's nerve wracking! The thing is though..if your already getting nervous he's going to sense it and feed right off of it (you know this). Try hard to go out there being confident!!...even if you have to change your mindset to angry to take that control back. When you lead him keep your eyes straight ahead...forward on. Don't even look at what he's freaking at or feed into that.

Also, it may sound silly but laughing does help! Whenever my mare spooks I talk out loud to her "it's a cat Cherry...give me a break" and I'll laugh while correcting her. I know these freak outs where Prado is jumping around you are more serious then a simple spook...but I'm just saying if you start laughing over his nonsense...it will help YOU in the long run.

Best of luck! I hope you can keep working him on the ground and gaining back respect. I know it's hard with him on stall rest right now.

[Tiz]

Through this event, and all of the ensuing advice, remember.....You got the horse back in his stall, and you handled the situation. It occurred to me that you may have forgotten to give yourself credit for that. That's how confidence is developed, so......

[Equine_Woman]

Excellent! Glad tonight was better!!! You should like you demanded respect tonight and he gave it!!!

I was thinking of you today while handling my horses. And While I'm VERY confidant on the ground it takes just one overactive hyper/spooky horse to knock even my confidence. So don't be too hard on yourself. You've turned your fear into a game plan!! They say that's a good use of emotion!!

[outriding01]

Hey, I just found this thread (I was in Tampa with no computer this weekend). Let me know if I can help out at all. I can come out and help you work with Prado if you need it. And you cab always call or text if you're having an issue. Congrats on the improvement though, that's a big step. Don't be afraid to get angry and pissed with him when he's acting up. Calm is obviously the preferable emotion, but if it's between angry and freaked, go with angry. It usually takes the place of freaked pretty well ;) Itll keep your mind a bit clearer....

[Horseaholic]

thanks peyton. I may take ya up on that :). Well, most likely if you don't mind. lol

The girl from work backed out. I just don't think she's comfortable. :/

I've taken him out a few times since I last posted and things have been going pretty well. I don't get worked up I just get maddddddd. He gets mad and I don't let off. He got nasty when I went to take him in and mannn was he pissy. Got back in his stall and charged me while I was closing the stall door. I flipped. I flew into that stall and made him so uncomfortable with my presence. Didn't hit him or anything just made him do the moving. I told him not to make a single move. He'd look at me and I'd tell him to not even think about it. After he stood there for a minute and took a deep breath in I walked out of the stall and stood there for a bit. He slowly looked over at me so I nicely told him to come. He came verrryy slowly to mama and then started licking me. I'm making progress with myself. Still need a lot of work but I'm making progress.

[JackieB]

That sounds like good progress, Horseaholic. I'd definitely take Peyton up on her offer. I'll bet she could teach most of us a few things about how to work with challenging horses.

[Tiz]

There you go, Boss Lady. No more quaking in your boots. That's good!

[CaddoCinnamon]

There you go.

[Horseaholic]

There you go, Boss Lady. No more quaking in your boots. That's good!

:) you made me laugh :)

[vicklynn]

Dang girl you scared the crud out of me too....vick runs away...awwwwwwwwwwww