This might offend people... [Archive] - Page 2

Fjords <3

02-16-2010, 06:08 PM

I agree as well. I'm 16 and I wear a helmet every time I ride, unless of course it's for an uber short distance. I was always taught to wear a helmet every time I ride. I've heard of too many injuries and deaths that have happened because someone decided that they didn't need to wear a helmet. I used to get mad about wearing one, not that long ago, because it looked funny and all the western riders that I watched on TV never wore them. But I've learned. I had never fallen off a horse before then, and now I have numerous times. I can definitely see the benefits now. I fell of Angel once and landed on my knee and head. We were going fast enough and I hit hard enough that I know for a fact I would have had a concussion if I hadn't been wearing a helmet. I will never let a child, mine or any others, ride a horse that is my responsibility without a helmet. The guilt would be riding on me if something happened.

Thanks for saying something, this really is an important issue.

JackieB

02-16-2010, 06:10 PM

Me too. I hope I haven't contributed to it's "cat fightishness" in anyway :(

You definitely haven't. At least not from my perspective.

There is one aspect of "nice" arguing that you may want to keep in mind, though. I'm not saying that this argument has gotten to this point yet, but it's something that I learned much later than I wish I would have, and that's when to bow out, even if you feel that you're right and have more to say.

Many arguments turn really nasty when the facts and opinions have all been established, each side has its firmly-held position, but neither side will back down an inch. Again, I'm not saying that this agument is to that point at all, but there is a certain amount of grace in being the one to back off and end with your audience wanting a little more from you instead of becoming tired of listening to you continue to argue.

When I decide that I've gotten to that point of an argument, I don't say anything, I just back off and let the argument go.

Rabid_Raccoon

02-16-2010, 06:15 PM

Thanks for saying something, this really is an important issue.

Thank you for saying that. And I'm glad you wear a helmet :)

Kevin, thanks :) That means a lot coming from someone who doesn't necessarily share my opinion.

JackieB- Thank you, and I know what you're saying about the time to back down. I almost did that a couple times in this conversation, but just when I was thinking about it things started to cool down. This thread has gotten long, so I'm sure a lot of forumers are getting sick it it :D I'll try not to drag it out, but I want to be sure everyone is able to share their opinions.

WashingtonBay

02-16-2010, 06:18 PM

:headscratch:

oK I am a little confused about how a perfectly normal topic for discussion turned into such an angry, ugly, unfriendly conversation.

We invited people to it? :coffee: horse people in particular...

I understand why people are touchy... but I've read a few helmet threads before. I don't want to stifle it really, as long as people come back to even before the end... It's a touchy subject... people ought to know that and treat it like one. Sometimes you have to touch the hot pot before you know it's hot.

shewasmyshadow

02-16-2010, 06:27 PM

We invited people to it? :coffee: horse people in particular...

I understand why people are touchy... but I've read a few helmet threads before. I don't want to stifle it really, as long as people come back to even before the end... It's a touchy subject... people ought to know that and treat it like one. Sometimes you have to touch the hot pot before you know it's hot.

Or as you so daintily put it one time... Weemen being Weeemen. :D Or something like that... :p

I guess + a few men this time.

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 06:29 PM

gabhainn

02-16-2010, 06:32 PM

Kevin, thanks :) That means a lot coming from someone who doesn't necessarily share my opinion. .
you are welcome just because we dont agree doesnt mean we have to hate each other. just think how boring life would be if everybody thought the same thing all the time.
While I do not agree with you, the fact that as an admittedly nonconfrontational person, you had the guts to state something you were reasonably sure was gonna draw fire, that is strength. Too many people these days lack the courage of their convictions. its nice to see somebody that has them, state them and then take the shots and keep on plugging. It is like the relationship I have with Jackie B we dont see eye to eye politically and I doubt we ever will, but I dont dislike him, in fact I value and respect him all the more. Just as I do you.....Kevin

gabhainn

02-16-2010, 06:34 PM

I just don't think people should make it so personal. I'm not going to argue with someone who's point is FU. .
yeah I didnt quite get that either............Kevin

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 06:35 PM

yeah I didnt quite get that either............Kevin

I love that we agree Kevin!! We get to do that so rarely and I like you bunches! lol Can you tell I helped with a 4 year old's valentine's party today? Lol.

HoustonFarrier

02-16-2010, 06:35 PM

Not necessarily, Steve. One of the really nasty things about head injuries is that you don't have to hit your head very hard to get a concussion. So a blow, even against sandy earth, that might have caused a concussion without a helmet definitely may end up with no injury at all with a helmet. A blow that cracks the helmet may lead to a concussion, but not a fractured skull.

It's all physics. The shell of the helmet and foam padding inside helps dissipate the energy before it gets to the skull, fluid around the brain, and then the brain.

Unless you land on your face.

Steve

prissy18

02-16-2010, 06:36 PM

I had something fired at me and I tried my hardest to not fire back. Rabbid and I have talked. I am sorry for any hurtful words I may have said.

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 06:37 PM

Unless you land on your face.

Steve

Well I can only do what I can do. Better to protect 7/8 of my kid's head or 3/4 of his head than none in my eyes.

WashingtonBay

02-16-2010, 06:43 PM

HoustonFarrier

02-16-2010, 06:44 PM

Well I can only do what I can do. Better to protect 7/8 of my kid's head or 3/4 of his head than none in my eyes.

You do the best you can do with what you have available, and you should. The big point I am trying to make is there is better out there. A full head helmet with a face shield is better, and it exists, why not use it?

Put another way, which is a better helmet for safety....an equestrian helmet or a DOT rated full helmet with a face shield?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong...only YOU can do that....I'm just putting a rhetorical point there to ponder:) This is in NO WAY calling into question your parenting skills, so don't take it that way.

Steve

WashingtonBay

02-16-2010, 06:46 PM

You do the best you can do with what you have available, and you should. The big point I am trying to make is there is better out there. A full head helmet with a face shield is better, and it exists, why not use it?

Because it's not comfortable to wear, particularly in summer? There is a point where the protective gear becomes so much we need a draft to carry it..

Knights in shining armor come to mind :)

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 06:47 PM

You do the best you can do with what you have available, and you should. The big point I am trying to make is there is better out there. A full head helmet with a face shield is better, and it exists, why not use it?

Put another way, which is a better helmet for safety....an equestrian helmet or a DOT rated full helmet with a face shield?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong...only YOU can do that....I'm just putting a rhetorical point there to ponder:) This is in NO WAY calling into question your parenting skills, so don't take it that way.

Steve

I get what you are doing. Do you think a kid can see and ride as well in a helmet with a face guard? I know the bull riders ride in them but it's far more likely that they are going to get stepped on and they don't really need to see a ton of anything that's not RIGHT in front of them. . . I'll admit that if I thought he could ride as well in a full helmet I'd be all over that but I don't and I think he is safer in an equestrian helmet.

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 06:48 PM

Because it's not comfortable to wear, particularly in summer? There is a point where the protective gear becomes so much we need a draft to carry it..

Knights in shining armor come to mind :)

Hmm. . ..armor. .. . hmmm. . . I could get a percheron if I got him armor. . . .hmmm. . wonder if there is a joust club in the area. . . wonder how heavy armor for a 4 year old is? And wonder if I'd have to mortgage the ranch?

HoustonFarrier

02-16-2010, 06:48 PM

Because it's not comfortable to wear, particularly in summer?

I have to wear one when I ride my scooter:p So, no whining !!! LOL

Steve

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 06:49 PM

I have to wear one when I ride my scooter:p So, no whining !!! LOL

Steve

Hmmmm!! Motorcycle gear!!! My kid COULD ride in motorcycle gear. . . do you think you could ride a horse at speed in motorcycle gear Steve? Does it come in youth sizes. . .?

gabhainn

02-16-2010, 06:50 PM

they don't really need to see a ton of anything that's night RIGHT in front of them..
and just when it was looking up we have to disagree again a bullrider does need to see whats in front of him he needs to watch the bulls head to give him an idea of where he is going next...............Kevin

miatapony

02-16-2010, 06:51 PM

Hmmmm!! Motorcycle gear!!! My kid COULD ride in motorcycle gear. . . do you think you could ride a horse at speed in motorcycle gear Steve? Does it come in youth sizes. . .?

Yes it does!

HoustonFarrier

02-16-2010, 06:51 PM

I get what you are doing. Do you think a kid can see and ride as well in a helmet with a face guard?
Well, motorcycle riders have to wear them, and we need to see far more than any kid or grownup on a horse has too :)

Skydivers have to wear them, and we need to see allot more than any person on a horse.

Peripheral vision is not a problem in them.

Steve

HoustonFarrier

02-16-2010, 06:53 PM

Hmmmm!! Motorcycle gear!!! My kid COULD ride in motorcycle gear. . . do you think you could ride a horse at speed in motorcycle gear Steve?
I'd bet money I can :D Wanna bet me :D

Does it come in youth sizes. . .?
Yes !

Steve

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 06:54 PM

and just when it was looking up we have to disagree again a bullrider does need to see whats in front of him he needs to watch the bulls head to give him an idea of where he is going next...............Kevin

True true. You're right. . . so maybe I need to get my kid a bull riders helmet. . .and if he really rides bulls like he wants to I will. But for now a horse riding helmet will work for riding horses. Now if June Bug turns into a bronc I'll reconsider!

AppyLover

02-16-2010, 06:56 PM

I just don't think people should make it so personal. I'm not going to argue with someone who's point is FU. I don't even think that should be implied on here. It's as good as cussing in my eyes. . . I just stop reading when I see that.

yeah I didnt quite get that either............Kevin

I don't like to see it either.

I spoke out of anger and will not take it back.

Normally on the whole helmet issue I am civil and will give an argument to them being a security blanket for people who should not be riding at levels they force themselves to ride at.

But when someone tries to blanket a statement that bad mouths parents for not putting a helmet on their child and then blames them for being Bad parents? No one gets in between me and my child. I am a Good Parent so think what you will I stated my opinion “profanity” and all.

I don’t down anyone EVER for wearing a helmet or putting one on their child so to be attacked for my choice to not to, of course I am going to take it personal.

cheval

02-16-2010, 07:00 PM

Well...you own a Percheron...soooo...:hysterical::hysterical: (running to put a helmet on...) :D

Steve

Yeah, you'd better put a helmet on mister! I'll bonk you with one of my swords!

And speaking of that. This is the only helmet I put on my head:

http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/43481/2868683210102561126S500x500Q85.jpg

WashingtonBay

02-16-2010, 07:00 PM

I spoke out of anger and will not take it back.

I understand completely. I also don't want this forum full of foul language, abbreviated or not. Mad or not. I'm sure you understand that.

jeezitsjacki

02-16-2010, 07:00 PM

prissy18

02-16-2010, 07:02 PM

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 07:03 PM

I think you'll make your point better by staying calm and rational. In a debate you win more points by not making it personal. Like I said, I completely disregarded your entire post because of the language yet my opinion of the 'young' people you were attacking jumped immensely because they didn't rise to the bait. I thought that showed a lot of maturity to be so personally attacked and not make it personal.

gabhainn

02-16-2010, 07:06 PM

I spoke out of anger and will not take it back.

Normally on the whole helmet issue I am civil and will give an argument to them being a security blanket for people who should not be riding at levels they force themselves to ride at.

But when someone tries to blanket a statement that bad mouths parents for not putting a helmet on their child and then blames them for being Bad parents? No one gets in between me and my child. I am a Good Parent so think what you will I stated my opinion “profanity” and all.

I don’t down anyone EVER for wearing a helmet or putting one on their child so to be attacked for my choice to not to, of course I am going to take it personal.
if you noticed I too am a parent who doesnt put helmets on my kids, so we are on the same side. I didnt let her off easily or even mildly, but I didnt resort to the f bomb abbreviated or not.....Kevin

AppyLover

02-16-2010, 07:07 PM

“If your child is under 18 and riding a horse, it is YOUR responsibility as a parent to make them WEAR A HELMET. To not do so is to put them in danger and is unacceptable, in my opinion. ESPECIALLY when they are a toddler or younger. YOU are in charge of their safety. Start acting like it. Be a parent.”

I am, however, trying to attack the notion that it is okay for parents to let their children ride horses without helmets. It makes me incredibly upset to see children or toddlers on horses- saddled or bareback, loose or on the lead line, stallion or mare- without a helmet. Some of these children are too young to understand the concept of a helmet. They can’t make this decision, and are completely reliant on you, their parent, to make that decision to protect them for them. Don’t let them down.

If I see other adults riding without helmets, I think “well that’s their descision”. But you know what? Three year olds, seven year olds, hell, 14 year olds are not capable of making that decision. By law, you as their parent are told to make that decision for them. So when I see children riding without helmets, and their parents thinking this is okay, I want to say something. I need to say something.

If everyone here gets angry at me, but I make one parent get a helmet for their child and make them wear it, it will have been worth it.

Please keep your children safe. You may think "it would never happen to me, my horse is too good, my child is a great rider." But you know what? It could happen. It does happen. Is the possibility of saving their life worth the extra price and inconvenience of buying and making them wear a helmet?

I must have seriously misread her intentions in the original post….

(And yes WB, I will watch my tongue.)

jeezitsjacki

02-16-2010, 07:07 PM

I agree 100% completely with EW and I am only a couple years older than the young people and I think they were both very mature

Rabid_Raccoon

02-16-2010, 07:08 PM

Many arguments turn really nasty when the facts and opinions have all been established, each side has its firmly-held position, but neither side will back down an inch. Again, I'm not saying that this agument is to that point at all, but there is a certain amount of grace in being the one to back off and end with your audience wanting a little more from you instead of becoming tired of listening to you continue to argue.

When I decide that I've gotten to that point of an argument, I don't say anything, I just back off and let the argument go.

I feel like some of us are going in circles, rehashing the same insults and arguments. For now I'm going to be quiet. If something new comes up, I'll definitely offer my opinion. However, I don't want to keep repeating myself over and over again. Your opinion has been noted, AppyLover. Thank you for contributing to the discussion. :)

cheval

02-16-2010, 07:10 PM

cheval

02-16-2010, 07:11 PM

I dont think anyone is telling you how to parent, we are all stating our opinions as you are, whether we are pro or against helmets on children. We are all stating what we believe. I dont think rabid was telling you how to parent at all. I dont even see where she told anyone that they need or should make their child wear helmets, she is just saying how she feels, as did you

We must have been reading her posts differently then. One of the reasons it made me irate was her (and others) thinking it was their business to say what other parents should be doing.

WashingtonBay

02-16-2010, 07:12 PM

(And yes WB, I will watch my tongue.)

:) That's all I ask...

And FWIW, Rabid, on the 'round and round' issue... I'm sure it feels that way to you, but not everyone was here earlier or has had a chance to respond yet. So to some extent, you do have to give new people the courtesy of dialogue for at least a little while, the conversation just started for them. :)

Rabid_Raccoon

02-16-2010, 07:16 PM

:) That's all I ask...

And FWIW, Rabid, on the 'round and round' issue... I'm sure it feels that way to you, but not everyone was here earlier or has had a chance to respond yet. So to some extent, you do have to give new people the courtesy of dialogue for at least a little while, the conversation just started for them. :)

For the record I was talking about members who had been involved in the discussion from the begining. But, you are right, and I will try to accommodate people who are new to the discussion :)

cheval

02-16-2010, 07:16 PM

So you'd rather no one else continue to contribute.

Rabid_Raccoon

02-16-2010, 07:18 PM

See my above post, Cheval.

Rabid_Raccoon

02-16-2010, 07:19 PM

I will also respond to any new ideas, not just new people :) I just don't want to waste forummers' time by repeating myself over and over :P

cheval

02-16-2010, 07:25 PM

I did read it. You said you were talking about those who have been in the discussion since the beginning.

All4Grace

02-16-2010, 07:39 PM

not to poke the dragon here but I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me WHAT there reasons for not putting a helmet on their kids are. I personally don't understand it, to me it just makes sense but I want to understand why and I would love the parents that choose not to have the kids in helmet to enlighten me.

I would also like someone to enlighten me as to why they think helmets throw then off balance again a statement I don't understand.

I know I am not a big poster any more but I'd really appreciate some enlightenment from those who feel so strongly about non-helmet wear.

Forgive me if I did miss anyone's explanation, if you did infact respond let me know and I'll try to find your post. Everything kinda get's mushed together after about 15 pages :D

jeezitsjacki

02-16-2010, 07:41 PM

I think thats what a lot of us have wanted to know all4grace, not just you

cheval

02-16-2010, 07:42 PM

I'm not sure what you guys are looking for by continuing to ask why. If someone doesn't think their kids need it that should be good enough.

cheval

02-16-2010, 07:44 PM

I think thats what a lot of us have wanted to know all4grace, not just you

I answered it.

jeezitsjacki

02-16-2010, 07:44 PM

we have just all heard reasons for wearing helmets so we want to understand the other side of things

cheval

02-16-2010, 07:46 PM

One of the reasons I had mentioned somewhere back in this novel was that I didn't grow up wearing one and I wouldn't make my kid wear one (I don't have kids, just my niece). Then people got off on a tangent about the old guard and some other stuff.

Maybe it is just a mindset. Doesn't make it wrong.

AppyLover

02-16-2010, 08:14 PM

Hey Grace,
I believe that helmets are a security blanket for doing things on horseback you normally would not. And I believe they are not as safe as they claim to be. I want my child learning how to ride, and not be reliant on a piece of equipment to ride. Hope that makes sense.

not to poke the dragon here but I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me WHAT there reasons for not putting a helmet on their kids are. I personally don't understand it, to me it just makes sense but I want to understand why and I would love the parents that choose not to have the kids in helmet to enlighten me.

I would also like someone to enlighten me as to why they think helmets throw then off balance again a statement I don't understand.

I know I am not a big poster any more but I'd really appreciate some enlightenment from those who feel so strongly about non-helmet wear.

Forgive me if I did miss anyone's explanation, if you did infact respond let me know and I'll try to find your post. Everything kinda get's mushed together after about 15 pages :D

Tiz

02-16-2010, 08:19 PM

Geez, Cheval, just feel like a fight tonight?

I had no idea helmets, yay or nay, was such a big issue. They don't prevent concussions. I know this because I got my first concussion last fall, wearing a helmet. I even had amnesia for the event. Wow, that was weird. Maybe I would have been croaked without it though, who knows?

RR, the first paragraph of your OP, is judgmental, no doubt. AppyL, out of Prozac again?

Anyone else want to be annoyed? Let me know, I'll be there for you too.:p

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 08:35 PM

Hey Grace,
I believe that helmets are a security blanket for doing things on horseback you normally would not. And I believe they are not as safe as they claim to be. I want my child learning how to ride, and not be reliant on a piece of equipment to ride. Hope that makes sense.

See if you had come in with that statement you would have gotten far in my opinion. It is your right to decide what your kid does. Just out of curiosity Do you think people who put helmets on their kids are babying them? I still feel (and I do wish everyone felt) that it's better to give all the protection I can around horses. I expect my kid to learn to ride the same with a helmet as he would without one. I boot my horse up for a ride, I helmet my kid up for the same ride. . it's just one extra layer of protection that may or may not be in the right place at the right time. Without it, it will NEVER be in the right place at the right time. . . And no I don't think less of you as a parent. I just wish we agreed on this. I know for a fact 100% that you love your child as much as I love mine and having them wear a helmet doesn't change that.

AppyLover

02-16-2010, 08:40 PM

See if you had come in with that statement you would have gotten far in my opinion. It is your right to decide what your kid does. Just out of curiosity Do you think people who put helmets on their kids are babying them? I still feel (and I do wish everyone felt) that it's better to give all the protection I can around horses. I expect my kid to learn to ride the same with a helmet as he would without one. I boot my horse up for a ride, I helmet my kid up for the same ride. . it's just one extra layer of protection that may or may not be in the right place at the right time. Without it, it will NEVER be in the right place at the right time. . . And no I don't think less of you as a parent. I just wish we agreed on this. I know for a fact 100% that you love your child as much as I love mine and having them wear a helmet doesn't change that.

No I do not feel that parents who put helmets on their children are babying them, I do feel it is all in parenting style. I feel I am keeping my child safer with out one but you feel your child is safer with one. Who is to say who is right? No one can because even though we are two very different parents we are both doing right by our children, so who could really ask for more?

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 08:43 PM

No I do not feel that parents who put helmets on their children are babying them, I do feel it is all in parenting style. I feel I am keeping my child safer with out one but you feel your child is safer with one. Who is to say who is right? No one can because even though we are two very different parents we are both doing right by our children, so who could really ask for more?

Fair enough and thanks for that.

AppyLover

02-16-2010, 08:45 PM

You are welcome EW.

oursarge

02-16-2010, 08:54 PM

I applaud both of them for their responses. They didn't mean anything with what they said, but when you pointed it out, they immediately understood why you were offended and apologized. Good job, RR and Prissy.

I agree Jackie B. I might have come on too strong in the beginning but it's a word that bothers me so bad it hurts. I was happy to see their responses and appreciate them very much, I think I did thank them, if I didn't I do now.

It's used so often now nobody thinks twice about it but I just think of the people it hurts. Our nephew had alot of problems in school, he's challenged in learning and we saw how the words hurt him to the point he didn't even want to live anymore. Thankfully they got him counceling, he moved away from here and he's doing wonderful now. A fresh start for him changed his life. We're all so happy for him, right now he's building a log cabin [mansion in my eyes, it's HUGE] in the most beautiful spot in Montana I think. He was horrible learning reading, writing etc but give him tools and he works magic. It was very scary with him for awhile though because of what he went through. I think if some of the people who called him names stopped and realized what they were doing they wouldn't have done it. Not saying the girls are calling anyone names but again it's just that word that has become part of a vocabulary of so many. I do thank them for understanding and apologizing. I know they didn't mean any harm but yet I felt the need to point it out.

OK back to the helmet discussion which I already answered. I wear mine unless I forget! I don't have kids so I don't know what I'd do, probably give them a helmet 'til they could decide whether they wanted it or not. I have to agree with Dakota though, the few times I did ride without a helmet it did feel freer. I also hate hats, I don't wear hats normally and I always feel like the strap is choking me but I still wear it.

Country Girl 43

02-16-2010, 09:01 PM

Equine_Woman

02-16-2010, 09:18 PM

Rabid... did you have swing sets at school when you were younger?

Have you ever climbed a tree? Have you ever gone down a steep slide on a playground?

Have you been to any water parks and gone down the water slides??

I'll get to my point when you have answered. ;)

I'll answer as well since I'm one who feels kids should wear a helmet. I did all those things. I also got a head injury on a slide, fell off a jungle gym and was rushed to the hospital, I've been kicked in the head by a horse and gotten a skull fracture, as for the water slides there were life guards . . . what is your point? Riding horses is not like any of those things. The jungle gym isn't likely to trip and fall. . . the tree is also not likely to fall with you or shake you off. . . sure gravity can do that but it's not as unpredictable as a horse.

gaited07

02-16-2010, 09:21 PM

I chose to have my daughter wear a helmet due to the rocky terrain we have here but there are times that she and my boys when they were younger did not wear a helmet while riding in the arena.
It was my choice and I felt confident in my decision to not have them wear one while walking around in a circle of well padded ground.
Later on it became a rule of the barn where we boarded at and I as a good boarder, followed the rules and made sure my daughter wore her helmet at all times.

I do have to add that I really don't see them as "protective" as they are suppose to be or advertised as. I see a Styrofoam with a plastic cover. Not too much for protection in my OP!

I don't feel that ANYONE has the right to judge or place claims of safety concerns on parents who are NOT parents. Those who believe in helmets are fine and leave it at that, speak your mind but DON'T JUDGE OTHERS and DON'T CLASSIFY THEM AS BAD PARENTS!!! When I first read this thread my blood boiled and I was offended about the accusations made by RR and "bad parents" not taking the responsible actions to protect their children!!!
We as parents do our best to keep our children safe, happy and free from harms way as much as we can, but we can not place our children in bubbles to keep the TOTALLY safe from the woes of life.

Oh and I have add, my kids ride bikes with NO HELMETS, roller blade with NO HELMETS, climb tree's, swing, climb mountain sides, rocks, um you got it, NO HELMETS;)

outriding01

02-16-2010, 09:26 PM

Normally on the whole helmet issue I am civil and will give an argument to them being a security blanket for people who should not be riding at levels they force themselves to ride at.

I wear a helmet nearly every time I ride. I don't believe I am riding at levels I should not be riding at. Maybe I am wrong and should stop with the Level 4 jumpers and go back to crossrails? I wear a helmet to provide some protection, which I believe is better than none at all, even if it's not perfect or complete. Maybe I'm just a big wimp and need to stop breaking baby warmbloods and riding problem horses and showing IHSA on horses I have never seen before with no warm up....

I don’t down anyone EVER for wearing a helmet or putting one on their child so to be attacked for my choice to not to, of course I am going to take it personal.

I feel like your statement above is just this. Otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered to defend my use of helmets because, as you'll see below, I don't care what people do with their rugrats.

On the whole helmets on children issue, if I had a kid (which I hope to God I never do), it would wear a helmet.... Other people's kids, I don't give a flying squirrel's butt what they wear or do or ride as long as they don't cut me off or spook my horse. If they fall off and crack their head open and die or just bounce around and pop back up, I could really care less. Not my kid, not my problem unless they hold up a ring for a ridiculous amount of time because an ambulance has to be called and they have to be back boarded and braced and all that fun junk (it's happened and it pisses me off.) But other than those issues, I really couldn't care less...

ownedby7horses

02-16-2010, 10:29 PM

I haven't read the whole thread because I just don't have the patience to wade through 16 pages of arguing one vrs. the other. To me, it's up to the individual person what they'll do with their kids. My kids wear a helmet most of the time, but there have been times where they haven't. Do I believe I'm a bad parent for that? NO! I wish society would take a seat and stop trying to dictate what we should or shouldn't do with our kids. I know that most people mean well, but it's frustrating for me as a parent to feel like I always have to answer to someone else about what's allowed for my kids and what's forbidden for my kids. No offense helmet wearers, but it's not your business whether I make my kids wear helmets or not.

I don't give a flying squirrel's butt what they wear or do or ride as long as they don't cut me off or spook my horse. If they fall off and crack their head open and die or just bounce around and pop back up, I could really care less. Not my kid, not my problem unless they hold up a ring for a ridiculous amount of time because an ambulance has to be called and they have to be back boarded and braced and all that fun junk (it's happened and it pisses me off.) But other than those issues, I really couldn't care less...

What the hell kind of a thing is that to say? No offense, Outriding, but holy rude. Don't forget you were a kid once to and you didn't start out such a great rider I'm sure. Everyone starts at the bottom and builds their way up, it's just how it goes. Do you really not care if a child gets hurt riding a horse? I don't know about you but I would love to see more people get into the sport of riding and when you have attitude like is demonstrated above, it tends to keep newbies away from horses because they're scared to make mistakes and they're scared to approach people with the experience (like you) and ask questions. I hope that I just read that wrong because it's late at night...I hope.

outriding01

02-16-2010, 10:47 PM

Nope, I actually really sucked when I first started. And I had a really pissy pony that dumped me on my butt at least twice a week, but I wore a helmet and managed to only get really hurt once. Whether that was due to the helmet or not, I don't really know, but it never hurt. Basically, if a parent isn't going to put a helmet on their kid for whatever reason, I'm not going to worry myself about it. At best, I'll just be giving myself extra stress that I don't need. At worst, I'll get an earful about how I'm young and stupid and don't have kids so I don't know what I'm talking about. I will add that when I teach minors, I require them to wear a helmet. Every single one of my kids wore a helmet every single time they got on a horse this summer, no excuses. They all had a goos time and none of them died from wearing the helmet. I do also believe in teaching safe horse handling and good, solid basics and don't think a helmet is a substitute for that. We only had two falls, and one jumped off for some reason I never quite understood....
I would hope from my history on here that it's obvious that I have no problem helping people out and enjoy it because I do it often. I probably am being a little too harsh and callous, but that's generally how I actually am in real life. I don't show it often on here for fear of offending people who don't get me, but it doesn't seem like I can rile many more feathers than this thread has already done. It kind of freaks me out that people can get so upset about something so trivial. I agree with you however, it's a very late night....

ownedby7horses

02-16-2010, 10:51 PM

I'm sorry outriding, I am exhausted! Thanks for the clarification though and it's definitely appreciated. I can understand callous, it just sorta shocked me when I read that one part! Over and done with though!

*shake hands?*

outriding01

02-16-2010, 10:58 PM

Of course, thank you for asking for clarification rather than blowing up. I have no problem explaining myself. If I did, I wouldn't be that harsh in the first place ;). And I understand exhausted, lol. I'm pulling my second, consecutive all-nighter...

Country Girl 43

02-16-2010, 11:03 PM

I'll answer as well since I'm one who feels kids should wear a helmet. I did all those things. I also got a head injury on a slide, fell off a jungle gym and was rushed to the hospital, I've been kicked in the head by a horse and gotten a skull fracture, as for the water slides there were life guards . . . what is your point? Riding horses is not like any of those things. The jungle gym isn't likely to trip and fall. . . the tree is also not likely to fall with you or shake you off. . . sure gravity can do that but it's not as unpredictable as a horse.

My point is.... ALL of the above mentioned things could result in a bad head injury or worse. No... trees can't fall over on you, but falling out of a tree and landing on your head can kill you. Swing chains can break and launch a child in the air. All these things are unredictable. But parents do not make their kids wear helmets when doing those things. :confused: Why not??

as for the water slides there were life guards
This doesn't matter.... when kids are riding horses, there are usually adults around.

My kids wear helmets when we are on the trails, for the same reasons as Gaited07 stated. They will also wear a helmet in the arena if we feel the need or if they want to. But either way it's still our choice. People shouldn't PUSH the helmet issue on anyone. It's the parents choice one way or another.

I would never try to tell any parent that their child doesn't have to wear a helmet, so I don't expect people to tell me that my child should wear one.

Outriding... put things a little harsh about how she feels about other peoples kids... :innocent: but she is right. She chooses to wear a helmet, but she is not going to preach to me or any other parent that their kids should be wearing one.

lacyloo

02-17-2010, 12:51 AM

If I had kids I would most likely make them wear a helmet if they are 10 or under. Depending on the child's size and the horses. Thats just MY PERSONAL preference.

But that doesn't mean I look at pictures online and think " OMG that kid needs a helmet, ignorant parents!!!"
Thats just wrong...

People that preach about helmets are always going to look down non helmet wearers.
People that dislike smoking are always going to look down on smokers.
People the dislike tattoos are always going to look down on people with tattoos.
ETC...

These debates will never end.

allie0

02-17-2010, 03:46 AM

Just caught up there and read the 15 or so extra pages.. wow.
You guys talk a lotttt while I sleep haha

Pinky

02-17-2010, 04:30 AM

I would also like someone to enlighten me as to why they think helmets throw then off balance again a statement I don't understand.
I wrote about issues with my balance from a snowboarding point of view - I've not been on a horse with a helmet for 3/4 years now.
I learnt to snowboard, do tricks and spins without a helmet. Balance is a delicate thing - if I'm just going to fly down a mountain getting straight airs, fine - a helmet shouldn't matter then. It's when you're only just landing back 7's without a helmet that a helmet becomes a problem.
Your shoulders and head initiate the spin - where you look is where you go. If the helmet I wear (the one I 'prefer' to wear covers the whole back of my head and neck) means I turn my head a tiny bit slower, I'm more likely to fall. The more likely I am to fall, the more likely I am to injure myself.

If you know how to fall, the need for helmets is reduced. They don't become redundant, just less necessary.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 04:32 AM

Just caught up there and read the 15 or so extra pages.. wow.
You guys talk a lotttt while I sleep haha

LOL my thoughts exactly!

i have a few irrelevant points to throw in. country girl 43 said back there trees can't fall on you... which isn't all that true, throw unpredictable wind speeds, diseased trees or damaged limbs and such factors into the equation and you have a much more alarming view of climbing trees...

which is the point you were making anyway i think, so i'm just trying to strengthen that particular argument. actually i did have a tree branch fall on my head while i was riding once, probably would have hurt too if my horse hadn't ducked sideways (so it only glanced off the side of my head!). trees are evil ;) and i think my pony is actually more predictable than trees. though i accept this statement is slightly insane.

and

a few pages back Cheval posted a pic of lord of the rings shrine and helmet.

WOW. i am officially jealous haha! just wow!

and the little armour debate. i've always wanted to wear chain mail etc and play around pretending to ride into battle!

back on topic, i do agree with the security blanket theory, it sums up nicely one of my thoughts on the subject more succinctly that i had been able to, so thanks for that!

just because you choose to wear a hat doesn't necessarily mean that you are riding out of your ability, but it may make you more likely to take an unnecessary risk, by thinking you are safer than you are. personally i wear a hat on my youngster simply because it gives me an (in my opinion irrational) sense of confidence, which improves his confidence and generally makes everything a bit better (yay for psychology!). However, I rarely wear one on my older pony...

i also think kids should learn to fall properly. it's something i notice, riding establishments fear legal action so much (very understandably) they are reluctant for any risks (e.g. bareback / games) to minimise falls etc. But it is by throwing myself off my horses back for fun (because i am peculiar like that!) and by doing slightly daft things that i learnt to fall properly. this doesn't mean i can't fall badly in future, but in the past it has definitely helped me! i do understand the attitudes here and the fear than by mucking about, kids could hurt themselves. but i also feel it's making people less proficient riders. which would i suppose lead to the question of whether being a proficient (or more proficient) rider is worth that risk. which i think is up to the individual?

this isn't really on the hat debate, to be honest, as the presence or absence of a hat wouldn't really affect the "mucking about" issue, but it is, i think, related. so i hope that is ok :)

cloedoll

02-17-2010, 04:47 AM

If a parent who had lost a child due to an injury that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet posted to this thread, how would everyone react?To whomever posted this, I get what you are saying, but that is life. Many children, adults, everyone, are lost to even the day-to-day tasks. For example, I walked into my garage after coming back from my friends and there was a thin sheet of ice outside my door, slipped and fell on my ass. I'm sure some aren't as fortunate as me, and end up slipping, cracking their skull, and dying. I know that was blunt, but that is the truth. Death happens everyday in the simplest of ways from just living life! You can't avoid that. But just because there are these risks, it is not like we are going to live in a padded room for the rest of our lives. And I'm sure you are thinking, helmets are a precaution and it can't hurt to take precautions...I agree with that. We all should completely take precautions if we can for whatever situation! But, if there are any young kids that moms wanted to prop them up on their first "pony ride," I doubt they'd just literally plop them up there. I'm sure they would only let their kid have their first "pony ride" or "pony sit" in the safest and supervised environment. If you were referring to kids learning to ride w/o helmets, I am sure if they were at a lesson stable it would be mandatory to use a helmet until you are x years old.

If you are wondering, I'm 16, but have been riding on and off without a helmet, on a slightly unpredictable pony, since I was 13. Whenever I'm not wearing a helmet, it is not because I think they're ugly...I actually find my helmet to be quite cute. :p

(oh, the dirt is not from falling, it is from my helmet collecting dust over the winter and me not cleaning it lol)
http://i50.tinypic.com/14lhtz8.jpg

I guess what it comes down to for me is it is up to the individual (or young individual's parents or barn owner) if there child is going to be wearing a helmet or not, not anyone elses. I understand you just want to express your concern because you love us, but I can guarantee you that everyone on this board is well educated on the benefits of a helmet, that it can save your life, and you should (in many people's eyes) be wearing one at all times. So I guess that is why I'm confused why you posted this thread? It is a very hot topic on forums, YouTube, whatever, and that is why I am confident when I say that we've heard it all before...but in the end, the decision is up to us...or a kid's mom.

Also, I don't like fights/arguments either...so this post isn't intended to be mean or anything...I'm just stating my opinion like everyone else and really don't want to argue it out lol. I think everyone on this forum already has their mind made up about their opinions on this topic, so post your opinion and we can all decide for ourselves instead of trying to convince one another why we are the ones who are correct.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 05:24 AM

To whomever posted this, I get what you are saying, but that is life.

That was me (4,000 pages ago haha).

I just don't get what the big deal is about helmets. If they can help save a life, or prevent a more serious injury, why not use them? No one has been able to tell any of us why they feel helmets should not be worn by kids. And the "off balance" argument is BS, I've been using one all my life (34 years) and I'm no more or less balanced than I ever was. Look at the pro-jumpers. do any of them look like they're being inhibited by their helmets?!

I'm guessing if a parent loses a child because he/she was not wearing a helmet and the ER doctor says "this could have been prevented if they were wearing a helmet" that parent is going to feel pretty sh!tty.

But, I also have to agree with Outriding. Not my kids, not my problem. If a kid gets hurt or worse because he/she isn't wearing helmet it will not make one bit of difference in my life.

FWIW, I'm really disappointed in how some of the adults here are behaving themselves. This was a heated but mature conversation, and the teens participating have handled it really well. It was never directed at one specific person, but a few people took it that way and just started attacking, cursing and generally lashing out. I'm not a frequent poster here but i am a lurker. And for the most part this forum seems really supportive of the younger crew—how is that setting an example?

Pinky

02-17-2010, 05:39 AM

And the "off balance" argument is BS, I've been using one all my life (34 years) and I'm no more or less balanced than I ever was. Look at the pro-jumpers.

As I said..

I wrote about issues with my balance from a snowboarding point of view - I've not been on a horse with a helmet for 3/4 years now.

I don't like helmets on me. I find them uncomfortable, hot and just generally not nice. If someone wants to wear a helmet, I won't judge them for it - it isn't my place. In the same vein, if someone doesn't wear a helmet, I don't care.
Individuals make choices that others will not always agree on. It's the price we pay for being humans and forming our own opinions.

Live and let live :).

NJrider

02-17-2010, 05:43 AM

I wasn't talking specifically to you, I know you were talking about snowboarding! There was MANY people who said it threw them off balance!

You're an older teenager, right? Then I feel it's totally your right to wear one or not. I've been talking about kids—who are not old enough to rationally make the judgement call for themselves.

Dakota Sunrise

02-17-2010, 05:54 AM

To whomever posted this, I get what you are saying, but that is life. Many children, adults, everyone, are lost to even the day-to-day tasks. For example, I walked into my garage after coming back from my friends and there was a thin sheet of ice outside my door, slipped and fell on my ass. I'm sure some aren't as fortunate as me, and end up slipping, cracking their skull, and dying. I know that was blunt, but that is the truth. Death happens everyday in the simplest of ways from just living life! You can't avoid that. But just because there are these risks, it is not like we are going to live in a padded room for the rest of our lives. And I'm sure you are thinking, helmets are a precaution and it can't hurt to take precautions...I agree with that. We all should completely take precautions if we can for whatever situation! But, if there are any young kids that moms wanted to prop them up on their first "pony ride," I doubt they'd just literally plop them up there. I'm sure they would only let their kid have their first "pony ride" or "pony sit" in the safest and supervised environment. If you were referring to kids learning to ride w/o helmets, I am sure if they were at a lesson stable it would be mandatory to use a helmet until you are x years old.

If you are wondering, I'm 16, but have been riding on and off without a helmet, on a slightly unpredictable pony, since I was 13. Whenever I'm not wearing a helmet, it is not because I think they're ugly...I actually find my helmet to be quite cute. :p

(oh, the dirt is not from falling, it is from my helmet collecting dust over the winter and me not cleaning it lol)
http://i50.tinypic.com/14lhtz8.jpg

I guess what it comes down to for me is it is up to the individual (or young individual's parents or barn owner) if there child is going to be wearing a helmet or not, not anyone elses. I understand you just want to express your concern because you love us, but I can guarantee you that everyone on this board is well educated on the benefits of a helmet, that it can save your life, and you should (in many people's eyes) be wearing one at all times. So I guess that is why I'm confused why you posted this thread? It is a very hot topic on forums, YouTube, whatever, and that is why I am confident when I say that we've heard it all before...but in the end, the decision is up to us...or a kid's mom.

Also, I don't like fights/arguments either...so this post isn't intended to be mean or anything...I'm just stating my opinion like everyone else and really don't want to argue it out lol. I think everyone on this forum already has their mind made up about their opinions on this topic, so post your opinion and we can all decide for ourselves instead of trying to convince one another why we are the ones who are correct.

Good post, Caitlin.:) I agree 100%.

Oh, and a little off topic but your helmet is really cute!:p What kind is it? Mine makes my head look huge, lol.:rolleyes: But I actually really like the style of your helmet.:)

Pinky

02-17-2010, 05:55 AM

I wasn't talking specifically to you, I know you were talking about snowboarding!
Sorry!:doh:

I'm 16 - I've not worn a helmet since I was 13, apart from where I was required by the owners to do so (maybe 10 times).
For children, I think it's up to the parent to make the decision for the child. If the parent doesn't agree with helmets, it would be hypocritical for them to force a (possibly) unwilling child to wear one.
It all comes down to choices and balancing risk. Do I think someone is a bad parent for making their child wear a helmet? No. Do I think someone is a bad parent for not making their child wear a helmet? No.
Do I care? ....well, no.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 06:09 AM

Do I care? ....well, no.

Hahahaha, have to agree with you there!

I should add... if it were about vanity I'd really be in trouble. I saw a mirror last night and realized I looked like a mushroom! Maybe a new helmet is in order soon...

Pinky

02-17-2010, 06:23 AM

I look pretty much the same :p (I'm on the right).
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs160.snc3/18764_104472266240602_100000334887383_117401_45357 77_n.jpg
That is so not a flattering picture :innocent:.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 06:28 AM

Nah, you look cool! I always wanted to learn how to snowboard :)

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 06:37 AM

Okay this thread has gotten so long. I didn't read every post but I just wanted to say this...

I totally agree RR. I always wore a helmet growing up and I can't tell you how many times it saved my life. No joke....

I think it is very irresponsible for parents not to make their child wear a helmet. No horse is totally bomb proof. I think it is ridiculous to say you shouldn't force a kid to wear a helmet if they don't want to...Kids don't want to do lots of things. You make them wear a seat belt...Also it is the law to wear a helmet in GA while biking or riding a motorcycle. I know that isn't the case here in KY which is crazy to me.

I know you can't protect your child from everything, but there are some things that could be prevented. I was watching the little britches rodeo and these tiny little kids were cantering the horses down and jumping off while the horses were still running. Some weren't wearing helemts. The one got tripped up and went under the horse. It was not pretty.

Tatesgram

02-17-2010, 07:05 AM

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 07:13 AM

I don't think she was attacking peoples parenting at all. Yes people feel strongly about it, because they don't want a child to get hurt because the parent didn't feel a helmet was needed. And I have seen that happen on many occasions...A so called bomb proof trail horse flipped out and dumped a little 4 yr old at a show. She was hurt and after that they required children to wear helmets in western classes.

When you become an adult it is your choice...I will still continue to wear a helmet, but I am not going to judge someone if they choose not to.

There are laws about wearing helmets while riding a bicycle. Most requiring them for children under 18 or 16. Why should horse riding be any different? I don't ever hear about people feeling like their parenting is being judged when their child has a wear a helmet while riding a bike.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 07:43 AM

And I may offend someone, but it appears that the ones that are pro helmets have a little superiority attitude going. You wear a helmet? Good for you, I don't and I don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else.

HERE HERE.

I am regularly called to account for the fact I'm not wearing a hat, even by strangers whilst I'm on trail rides. DESPITE the fact that I am an adult in the eyes of the law, and I am probably more informed than those presuming to criticise me. grrrrrrrr

All4Grace

02-17-2010, 07:46 AM

Thank you to all whom answered my question! :-D

Country Girl 43

02-17-2010, 07:47 AM

I don't ever hear about people feeling like their parenting is being judged when their child has a wear a helmet while riding a bike.

ummm... yes there were comments on that too in this thread. :rolleyes: We don't make our kids wear helmets when they ride their bikes and I don't expect someone to judge my parenting because my kids do not wear helmets when they ride a bike. Again, it is my choice as a parent what my kids do or don't do.

WashingtonBay

02-17-2010, 07:49 AM

I don't think she was attacking peoples parenting at all.

Then I don't think you realize "it is very irresponsible for parents not to make their child wear a helmet" are FIGHTIN words to parents. You can't say "no offense intended" and then say "but you're an irresponsible parent". It doesn't lessen it.

There are laws about wearing helmets while riding a bicycle. Most requiring them for children under 18 or 16. Why should horse riding be any different? I don't ever hear about people feeling like their parenting is being judged when their child has a wear a helmet while riding a bike.Thus enters the slippery slope argument... we already have so many other nanny laws, why not this one?

OK - Kids can't even drink alcohol till they're 21. Why should we let them drive cars at 16? Is it really even safe enough to require helmets for riding bicycles for kids? Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to ride on roads at all. I saw an accident with a kid and a bike and a car and it 'wasn't pretty'. I think kids should be prevented from riding either bikes or horses till they're 18. Maybe even 21. It would be safer. And safety is paramount.

:)

Rabid_Raccoon

02-17-2010, 07:50 AM

Towards the argument that children are safer without helmets because they will take less risks: A child could be walking around in a very safe, enclosed arena, and their horse could spook/trip and they could be stepped on. That has nothing to do with the mentality of the rider, or the risks that they take, but a helmet could still save their lives.

As for the “not my kid, not my problem” argument: I am not like that. I can’t be like that. I value every human life, whether I know the person or not, and I want to see every person get the best chance at life they can have. That is one of the main reasons I want to be a social worker, is to help people who no one else is helping (NOT that I’m saying parents who don’t put helmets on their children aren’t good parents and no one is “helping” those kids, I’m just trying to explain the mentality I’m talking about). So for me, that argument doesn’t work. It doesn’t matter if they’re my kids, or kids I’ve never met before. If they crack their heads open and die, I will be distressed. I’m not saying that those who don’t care as much about kids they don’t know are wrong or bad people, there are definitely pros to not being as sensitive as I am and we need people like that, but that mentality just doesn’t work for me. It’s not who I am. I respect the differences in our personality, though.

Tiz: “I had no idea helmets, yay or nay, was such a big issue. They don't prevent concussions. I know this because I got my first concussion last fall, wearing a helmet. I even had amnesia for the event. Wow, that was weird. Maybe I would have been croaked without it though, who knows?”

I did get a concussion in a helmet years ago, and had amnesia for the event, as written in my original post. However, without the helmet I would have died.

Tiz: “RR, the first paragraph of your OP, is judgmental, no doubt.”

My apologies, I understand how it could sound like that. I would like to make it known that I see myself as a generally open minded person, and a nonjudgmental, accepting person. However, on some issues, like child safety and what I believe could save children's lives, I get passionate.

I tend not to have many convictions that I will take a stand on because I can see both sides of the issue and don’t want to judge one as “wrong” and one as “right” (on many things, I don't think it's my right to judge that), but when I do feel convicted about something (as I do with this issue), I feel very strongly about it. I understand how my OP could have sounded judgmental as I wrote it out of passion and distress and didn’t wait until I was completely calm to go back and make it less “offensive” (as some people see it, although I purposefully did not attack any certain people, just certain ideas), but I wish you would understand that I’m not usually this vehement about things.

This being said, I don’t take back a word I have said in this entire conversation. This is something I feel strongly about, and I will stand by my words, even if they upset people. And yet, I still respect the people who disagree, because they're just standing by what they believe, too. I don’t respect the action of not putting a helmet on your child, but I respect your reasons for doing it, and I respect you as a person who made that decision. Does that make sense? I hope so.

Gaited07: “When I first read this thread my blood boiled and I was offended about the accusations made by RR and "bad parents" not taking the responsible actions to protect their children!!!”

I strongly resent the use of quotes when I never once said the words “bad parents” when referring to parents who don’t make their children wear helmets. Inferred? Maybe. It depends on how you read it. But I never said that, so please don’t write quotes around it to make it sound like I did. I would rather not have words put in my mouth.

As a matter of fact, I believe if you search this thread you’ll find that the words “bad parents” were used only by the people arguing against helmets, or by people arguing for them when quoting others. At least, I know I never used them. I’m not trying to attack you, but please don’t make it look like we’re calling you names when we’re not.

Tatesgram: “it appears that the ones that are pro helmets have a little superiority attitude going.”

I’m sorry you feel that way, but that’s not what I feel at all. Like I said, I wrote that message out of love and distress. My intentions were good, and came from caring about kids, not to bash specific parents who don’t make their children wear helmets, call them names, or even argue with them.

RipSpark… I agree.

gaited07

02-17-2010, 07:53 AM

Well, I've read every post and I can tell you, this thread is more about parenting and judging parents then it is about helmets. It's been made very clear by both sides that it is no one else's business how they raise their children. Except for the ones that want to pass laws making us agree with them. I have to agree that, especially if you don't have any, don't give me advise or criticize my parenting.

And I may offend someone, but it appears that the ones that are pro helmets have a little superiority attitude going. You wear a helmet? Good for you, I don't and I don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else.

If the origingal poster had stated her reasons for wearing helmets and why she thought everyone should instead of attacking parents that don't require them, this thread would have taken a whole different direction.

:clap::clap::clap:

I'm so TIRED of those "DO GOODERS" that try to preach how I should raise my children regardless if it's helmets, no spank, no this no that!!! I just want to be a parent and RAISE my OWN children WITHOUT the SIDELINERS OUTSIDE OPINIONS of GUILT TRIPS!!!

I had on stupid SOB that tried to tell me about my daughter being too close to my horse while I was RIGHT NEXT TO HER!! This do gooder (bit-h!) called the COPS on me:eek:
When the cops arrived (after they got her out of her locked car, long story!!) told this stupid busy body that she needs to mind her own business and that I, the PARENT of this MINOR CHILD had things UNDER CONTROL PERFECTLY!!!!
I'm just SO TIRED of the BUSY BODIES medaling into my business of MY FAMILY, MY LIVE, MY DECISIONS!!! STAY OUT OF MY LIFE, STAY OUT OF MY CHILD'S LIFE!! I have things PERFECTLY under CONTROL;)

Thank you but NO THANK YOU!!!

gaited07

02-17-2010, 07:58 AM

Gaited07: “When I first read this thread my blood boiled and I was offended about the accusations made by RR and "bad parents" not taking the responsible actions to protect their children!!!”

I strongly resent the use of quotes when I never once said the words “bad parents” when referring to parents who don’t make their children wear helmets. Inferred? Maybe. It depends on how you read it. But I never said that, so please don’t write quotes around it to make it sound like I did. I would rather not have words put in my mouth.

As a matter of fact, I believe if you search this thread you’ll find that the words “bad parents” were used only by the people arguing against helmets, or by people arguing for them when quoting others. At least, I know I never used them. I’m not trying to attack you, but please don’t make it look like we’re calling you names when

Oh I'm "SORRY" YOU SAID WE WAS IRRESPONSIBLE!! Umm Definition = BAD PARENTS!!!

Country Girl 43

02-17-2010, 07:58 AM

When the cops arrived (after they got her out of her locked car, long story!!)

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: I don't even know the story but I can just imagine. LOL

Kara

02-17-2010, 08:00 AM

There is a point were everyone can say we can't bubble wrap everything. I rode without helmet,shoes, and a horse without a rope on it. Stupid but its life..

I do think kids under six need a helmet, but after that its up to the parent..

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:00 AM

HERE HERE.

I am regularly called to account for the fact I'm not wearing a hat, even by strangers whilst I'm on trail rides. DESPITE the fact that I am an adult in the eyes of the law, and I am probably more informed than those presuming to criticise me. grrrrrrrr

None of this discussion was about adults riding without helmets.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 08:02 AM

OK - Kids can't even drink alcohol till they're 21. Why should we let them drive cars at 16? Is it really even safe enough to require helmets for riding bicycles for kids? Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to ride on roads at all. I saw an accident with a kid and a bike and a car and it 'wasn't pretty'. I think kids should be prevented from riding either bikes or horses till they're 18. Maybe even 21. It would be safer. And safety is paramount.

:)

and everyone knows that most car accidents are caused by / involve young people 17-25.

perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to drive until they're 25? or 30 to be safe?

and we all know about the problems with young people and alcohol. maybe we could ban the stuff altogether?

ditto for bikes... all those moving parts, chains, metal... it's gotta be a health and safety issue for anyone.

scary ;)

gaited07

02-17-2010, 08:03 AM

Here you might want to learn about your definitions before you post:

ir·re·spon·si·ble (ĭr'ĭ-spŏn'sə-bəl) http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
adj.

Marked by a lack of responsibility: irresponsible accusations.
Lacking a sense of responsibility; unreliable or untrustworthy.
Law Not mentally or financially fit to assume responsibility.
Not liable to be called to account by a higher authority.
n.

One who has no sense of responsibility.
Law One who is mentally or financially unfit to assume responsibility for one's actions.
One who is unlikely to be called to account by a higher authority.

Now you tell me ole wise one, who the heck are you to tell me and all the others here, as a parents that We are irresponsible!!!!

Rabid_Raccoon

02-17-2010, 08:05 AM

To elaborate more on my response to the “not my child, not my problem” argument, and maybe clarify to some people why I started this thread in the first place:
If I saw a child on a horse, not wearing a helmet, and I didn’t say something to his parent and he fell off that horse and cracked his head open, It would kill me. I would feel responsible.
If I saw a child on a horse, not wearing a helmet, and I said something to his parent and they still didn’t put a helmet on him, and he fell off of that horse and cracked his head open, it would still kill me. But at least I would know I had tried, that I had really tried to do something.

If one of the formers’ children were to fall off of a horse without a helmet and crack their head open (God forbid), I would be heartbroken, and I would mourn with them (I would not say “I told you so”, don’t worry). However, if I had never said this, never spoken my mind like this, I would have felt responsible. I would have felt like I could have changed things, if I had just spoken up and been willing to risk some people getting upset with me. So maybe I’m just doing this to help my own conscience, or maybe it’s really just because I care about these kids. Either way, I’m doing this for the kids. Not to look down upon any parents. I just wanted you all to know that, and I hope that no one midjudges my intentions.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 08:06 AM

None of this discussion was about adults riding without helmets.

y'say that but, notice my comment was in response to a general comment about "pro helmet types being a bit arrogant"

i was lending support for that statement with a fact that is, though not directly relevant to the original themes of the thread, relevant by association. i think it's worthy to note that pro-hat types will tell adults they should wear a hat, but (in my experience) the converse is not the case.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:07 AM

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:11 AM

oh yeah forgot to add:

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::h ysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hys terical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hyste rical:

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 08:13 AM

Or perhaps we should let go of all these concerns.

Let all children drink! Smoke cigarettes, smoke pot, smoke whatever!! Drive cars! Really, a child should know when he or she is old and responsible enough to get behind the wheel. Let's also ban condoms, they don't protect against EVERYTHING and pregnancies have still occured so why bother using them too! Forget seatbelts! Stick the kids in the truck bed! Bedtimes? Why bother! They're smart enough to know when they need rest. TVs should be on ALL the time! ANARCHY, woooooooooo!

you say this like it is laughable. and yet in some social spheres it appears to be the norm. pregnant 12 year olds, sti's on the rise, underage drinking, smoking, illegal drug use are unfortunately part of modern society. they are all illegal. but they still happen DE FACTO. the tv and bedtime things are so commonplace they barely merit a mention.

in no way is this a good thing. i'm not saying that. but it's sad that the thing you obviously intended to be a joke is not so far from reality.

gaited07

02-17-2010, 08:13 AM

Or perhaps we should let go of all these concerns.

Let all children drink! Smoke cigarettes, smoke pot, smoke whatever!! Drive cars! Really, a child should know when he or she is old and responsible enough to get behind the wheel. Let's also ban condoms, they don't protect against EVERYTHING and pregnancies have still occured so why bother using them too! Forget seatbelts! Stick the kids in the truck bed! Bedtimes? Why bother! They're smart enough to know when they need rest. TVs should be on ALL the time! ANARCHY, woooooooooo!

First off this is concerning the "parents" not the childrens decision!!! So with that said, um your off base. This is a PARENTS DECISIONS not a CHILDS DECISION. Parents know best;)

But I will tell you, in my culture, we do let our children have a drink of wine during holidays.;)
I've been driving since I was 7 years old (raised on the farm and learned how to drive a farmall tractor):p

shewasmyshadow

02-17-2010, 08:13 AM

If I saw a child on a horse, not wearing a helmet, and I didn’t say something to his parent and he fell off that horse and cracked his head open, It would kill me. I would feel responsible.

If the parent is an experienced rider and well educated on the risks, then it still stands as... None of your business. :rolleyes:

WashingtonBay

02-17-2010, 08:14 AM

If one of the formers’ children were to fall off of a horse without a helmet and crack their head open (God forbid), I would be heartbroken, and I would mourn with them (I would not say “I told you so”, don’t worry). However, if I had never said this, never spoken my mind like this, I would have felt responsible. I would have felt like I could have changed things, if I had just spoken up and been willing to risk some people getting upset with me. So maybe I’m just doing this to help my own conscience, or maybe it’s really just because I care about these kids. Either way, I’m doing this for the kids. Not to look down upon any parents. I just wanted you all to know that, and I hope that no one midjudges my intentions.

Well, RR, you're young and bright eyed, and your intentions are noble, but I think you should realize that (1) You are not responsible for other people, morally or legally. If you think you are, you will either (a) spend your life worrying yourself to death or (b) be a real pain in the rear to be around, or (a)+(b)=both.

People don't like being interfered with by busybodies... they really don't.
There isn't a parent alive who has a horse who is not aware helmets exist and what they do. Not one.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:16 AM

you say this like it is laughable. and yet in some social spheres it appears to be the norm. pregnant 12 year olds, sti's on the rise, underage drinking, smoking, illegal drug use are unfortunately part of modern society. they are all illegal. but they still happen DE FACTO. the tv and bedtime things are so commonplace they barely merit a mention.

in no way is this a good thing. i'm not saying that. but it's sad that the thing you obviously intended to be a joke is not so far from reality.

I agree. It's pretty sad and pathetic that such things really do go on.

But I also I suspect there are some people on this thread that think young children not wearing helmets is an equally serious matter.

miatapony

02-17-2010, 08:18 AM

If the parent is an experienced rider and well educated on the risks, then it still stands as... None of your business. :rolleyes:

This is my thought on this WHOLE matter i know what to expect from my horse and my kids. stay out of it.
As for someone i have never met comming up to me and telling me i should put a helmet on MY child with out them knowing anything about MY child might just end up in a not so nice way.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 08:20 AM

I agree. It's pretty sad and pathetic that such things really do go on.

But I also I suspect there are some people on this thread that think young children not wearing helmets is an equally serious matter.

I would argue that the relative risk of a riding accident is likely to be statistically insignificant in comparison with the risks associated with the above. But in order to assert that argument, i would have to look up some figures and do the stats, which i'm really not in the mood to do right now. So instead i'll just lodge my disagreement and leave it at that ;)

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 08:21 AM

ummm... yes there were comments on that too in this thread. :rolleyes: We don't make our kids wear helmets when they ride their bikes and I don't expect someone to judge my parenting because my kids do not wear helmets when they ride a bike. Again, it is my choice as a parent what my kids do or don't do.

Umm...okay lets be rude about it. It is the state law in almost every state....There is a reason for that. I have never before heard somone say they feel judged about their kids having to wear a helmet on a bike. I didn't say no one had ever said it before. Most people accept that as the law and don't have a problem with it. They would like to protect their kids head. Maybe we shouldn't make our kids wear seatbelts either. They might not like that.

My questions is this...

Why would you not have your kid wear a helmet? Horse riding is dangerous as it is, why increase those chances by not having their head protected?

I am not trying to tell anyone they are a bad parents. I am just curious about why parents don't want their kids to wear helmets, whether it is on a horse, bike, etc.

Rabid_Raccoon

02-17-2010, 08:21 AM

I do not believe that caring about other people makes me a pain to be around, and I don’t think my friends or fiancé would say that either J Of course, not everyone likes everyone, and some people don’t enjoy me… but that is fine. I am comfortable with the way I am, and don’t think my friends want me to change. This being said, thank you for your concern J

I wrote that to counter the accusations that I had started this thread to bash certain people, or because I had a “high and mighty” attitude of some sort. That couldn’t be farther from the intentions I had when starting this thread.

prissy18

02-17-2010, 08:21 AM

All I have to say is RR I am proud of you for doing this and staying were you stand. YOU go girl! :)

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:23 AM

Why would you not have your kid wear a helmet?

No one has been able to answer this question yet!

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 08:28 AM

Everyone is just accusing people of things. The pro-helmet people as some of you want to call them can very clearly state why they feel a kid should wear a helmet. I don't feel "it is none of your business" is a very good answer to why they shouldn't. That right there proves something. You shouldn't get defensive if you have a good reason behind it.

It doesn't matter how good a rider your kid is, or how good the horse is accidents happen. My pony would stop and wait for me if he ever thought I was going to come off, but he couldn't always save me. Like I said when he cracked my helmet open....

gaited07

02-17-2010, 08:28 AM

My questions is this...

Why would you not have your kid wear a helmet? Horse riding is dangerous as it is, why increase those chances by not having their head protected?

I am not trying to tell anyone they are a bad parents. I am just curious about why parents don't want their kids to wear helmets, whether it is on a horse, bike, etc.

My kids, MY rules. Your kids, YOUR rules;)

I don't want any more laws, rules or regulations telling me yet again about what I can do and what I can't do. Pretty soon you will have to have a petition signed in order to get your kids off the couch to go to school!

Oh and while we are on safety issues and concerns, why not make it mandatory for kids to be home schooled with all the gang violence and school shootings??? I feel that THIS is more of a threat than riding a horse without a helmet!

miatapony

02-17-2010, 08:30 AM

It will not save them all the time that is WHY !!! Is that enough of an answer for you.
There are freak accidents that happen. with or with out.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:30 AM

Ok, another question:

For those that are anti-helmet with their young children. Have any of them had a bad accident? How did you react, what happened?

gaited07

02-17-2010, 08:30 AM

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:30 AM

It will not save them all the time that is WHY !!! Is that enough of an answer for you.
There are freak accidents that happen. with or with out.

But if it saves them some of the time?

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 08:32 AM

No one has been able to answer this question yet!

it was answered previously by someone (i forget sorry) who said heatstroke was a significant risk.

WB said that a pony ride without a hat is better than none at all, in the absence of an available hat. granted that doesn't apply to people whose kids are having regular lessons or have ponies, but only to one off type events.

i would propose that some people simply do not feel it is beneficial, the risks of riding are not significantly reduced by wearing a hat and that a lot of the arguments for are anecdotal (i wear one because i fell off and only survived because i was wearing one) which is fine, but it wouldn't qualify as scientific. you couldn't license a drug on the strength of this sort of evidence...

that said, i'm hypothesising to some degree as i'm not a parent ;)

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 08:32 AM

It will not save them all the time that is WHY !!! Is that enough of an answer for you.
There are freak accidents that happen. with or with out.

Are you serious? That is your answer? Wow. I am really surprised by people here. Both of you have just proven my point.

miatapony

02-17-2010, 08:35 AM

But if it saves them some of the time?
to answer your last question Yes my daughter at the age of 2 came off one of my horses and landed on her face a helmet would not have helped in any way what so ever it more than likey waould have scared her more than she was .. she stood up brushed herself off and walked back to the horse and scolded him and climed right back on .. yes there was a little blood .. im not a freak out parent .. sorry ... I think my daughter is a better rider today because of the falls she has taken and gotten up from and done it again. If I had to do it again would i YES she will learn the same way i did.

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 08:36 AM

it was answered previously by someone (i forget sorry) who said heatstroke was a significant risk.

Thank you. I hadn't seen that. That is actually a reason, not just because... I don't feel that is enough of a reason not to wear one, but I can see where someone might be coming from. I have ridden in super hot weather and my helmet was the least of my being hot, lol.

WashingtonBay

02-17-2010, 08:37 AM

I do not believe that caring about other people makes me a pain to be around

Caring doesn't make you a pain.... Thinking you can or should approach and say something to the parent of every unhelmeted kid you see is what would do that.

There's very limited times we should feel bold enough to inject ourselves and our views, uninvited on other people. Be careful when you use this right, is my advice.

miatapony

02-17-2010, 08:37 AM

Are you serious? That is your answer? Wow. I am really surprised by people here. Both of you have just proven my point.

AM i serious YES! face it everone on here is at odds some will agree some wont.

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 08:40 AM

I don't know why everyone gets so deffensive and rude on forums. People should just be able to talk things out. Of course people will agree and others will disagree but I feel people should be able to talk about it with out getting all touchy. I was just asking for a reason other that because.

Okay miatapony. I was just wondering.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:41 AM

to answer your last question Yes my daughter at the age of 2 came off one of my horses and landed on her face a helmet would not have helped in any way what so ever it more than likey waould have scared her more than she was .. she stood up brushed herself off and walked back to the horse and scolded him and climed right back on .. yes there was a little blood .. im not a freak out parent .. sorry ... I think my daughter is a better rider today because of the falls she has taken and gotten up from and done it again. If I had to do it again would i YES she will learn the same way i did.

Sounds like she was really lucky. Glad she wasn't hurt worse.

prissy18

02-17-2010, 08:42 AM

I always say what I think and most people know that. I wear my helmet and mabey some kid will see that and do the same. Thats all I can really do. I will be a leader and mabey some day have some followers. :)

WashingtonBay

02-17-2010, 08:44 AM

I don't know why everyone gets so deffensive and rude on forums.

Personally, I think some of them should calm down. We really don't need all the screaming caps. They don't make your point clearer, in fact, they make it much harder to read.

But that said... you need to realize that you've called parents irresponsible, and they're going to be offended. Defend it, or don't use it, but you can't use fightin' words and then declare everyone else rude for getting mad. Your words too, have meaning.

Rabid_Raccoon

02-17-2010, 08:44 AM

Sounds like she was really lucky. Glad she wasn't hurt worse.

I second that.

natisha

02-17-2010, 08:46 AM

I feel like your statement above is just this. Otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered to defend my use of helmets because, as you'll see below, I don't care what people do with their rugrats.

On the whole helmets on children issue, if I had a kid (which I hope to God I never do), it would wear a helmet.... Other people's kids, I don't give a flying squirrel's butt what they wear or do or ride as long as they don't cut me off or spook my horse. If they fall off and crack their head open and die or just bounce around and pop back up, I could really care less. Not my kid, not my problem unless they hold up a ring for a ridiculous amount of time because an ambulance has to be called and they have to be back boarded and braced and all that fun junk (it's happened and it pisses me off.) But other than those issues, I really couldn't care less...I hope you don't babysit

gaited07

02-17-2010, 08:46 AM

Are you serious? That is your answer? Wow. I am really surprised by people here. Both of you have just proven my point.

You asked for an answer and you got it. Then you JUDGE her for her answer???!!!
Regardless of the answer, it is her decision to make, not yours, not mine, not anyone elses but her's, the parent.
That is my answer, I'm the parent and I know best, no outside should have that much control over my decisions;)

outriding01

02-17-2010, 08:47 AM

RR - I didn't mean to say you were a bad person for caring. I was just stating my opinion. Sorry for any confusion.

I don't want any more laws, rules or regulations telling me yet again about what I can do and what I can't do. Pretty soon you will have to have a petition signed in order to get your kids off the couch to go to school!

So it's sort of a social/political statement? That's cool I suppose....

ANARCHY, woooooooooo!

I used to be an anarchist... I still wore a helmet... :greengrin:

IrisGreen

02-17-2010, 08:47 AM

I was driving one day in the city, I looked over at the old truck driving next to me. There was a lady driving and the cuties blond haired little girl that was maybe 6 years old or so. She was standing up with her chin on the dash board looking out the front window....I had to take a double take to make sure what I saw was really happening.

I pull up next to her at the next red light, look over at the little girl. She smiles at me and I point to her, then tug on my own shoulder belt. She immediately hops in her seat, puts on her belt and looks back with a smile on her face. I gave her the thumbs up with a big smile and that's when the Mother happens to look over, see her child actually wearing a seat belt and me giving her the thumbs up for it. The light turns green and she takes off like I was pointing a gun at her!

I don't know if she was pissed because I forced my view of safety on her child and that's her Parentale right to put her child in danger if she wants too or if she just realized how bad she looked letting her little girl bounce around in the truck right next to her for the world to see. I think that lady was a bad parent, yeah, I'm judging her...Sorry but that's my opinion and I hope that little girl thinks to put on her seat belt because obviously her Mother isn't doing her any favors.

I'm sure that Mother thought I was way out of line and was pissed that I told (signaled) her child what to do.... But was I wrong? Would you have done the same thing? Or would you have just ignored the little girl looking over at you knowing she was one quick stop away from being thrown through the windshield?

I'm glad I did something that day and I could really careless what that Mother thinks of me getting into her business. In my opinion her business should be protecting her child the best she can with what we have available today.

As for helmets, I would like to see them on kids. Do I think parents that don't require them are bad parents, No. Do I think it would be better to teach your child to think about safety and give them a higher chance of coming out of a head injury alive is a good idea, Yes. Would I walk up to people and tell them to put a helmet on there kid, No. But, in the back of my mind I'm thinking..please don't let that kid fall off and get hurt, the parents would never forgive themselves when the difference between possibly walk out alive or not is a $30 helmet. That's my opinion, I can't stop what my brain thinks of when I see a young kid on a horse. But, I respect it's the parents right to chose so I don't preach my view, I just hope they never have a day when they have to look back and wish there kid had on a helmet.

gaited07

02-17-2010, 08:49 AM

Personally, I think some of them should calm down. We really don't need all the screaming caps. They don't make your point clearer, in fact, they make it much harder to read.

But that said... you need to realize that you've called parents irresponsible, and they're going to be offended. Defend it, or don't use it, but you can't use fightin' words and then declare everyone else rude for getting mad. Your words too, have meaning.

Sorry I'll turn my fingers down;) Didn't realize that my fingers yelled LOL!!! (Need the larger print because I can't see it LOL)

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 08:49 AM

I asked for an answer, not a because it is my child. I clearly stated that. So yes of course I was asking if she was serious. That was only confirming that people won't answer the question.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 08:50 AM

I hope you don't babysit

outridings views there pretty much mirror my own. i used to babysit when i was younger. the difference is, in that situation they become your responsibility by proxy and you are culpable for anything that might happen to them during that period. then you care what they do, loosely speaking as if they were your own. then you hand them back and cease to care any more :)

WashingtonBay

02-17-2010, 08:51 AM

Sounds like she was really lucky. Glad she wasn't hurt worse.

We're all lucky if we're still alive, if you think about it. Every single day.

I know this is supposed to be an expression of caring and all, by you and RR... but it's part of the pandering arrogance that accompanies helmet arguments... that everyone who survives a fall, or survives to adulthood, without a helmet is just lucky. Every single day in life, we come within inches of something that could have killed us. A couple seconds later at that stop sign, a slippery spot in the shower, a trip on the way out to the paddock to feed.

Honestly, I've fallen off a lot myself, growing up, and my head was never what was injured, with or without a helmet. I broke my arm twice. Should I say to Miata it's sure lucky her child didn't break her arm? I think she knows that! And no one here knows it better than she does.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:51 AM

I used to be an anarchist... I still wore a helmet... :greengrin:

:hysterical:

NJrider

02-17-2010, 08:54 AM

We're all lucky if we're still alive, if you think about it. Every single day.

I know this is supposed to be an expression of caring and all, by you and RR... but it's part of the pandering arrogance that accompanies helmet arguments... that everyone who survives a fall, or survives to adulthood, without a helmet is just lucky. Every single day in life, we come within inches of something that could have killed us. A couple seconds later at that stop sign, a slippery spot in the shower, a trip on the way out to the paddock to feed.

Honestly, I've fallen off a lot myself, growing up, and my head was never what was injured, with or without a helmet. I broke my arm twice. Should I say to Miata it's sure lucky her child didn't break her arm? I think she knows that! And no one here knows it better than she does.

Of course we're all still lucky to be alive. Anything can happen at any point. I guess that's why I don't get not doing the best you can to prevent bad things from happening.

ETA: and believe me, I've taken plenty of risks. But, when I decided to do them I was an adult and was making the decision for myself. (and I have the scars to prove it!)

outriding01

02-17-2010, 08:55 AM

Natisha - I've never actually baby sat, but I've worked with children the past 3 summers. First at a daycare taking care of 3 year olds, then as a lifeguard at the YMCA, and last summer as the Equestrian Director at a Girl Scout Camp..... I've never had a kid get seriously injured or anything while I've had them. But I don't baby them. When I have a kid in the water or on a horse, I expect them to act mature enough to be in the situation safely. If they don't, I pull them and they sit out until they straighten up. No amount of crying or whining or acting like a kid trying to get their way changes that, because I don't care. I'm not going to eplain to a parent why their kid is in the hospital because of somethin that could have been prevented. And I've had to reprimand my staff over this, because when kids turn on whatever magic it is they seem to have, people just want to compromise and make them happy for some reason. I don't. I want to make them not dead.
I will say that when one of my kids fell out of her top bunk one week on her head and had to be rushed to the hospital, I did get upset. But I wasn't there and there was nothing I could do about it, so I didn't beat myself up over it. And I won't over other people's choices regarding their kids as well, as long as they're not abusive.

WashingtonBay

02-17-2010, 08:56 AM

Of course we're all still lucky to be alive. Anything can happen at any point. I guess that's why I don't get not doing the best you can to prevent bad things from happening.

ETA: and believe me, I've taken plenty of risks. But, when I decided to do them I was an adult and was making the decision for myself. (and I have the scars to prove it!)

So kids just really shouldn't ride at all. That would truly be "the best you can to prevent bad things from happening".

Both helmeted, and non helmeted, are choices and risks. The point is not which is safe, because they're both dangerous, The point to me is where does your right to decide the limit of someone else's safety stop? I'm tired of nanny laws that interfere with my life, because someone I don't even know thinks it's "just a good idea".

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 08:58 AM

We're all lucky if we're still alive, if you think about it. Every single day.

I know this is supposed to be an expression of caring and all, by you and RR... but it's part of the pandering arrogance that accompanies helmet arguments... that everyone who survives a fall, or survives to adulthood, without a helmet is just lucky. Every single day in life, we come within inches of something that could have killed us. A couple seconds later at that stop sign, a slippery spot in the shower, a trip on the way out to the paddock to feed.

i was thinking this but couldn't think of how to say it. it's not lucky. it's chance. it's statistics. people think that avoiding a major accident is luck. but it's merely the fact that the serious accidents are (on a global scale) rare events. most people who drive don't die in car crashes, even though car crashes appear to happen very regularly (because crashes are reported, you don't report every successful car trip). most people who ride don't die in horrific riding accidents. most people aren't raped or murdered or eaten by cannibals. most people's fates are much more boring.

some people are thankful for the luck that they see in avoiding these fates. personally i just believe that 99% of the world's population avoid them and i'm glad (but not thankful) to be in the majority while i am. and when i'm not, it's not bad luck. it's just life. it's random. and it's chaotic.

but it is kinda neat too :)

gaited07

02-17-2010, 08:59 AM

I asked for an answer, not a because it is my child. I clearly stated that. So yes of course I was asking if she was serious. That was only confirming that people won't answer the question.

But my question is, why should we supply you with an answer as to why we choose not to do something with "our" children?

This goes back to freedom of choice, regardless of view points which everything has a positive point on both sides but it's choice of the person directly involved and not the outsider/sideliners.
I mean no disrespect for either side but I also would like the same respect as a parent, as an adult to make the decision I feel best for my family. I don't know too many parents out there that go out of their way to put the child in harms way, in fact, I pray every day that God watches over my children to protect them, keep them safe from harms way.
Anything can happy in today's day and age. I'm more afraid of man (people) than horse to harm my children.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 09:02 AM

So kids just really shouldn't ride at all. That would truly be "the best you can to prevent bad things from happening".

No. Where on earth did I say that? But, just like anything else that has potential to harm, taking a safety precaution isn't a bad idea. Are you against seatbelts for kids? Helmets for kids on motorcycles?

gaited07

02-17-2010, 09:05 AM

gaited07

02-17-2010, 09:12 AM

No. Where on earth did I say that? But, just like anything else that has potential to harm, taking a safety precaution isn't a bad idea. Are you against seatbelts for kids? Helmets for kids on motorcycles?

Anything has the potential to harm a child!

I have to point out that seat belts in a car among hundreds of vehicles on the road (good drivers with bad) is a good idea to have a seatbelt. And your comments about helmets on kids with motorcycles??? Umm, pavement, other vehicles, high speeds = potential hazard.
Riding a horse with a educated, supervised adult/parent by their side is not as life threatening as the above.
Oh and I don't know of too many head on collisions with horses, do you?

NJrider

02-17-2010, 09:17 AM

Riding a horse with a educated, supervised adult/parent by their side is not as life threatening as the above.
Oh and I don't know of too many head on collisions with horses, do you?

If there's an adult walking next to the kid fine. I'm talking about riding independently. Going beyond the walk, barrels, jumping etc. So maybe we're thinking about different types of riding.

Nope haven't heard of many head on collisions with horses. Have you ever heard of a car spooking or having a mind of it's own?

TheRedHayflinger

02-17-2010, 09:19 AM

as for helmets and heatstroke and burnt ears and stuff

I ride in 100+ humid heat all the time. I take proper precautions. I have water with me at all times, I wear a TON of waterproof sunscreen, I have this thing that goes around my neck that I just have to soak in cool water (or put in the freezer overnight) that keeps me cool for 2-3 hours at a time, I give my PONY ample breaks where we rest in the shade or go cool down with some water. I also wear a helmet. I've yet to get a sunburn or heatstroke. This includes 4 summers at a boy scout camp where I was out on a horse (rotated horses because we didn't want them getting overheated) 8-10 hours a day, in the heat of the day.
So not everyone will get heatstroke with a helmet :) Just sayin'

One of those summers, a staff member and myself drove to the horse barn because it was so hot, sat in the wooded area that was about 5 degrees cooler due to shade and we were drinkin' a ton of water--she still got heatstroke and we were just sitting there, in the shade, loose summer clothing on, making plans on what to do the following week and cleaning bridles and drinking cool water.

WashingtonBay

02-17-2010, 09:20 AM

No. Where on earth did I say that? But, just like anything else that has potential to harm, taking a safety precaution isn't a bad idea. Are you against seatbelts for kids? Helmets for kids on motorcycles?

The question is about nanny state laws about 'safety' and how quickly it can get out of control if we allow laws to limit and dictate our choices.

natisha

02-17-2010, 09:23 AM

outridings views there pretty much mirror my own. i used to babysit when i was younger. the difference is, in that situation they become your responsibility by proxy and you are culpable for anything that might happen to them during that period. then you care what they do, loosely speaking as if they were your own. then you hand them back and cease to care any more :)The lack of concern for another surprises me even if their downfall was through their own poor choices. Most people I know would drop whatever they were planning to do to help even a stranger in need. I cannot imagine myself thinking, 'Hurry up & move the corpse so I can finish my ride', but that's me. Each to their own I guess.

As for helmet no helmet- I don't ride with one normally but I have on occasion when I thought the horse may be a better bucker than I am rider. I've been hurt more often handling horses on the ground.
I feel parents have the right to choose for their children. Remember Kevin (my love) saying he never really thought about helmets when his kids were growing up? I think the OP's main point was to remind people of that option.

gaited07

02-17-2010, 09:25 AM

If there's an adult walking next to the kid fine. I'm talking about riding independently. Going beyond the walk, barrels, jumping etc. So maybe we're thinking about different types of riding.

Nope haven't heard of many head on collisions with horses. Have you ever heard of a car spooking?

;)
Again, this is the choice of the parent to decide. I would and make my child wear a helmet while riding and that is my choice. I do not wear one myself because that is my choice even though I have a fractured skull and could die if hit in the same spot. But with that said, I jump and I wear a helmet!

As for cars spooking, well yes! Think about drunk/on drugs drivers, texting while driving, cell phone's, eating at the wheel, just not paying attention drivers, and those who have no clue and should have not been let out of the house drivers LOL!
I drive every day with these people to work. (Vegas traffic SUCKS) As with a horse, you have to drive on the defensive, same as being a parent, always be on the alert of danger regardless of horses, cars, schools, playtime, anything that life have to throw at you, you have to be prepared to handle!!;)

NJrider

02-17-2010, 09:26 AM

natisha

02-17-2010, 09:28 AM

NJrider

02-17-2010, 09:29 AM

;)
Again, this is the choice of the parent to decide. I would and make my child wear a helmet while riding and that is my choice. I do not wear one myself because that is my choice even though I have a fractured skull and could die if hit in the same spot. But with that said, I jump and I wear a helmet!

As for cars spooking, well yes! Think about drunk/on drugs drivers, texting while driving, cell phone's, eating at the wheel, just not paying attention drivers, and those who have no clue and should have not been let out of the house drivers LOL!
I drive every day with these people to work. (Vegas traffic SUCKS) As with a horse, you have to drive on the defensive, same as being a parent, always be on the alert of danger regardless of horses, cars, schools, playtime, anything that life have to throw at you, you have to be prepared to handle!!;)

Yes but that's the idiot driver, not the car! The car won't decide to fling itself across the highway by itself ;)

I thought of another question, if you have horses and let kids (not your own) ride them, do you insist on them wearing helmets? In this litigious society I'd be afraid of something happening and getting sued if I didn't.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 09:30 AM

And I mean "you" generally not to anyone specific!

palomino

02-17-2010, 09:31 AM

natisha

02-17-2010, 09:32 AM

eaten by cannibals.
:hysterical: Thanks for the first laugh I've had in days.:)

gaited07

02-17-2010, 09:32 AM

I would love it if we didn't have to have laws dictating our choices. I guess I just don't have enough faith in humanity that they'd decide to do what's best for society. On the other hand it could do wonders for over population—social darwinism!

And as a parent that is what we are concerned about or even if your not a parent, would you like the government to decide when and where you can do something as minuscule as riding a horse?? We already have too many rules and regulations with our governments hands in, I don't think we need more.;)

I have faith in our decision capabilities and for those who make continuously bad choices will deal with the courts of law and their bad choices.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 09:34 AM

The lack of concern for another surprises me even if their downfall was through their own poor choices. Most people I know would drop whatever they were planning to do to help even a stranger in need. I cannot imagine myself thinking, 'Hurry up & move the corpse so I can finish my ride', but that's me. Each to their own I guess.

aha there's a difference between not caring that they take risks and not doing something when it goes wrong. If i were to witness an accident, i can assure I would not ride past thinking "ey up there's a nice corpse to jump over". it merely means that i don't think it's my fault for not telling them not to do whatever killed them. it means i don't think they were my responsibility. but the point about being human is that we get involved in other people's problems. i won't get involved unless it's absolutely necessary because i think people have a right to their own decisions. but if they do mess up and need help, it's a different matter.

not caring what happens to a stranger isn't the same as callously walking past when they need help. i think perhaps you take me too literally. or perhaps it's just a different ideology. some people are taught to love other people. as a general i hate them (yes i do mean this). but that doesn't mean i could walk past and not help if someone needed it, because some things go beyond opinions and feelings.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 09:35 AM

NJrider

02-17-2010, 09:36 AM

And as a parent that is what we are concerned about or even if your not a parent, would you like the government to decide when and where you can do something as minuscule as riding a horse?? We already have too many rules and regulations with our governments hands in, I don't think we need more.;)

I have faith in our decision capabilities and for those who make continuously bad choices will deal with the courts of law and their bad choices.

I'm not talking about when and where at all. Never was. And I guess I missed something because somehow this thread has turned into helmets for children being a law. I don't think it should be a law at all. I just don't understand why people don't put helmets on their kids!

My point about the government was in response to WB's comment, that's all.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 09:36 AM

i have faith in evolution :)

I think I <3 you!

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 09:37 AM

:hysterical: Thanks for the first laugh I've had in days.:)

i honestly do not know why cannibalism kept popping into my head while i was writing that.

perhaps i should invest in therapy? LOL

gaited07

02-17-2010, 09:37 AM

Yes but that's the idiot driver, not the car! The car won't decide to fling itself across the highway by itself ;)

I thought of another question, if you have horses and let kids (not your own) ride them, do you insist on them wearing helmets? In this litigious society I'd be afraid of something happening and getting sued if I didn't.

The car is a machine which is operated by human. I haven't seen too many parked cars creating havoc;)

As for friends riding the horses or the quads, no! If they don't have their own horses, we don't supply the entertainment or insurance risk. I have my own children to be concerned about without the added worry of others:)

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 09:38 AM

I think I <3 you!

i <3 evolution :p

gaited07

02-17-2010, 09:40 AM

I'm not talking about when and where at all. Never was. And I guess I missed something because somehow this thread has turned into helmets for children being a law. I don't think it should be a law at all. I just don't understand why people don't put helmets on their kids!

My point about the government was in response to WB's comment, that's all.

You yourself have not mentioned this should be a law but this is gradually making its way into a law and I'm afraid of the future with these issues.

dame_wolf

02-17-2010, 09:40 AM

Man! This thread grew by more then 4 pages while I was catching up from yesterday! And then 2 more while I was typing this up... There are so many posts I want to respond to but they are 5-10-20 pages ago it would be pointless and I can't remember half of them now anyway! :rolleyes: So what's the point.

I will say that this thread has become way more heated then before I signed off and both sides are getting a little heated. That being said I don't believe that anyone has the right to tell a parent how to take care of their child. To those that have asked why not wear helmets besides the old answer of 'we never did' well we turned out just fine didn't we? Can you honestly tell me that the accident and death rates have gone down since all these nanny laws were past? I to believe that helmets give a false sense of security and only protect the rider in a minute way. Does that mean that people shouldn't wear them? That kids shouldn't wear them? No. It means that everyone has their opinions, some you think are valid some you don't.

I can tell you that J's kids wear their helmets when they ride their dirt bikes (unless they are just poking around the yard but the moment it goes beyond poking they have to put them on!) and should they decide that they want to learn to ride horses they will have to wear helmets then too. Not only for their safety while learning but also because of the ex (total other story). To come back to the false sense of security I've seen S be very careful on his bike without a helmet and then put his on and go screaming down the drive doing a wheelie the entire length! Would that helmet protect him? Well I'm sure his head wouldn't crack open but he could still break his neck or any other bone! I've seen the BO's boy climb up to ride Fox back to the barn without a helmet and be very careful then I've seen him with one on and he's not paying attention and hanging off her. In which situation do I think he's most likely to be hurt? When he's wearing the helmet and 'indestructible'. And yes I do think that his mom should be talking to him about that but she believes the helmet will protect him and that is her right, I leave it alone.

Oh and J talks to S every time he does something like that but the boy is fearless and every time he comes off that bike the first thing he asks is 'Do I have to stop riding now? Can I get back on?'

Kids are going to fall. They are going to get hurt. They are going to take trips to the ER. That is part of being a kid and as much as their parents would like to protect them from getting hurt it is a loosing battle. Do what you can for your peace of mind, whether it be helmets or not and let everyone else do the same. The End.

I'm tired of nanny laws that interfere with my life, because someone I don't even know thinks it's "just a good idea".

Me too WB. Me too.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 09:40 AM

The car is a machine which is operated by human. I haven't seen too many parked cars creating havoc;)

:D thank you for saying it much better than me!

palomino

02-17-2010, 09:40 AM

I answered the question, now no one has anything to say?

natisha

02-17-2010, 09:43 AM

"ey up there's a nice corpse to jump over". :hysterical: Second laugh today- I must be feeling better

shewasmyshadow

02-17-2010, 09:44 AM

i <3 evolution :p

Enjoy it why you can.

natisha

02-17-2010, 09:45 AM

i honestly do not know why cannibalism kept popping into my head while i was writing that.

perhaps i should invest in therapy? LOL or perhaps you're hungry;)

Equine_Woman

02-17-2010, 09:46 AM

I answered the question, now no one has anything to say?

Well I actually think that part of learning to ride is learning to wear a helmet. . .how old is your daughter? My good friend's daughter is 1 and she plans on making her wear a helmet. When your daughter is bigger and can handle wearing a helmet will she be wearing one? When she's riding on her own? Just like holding the reins is distracting for a one year old and must be learned, so should wearing a helmet.

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 09:47 AM

or perhaps you're hungry;)

the best bit of all is that i'm ravenous. i'm going home for dinner. who's on the menu tonight??

sorry WHAT i meant WHAT is on the menu tonight ;)

TheJFactor&Fergie<3

02-17-2010, 09:48 AM

Enjoy it why you can.

why is it going somewhere?

AppyLover

02-17-2010, 09:50 AM

Outriding, Sorry you are offended by my comment, but that is how I feel about helmets. So I do have to ask; are you riding and doing what you are doing with horses because you are wearing a helmet, or wearing a helmet because of what you are doing and how you are riding? Are you thinking I look down on you for wearing one? Because I do not. It is your choice and I would never want someone to feel ashamed for wearing a helmet.

RR, again you feel it is your place to interfere with a parent’s choice on what they do with their children just to clear you of responsibility, but it is still not your place or your right and was never your responsibility to begin with. I can tell you half the old timers at my barn would knock you out if you came up to them and told them their child should be riding with a helmet. It is not your place. Plus (now that I am calm and rationally thinking) I will tell you if this thread would have been started as a helmet thread and not a blatant attack on parents it never would have taken the turn it did. You may not have meant to offend but you did.

As to the question on why parents don’t put a helmet on their child. Really what is it to you?
I have already answered this question and just like the other parents who tried to answer their reasons where attacked and they where brow beat to try and change their minds. The fact is both sides won’t budge. Each side has their own reasons for wearing or not wearing a helmet.

JackieB

02-17-2010, 09:51 AM

No one has been able to answer this question yet!

I'm firmly of the belief that kids should be required to wear helmets. And I haven't heard an answer yet that I feel is very compelling (probably because I'm convinced that there isn't one). However, I do think that this is where the parents have a right to say "I don't owe you an answer or explanation. I'm not breaking any laws and these are my children. I'm the one responsible for raising them, not you."

This isn't a legal issue. It's a question of their judgment as parents on this one issue. We think it's poor judgment to allow kids to ride without helmets and they think it's good judgment. So unless we want to lobby to create a law (which would be OK by me, we're all entitled to do that according to the First Amendment), we don't have a right to an explanation for this decision. That's my opinion, anyway. I no longer ask for an explanation because I got to thinking that I don't necessarily have a right to one.

palomino

02-17-2010, 09:56 AM

They dont make helmets small enough for a toddler, if your friend finds one, cool. I believe the extra weight on their heads is too much to hold up while riding. London is 20 months now, 2 in July. I don't know if I will make her wear a helmet to tell you the truth. Like you said, holding the reins is distraction enough, and I have seen so many kids dinking around with their helmets on horseback, not paying attention because they couldnt get their helmet fitting right LOL- If I could find a decent, lightweight, non distracting helmet, sure she would wear one. I remember trying to keep my helmet off my eyes in my hunter hack classes and its SUCH a pain in the A!!!!

TheRedHayflinger

02-17-2010, 09:57 AM

but they do make toddler equestrian helmets ;)

http://www.equinefashionandtack.com/servlet/the-115/toddler-youth-child-pony/Detail

palomino

02-17-2010, 10:00 AM

Cute! London would still mess with it- she hates stuff on her head. Its just too much of a distraction for a little one that is like her.

Equine_Woman

02-17-2010, 10:01 AM

Equine_Woman

02-17-2010, 10:02 AM

How funny RedHayflinger!!! ;)

IrisGreen

02-17-2010, 10:02 AM

The reason London doesnt wear a helmet now is because she would concentrate on what was on her head and mess with it, try to take it off, etc. That would take her focus (as limited as it is at this age) off the fact she is on horseback and likely result in a fall. It would also take her enjoyment out of it, fiddling with a helmet on her head!

Not that I'm trying to start and argument but I'm just suggesting an alternative if you did want to put a helmet on her. You could try having her wear it around the house, put one on yourself too and make it a fun thing. Get her used to it so she forgets it's there.

My neighbors boys wear helmets when they ride, they even walk around the house in there's because they feel cool and like wearing them now that there used to it. The neighbor on the opposite side has a little girl that's about to turn 3, she walks around the yard with her pink bicycle helmet, Knee pads and pink rubber boots while she's playing in mud puddles. It's the cutest thing and it's all her idea, she just likes her helmet once she got used to it. lol

So, it might be worth a try to make it a fun thing to wear a helmet around the house. Then when you do go to ride she's not focused on the helmet.

I ride with her right now, so even if Izzy spooked, bolted, or bucked (I dont see any of those things happening, she is very level headed)I would be there to ensure she wasnt thrown, or at least be there to break her fall. A helmet at her age is NOT going to help her, in fact it would weigh her head down and increase the risk of a NECK injury at her age- shes so little!

As for the weight, get a light helmet. And as she wears it around the house she will get more used to it. Kids don't like shoes either but eventually get used to wearing them and balancing.

So there is ONE comprehensive answer, Im not sure how anyone pro helmet can dispute that other than to say she shouldnt get on a horse at all.

Nope, I didn't even suggest it. Just suggestions to get her used to a helmet for the future, If you wanted her to wear one that is.

TheRedHayflinger

02-17-2010, 10:04 AM

Heck EW--I want that helmet for myself! Alas, it doesn't come in my size! LOL

Equine_Woman

02-17-2010, 10:06 AM

Heck EW--I want that helmet for myself! Alas, it doesn't come in my size! LOL

It was funny we found the same one!! I believe that is the one my friend is getting her daughter!

palomino

02-17-2010, 10:07 AM

So I guess my reason is that London simply wont wear one, and its a distraction.
I have tried hats and things before, she will yank on them and scream until they are removed- she didnt wear a winter hat at all this year LOL.
She pulls her ponytails out and takes her shoes off too- shes just a busy little girl, and I dont have the time to try to train her to wear a helmet around the house. I have too much to do (like foruming LOL) and she only rides about once a month anyway right now, getting a helmet for this age would just be a waste- she would grow right out of it between rides.

TheRedHayflinger

02-17-2010, 10:08 AM

was the first one that popped up when I googled...and the cutest...they also have plain ol' boring black ones....hehe

cloedoll

02-17-2010, 10:32 AM

Why would you not have your kid wear a helmet?

I'm not a parent (better not ever become one lmao), but I can't answer this...I'll admit to that. Well, I could, but they'd be silly answers like, I like the wind in my hair and I hate a sweaty helmet that makes my hair icky. Blech. Lol, I'm sure your thinking, 'well, better than a cracked skull!' And yeah, you're right haha.

I think everyone has their opinions on this matter and regardless of what one another says, and regardless if this thread is filled with one response or hundreds, we are all going to feel as we did when we originally posted. Just my opinion.

The only other interesting thing that came into my mind is this being about a habit. I think there was some study that said it takes forty something days to make a habit, twenty to break? I could be WAY off, but there is some proven study that it takes x amount of time to form/break a habit. So, I guess an answer to the question on why you don't wear a helmet could be simply habit and upbringing. It might not be a good enough answer, but it's probably the truth (I don't know why the font is all italic, it won't switch off).

jeezitsjacki

02-17-2010, 10:37 AM

palamino, thanks for your response. it was a very helpful one for me understanding the no helmet side and it makes a lot of sense. I was one of those kids :p If my socks were croked (cant spell) or felt weird I would throw my shoes across the room and cry until someone fixed them..also hated hats, still do.

NJrider

02-17-2010, 10:43 AM

I answered the question, now no one has anything to say?

Nope. You gave an answer, that's all I wanted.

palomino

02-17-2010, 10:47 AM

alittleoffkey

02-17-2010, 11:16 AM

So... I read to page 23 then realized there were 20 more pages left to go... and decided I could just go on and reply for my excellent effort. :p

I don't wear a helmet unless I'm on the back of a horse I don't know, or starting one. I was helping break in a crazy mare with my cousin once, and I had been the one on her back. She'd been unusually well-behaved that day, and I went to lead her back to the barn when she reared and her hoof popped flat down on top of my helmet (which I was wearing, because we were just starting her, and she was crazy). I saw stars, and boy did I ever make her work hard for that, but I'm not about to wear a helmet when I'm leading a horse, that would be a royal pain in my rear and I'm just not willing to - and I bet very few of us wear a helmet whenever we're near horses.

My future children, however, will wear helmets when riding until I have enough confidence in their riding abilities and in their maturity level that they can decide for themselves whether or not to wear a helmet. If they want to wear them, I'll be more than happy to keep buying them a new one whenever they fall, or need/want a new one. I am guilty of the occasional helmet-less pony ride with little kids - because I was little once, and I remember those pony rides and how much they meant to me. :)

My friends don't ride my horses. I have one friend who I trust around my horses unsupervised, and she's the only person I let in the pasture without me being there. My friend knows my horses and she knows their quirks... I'm excessively picky when it comes to my horses and my pasture.

Dakota Sunrise

02-17-2010, 12:22 PM

I'm not a parent (better not ever become one lmao), but I can't answer this...I'll admit to that. Well, I could, but they'd be silly answers like, I like the wind in my hair and I hate a sweaty helmet that makes my hair icky. Blech. Lol, I'm sure your thinking, 'well, better than a cracked skull!' And yeah, you're right haha.

Lol, I've said both of those before I think.:p Lame answers, I do agree.:innocent: But I do hate my helmet.:doh: It's uncomfortable and irritating and it does mess up your hair, lmao.;) And I do like to feel the wind in my hair, it's much cooler in the summer without a helmet on. But I agree that those answers are not good reasons for not wearing a helmet. Fortunately I'm old enough now to make my own decision about whether or not I want to wear a helmet. Probably the wrong choice, but oh well. I do a lot of stupid things.:innocent:

MyMia

02-17-2010, 12:29 PM

That's an interesting thought, Cloedoll. I have ridden without a helmet--years ago--and thought it felt really neat with the wind in my hair, but it just felt wrong to me. I couldn't help but think of what could happen if I fell off and whacked my head on the ground, or a fence post, or a horse's hoof, so I always wear a helmet. It may not help me in a fall, but it may, too. I'll take that extra bit of protection, and so will my kids while they're small.

allie0

02-17-2010, 12:35 PM

Haha this is so longggg

MyMia

02-17-2010, 12:54 PM

It's turning into the "thread that never ends". WB will have to delete the other one!

Diane of Buck's Hollow

02-17-2010, 01:03 PM

I think it is a good thing to wear a helmet. I wear a Helmet..but I am older and I truly would break easy in a fall. I do let my grandboys ride Buck, without a helmet..but someone is always holding onto them while I lead Buck. When they get older and want to ride, they will have to wear a helmet also..And no one had better accuse my boys of being ...overly protected..or not CowBoy..ish enough. DeeDee will get them...HA Ha!!

But seriously, I appreciate RR telling us her feelings on the subject along with everyone else's feelings. I respect other people's opinions...period. I do think parents can make that decision for themselves and their children.

Helmets are not going to help you if your neck breaks..and it won't keep you from breaking a bone..But it can help protect your head if, in a fall, your head hits a rock or the fence or a tree or the horse's hoof. And that can save your life or keep your brain safe from damage. That is why I wear a helmet.

RipSpark

02-17-2010, 01:15 PM

Thanks Palomino! That is all I was wondering, some different reasons from people, not just because. No one is having to defend their parenting, it is a simple question. If there was a reason they could provide one. Like you did. As they said they do make helmets for little kids. I teach lessons and my youngest started at 2. Her helmet was so cute and never caused any problems. I understand though about still not wanting to wear it. So many little kids love pulling their hats and socks off, lol.

palomino

02-17-2010, 01:44 PM

I just got to where she would leave her shoes on outside LOL.

Diane of Buck's Hollow

02-17-2010, 02:06 PM

I just got to where she would leave her shoes on outside LOL.

awwwww such a little country girl!!

palomino

02-17-2010, 02:08 PM

She looooooves getting dirty!! I wouldnt care if it wasnt so cold! LOL

Country Girl 43

02-17-2010, 02:10 PM

This thread is going nowhere!!! There are Pro-Helmet people and then there are Pro-choice people. Plain and simple.

So here is what I would like to say....

To all my forum family (that are pro- helmet) and have watched my kids videos and seen their pictures while riding horses, without helmets, I want to THANK YOU so much for not trying to PREACH to me about helmet safety. :D I appreciate your kind words, posts and support to my kids and my family. I also appreciate that you respect my choices as a parent. :cheers:

And in return I will also do the same for all of you. ;) I will NEVER push my personal beliefs on any of you or try to tell you how I feel you should do things either as yourself or as a parent. I will respect your choices whether you are an adult or a teenager even if I disagree with you. I will only give you advice or suggestions but only if you ask. :)

Now I am done with this thread and off to enjoy other posts on this great forum. :cheers:

outriding01

02-17-2010, 03:03 PM

I think you care more than you admit to caring No one could do those jobs if the didn't.

I would do any job that pays as much as people seem to be willing to pay to get rid of their kids for the summer.... There's more money in it than any other summer job I apply for. All my friends and family who know me give me heck about it everytime.

aha there's a difference between not caring that they take risks and not doing something when it goes wrong. If i were to witness an accident, i can assure I would not ride past thinking "ey up there's a nice corpse to jump over". it merely means that i don't think it's my fault for not telling them not to do whatever killed them. it means i don't think they were my responsibility. but the point about being human is that we get involved in other people's problems. i won't get involved unless it's absolutely necessary because i think people have a right to their own decisions. but if they do mess up and need help, it's a different matter.

not caring what happens to a stranger isn't the same as callously walking past when they need help. i think perhaps you take me too literally. or perhaps it's just a different ideology. some people are taught to love other people. as a general i hate them (yes i do mean this). but that doesn't mean i could walk past and not help if someone needed it, because some things go beyond opinions and feelings.

Exactly (minus the hating people, I'm in a good mood today). If I was walking around at a show and saw a kid getting dragged around by it's pony with no adults in the area, I'd give them a hand and help them get to where they needed to be. I would probably also wonder where the heck the parent's were or why they were alone with an animal they couldn't handle.... It's just the line of responsibility. It's not my responsibility to worry about a kid's safety until A) Their guardian places them under my supervision, or B) Their actions or the actions of their guardian are interfering with my own activities or safety. In the case of the child being dragged around by a pony, I would in that instance probably say something about the safety of the situation to the parent. Because in that case, the parent inadvertently gave me a responsibility that should have been theirs and that I didn't ask for. They invited the criticism. But if they kid was getting dragged around and the parent was there and handled it themselves, I would walk right on by with out a word, no matter how I felt about it. Now, if I was riding by on my horse and the pony spooked my horse or ran into it, or the kid got dragged in front of my horse or whatever, I would definitely give the parent an earful, because now they have compromised my own safety with their choices regarding their child.
But the choice whether to put a helmet on your kid or not is very likely to affect me in any of these ways so it really doesn't matter to me. If the parent is ok with the possibility that they may later feel guilty (or not) if their kid happens to fall of that certain way that causes brain damage or death that could have been prevented with a helmet, then that's their deal. I believe the parent would feel much more upset about it than I would anyways (being that it's their kid and all....) I don't actively wish death or injury upon anyone, and my apathy towards the decisions people make with their kids that don't affect me also doesn't mean I do.

Outriding, Sorry you are offended by my comment, but that is how I feel about helmets. So I do have to ask; are you riding and doing what you are doing with horses because you are wearing a helmet, or wearing a helmet because of what you are doing and how you are riding? Are you thinking I look down on you for wearing one? Because I do not. It is your choice and I would never want someone to feel ashamed for wearing a helmet.

Nope, I ride at the level I do because that's the level I have progressed to over the years. I used to wear a helmet because I was a minor and my parents, the stables I rode at and the organizations I showed at required it. I wear a helmet now because I recognize the inherent and increased risks of riding at this level regardless of experience. Everyone falls off in showjumping at one point or another, even top GP riders. It just happens. I accept the risks and also weigh them. I can deal with a broken arm, dislocated shoulder, bruised bum, etc. I can't deal with brain dead. And I understand that there's still the posibility, but I also believe wearing a helmet successfully minimizes it. I don't personally know anyone who rides at a level too great for themselves just because they're wearing a helmet. I know people who ride at those levels because they're stupid. Helmets don't prevent stupidity, nor do they aid it. In my sport, everyone wears a helmet. Maybe we're all just stupid for asking horses to run at obstacles sometimes taller than ourselves and fly over them....

PoniesRock101

02-17-2010, 03:05 PM

It's turning into the "thread that never ends". WB will have to delete the other one!
Noooo!!! Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :innocent: The thread that never ends will never be completley dead! D:

Ok, sorry my immature self had to add that in.

I havn't read much in this thread, so I won't add anything

palomino

02-17-2010, 03:08 PM

LMAO @ 'I cant deal with brain dead.'
ROTFLMAO! You could be talking about people still....lol

AppyLover

02-17-2010, 03:12 PM

......
Nope, I ride at the level I do because that's the level I have progressed to over the years. I used to wear a helmet because I was a minor and my parents, the stables I rode at and the organizations I showed at required it. I wear a helmet now because I recognize the inherent and increased risks of riding at this level regardless of experience. Everyone falls off in showjumping at one point or another, even top GP riders. It just happens. I accept the risks and also weigh them. I can deal with a broken arm, dislocated shoulder, bruised bum, etc. I can't deal with brain dead. And I understand that there's still the posibility, but I also believe wearing a helmet successfully minimizes it. I don't personally know anyone who rides at a level too great for themselves just because they're wearing a helmet. I know people who ride at those levels because they're stupid. Helmets don't prevent stupidity, nor do they aid it. In my sport, everyone wears a helmet. Maybe we're all just stupid for asking horses to run at obstacles sometimes taller than ourselves and fly over them....

I think we where on the same page up until your last sentence....Why would you say that? You are not stupid for being an eventer or a jumper....Not sure why you would think that...