This might offend people...

[Rabid_Raccoon]

A lot of people might hate me for this, but I can’t stay quiet any longer.

I’m the type of person that wants everyone to like me. I avoid conflict and often don’t speak up because I want to keep everyone happy. I compromise, I “agree to disagree” on many issues, both because I like to keep an open mind on everything, and because I don’t want to start a fight. Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy happy debates and a sharing of ideas/viewpoints, but I know it’s often difficult to keep those debates from turning into arguments.

It takes a lot to make me speak up like I am now. I haven’t said anything for a while, because I don’t want anyone here to think I’m attacking them. So let me make it clear that I don’t mean to speak down on anyone with this post. I won’t mention any names.

Since I’ve joined this forum, I have seen a lot of pictures and videos of children and toddlers riding horses without helmets. This really distresses me, and caused me to write this on my facebook:

“If your child is under 18 and riding a horse, it is YOUR responsibility as a parent to make them WEAR A HELMET. To not do so is to put them in danger and is unacceptable, in my opinion. ESPECIALLY when they are a toddler or younger. YOU are in charge of their safety. Start acting like it. Be a parent.”

I know a lot of people on this forum are my friend on facebook, so I figured I might as well not dance around it, and just copy that up here.

I am in NO WAY trying to attack one specific person. I am, however, trying to attack the notion that it is okay for parents to let their children ride horses without helmets. It makes me incredibly upset to see children or toddlers on horses- saddled or bareback, loose or on the lead line, stallion or mare- without a helmet. Some of these children are too young to understand the concept of a helmet. They can’t make this decision, and are completely reliant on you, their parent, to make that decision to protect them for them. Don’t let them down.

I understand that these horses are bomb-proof, that they’re old, that they never spook. It doesn’t matter. Even if they don’t spook (which all horses are capable of, despite age and history, and even the smallest spook could throw a small child), they could trip and send your kid flying over their head. Horse back riding is a dangerous sport.

I am 18 and I always wear a helmet to ride. Why? Because I was once thrown from a horse and he stepped on my head. My helmet dented/cracked and I had a concussion and some memory loss, but I’m alive. Without the helmet I would be dead.

If I see other adults riding without helmets, I think “well that’s their descision”. But you know what? Three year olds, seven year olds, hell, 14 year olds are not capable of making that decision. By law, you as their parent are told to make that decision for them. So when I see children riding without helmets, and their parents thinking this is okay, I want to say something. I need to say something.

If everyone here gets angry at me, but I make one parent get a helmet for their child and make them wear it, it will have been worth it.

I write this out of love, not anger, and I hope that everyone can see that.

Please keep your children safe. You may think "it would never happen to me, my horse is too good, my child is a great rider." But you know what? It could happen. It does happen. Is the possibility of saving their life worth the extra price and inconvenience of buying and making them wear a helmet?

[cheval]

I don't wear a helmet, I don't tell others that they should or even that they should put one on their kids. I believe parents know their own particular situations best, including their horses and their kids.

[Toodlestoo]

RR--I agree with you 150%!!!!

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I don't wear a helmet, I don't tell others that they should or even that they should put one on their kids. I believe parents know their own particular situations best, including their horses and their kids.

I do believe that every situation is different. But I also believe that horses are unpredictable prey animals and that anything could happen.

I don't tell adults to wear helmets. They are capable of making that decision for themselves, and I respect what they decide. But I do believe it is irresponsible for a parent to not make their young child weat a helmet, because that child is not old enough to decide for itself. Their parent should make the best decision for them, which is to keep them safe.

[MyMia]

I agree with you, RR. Charlie is as steady as they come, but yesterday he jumped, tripped, and nearly fell when my stupid dog decided to "herd" him while I was leading him. If I'd been leading one of my kids around, he/she would have fallen off.

My kids ALWAYS wear a helmet when they're on horseback--no exceptions, ever.

[cheval]

I don't believe it's irresponsible. Growing up we didn't even know about helmets. The only people that wore helmets were English riders. Horses can be unpredictable yes, but I think parents have a pretty good idea of what their children are capable of.

[AUEquine]

I have to agree with you. I think until that head is your own decision it should be a law that it has to be covered by a helmet. At least until 16 or 18. I just think of the stupid thing I did as a kid on horses. Even on bomb proof horses, trying to do stupid vaulting tricks isn't smart! Luckly my barn had a helmet rule!
I'll admit that I only wear a helmet when I jump, but I'm 25. Stupid is as stupid does!
I have regained a little respect for our local hunter jumper associations now. They no longer allow hunt caps. Only certified helmets. No matter the age or the level, all riders must have certified helmets on.

[WashingtonBay]

Of course it's a reasonable belief that helmets are a good idea. I won't argue against their use.

I only wore one when my hunt seat attire required one for show. I just don't like hats or things on my head, they bug me, and I choose other ways and habits to attempt to minimize my risk riding, as I do in anything else in life that sometimes kills people. I'm not immune to injury in anything, helmet or no. I know that.


When you are a caring person, as you are, and you see people making choices you wouldn't make, especially where you think it's dangerous, it's good to advise them of risks they may not be aware of, particularly if they are new or naive and you can help them be safer.

BUT... you will also find in life that there are people who have different perspectives than you on risk and danger, and they have a different level of risk they are willing to accept. Where I ride very conservatively and safe these days, riding only familiar horses on nice easy trail rides, others will take on horses who buck, jumping and eventing, endurance, horse racing, gaming, rodeo. All things that I personally think are too dangerous FOR ME. I wasn't always this way, I've aged into it. Believe me when I was young I'd get on any horse and try anything once, as fast as I could go doing it. I've mellowed with age.

But my age and loss of nerve doesn't mean I should now preach the dangers of those sports to others who ARE willing to do those risky things, even with their kids. It is the risk takers who achieve greatness in this world, not the worry warts. May we always have those who are not slowed down by fear, and may they be free of the needling from those of us who lack the courage to do what they do. The risk takers know the risk and they accept it.


As for kids... I've given a lot of pony rides to kids on my horses, kids who were not wearing a helmet because I don't even own one. With the really little ones, we usually have a hold of a leg, if the tot is not a rider and hasn't learned to hang on. At the first sign of trouble, we pull the kid off. I warn them of that. It may be a rather undignified dismount if we do that, but it won't hurt them. It's the choice we have... well, that and staying inside, never taking the risk of that first pony ride.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Thank you Toodlestoo.

My kids ALWAYS wear a helmet when they're on horseback--no exceptions, ever.

This makes me happy :)

AUEquine- Good for your hunter jumper associations! I think more groups should do that. I heard some western events are allowing helmets instead of hats now? That's great :)

Cheval- I respect your ability to stand up for your own opinion, even though I disagree.

[gabhainn]

I dont find it offensive in the fact that you are concerned, I do however find it arrogant that you feel the need to make a blanket statement concerning all horses, children and the parents involved.
I find this nanny state wimpifying of our children a little disturbing, like cheval said we never heard of helmets growing up, and we rode bikes, skateboards, and roller skates without them as well...ntm jumped on trampolines and used diving boards as well as rode horses.
If a parent wants their child to wear a helmet fine it is that parents choice, if a particular association requires helmets it is that parents choice whether or not to have their children join.
So leave the decision making up to those who need to make the decision........Kevin

[cheval]

I dont find it offensive in the fact that you are concerned, I do however find it arrogant that you feel the need to make a blanket statement concerning all horses, children and the parents involved.


I agree with this.

[zoel_222]

Of course it's a reasonable belief that helmets are a good idea. I won't argue against their use.

I only wore one when my hunt seat attire required one for show. I just don't like hats or things on my head, they bug me, and I choose other ways and habits to attempt to minimize my risk riding, as I do in anything else in life that sometimes kills people. I'm not immune to injury in anything, helmet or no. I know that.


When you are a caring person, as you are, and you see people making choices you wouldn't make, especially where you think it's dangerous, it's good to advise them of risks they may not be aware of, particularly if they are new or naive and you can help them be safer.

BUT... you will also find in life that there are people who have different perspectives than you on risk and danger, and they have a different level of risk they are willing to accept. Where I ride very conservatively and safe these days, riding only familiar horses on nice easy trail rides, others will take on horses who buck, jumping and eventing, endurance, horse racing, gaming, rodeo. All things that I personally think are too dangerous FOR ME. I wasn't always this way, I've aged into it. Believe me when I was young I'd get on any horse and try anything once, as fast as I could go doing it. I've mellowed with age.

But my age and loss of nerve doesn't mean I should now preach the dangers of those sports to others who ARE willing to do those risky things, even with their kids. It is the risk takers who achieve greatness in this world, not the worry warts. May we always have those who are not slowed down by fear, and may they be free of the needling from those of us who lack the courage to do what they do. The risk takers know the risk and they accept it.


As for kids... I've given a lot of pony rides to kids on my horses, kids who were not wearing a helmet because I don't even own one. With the really little ones, we usually have a hold of a leg, if the tot is not a rider and hasn't learned to hang on. At the first sign of trouble, we pull the kid off. I warn them of that. It may be a rather undignified dismount if we do that, but it won't hurt them. It's the choice we have... well, that and staying inside, never taking the risk of that first pony ride.

I dont find it offensive in the fact that you are concerned, I do however find it arrogant that you feel the need to make a blanket statement concerning all horses, children and the parents involved.
I find this nanny state wimpifying of our children a little disturbing, like cheval said we never heard of helmets growing up, and we rode bikes, skateboards, and roller skates without them as well...ntm jumped on trampolines and used diving boards as well as rode horses.
If a parent wants their child to wear a helmet fine it is that parents choice, if a particular association requires helmets it is that parents choice whether or not to have their children join.
So leave the decision making up to those who need to make the decision........Kevin

I agree

[WashingtonBay]

Their parent should make the best decision for them, which is to keep them safe.

Whose definition of safe? "Safe" for some is not riding horses at all. Staying inside, not taking risks.

Think about that. There are people who, if left to decide for everyone, would choose things for you that you cannot do because they think it's too dangerous.


And that is why, when it comes down to it, freedom is better. Do what you can for yourself and those you love. But in the end, we are better to have the freedom to choose, for ourselves and our kids, than we are living under a worrisome nanny, particularly one that wants to make their fears the law.

You have a right to your opinion. Please stop there... because none of us are free if your opinion can be forced on someone else.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Well said, WB.

I do agree with many of the things you say- that we should allow others to take risks and not let our own fears hold others back. I believe there is a difference, however, between an adult deciding to take these risks, and a young child who may not be able to realize the dangers of the activities. I also think there is a difference between letting your child barrel race or jump a horse after doing everything possible to make sure they are safe, and letting your child do these things without taking the propper safety precautions. I know my mom used to hold her breath watching me jump some of the particularly rowdy horses, but she knew that she had protected me as much as she could, by putting a helmet on my head and choosing a safe barn for me to ride at, and yet she was still allowing me to "spread my wings" and take the risks that I needed to take in order to grow.

[gabhainn]

Whose definition of safe? "Safe" for some is not riding horses at all. Staying inside, not taking risks.

Think about that. There are people who, if left to decide for everyone, would choose things for you that you cannot do because they think it's too dangerous.


And that is why, when it comes down to it, freedom is better. Do what you can for yourself and those you love. But in the end, we are better to have the freedom to choose, for ourselves and our kids, than we are living under a worrisome nanny, particularly one that wants to make their fears the law.

You have a right to your opinion. Please stop there... because none of us are free if your opinion can be forced on someone else.
well spoken............er typed............Kevin

[cheval]

Well said, WB.

I do agree with many of the things you say- that we should allow others to take risks and not let our own fears hold others back. I believe there is a difference, however, between an adult deciding to take these risks, and a young child who may not be able to realize the dangers of the activities. I also think there is a difference between letting your child barrel race or jump a horse after doing everything possible to make sure they are safe, and letting your child do these things without taking the propper safety precautions. I know my mom used to hold her breath watching me jump some of the particularly rowdy horses, but she knew that she had protected me as much as she could, by putting a helmet on my head and choosing a safe barn for me to ride at, and yet she was still allowing me to "spread my wings" and take the risks that I needed to take in order to grow.

You need to go back and re-read what WB and Kevin said. You don't know anything about anyone elses kids or their horses or their ability. Good for your Mom to give you a helmet, doesn't mean you get to dictate what others should be doing.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Whose definition of safe? "Safe" for some is not riding horses at all. Staying inside, not taking risks.

Maybe I should have said "safer", then. To let your child experience life, but to take basic precautions to increase their chances of surviving an accident.

Do what you can for yourself and those you love.
That's what I'm doing here. I love my fellow forumers :) And their kids.

You have a right to your opinion. Please stop there... because none of us are free if your opinion can be forced on someone else.

Do you think I'm forcing my opinion on you? As this is a public forum, I wanted to post my beliefs and why I think they should be followed. This is something I strongly believe in. I don't mean to "force" anything on anyone. I wanted them to read my beliefs. They can choose to believe them, they can choose to reply and argue about them, or they can choose to ignore this and move on.

[WashingtonBay]

Well said, WB.

I do agree with many of the things you say- that we should allow others to take risks and not let our own fears hold others back. I believe there is a difference, however, between an adult deciding to take these risks, and a young child who may not be able to realize the dangers of the activities. I also think there is a difference between letting your child barrel race or jump a horse after doing everything possible to make sure they are safe, and letting your child do these things without taking the propper safety precautions. I know my mom used to hold her breath watching me jump some of the particularly rowdy horses, but she knew that she had protected me as much as she could, by putting a helmet on my head and choosing a safe barn for me to ride at, and yet she was still allowing me to "spread my wings" and take the risks that I needed to take in order to grow.

What you've been clear on is what you think of the choices of others.

If that's where it stops.... fine. You've said something because you care.

But IMHO, if it's not your kid, your horse, or your property, it's also NOT your business to do more than that. If they disagree with you, you have to let them live their own life, and you have to decide if you can be a part of it, WITH this difference.

What do you value more? safety? Or freedom? You can't have both. When push comes to shove, I value freedom more.

I have a friend who takes all kinds of risks, even with her kids, that I wouldn't do. They ride horses who aren't real well trained, they ride dirt bikes, they laugh when they wipe out, and they do it again. Mom is a rough and tumble gal. I can't be her, I don't have the guts. But I can respect her for her guts. Her son, too, has grown up to be quick, athletic, and brave. And competent. Because in that family, he has to be. Yes, he's still a kid, but his freedom growing up was the freedom to grow up to be a kid that can and will do anything in life. He's taken some hits, he'll probably take a lot more. He's a risk taker. If something happens to him, it will be sad, but no sadder than if he hadn't lived his life as he has. Great books and stories aren't written about the safe people.

[cheval]

I makes one wonder how any of us from the 80s and before made it out of childhood alive without all the safety stuff kids have to wear now.

[WashingtonBay]

Do you think I'm forcing my opinion on you? As this is a public forum, I wanted to post my beliefs and why I think they should be followed. This is something I strongly believe in. I don't mean to "force" anything on anyone. I wanted them to read my beliefs. They can choose to believe them, they can choose to reply and argue about them, or they can choose to ignore this and move on.

I'm asking you to be clear where you'll stop. Will you stop when you hear "OK, thanks but no thanks"? Or will you keep hounding the same people every day about it? Or would you support law that will impose your version of safety on them? In this debate, it's an important distinction.

Because a lot of laws have already been passed based on other people's version of safety, and they often have rather convoluted rationale for why it's our business. I disagree with them.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

But IMHO, if it's not your kid, your horse, or your property, it's also NOT your business to do more than that. If they disagree with you, you have to let them live their own life, and you have to decide if you can be a part of it, WITH this difference.

This is exactly what I have done. I did not attack any specific person in my original post, and I have not/will not attack any person who disagrees with me. Sometimes I debate with them a bit, if I think this can happen without it turning into a fight, but I do not attack them. And other times, if I feel like I can't respond without sounding like I am attacking, I simply do not respond to them. They know my opinion. They can live their own lives. Their descisions make me very sad, but I don't tell them that they CAN'T do something, I just tell them I don't think they should do it.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I do want to say that I believe this thread has digressed and is no longer about the issue of helmets and safety, but on arguing with me personally for my opinions. That's not what I wanted this thread to be about.

[cheval]

It's very valid.

[WashingtonBay]

Oh no it hasn't RR... This IS the issue. Freedom, choice, and your philosophy about them is central to the issue. It's never as simple as "Well I think everyone should..."

[cheval]

I think maybe you don't want to hear that people think it's okay to let their kids ride horses without helmets.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I'm asking you to be clear where you'll stop. Will you stop when you hear "OK, thanks but no thanks"? Or will you keep hounding the same people every day about it?

A few people have disagreed with me on this thread. Have I hounded them at all? No I haven't. At most, I replied once and backed off. Like I said, I tend to "agree to disagree" to avoid conflict. I never want to start a fight.

[Equine_Woman]

I agree RR. To Cheval's argument that we grew up not wearing one, I still don't wear one now but my kid does. Just because it wasn't done in the past doesn't mean I can't learn and protect my kid to the best of my ability. How is that one extra bit of protection going to change his experience with horses? People didn't wear seat belts in the past as well, doesn't mean they don't save lives now. My kid has already fallen off a horse with someone standing RIGHT next to him. I know he's just learning but even if he were older he'll still wear a helmet. I buckle him in to the car, I buckle a helmet on his head when he climbs on a horse. I feel that it's a responsible thing to do for my kid and yeah, I wish all Mom's felt the same way.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I agree RR. To Cheval's argument that we grew up not wearing one, I still don't wear one now but my kid does. Just because it wasn't done in the past doesn't mean I can't learn and protect my kid to the best of my ability. How is that one extra bit of protection going to change his experience with horses? People didn't wear seat belts in the past as well, doesn't mean they don't save lives now. My kid has already fallen off a horse with someone standing RIGHT next to him. I know he's just learning but even if he were older he'll still wear a helmet. I buckle him in to the car, I buckle a helmet on his head when he climbs on a horse. I feel that it's a responsible thing to do for my kid and yeah, I wish all Mom's felt the same way.

Excellent. I love the way you put this. I couldn't find the right words, but you did. Thank you :)

[WashingtonBay]

A few people have disagreed with me on this thread. Have I hounded them at all? No I haven't. At most, I replied once and backed off. Like I said, I tend to "agree to disagree" to avoid conflict. I never want to start a fight.

No one's fighting... I'm trying to get you to flush out what your philosophy is going to be in life, about choices, and about freedom, since you put it on the table.

Because you're young and you think this is just about helmets and kids... It's not. It's about a whole wide range of things in life that involve how we think about risk, choice, and freedom. Do we agree on those values, or do we not?

That's what I'm trying to figure out :)

[Rabid_Raccoon]

WB, thanks for clairifying. I have "thin skin" and often get hurt and feel like people are attacking me personally when they aren't. Sorry if I did that in this thread. Sometimes I just need to take a deep breath and step back.

And thank you, you really have given me good things to think about. My opinion on the helmet issue still stands, though ;) But I have some things to ponder.

I don't know yet if we agree on those values. No one agrees on all values 100%, but on these specifically... I would have to spend too much time thinking about them than I have right now. Too much homework to do ;) I'll have to save my pondering for later.

[Equine_Woman]

No one's fighting... I'm trying to get you to flush out what your philosophy is going to be in life, about choices, and about freedom.

Because you're young and you think this is just about helmets and kids... It's not. It's about a whole wide range of things in life that involve how we think about risk, choice, and freedom. Do we agree on those values, or do we not?

That's what I'm trying to figure out :)

My eyes, I feel she's got an issue she has a lot of heart about. I'm not saying putting your kid on horse without a helmet is akin to child abuse, but the same as a kid is protected from that, and a kid is protected by child seats, I feel a parent should be required to protect a child's head, if it were up to me it'd be a law. Freedom is a good thing, but children can't vote, they can't decide, so I feel it shouldn't be up to a parent if they don't protect their child it just should just be the way it is. It's my right and Rabid Racoons to think that is a worthy cause. And it's your right to disagree.

[WashingtonBay]

I do disagree, and I do that for my own good as well as yours EW.... because I'll not only vote against the helmet law for your kid, I'll vote against the one that said kids shouldn't even be able to ride till they're 16, and the one that says gaming and horse racing is too dangerous for horses to do at all because they don't have a vote either.

Because I don't believe in imposing my own personal comfort zone on everyone else. It's not my place.

[cheval]

But that says you know what's best for other people's kids. You don't. I don't. Only they do.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I think I'm just going to say that I agree with everying EW will ever say ;)

[cheval]

I think it's unfortunate for anyone to believe they should have a say in what other people do.

[Equine_Woman]

But that says you know what's best for other people's kids. You don't. I don't. Only they do.

No. As a child's advocate people say what is best for other peoples children all the time. You can't beat your child, you must feed them, they can't be filthy, heard of CPS? Once again. I'm not comparing this issue with child abuse. I know the people who put their kids on horses without helmets love their child every bit as much as I love mine and don't do it to risk their lives. But I am saying I think it's my right and Rabid Racoons to lobby that they be required to protect their child to the best of their ability.

[gaited07]

I love american, freedom of choice;)

[Equine_Woman]

I do disagree, and I do that for my own good as well as yours EW.... because I'll not only vote against the helmet law for your kid, I'll vote against the one that said kids shouldn't even be able to ride till they're 16, and the one that says gaming and horse racing is too dangerous for horses to do at all because they don't have a vote either.

Because I don't believe in imposing my own personal comfort zone on everyone else. It's not my place.

And I respect that right.

[cheval]

Which if some people have their way will be a thing of history.

[JennyandJosey]

I agree RR. To Cheval's argument that we grew up not wearing one, I still don't wear one now but my kid does. Just because it wasn't done in the past doesn't mean I can't learn and protect my kid to the best of my ability. How is that one extra bit of protection going to change his experience with horses? People didn't wear seat belts in the past as well, doesn't mean they don't save lives now. My kid has already fallen off a horse with someone standing RIGHT next to him. I know he's just learning but even if he were older he'll still wear a helmet. I buckle him in to the car, I buckle a helmet on his head when he climbs on a horse. I feel that it's a responsible thing to do for my kid and yeah, I wish all Mom's felt the same way.

Very well said. I agree with 99% of this. I don't know that I think it should be law, but I've always felt that if we know better now, why not do better?

[WashingtonBay]

No. As a child's advocate people say what is best for other peoples children all the time. You can't beat your child, you must feed them, they can't be filthy, heard of CPS? Once again. I'm not comparing this issue with child abuse. I know the people who put their kids on horses without helmets love their child every bit as much as I love mine and don't do it to risk their lives. But I am saying I think it's my right and Rabid Racoons to lobby that they be required to protect their child to the best of their ability.

You do realize 'protect their child to the best of their ability' means there's a lot of things we could vote kids can't do at all, right? "the best" is a padded room.

If you're talking law, and you apparently are, then you are indeed equating it to child abuse... because the failure to follow it will be treated exactly the same.

[Equine_Woman]

Very well said. I agree with 99% of this. I don't know that I think it should be law, but I've always felt that if we know better now, why not do better?

I agree. I have never really considered it worthy of a law, I'm just saying if Rabid Racoon wants to lobby for that I think it's her right. I understand that everyone else doesn't agree. I'm not for taking away liberty and freedom! I'm just for protecting all the little kids we can. It's the old guard "What was good enough for me, is good enough for them" that humbles a lot of parents into not forcing their kids to wear one. It has a social stigma attached because of that thinking in my eyes. At our riding club 1 out of 5 kids wears a helmet and I really feel it's because people think they won't fit in or will be looked at as "babying" their children. I say baby on. It's my right to protect my kid.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

... if we know better now, why not do better?

:)

[Equine_Woman]

You do realize 'protect their child to the best of their ability' means there's a lot of things we could vote kids can't do at all, right? "the best" is a padded room.

If you're talking law, and you apparently are, then you are indeed equating it to child abuse... because the failure to follow it will be treated exactly the same.

What's the punishment for not seat belting your kid in a car? I really don't know. I feel, if it were a law, it would be similar in punishment to that. There are no movements to keep kids from riding in cars are there? Just curious.

[gaited07]

I do disagree, and I do that for my own good as well as yours EW.... because I'll not only vote against the helmet law for your kid, I'll vote against the one that said kids shouldn't even be able to ride till they're 16, and the one that says gaming and horse racing is too dangerous for horses to do at all because they don't have a vote either.

Because I don't believe in imposing my own personal comfort zone on everyone else. It's not my place.

AMEN!!!

And this brings me back to being an American and the FREEDOM of CHOICE!!!
Please don't take my rights away as a parent, an avid horse person. Shitz happens regardless of helmets or bubble pads all around your child.
I'm sorry but we have too many laws and regulations now that I'm afraid that WB is right, our children might not be able to ride a horse until their 16 or 18 and what does that leave the horse industry??? The just lost intest in it and now horses are a thing of the past.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Just to be clear, I am NOT saying this should be a law. I'm saying I think it's what's right. Opinion, not law. I haven't yet thought enough about it to decide if I really think it should be a law.

[Equine_Woman]

Okay, so lets take it back to the point. Why as a parent would you NOT make your child wear a helmet? Leave out all the law talk. I'm really curious as to WHY people don't chose to have their child wear a helmet?

[lovesfortune]

I am a parent and I think it's the parent's right to put helmets on their kids or not. I see both sides of the issue. My kids have only been on our horses about 5 times and each of those times were without helmets. We didn't go for a ride or do more than walk with an adult hanging on to the child and another adult leading the horse.

When they get older and want to do more riding - then yes, I think a helmet will be a requirement.

[cheval]

AMEN!!!

And this brings me back to being an American and the FREEDOM of CHOICE!!!
Please don't take my rights away as a parent, an avid horse person. Shitz happens regardless of helmets or bubble pads all around your child.
I'm sorry but we have too many laws and regulations now that I'm afraid that WB is right, our children might not be able to ride a horse until their 16 or 18 and what does that leave the horse industry??? The just lost intest in it and now horses are a thing of the past.

And yet the thought there are actually people out there would think it's okay to take away a parent's right is astonishing to me. My niece rides with a helmet because she wants to. If she didn't want to, I wouldn't have made her. Kids aren't as helpless as we'd like to make them out to be in making decisions.

[Equine_Woman]

And yet it the thought there are actually people out there would think it's okay to take away a parent's right is astonishing to me. My niece rides with a helmet because she wants to. If she didn't want to, I wouldn't have made her. Kids aren't as helpless as we'd like to make them out to be in making decisions.

My 4 year old would sure enough ride without a helmet if he had the choice. He doesn't like that it makes his head hot. He'd also eat snickers for dinner and stay up all night. Parenting is about making the hard decisions for a kid. I feel a helmet is the right one obviously.

[WashingtonBay]

What's the punishment for not seat belting your kid in a car? I really don't know. I feel, if it were a law, it would be similar in punishment to that.

I'm sure it's a ticket, it costs them money... repeated offenses... I don't know. People have talked a lot about certain pop singers not belting kids in... and that her kids ought to be taken away... But maybe she's a 'special' case.

There are no movements to keep kids from riding in cars are there? Just curious.

No, but riding in cars is something most people consider a necessity. Most people don't ride, so they're much more willing to take it away.

[Equine_Woman]

I'm sure it's a ticket, it costs them money... repeated offenses... I don't know. People have talked a lot about certain pop singers not belting kids in... and that her kids ought to be taken away... But maybe she's a 'special' case.



No, but riding in cars is something most people consider a necessity. Most people don't ride, so they're much more willing to take it away.

I can see that. And upon consideration I don't think the helmet thing should be mandated by law. But I feel people should quit the "cowboy up" mentality. Like Kevin said he views us as a 'nanny' nation. Putting a helmet is in no way 'babying' my child.

[gaited07]

. I don't know that I think it should be law, but I've always felt that if we know better now, why not do better?


Who are we to say "we know better?" I feel the the old cowboys of yesteryear was far more tough and more apt to survive the elements. What would someone of today's standards do if they had to live off the land out in the middle of the desert??? Or travel 1000's of miles to their "Dream location?" (no air conditioning, limited water and etc.) They couldn't!! but we know better?

Today's kids are sitting in front of a tv eating themselves to obesity state. What did the kids of yesteryear do? WORKED on the farm, helping families, going to church, being good people who cared for each other.

[JennyandJosey]

And yet the thought there are actually people out there would think it's okay to take away a parent's right is astonishing to me. My niece rides with a helmet because she wants to. If she didn't want to, I wouldn't have made her. Kids aren't as helpless as we'd like to make them out to be in making decisions.

To be fair, I don't think anyone, including RR, is talking about taking any rights away from parents.

I don't think most young children are capable of making wise decisions when it comes to helmets. A teenager maybe, but not my 7 year old and probably not my 12 year old either.

[Equine_Woman]

Who are we to say "we know better?" I feel the the old cowboys of yesteryear was far more tough and more apt to survive the elements. What would someone of today's standards do if they had to live off the land out in the middle of the desert??? Or travel 1000's of miles to their "Dream location?" (no air conditioning, limited water and etc.) They couldn't!! but we know better?

Today's kids are sitting in front of a tv eating themselves to obesity state. What did the kids of yesteryear do? WORKED on the farm, helping families, going to church, being good people who cared for each other.

Yes, but does my putting a helmet on my child make him any less 'tough'? (changed my word up because I didn't want to offend anybody with the use of the word cowboy).

[vicklynn]

I understand your concern and it is a valid concern.

My reply is this

God gave us freedom of choice.

[JennyandJosey]

Who are we to say "we know better?" I feel the the old cowboys of yesteryear was far more tough and more apt to survive the elements. What would someone of today's standards do if they had to live off the land out in the middle of the desert??? Or travel 1000's of miles to their "Dream location?" (no air conditioning, limited water and etc.) They couldn't!! but we know better?

Today's kids are sitting in front of a tv eating themselves to obesity state. What did the kids of yesteryear do? WORKED on the farm, helping families, going to church, being good people who cared for each other.

I'm talking about basic safety issues. How can you not know that strapping a child in a seatbelt is safer than none at all? I'm not talking about general life philosophies, lol.

[Equine_Woman]

I understand your concern and it is a valid concern.

My reply is this

God gave us freedom of choice.

I agree. Why would you chose not to have a child wear a helmet is my question?

[Pinky]

In Britain, it is law that any child (defined by the law as under 18) must wear a helmet when mounted or handling a horse. When riding at boarding stables or lesson barns, these rules are strictly enforced because insurance for both horse and rider is automatically considered void if no helmet is worn.
I know many people that ride at home and handle their horse without a helmet - I'm guilty of doing both in the past. Many people consider this law yet another way of our government trying to control the way children are raised in the country. Some view it as positive. Some, not many.

But then the problem you get with this law is if it is enforced, when and in what circumstances. Potentially, social services (bleeding menace they are) can take your child off you because you let them approach their pony and bring it in from the field without a helmet on. How many of you wear a helmet 100% of the time around horses, even when feeding? Because a food aggressive horse could rear and strike at your head. Or a 'bomb proof' horse could spook and accidentally knock you down.

Once laws like this begin to be introduced, where does it stop? When do they say 'OK, we've regulated the free will of our people now so we'll leave them alone'? Regulation, supposedly for our own protection is like a giant snowball covered in spikes. Once it starts on its path, the only things that can stop it are its own weight or when it hits an immovable force.

This year was the first year I've worn a helmet while snowboarding - and that was only because I mildly concussed myself doing a snowbackfaceplant when being stupid (and I was hardly moving at the time). I don't plan to wear one again. I do plan to keep being stupid. It's about free will and the risks you are willing to take - some people are willing to take more risks than others, I'm aware that I take part in several dangerous sports and I'm defined as a child by my government, and I choose to watch all of their protection laws go flying past me as I ignore them. I don't follow the masses like a sheep, I question, listen and watch and that's why I make independent decisions.

You say it should be a parental duty to make a child wear a helmet, but what if the parent doesn't believe in helmets? Why should a parent impress someone else's belief onto their child? So that the next time someone dies or is seriously injured falling off a horse people can say 'at least he/she/it wore a helmet'?

...That was more like my $2 :p.

[NJrider]

Well... the forum message popped up telling me I hadn't posted anything in a while so i should say hi.

What better way than this?!

To those who won't have their children wear helmets, why? It's an additional safety precaution like a seat belt, a car seat and a myriad of other things parents do to give their kids the best shot of making it to adulthood. It's not like a helmet inhibits riding in any way, it doesn't make it more difficult, it doesn't prevent them from doing the same things they would do if they weren't wearing one.

If a parent who had lost a child due to an injury that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet posted to this thread, how would everyone react?

[cheval]

Yes, but does my putting a helmet on my child make him any less 'tough'? (changed my word up because I didn't want to offend anybody with the use of the word cowboy).

I know my Grandpa would have said yes. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would agree. For the most part, I do.

[Equine_Woman]

In Britain, it is law that any child (defined by the law as under 18) must wear a helmet when mounted or handling a horse. When riding at boarding stables or lesson barns, these rules are strictly enforced because insurance for both horse and rider is automatically considered void if no helmet is worn.
I know many people that ride at home and handle their horse without a helmet - I'm guilty of doing both in the past. Many people consider this law yet another way of our government trying to control the way children are raised in the country. Some view it as positive. Some, not many.

But then the problem you get with this law is if it is enforced, when and in what circumstances. Potentially, social services (bleeding menace they are) can take your child off you because you let them approach their pony and bring it in from the field without a helmet on. How many of you wear a helmet 100% of the time around horses, even when feeding? Because a food aggressive horse could rear and strike at your head. Or a 'bomb proof' horse could spook and accidentally knock you down.

Once laws like this begin to be introduced, where does it stop? When do they say 'OK, we've regulated the free will of our people now so we'll leave them alone'? Regulation, supposedly for our own protection is like a giant snowball covered in spikes. Once it starts on its path, the only things that can stop it are its own weight or when it hits an immovable force.

This year was the first year I've worn a helmet while snowboarding - and that was only because I mildly concussed myself doing a snowbackfaceplant when being stupid (and I was hardly moving at the time). I don't plan to wear one again. I do plan to keep being stupid. It's about free will and the risks you are willing to take - some people are willing to take more risks than others, I'm aware that I take part in several dangerous sports and I'm defined as a child by my government, and I choose to watch all of their protection laws go flying past me as I ignore them. I don't follow the masses like a sheep, I question, listen and watch and that's why I make independent decisions.

You say it should be a parental duty to make a child wear a helmet, but what if the parent doesn't believe in helmets? Why should a parent impress someone else's belief onto their child? So that the next time someone dies or is seriously injured falling off a horse people can say 'at least he/she/it wore a helmet'?

...That was more like my $2 :p.

Fair enough. But WHY would someone not believe in helmets? I understand they aren't 100% guaranteed but the odds are sure increased to decrease risks.

[JennyandJosey]

I know my Grandpa would have said yes. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would agree. For the most part, I do.

There are others that would agree, but I don't see the reasoning here at all.

[Equine_Woman]

I know my Grandpa would have said yes. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would agree. For the most part, I do.

That's a real shame and I believe the root of our problem with helmets.

[TheRedHayflinger]

i seen this more of a "hey, remember, heads are fragile and you never know when ol' dobbin might chuck you or your child off into something that is less than forgiving to your skull"

also, just because things were done a certain way years ago, doesn't mean we don't have the knowledge and such to help prevent (not totally prevent, but HELP) them now. There are tons of things that used to be done "this way" for years, and in more recent years it was found--eh..not so safe! let's change!

that being said..parents choice to do what they want with their kids and helmets and their own personal horses. I've had parents try to talk me out of making their kids wear helmets when I worked at a boy scout camp....sorry, didn't pass with me. Told them they were more than welcome to let their kid ride without a helmet if they brought their own horses up and I wasn't working with the kids and they were just enjoying the trails with their family. Then again, I also made my over 18 staff wear helmets (one had to buy a helmet) or they didn't work at the barn...mainly because I never had a kid fall off...but camp staff seemed to fall off horses every time we turned around..haha

[cheval]

That's a real shame and I believe the root of our problem with helmets.

I don't think so at all. And I completely agree with what Kevin said about it.

[Equine_Woman]

Well... the forum message popped up telling me I hadn't posted anything in a while so i should say hi.

What better way than this?!

To those who won't have their children wear helmets, why? It's an additional safety precaution like a seat belt, a car seat and a myriad of other things parents do to give their kids the best shot of making it to adulthood. It's not like a helmet inhibits riding in any way, it doesn't make it more difficult, it doesn't prevent them from doing the same things they would do if they weren't wearing one.

If a parent who had lost a child due to an injury that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet posted to this thread, how would everyone react?

I agree! I just hope more people are brave and have their children wear helmets despit of the old guard thinking they are less tough. . .

[NJrider]

Good point theredhafflinger. Cigarettes used to be great, healthy even! Would anyone hand a kid a pack of smokes today?

[Equine_Woman]

I don't think so at all. And I completely agree with what Kevin said about it.

I used to might have agreed a tiny little fraction with you. . .and then I had a child and the WHOLE world changed.

[cheval]

So a parent that doesn't require to have their kids wear a helmet isn't brave?

[Pinky]

Fair enough. But WHY would someone not believe in helmets? I understand they aren't 100% guaranteed but the odds are sure increased to decrease risks.
A badly fitted helmet is worse than no helmet at all, imo. I don't believe in helmets, and it's not for aesthetic reasons either - I hate the way they feel, how they throw me off balance just enough to make sure I might find it more difficult to land after a jump and how the darn chin straps always seem to be made for people with beastly chins! :)

[vicklynn]

Only time I ever had a kid on my horse is when it was sided with a 6ft or taller adult at its side.
Pony rides for the church. I would not ever do it again though. To risky, even for my easy handled, non spooky horses.
I do not let kids ride my horses as to ride them. If I did, they would use a helmet.

All I was saying is.
God gave us choice, so dont come down on parents who dont have their kids wear helmets.
Its their choice weather we like it or not.
Im not finishing what I want to say, cause it would sound mean and judgmental, and it would start chit.
So, if ya know where I stand with kids...leave it be.

[Equine_Woman]

So a parent that doesn't require to have their kids wear a helmet isn't brave?

I don't get what you are saying?

[Equine_Woman]

Only time I ever had a kid on my horse is when it was sided with a 6ft or taller adult at its side.
Pony rides for the church. I would not ever do it again though. To risky, even for my easy handled, non spooky horses.
I do not let kids ride my horses as to ride them. If I did, they would use a helmet.

All I was saying is.
God gave us choice, so dont come down on parents who dont have their kids wear helmets.
Its their choice weather we like it or not.
Im not finishing what I want to say, cause it would sound mean and judgmental, and it would start chit.
So, if ya know where I stand with kids...leave it be.

I know for a fact how protective you are of kids Vickylnn. And I respect your view immensely. I agree it's a parents right to choose. I just feel they should choose to wear a helmet and I don't see the reason they don't.

[cheval]

I agree! I just hope more people are brave and have their children wear helmets despit of the old guard thinking they are less tough. . .

You said you hope more people are brave and have their children wear helmets. Brave has nothing to do with it.

[cheval]

I don't see the reason they don't.

And that's really the key. You don't and I think when it really comes down to, it's no one's business what other parents do.

[NJrider]

What does this have to do with the bravery of a parent? It's called the parent making the right choices so the kid has the most chances possible to make it to adulthood with the least chance of serious injury!

I just cannot fathom how a parent wouldn't want to try to prevent what they could. I'm not talking about bubble wrapping the kid, let them experience bumps, bruises, broken bones and whatever else. But we are talking about large animals here. I don't care how old/dead broke whatever a horse is. They can still behave in unexpected ways. And 5 year old getting flung from one can get an injury a lot more serious than a broken bone.

[Pinky]

Okay then, let's throw another spanner in the works. At what age do you stop defining someone as a child and old enough to make their own decisions regarding safety?

Personally, I look back at when I was 14 (only two years ago, haha) and wonder how on earth I thought I was able to form a reasonable opinion on my own personal safety. I like to think I've matured a bit now ;).

[cheval]

EW brought up the bravery part. That's what I was questioning.

[Equine_Woman]

And that's really the key. You don't and I think when it really comes down to, it's no one's business what other parents do.

Fair enough. I do find myself offended that you feel my kid is less tough because I make him wear a helmet though. I don't see that as babying him one bit. Babying him would be to keep him off a horse until he's old enough to chose to ride on his own or a teenager. But to each their own.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Again again again, I want to say that I am in no way claiming this should be a law. I haven't had enough time to think about it.

I wish someone would answer EW and NJrider's question of why parents decide children shoud not wear one. I would be interested in the answer.

EW, NJrider, theredhafflinger, Jenny... anyone else I might be foregetting, thank you and I agree with most of what you are saying. This thread is moving too quickly for me to keep up :P

[Equine_Woman]

EW brought up the bravery part. That's what I was questioning.

I was just commenting that a lot of parents don't require their kids to wear a helmet because of the old guard peer pressure you were referring to above. And yes. I wish those people were braver and would go ahead and buy that helmet. I'm not saying people who don't make their children wear helmets are 'less brave' because not every parent is holding out on requiring it because of peer pressure. I was referring to those who were. .

[cheval]

If I thought my child was an adequate rider and didn't need or want a helmet I wouldn't make him/her wear one. My Grandpa didn't make me wear one while jumping for practice (he was completely against any English riding whatsoever and only made me wear one during the shows because the attire required it). I think it's an individual decision based on the kid and the horse.

[cheval]

I was just commenting that a lot of parents don't require their kids to wear a helmet because of the old guard peer pressure you were referring to above. And yes. I wish those people were braver and would go ahead and buy that helmet. I'm not saying people who don't make their children wear helmets are 'less brave' because not every parent is holding out on requiring it because of peer pressure. I was referring to those who were. .


Do you know that (lack of bravery) is why they don't have their kids wear a helmet?

[Equine_Woman]

If I thought my child was an adequate rider and didn't need or want a helmet I wouldn't make him/her wear one. My Grandpa didn't make me wear one while jumping for practice (he was completely against any English riding whatsoever and only made me wear one during the shows because the attire required it). I think it's an individual decision based on the kid and the horse.

That's your right. But why? Helmets don't interfere with a person's ability in the saddle. Is it a fashion thing?

[Equine_Woman]

Do you know that (lack of bravery) is why they don't have their kids wear a helmet?

The ones succumbing to peer pressure? Yes.

[NJrider]

If I thought my child was an adequate rider and didn't need or want a helmet I wouldn't make him/her wear one. My Grandpa didn't make me wear one while jumping for practice (he was completely against any English riding whatsoever and only made me wear one during the shows because the attire required it). I think it's an individual decision based on the kid and the horse.


But if they were a beginner? Or a not adequate rider who really wanted to learn? Still no helmet?

[JennyandJosey]

Do you know that (lack of bravery) is why they don't have their kids wear a helmet?

I don't know about parents and kids, but my BO, who is a middle aged woman now, had a terrible accident a few years ago and still rides but very cautiously. She does not wear a helmet, but I once heard her say "I wish they would let me wear a helmet" referring to her husband and kids. So I think that could be an issue for some people.

To think a child (or anyone) is less tough for wearing a helmet is very hard to understand. I just don't understand that at all.

[cheval]

That's your right. But why? Helmets don't interfere with a person's ability in the saddle. Is it a fashion thing?


Has nothing to do with fashion. If they don't need/want to wear then that's it.

[dame_wolf]

I don't have kids but I do have nieces, nephews, cousins, and someday step children. I do believe that small children just learning to ride should prob have a helmet on, but then people also say they should have a helmet for a lot of things (bikes, skates, etc.). I think it's a good idea that adults just learning to ride wear a helmet. (I know I should def wear one! But I don't and that is my choice.) I know that of all my 'kids' only a few have ever been on my or my friends horses. Yes not a one of them wore a helmet and yes it would have been on us if something had happened but I would rather them not wear a helmet and have adults around then wear one that was grossly to big. I know that even the most calm, bomb proof horse is capable of spooking but I also think that every situation needs to be considered individually. Being led around the yard at the barn where the bomb proof horse feels the safest is not the safety issue that going on a trail ride or competing is. Do I worry about putting kids on Koda, yeah a little cause I know anything can happen but then anything can happen at any time, not just with Koda. Also I've seen Koda go from a dancing snorting 'beast' to a statue when you put a kid on him, and I mean in seconds not one visit to the next.

So yes I think that parents should put a helmet on kids when they ride but no I don't think it should be enforced. A law isn't the way as it blankets every situation and opens the way for more laws that we don't need (age restriction, etc.) and more of our freedom taken from us.

[cheval]

I don't know about parents and kids, but my BO, who is a middle aged woman now, had a terrible accident a few years ago and still rides but very cautiously. She does not wear a helmet, but I once heard her say "I wish they would let me wear a helmet" referring to her husband and kids. So I think that could be an issue for some people.

To think a child (or anyone) is less tough for wearing a helmet is very hard to understand. I just don't understand that at all.

The woman can't get her own helmet?

[Equine_Woman]

Has nothing to do with fashion. If they don't need/want to wear then that's it.

But to steal Vicky's word chit happens! They may be the top rider in the world and have something go wrong. As a parent, I feel it's my job to protect the what ifs as well. But that's why we all have our own kids I guess. I just hope that people who want to wear helmets find the strength to buck the peer pressure issue. I had to go against several people in my family who have the "you're babying him" mentality and trust me it wasn't pretty for them. Now when they turn 18 it's their job to decide and my job to raise them to that age is finished.

[dame_wolf]

On a side note my aunt takes care of a man that used to ride and rodeo and one day he was kicked in the head and then the horse stomped on him when he was down. He is disabled and unable to care for himself. Does that mean that while out moving that horse from one pasture to another he should have been wearing a helmet? Once the door is open it is open and we end up with laws like Pinky posted.

[Pinky]

Helmets don't interfere with a person's ability in the saddle.
But what if the helmet is too big and it slips over the eyes or moves around on the head? Some people have oddly shaped heads and finding a helmet that fits is nigh on impossible.
There are hundreds of variables in every situation.

They may be the top rider in the world and have something go wrong.
You could be the best driver in the world, but something could still go wrong. Does that mean that all cars should be fitted with roll cages and the drivers made to wear helmets?

[Equine_Woman]

The woman can't get her own helmet?

Evidently her husband and kids think it's not the cowboy way. (At least that the assumption I take from the story.) It's the way your grandfather thinks, the way you think and the way MANY MANY people think in the world. I guess that's where my biggest issue lies with the helmet debate. How about I won't tell you you have to put a helmet on your kid and you don't think less of my kid or my parenting abilities when I do?

[cheval]

There are plenty of stories about helmets not saving people too. It is what it is. The fact remains, parents should do what's best for their kids and not interfere with what another parent does or give them grief for not using helmets no matter what their reasons are. There reasons are their own.

[Equine_Woman]

But what if the helmet is too big and it slips over the eyes or moves around on the head? Some people have oddly shaped heads and finding a helmet that fits is nigh on impossible.
There are hundreds of variables in every situation.

I'm talking about properly fitted helmets. My kid has one that has a band that is adjustable by degrees. It fits like a glove and will for many moons to come.

[JennyandJosey]

Evidently her husband and kids think it's not the cowboy way. (At least that the assumption I take from the story.) It's the way your grandfather thinks, the way you think and the way MANY MANY people think in the world. I guess that's where my biggest issue lies with the helmet debate. How about I won't tell you you have to put a helmet on your kid and you don't think less of my kid or my parenting abilities when I do?

This is exactly the case.

[Equine_Woman]

There are plenty of stories about helmets not saving people too. It is what it is. The fact remains, parents should do what's best for their kids and not interfere with what another parent does or give them grief for not using helmets no matter what their reasons are. There reasons are their own.

I agree. But there are many more stories of accidents where people die or are disabled Without a helmet.

You're right, everyone can decide for themselves. I've stated my biggest issue above and it still stands. Don't think less of parents who chose the helmet route. It'll open the door for many more parents to chose them.

[cheval]

Evidently her husband and kids think it's not the cowboy way. (At least that the assumption I take from the story.) It's the way your grandfather thinks, the way you think and the way MANY MANY people think in the world. I guess that's where my biggest issue lies with the helmet debate. How about I won't tell you you have to put a helmet on your kid and you don't think less of my kid or my parenting abilities when I do?


Well, she's a big girl. She should probably stand up for herself. Personally, I could care less what you do with your kids. Do I think there is the nanny thing Kevin mentioned, yes, but I'm not about to go on a campaign to change it.

[Pinky]

I'm talking about properly fitted helmets. My kid has one that has a band that is adjustable by degrees. It fits like a glove and will for many moons to come.
In my 12 years of being around horses, I've yet to find a helmet that fits properly and comfortably that isn't a skate helmet. I have a weird head :).

[shewasmyshadow]

What I don't see is WHY it has to be a governmental "fix"??? Education is the key in this situation NOT more laws that are not able to be enforced. You do not need the government to educate people. You can do that yourself. If you felt so strongly about it, then why not raise some money and run some educational ads in horse magazines and on horsey websites? Educate people on the benefits of helmets. I think if people were educated about the benefits they would be more apt to have their kids wear them. This is NOT a government issue. You're free citizens and the power to inflict change is in YOUR hands. Go and do! :)

[Equine_Woman]

What I don't see is WHY it has to be a governmental "fix"??? Education is the key in this situation NOT more laws that are not able to be enforced. You do not need the government to educate people. You can do that yourself. If you felt so strongly about it, then why not raise some money and run some educational ads in horse magazines and on horsey websites? Educate people on the benefits of helmets. I think if people were educated about the benefits they would be more apt to have their kids wear them. This is NOT a government issue. You're free citizens and the power to inflict change is in YOUR hands. Go and do!

We got off the government over site bandwagon ages ago.

[NJrider]

There are plenty of stories about helmets not saving people too.

And there are plenty of stories where people died even when they were wearing seat belts. Should everyone stop using them too?

I'm all for adults making their own decisions about wearing helmets. I just think that it's a parents responsibility to protect their child as best they can.

[shewasmyshadow]

We got off the government over site bandwagon ages ago.

Sorry. I started typing that awhile ago and just got around to posting. :rolleyes: Shouldn't matter, though, point is the same. :)

[Equine_Woman]

Sorry. I started typing that awhile ago and just got around to posting. :rolleyes: Shouldn't matter, though, point is the same. :)

And I agree!

[shewasmyshadow]

I'm all for adults making their own decisions about wearing helmets. I just think that it's a parents responsibility to protect their child as best they can.

Exactly, so maybe people should start an education campaign to help parents start doing this. Why not have scholarships set up to help parents who *want* to buy their kid a helmet and can't get their hands on one?

[Equine_Woman]

Exactly, so maybe people should start an education campaign to help parents start doing this. Why not have scholarships set up to help parents who *want* to buy their kid a help and can't get their hands on one?

Not a bad idea. Kids outgrow helmets that are perfectly usable. WE could start a helmet repository. . . although kids get downright dirty. . .and once a helmet hits the ground you have to replace it. . so maybe that's not an idea. . . But the helmet I bought my kid is MUCH cheaper than the horse he rides. Much less than one weeks of food for that horse.

[JennyandJosey]

Well, she's a big girl. She should probably stand up for herself. Personally, I could care less what you do with your kids. Do I think there is the nanny thing Kevin mentioned, yes, but I'm not about to go on a campaign to change it.

Believe me, she's perfectly capable of making the choice. The point is not whether she wears one or not but that there is, by some people, a pressure to not wear a helmet just to avoid not appearing tough enough. They have never said anything negative to me about wearing a helmet, but I can't say whether or not they're thinking it. And I really don't care if they think it or not. I'm going to do what is safest for me and my kids.

[NJrider]

Exactly, so maybe people should start an education campaign to help parents start doing this. Why not have scholarships set up to help parents who *want* to buy their kid a help and can't get their hands on one?

Sounds like a great idea to me!

I have a dumb question cause I'm in NJ where pretty much everything is available... believe it or not there are a TON of horses here, therefore a ton of tack shops and anything else you could want. What locations could a parent not be able to find a helmet for their child?

[Rabid_Raccoon]

If you felt so strongly about it, then why not raise some money and run some educational ads in horse magazines and on horsey websites? Educate people on the benefits of helmets. I think if people were educated about the benefits they would be more apt to have their kids wear them.

I love this idea. I'm going to think about this one for a while... Maybe I could do something :)

[jeezitsjacki]

I think that kids should wear helmets because I teach riding lessons and have seen some bad things that could have happened without helmets...things do happen. Two weeks ago my just 4 year old student (very very small) was walking along on her pony, it coughed! she went over its neck and she fell, hit her head on the fence. She was right in front of that pony, now thankfully her pony is awesome and hopped over her to avoid her, but no helmet she could have gotten her head crushed.

not saying that people can't think and share what they want, thats what this thread is about I believe, sharing opinions and what you think is right or wrong, not telling others what is or isnt good.

also I have the same question as EW. why not wear helmets? If you start your child riding at 3 or 4 when they may not have an opinion, why would you either say ya wear a helmet, or nope dont want that for my child. Im just interested in both sides

[WashingtonBay]

Sorry for the delay in conversation... I'm trying to work this offer on our house at the same time :) Been on the phone. Okay, so lets take it back to the point. Why as a parent would you NOT make your child wear a helmet? Leave out all the law talk. I'm really curious as to WHY people don't chose to have their child wear a helmet?

I don't have kids... So just to be clear, when kids have been here on my horses at my place, it's been other people's kids.

I did it because they're not riders, I don't have helmets that fit kids, and if I would have required them, it would have meant they couldn't have had their first ride at all. And that would have been sad.

Did we make it as safe as we could by putting them on an well-broke horse with an adult at each side ready to grab 'em? You bet. But they got to have the fun even if we weren't prepared with helmet in hand.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6991&stc=1&d=1266349727

That's why... :)

[Tiz]

I didn't have the patience to get past page 8 or 9, but here's my two cents.


" I agree it's a parents right to choose. I just feel they should choose to wear a helmet and I don't see the reason they don't."

Whoops, plagiarized you, EW. Freedom of choice, and what you said. Probably should, but don't wanna, so my risk, my choice.

[Tiz]

Cutie pies.

[jeezitsjacki]

I think that there is also a big difference in the type of riding. Kids who are just doing pony rides with people on both sides.. ya they may not need a helmet for just a few laps around, but kids who are learning to ride on their own especially on trails with others, I think helmets are more needed. All depends on the situation

[NJrider]

I think that there is also a big difference in the type of riding. Kids who are just doing pony rides with people on both sides.. ya they may not need a helmet for just a few laps around, but kids who are learning to ride on their own especially on trails with others, I think helmets are more needed. All depends on the situation

totally agree! I guess I was thinking of kids who were riding independently, a kid with an adult on either side just going for "a pony ride" is a big difference

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

What you've been clear on is what you think of the choices of others.

I have a friend who takes all kinds of risks, even with her kids, that I wouldn't do. They ride horses who aren't real well trained, they ride dirt bikes, they laugh when they wipe out, and they do it again. Mom is a rough and tumble gal. I can't be her, I don't have the guts. But I can respect her for her guts. Her son, too, has grown up to be quick, athletic, and brave. And competent. Because in that family, he has to be. Yes, he's still a kid, but his freedom growing up was the freedom to grow up to be a kid that can and will do anything in life. He's taken some hits, he'll probably take a lot more. He's a risk taker. If something happens to him, it will be sad, but no sadder than if he hadn't lived his life as he has. Great books and stories aren't written about the safe people.

couldn't agree with you more :)

i'm of the opinion;

"Better drowned than duffers. if not duffers won't drown."

[dame_wolf]

I think that there is also a big difference in the type of riding. Kids who are just doing pony rides with people on both sides.. ya they may not need a helmet for just a few laps around, but kids who are learning to ride on their own especially on trails with others, I think helmets are more needed. All depends on the situation

I agree. It is all in the situation.

The person I board with has 2 kids, one that rides (D) and one that doesn't. D has a helmet and has to wear it. The only time she doesn't wear it is when there is another kid riding and then that kid has to wear the helmet. Now D has been riding longer then I have and is by far a better rider too. She is lucky enough to be an actual natural but her mom still has her wear a helmet. But her mom has also told her that when she is 18 it becomes her choice to wear it or not. When other kids ride her horses they must have a helmet on, if they come on their own horse nothing is said.

[MyMia]

Wow, this thread just took off!

I agree with EW and the others who said, why not wear a helmet? I can understand if they don't fit well, are hot, etc. but today's helmets are vented (I never feel hot in my dark gray helmet, even in summer), and it's easy to find well-fitting ones. The thought of what COULD happen if my child was hurt while riding without a helmet makes me be very cautious. Helmets are plentiful in tack stores, and if you live in an area where there aren't any, a bike helmet would work!

I was a special education teacher for several years and I've seen too many brain injured kids to ignore safety. No, those kids weren't injured while horseback riding without a helmet, but I just think of what could happen and I shudder. My kids wear their bike helmets while riding their bikes, they don't ride near a road, they always are in a car seat or booster seat with the seatbelt fastened....I don't understand people who don't do that!

[WashingtonBay]

I think that there is also a big difference in the type of riding. Kids who are just doing pony rides with people on both sides.. ya they may not need a helmet for just a few laps around, but kids who are learning to ride on their own especially on trails with others, I think helmets are more needed. All depends on the situation

I can agree, a kid who is riding alone, without a leadline, is at much higher risk than one who is on leadline. I haven't let a little kid go without a short lead line on one of mine. Heck... I had my hubby on a lunge line the first time. My own kid, yeah - they'd probably be in a helmet if they were actually learning to ride as an activity.

On edit... I did have a 16 year old here who rides and is not accustomed to helmets, and I did let her go off by herself here, and she went at a run, as kids will do :) I didn't even think about a helmet. She knows what she's doing in that dept. She's not a toddler. She has her own horse.

[oursarge]

well spoken............er typed............Kevin

Yep I agree, especially as one who was held back from doing what I wanted to do because my mother was afraid I'd get hurt or killed so as a kid I was afraid of my own shadow. She still hates the fact I ride but I have stopped letting her scare me with "what if's". I fall in the house or outside way more than I have fallen off of horses, she still says "Horses can kill you" and I have told her so can falling over the baby gate and hitting my head on the wall, that really hurt. One day at the stable I fell in a snowbank, I have no idea why, I was walking and the next thing I knew I was laying in a snow bank, I was hoping nobody was at the kitchen window of the house to see me laying there in the snow trying to get up, I was like the kid in that Christmas Story movie with all the clothes on trying to get up out of the snow after falling!!!! I should actually wear a helmet and body armour to live because I hit my head on everything. I smashed it on the bird cage the other night, fell over the baby gate and smashed my head on the wall and fell on the ice and hit my head all within a couple weeks. I'm a walking disaster, I'm probably safer on a horse!

That was very well said WB.

[JackieB]

I love this idea. I'm going to think about this one for a while... Maybe I could do something :)

There you go! Make it a volunteer cause of yours. Come up with ways to help make helmets more "cool". That's what this ultimately comes down to with the vast majority of people (adults and children) who won't wear helmets. They don't like the way they look. Helmets are comfortable, lightweight, and you forget you're even wearing it pretty quickly.

But to your original point, I applaud you for saying what you felt was necessary. I completely agree with you. Concussions can be incredibly serious injuries, especially for young people.

[WashingtonBay]

There you go! Make it a volunteer cause of yours. Come up with ways to help make helmets more "cool". That's what this ultimately comes down to with the vast majority of people (adults and children) who won't wear helmets. They don't like the way they look. Helmets are comfortable, lightweight, and you forget you're even wearing it pretty quickly.


FWIW, I'm far too old and out of fashion in every other regard for 'cool' to be part of my thinking. I don't like hats of any kind, especially those with a chin strap. I don't forget they're there, they bug me constantly. So I just go without.... and that's the only reason why.

Now hubby, who actually likes hats... maybe he should wear one. :) His choice :)

[cheval]

I agree. I don't like them. I don't like the fit. That said, I've always wanted one of the fuzzy English hard hats ever since I saw International Velvet, but not to ride in all the time.

Give me my outback hat or a cowboy hat any day.

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

[QUOTE=Pinky;285830]In Britain, it is law that any child (defined by the law as under 18) must wear a helmet when mounted or handling a horse. When riding at boarding stables or lesson barns, these rules are strictly enforced because insurance for both horse and rider is automatically considered void if no helmet is worn.


this may have been raised before now, because i'm catching up on old stuff, but on a point of information (am i debating lol?) it's not the law that under 18s must wear at hat at all times when mounted or handling horses.

It is the law that under 14s must wear hats when riding on public highways, including all public rights of way. This does not extend to private property, those aged between 14 and 18, or indeed any unmounted handling. many yards do enforce rules akin to what was stated there, but that's a rule, relating to insurance, not the law.

So there's no legal precedent there ;)

[allie0]

Rabid, I see where you're going with this, and I dunno whats been said (I haven't read all 11 or so pages).. I agree with young kids riding without hats. Some people put their kids on horses that are "for sale" to prove the horse is bombproof.. i believe that is wrong.


But for others, its 110% their choice. I ride Samson quite regularly without a hat and he is not a bombproof pony, he could dip his shoulder and have me off in two seconds flat. I actually schooled him the other weekend without my hat and he was very good, I didn't get much bother.
Hats are designed for safety I understand, but just not everyone likes wearing them, and its their risk and their choice.
I simple ride without one because I feel like it. And its usually bareback and/or bridleless. My dad even gave me a leg up onto Samson at christmas time and I rode him in the field bareback with only a winter hat on my head. I'm only 17 but my dad respects me to make my own safety decisions. A lot of western riders don't ride with helmets and its perfectly acceptable, they do rodeo's with only a cowboy hat on their head.

I'm 100% FOR riding without hats. I don't criticize people for doing it, and I expect and ask for respect from others not to judge what I do, ya'know? =)
I hope that ties in haha.

I understand you've had a traumatic experience and I'm glad you're alright. Your hat saved you.
I personally prefer riding without mine.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/94/l_cb459d8af4c74a9bb0e2e5e1be9ee89d.jpg

[allie0]

this may have been raised before now, because i'm catching up on old stuff, but on a point of information (am i debating lol?) it's not the law that under 18s must wear at hat at all times when mounted or handling horses.

It is the law that under 14s must wear hats when riding on public highways, including all public rights of way. This does not extend to private property, those aged between 14 and 18, or indeed any unmounted handling. many yards do enforce rules akin to what was stated there, but that's a rule, relating to insurance, not the law.

So there's no legal precedent there ;)

She's right, its within the laws of establishments approved by the BHS where hats must be worn where mounted.

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

Rabid, I see where you're going with this, and I dunno whats been said (I haven't read all 11 or so pages).. I agree with young kids riding without hats..
But for others, its 110% their choice. I ride Samson quite regularly without a hat and he is not a bombproof pony, he could dip his shoulder and have me off in two seconds flat. I actually schooled him the other weekend without my hat and he was very good, I didn't get much bother.
Hats are designed for safety I understand, but just not everyone likes wearing them, and its their risk and their choice.
I simple ride without one because I feel like it. And its usually bareback and/or bridleless. My dad even gave me a leg up onto Samson at christmas time and I rode him in the field bareback with only a winter hat on my head. I'm only 17 but my dad respects me to make my own safety decisions. A lot of western riders don't ride with helmets and its perfectly acceptable, they do rodeo's with only a cowboy hat on their head.

I'm 100% FOR riding without hats. I don't criticize people for doing it, and I expect and ask for respect from others not to judge what I do, ya'know? =)
I hope that ties in haha.

I understand you've had a traumatic experience and I'm glad you're alright. Your hat saved you.
I personally prefer riding without mine.




ahh the list of people who ride without hats... The Queen is my personal favourite. which makes me feel so very British. We're all turning into stereotypes, what with me and the Queen, and the Americans talking about freedom of choice (not that this is limited to America, it's just you guys are very proud of it!) and god giving you the choice. I've had this arguments with so many British people and no one has ever brought god into it. this is culturally very interesting to me. i'm sorry this is a total tangent!

[WashingtonBay]

ahh the list of people who ride without hats... The Queen is my personal favourite. which makes me feel so very British. We're all turning into stereotypes, what with me and the Queen, and the Americans talking about freedom of choice (not that this is limited to America, it's just you guys are very proud of it!) and god giving you the choice. I've had this arguments with so many British people and no one has ever brought god into it. this is culturally very interesting to me. i'm sorry this is a total tangent!

:cheers:

[Rabid_Raccoon]

But to your original point, I applaud you for saying what you felt was necessary. I completely agree with you. Concussions can be incredibly serious injuries, especially for young people.

Thank you :)

And Allie, I consider you closer to the "adult" category although you are 17, it is very close to 18, the leagal cut off here... (forgive me for my ignorance, but it's the same where you live, right? I'm just curious :D) What really distresses me is seeing very young children, especially bareback, running loose in the arena with dogs/other horses loose as well, without a helmet or people around. The lack of a helmet with young children is the main issue I take. I personally will make my children wear helmets until they turn 18, and then it will be their descision. I respect the opinions of, although don't agree with or understand, others who don't. I wasn't trying to knock you in any way, though. I want to be clear about that :)

[allie0]

Thank you :)

And Allie, I consider you closer to the "adult" category although you are 17, it is very close to 18, the leagal cut off here... (forgive me for my ignorance, but it's the same where you live, right? I'm just curious :D) What really distresses me is seeing very young children, especially bareback, running loose in the arena with dogs/other horses loose as well, without a helmet or people around. The lack of a helmet with young children is the main issue I take. I personally will make my children wear helmets until they turn 18, and then it will be their descision. I respect the opinions of, although don't agree with or understand, others who don't. I wasn't trying to knock you in any way, though. I want to be clear about that :)

Oh no its okay! I hope I didn't come across like I was bashing you either haha..
As far as I know there are no laws over here to prevent me riding without my hat. My head my choice. Even if there was a law, I live by my head my choice.

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

Oh no its okay! I hope I didn't come across like I was bashing you either haha..
As far as I know there are no laws over here to prevent me riding without my hat. My head my choice. Even if there was a law, I live by my head my choice.

there are no laws regarding hats, but on the general legal front, yes, you remain a minor in the eyes of the law until your 18th birthday. if that's what was being asked by Rabid raccoon.

which is a great name, for the record!

[HoustonFarrier]

Christopher Reeve was wearing a helmet....the best money could buy....he broke his neck, and died. So, to those who think it is so important for helmets, what about broken necks???? Should you not be standing up for neck and back braces too ? Why only helmets and no worry about the neck?? If you are going to try and tell me head injuries are more devastating than neck injuries, I'm not buying that one.

FWIW......NASCAR does more to protect necks than horse people do :) and it only took one broken neck and death.

Just wonderin........

Steve

[allie0]

Christopher Reeve was wearing a helmet....the best money could buy....he broke his neck, and died. So, to those who think it is so important for helmets, what about broken necks???? Should you not be standing up for neck and back braces too ? Why only helmets and no worry about the neck?? If you are going to try and tell me head injuries are more devastating than neck injuries, I'm not buying that one.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Don't get me started on back protectors.. I only wear mine for events and cross country training. Even then I dunno if it'd protect me, its just a little bit of extra padding =/

[allie0]

there are no laws regarding hats, but on the general legal front, yes, you remain a minor in the eyes of the law until your 18th birthday. if that's what was being asked by Rabid raccoon.

which is a great name, for the record!


... see im dense.
im sorry.
i need things spelt out to me xD thanks phil.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

which is a great name, for the record!
Well thank you :D And yep, that's what I was asking.

Christopher Reeve was wearing a helmet....the best money could buy....he broke his neck, and died. So, to those who think it is so important for helmets, what about broken necks???? Should you not be standing up for neck and back braces too ?

Steve

If they could make a sort of neck protector that I could ride in that was safe, did not limit mobility, and was moderately comfortable, and I could afford... I would definitely look into it! The idea of my neck snapping does freak me out. Not enough for me to stop riding, but still. For the head, we have a simple, effective, moderately comfortable and affordable device to protect us. For the neck, none has been invented yet. That's why I'm debating about head protection, not neck protection.
If helmets had never been invented, I would still ride horses and deal with the risks. The fact is that they have, so why not take advantage of the safety that offers?

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Don't get me started on back protectors.. I only wear mine for events and cross country training. Even then I dunno if it'd protect me, its just a little bit of extra padding =/


my back protector is down right dangerous, i swear one day i will be half way round an xc course and pass out cos it's so "well fitted" i can't breathe!!

then of course, back protectors don't even begin to protect the neck, so hf is very very right about the lack of consideration of that aspect surely!

[Rabid_Raccoon]

... see im dense.
im sorry.
i need things spelt out to me xD thanks phil.

Lol you're not dense, I wrote the question in a weird way. For the record, I think you're a pretty awesome person :)

[cheval]

Where does it end. Helmets, neck protector, chest protector, arm protection, leg protection, steel toed boots (big no no around horses, but just sayin').

[allie0]

Something I'm just thinking about, sorry I'm just spewing crap here, but..
Helmets may protect you from falls off your horse.. But what about bikes, and other contraptions? I remember at my first barn three or four of us would be sitting on one quad bike which would tear over uneven terrain, and no one ever wore a helmet, not once. That thing was unreliable and could have capsized on us anytime up a hill. Riding horses without helmets can be equally as risky as riding your bike down a steep hill, you can hit a bump or a rock and go headfirst onto the concrete..
I dunno. Just spewing stuff out.

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

Lol you're not dense, I wrote the question in a weird way. For the record, I think you're a pretty awesome person :)


me too... allie is awesome :)

and i only picked up on the question cos i was creeping... which is a reflection on my needing a life at this point haha!

[Pinky]

this may have been raised before now, because i'm catching up on old stuff, but on a point of information (am i debating lol?) it's not the law that under 18s must wear at hat at all times when mounted or handling horses.

It is the law that under 14s must wear hats when riding on public highways, including all public rights of way. This does not extend to private property, those aged between 14 and 18, or indeed any unmounted handling. many yards do enforce rules akin to what was stated there, but that's a rule, relating to insurance, not the law.

So there's no legal precedent there
My bad :p. I thought that the BHS guidelines had been added into law when they amended it about riding two-abreast on roads :).

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

Something I'm just thinking about, sorry I'm just spewing crap here, but..
Helmets may protect you from falls off your horse.. But what about bikes, and other contraptions? I remember at my first barn three or four of us would be sitting on one quad bike which would tear over uneven terrain, and no one ever wore a helmet, not once. That thing was unreliable and could have capsized on us anytime up a hill. Riding horses without helmets can be equally as risky as riding your bike down a steep hill, you can hit a bump or a rock and go headfirst onto the concrete..
I dunno. Just spewing stuff out.


my yard has a rule about wearing hats on the quad, but not about riding ;)

randomly enough!

[Dakota Sunrise]

Well I'm sick and bored and this is an interesting debate so this is going to be a long reply. Sorry.:innocent:


I understand where RR is coming from and I respect her opinion. I agree that small children are too young to understand the concept of the protection helmets offer and decide whether or they're willing to take the risk of riding without one.
Which is why when my younger cousins come to visit (they are 9, 7, and 4) I tell their mom to bring their helmets if they want to ride Dakota. I make them wear helmets for the reason I stated above, that they are too young to decide for themselves yet. Since Dakota is my horse I think I get to make that decision for them under the circumstance. I'm not their parent, but I'm not willing to let them take that risk on my horse. They are beginner riders and very young, and accidents can happen. Dakota is a good horse and I trust him, but he is still a horse. And since both their mom and my mom agree that they need to wear their helmets it's a done deal.

However, I should probably also say that I am 17, and do not wear a helmet. When I was younger my parents made me but that stopped when I was 15. I think I've worn my helmet twice in the past two years. I still have it on my tackroom shelf in case I ever decide to put it on again, and I just might when I start working with Beauty in the spring because she hasn't been ridden much at all this winter and I'm anticipating some issues. But if I decide not to that's my decision. I'm old enough to understand the risks, and it's one I'm willing to take.
If a person wants to wear a helmet that's great. It's a smart choice, one I probably should make but just choose not too. I don't think it makes a person any more or less "brave" if they do wear a helmet. It's just a matter of whether or not it's risk they want to take.

Even when I was little I don't remember ever wearing helmets when I rode bikes or roller skated. I grew up on a farm with lots of animals and spent my childhood running all over our property playing games my big brother and I cooked up with our own immaginations. The only babysitter willing to tromp through the woods and fields to keep up with us was Lady, the most amazing Collie dog ever who watched out for us. We were homeschooled, helped our parents work on the farm and around the house, took care of the animals and saw goat kids and kittens born on a regular bases. We also learned to shoot (guns) very young. I think I was 7 when I got my BB gun, but my dad taught me to shoot for real not long after that. Always supervised and always putting safety first of course, but that's something that alot of parents would never let their children do.

The point to all that is that growing up my brother and I had freedom. Our parents are protective, but they let us expereince life and learn from our mistakes. Sure we got bumps and bruises sometimes but we survived and we grew up a little tougher because of it. The farm was out playground and we could do whatever we wanted as long as we got our chores done and stayed on the property.

With that said, I admit that when I'm in town and around people I do a lot of cringing because of some of the things I see parents let their kids do. I am a bit of a worry wart when it comes to little kids, so when I see a toddler walking across a parking lot, trailing six feet or so behind his mom where she can't even see him let alone grab him if a car suddenly started backing out, that makes me very nervous. I think she should have been holding his hand or at least had him within arms reach, but I don't get to make that decision. There isn't a "must hold the hand of children under ___ years of age when in parking lots or crossing the street" law. And it would be crazy if there was.
That's just an example, but I think you get the picture. If that were my kid or my brother or sister or whatever, I wouldn't let them get that far away from me in that situation (just like my parents never would have done with me). But it's the parents' decision, and I won't lecture them about it.



Once laws like this begin to be introduced, where does it stop? When do they say 'OK, we've regulated the free will of our people now so we'll leave them alone'? Regulation, supposedly for our own protection is like a giant snowball covered in spikes. Once it starts on its path, the only things that can stop it are its own weight or when it hits an immovable force.



I agree 100%. The goverment is entirely too involved in our lives as it is. We do not need more laws that take away any more of our freedom.

[missyfritz]

I agree with helmets being required for children, especially those who are too young to make their own decisions. I rode with a helmet from the time I started riding when I was 10 until I was about 17. My mom let me make my own decision then. I had a really bad scare riding without a helmet. I didn't fall, but if I would have it would have meant minor brain damage at least. I now ride with a helmet again. It's my choice to ride with one now, but I wouldn't have it any other way. The camp I work at requires helmets too. We're not even allowed to have the kids in the arena with the horses unless they have one on. It's just a safety issue. :)

And as for those saying "We never had those when we were growing up!"...you also might not have had seatbelts. They're there for safety. You had lead based paint, that changed. Safety regulations changes with the times. I don't think a helmet should be any different.

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

My bad :p. I thought that the BHS guidelines had been added into law when they amended it about riding two-abreast on roads :).

just double checked the highway code.

Safety equipment. Children under the age of 14 MUST wear a helmet which complies with the Regulations. It MUST be fastened securely. Other riders should also follow these requirements. These requirements do not apply to a child who is a follower of the Sikh religion while wearing a turban.


should, it's one of those infernal highway code-type recommendations, neither enforcable by law, nor could it become so, on the grounds it's not passed as through the commons etc


:)

[Pinky]

just double checked the highway code.

Safety equipment. Children under the age of 14 MUST wear a helmet which complies with the Regulations. It MUST be fastened securely. Other riders should also follow these requirements. These requirements do not apply to a child who is a follower of the Sikh religion while wearing a turban.


should, it's one of those infernal highway code-type recommendations, neither enforcable by law, nor could it become so, on the grounds it's not passed as through the commons etc

Thank you for setting me straight :). You never quite know what commons manage to sneak into their law making - they now want to reverse the hunting ban :p.

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

Thank you for setting me straight :). You never quite know what commons manage to sneak into their law making - they now want to reverse the hunting ban :p.


sneaky they are indeed! yea i'd heard...

makes me want to storm the place and bash their heads together ;)

make up your minds people!

[IrisGreen]

If we have to chose freedom of choice over forced law for something that should be common since then imagine how many people wouldn't even buy child safety seats or make there kids buckle up in the car? Have you ever seen a kid bouncing around in a car and the parent just allows it, doesn't tell them to sit there butts down and buckle up? Did you think that parent was just choosing freedom of choice and didn't care if they got a ticket? Did you not think to yourself as you were watching that kid lose in a moving car that the parent was not a good parent, didn't care about the kids safety?

I think parents that make there kids wear helmets are just taking that extra step to try to keep there kids safe and to teach them good safety habits, the kids can have there freedom of choice latter. Parents should be the teachers of good common since and basic safety precautions so there kid lives to see the day when he/she can have there own freedom of choice. Tell then, it's up to the parents to set good standards and I feel helmets on kids is a no brainer....But, I also get upset when parents let there kids be lose in a moving vehicle but I guess it's there choice, there kids and there life.....But, it doesn't stop me from rolling down my window and voicing my disgust in there lack of basic parental instinct to do all they can to keep there own child safe.

[DarkHorse]

I agree with what jeezitsjacki and missyfritz said. I was required to wear a helmet when I started riding and when I turned 18 its was no longer required so I stopped, but then after a scare I found one that I liked and have been wearing when I ride since. I do not think it should be required by law, but common sense should be taken into account. If the rider is very young one should be worn to protect them from injury as in my experience they will take more risks when riding which leads to more falls.

[HoustonFarrier]

For the neck, none has been invented yet.

Uh...you might want to look into NASCAR, as well as monster truck racing, they have them.

Steve

[HoustonFarrier]

steel toed boots (big no no around horses, but just sayin').

Mythbusters debunked that steel toe old wives tale:), plus, I've had 2400lb horse stomp on my steel toes, non-problemo:D

The times my feet have been hurt have been when I was NOT wearing steel toes.

Steve

[Equine_Woman]

Uh...you might want to look into NASCAR, as well as monster truck racing, they have them.

Steve

Do they have one available for equestrians? Cause if they do I'll make my kid wear one. I'm trying to find him a vest to ride in right now. Thinking about getting a bull rider vest. .. just need to find one that will fit him. It was my trainer's idea. . .

[All4Grace]

If we have to chose freedom of choice over forced law for something that should be common since then imagine how many people wouldn't even buy child safety seats or make there kids buckle up in the car? Have you ever seen a kid bouncing around in a car and the parent just allows it, doesn't tell them to sit there butts down and buckle up? Did you think that parent was just choosing freedom of choice and didn't care if they got a ticket? Did you not think to yourself as you were watching that kid lose in a moving car that the parent was not a good parent, didn't care about the kids safety?

I think parents that make there kids wear helmets are just taking that extra step to try to keep there kids safe and to teach them good safety habits, the kids can have there freedom of choice latter. Parents should be the teachers of good common since and basic safety precautions so there kid lives to see the day when he/she can have there own freedom of choice. Tell then, it's up to the parents to set good standards and I feel helmets on kids is a no brainer....But, I also get upset when parents let there kids be lose in a moving vehicle but I guess it's there choice, there kids and there life.....But, it doesn't stop me from rolling down my window and voicing my disgust in there lack of basic parental instinct to do all they can to keep there own child safe.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Where I live I see young children, under 6yrs of age, out riding without helmets on a daily basis. Every time I cringe, I agree a parent should take that extra step to help protect their children. At our place the kids have helmets for everything, riding, scootering and biking. I got a new bike for christmas, I also got a bike helmet, I never wore a helmet while riding bikes before but I do now, why? Because I want my sister's kids to see me following the same rules my sister enforces with them on safety. I don't like my bike helmet, it's not very comfy but you know what I'd rather deal with a little discomfort and re-enforce safe biking. We all have riding helmets, I love mine, it's pretty, light and I feel more off balance WITHOUT it then anything else.

To be honest I was always confused with the argument that helmets throw off your balance. If anyone can enlighten me on that one I'd be grateful. they are so light now a days, I can't see how they could throw your balance off.

I don't force my opinion on helmet safety on anyone, however, if you are my student or you are riding my horses I require a helmet... NO MATTER YOUR AGE!! I've had my friend whom is in her 50's riding Hazel, I made her wear a helmet. My horse, my rules.

I am too still waiting to hear someone explain why they don't make their kids wear helmets. I'm just curious to know their logic behind it, not so I can try to belittle them just so I can try to UNDERSTAND why?

[shewasmyshadow]

If we have to chose freedom of choice over forced law for something that should be common since then imagine how many people wouldn't even buy child safety seats or make there kids buckle up in the car? Have you ever seen a kid bouncing around in a car and the parent just allows it, doesn't tell them to sit there butts down and buckle up? Did you think that parent was just choosing freedom of choice and didn't care if they got a ticket? Did you not think to yourself as you were watching that kid lose in a moving car that the parent was not a good parent, didn't care about the kids safety?

I think parents that make there kids wear helmets are just taking that extra step to try to keep there kids safe and to teach them good safety habits, the kids can have there freedom of choice latter. Parents should be the teachers of good common since and basic safety precautions so there kid lives to see the day when he/she can have there own freedom of choice. Tell then, it's up to the parents to set good standards and I feel helmets on kids is a no brainer....But, I also get upset when parents let there kids be lose in a moving vehicle but I guess it's there choice, there kids and there life.....But, it doesn't stop me from rolling down my window and voicing my disgust in there lack of basic parental instinct to do all they can to keep there own child safe.

That stuff, to some degree, comes down to education. That's why I think informative ads are a good idea. We don't need more laws. We need citizen driven education on these subjects.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Thank you :)

And Allie, I consider you closer to the "adult" category although you are 17, it is very close to 18, the leagal cut off here... (forgive me for my ignorance, but it's the same where you live, right? I'm just curious :D) What really distresses me is seeing very young children, especially bareback, running loose in the arena with dogs/other horses loose as well, without a helmet or people around. The lack of a helmet with young children is the main issue I take. I personally will make my children wear helmets until they turn 18, and then it will be their descision. I respect the opinions of, although don't agree with or understand, others who don't. I wasn't trying to knock you in any way, though. I want to be clear about that :)

Dakota, this applies to you as well. I see you as more in the "adult" catagory, able to think and reason and make your own descisions regardin safety. :)

HoustonFarrier- Those braces wouldn't be so great for horseback riding :p

IrisGreen, All4Grace, Kudos to you for setting a good example and standing up for your beliefs! :clap:

Shewasmyshadow- I totally agree.

[JackieB]

FWIW, I'm far too old and out of fashion in every other regard for 'cool' to be part of my thinking. I don't like hats of any kind, especially those with a chin strap. I don't forget they're there, they bug me constantly. So I just go without.... and that's the only reason why.

Now hubby, who actually likes hats... maybe he should wear one. :) His choice :)

That's why I said "vast majority" rather than "all".

[HoustonFarrier]

Do they have one available for equestrians? Cause if they do I'll make my kid wear one. I'm trying to find him a vest to ride in right now. Thinking about getting a bull rider vest. .. just need to find one that will fit him. It was my trainer's idea. . .

I doubt if it is "equestrian" only.....would it really mattered if it works?

It's basically a big donut around the neck, with straps to the helmet, to keep the neck from over-flexing and snapping. Although they do wear a different type of helmet, more like a motorcycle helmet than a bed-pan with padding:D I cannot see how they are better than a motorcycle helmet ? I guess fashion has it's place, huh :)

Steve

[Equine_Woman]

Isn't your neck flexing required in the art of riding?

[FlapJack]

Where does it end. Helmets, neck protector, chest protector, arm protection, leg protection, steel toed boots (big no no around horses, but just sayin').

I've sorta been skimming this thread but I just read this and am curious why steel toed boots are not good?

[HoustonFarrier]

I've sorta been skimming this thread but I just read this and am curious why steel toed boots are not good?

Old wives tale that says a horse steps on the steel toe, it'll crush and cut your toes off....not true though.

Steve

[cheval]

Mythbusters debunked that steel toe old wives tale:), plus, I've had 2400lb horse stomp on my steel toes, non-problemo:D

The times my feet have been hurt have been when I was NOT wearing steel toes.

Steve

Seriously? We weren't allowed to use them when I worked at UPS so I just assumed that around a big fat horse would be equally bad!!! Good to know, but I think I'd be too wary to test it!!

[Dakota Sunrise]

Dakota, this applies to you as well. I see you as more in the "adult" catagory, able to think and reason and make your own descisions regardin safety. :)

:)

My reason for not wearing a helmet really doesn't have much to do with fashion or because I think it's "uncool" to wear one in a western saddle. The helmet I have does make my head look big and is not exactly the "cowgirl look" I like (lol:p), but I don't really care about that. I ride alone most of the time anyway and I doubt my horses would laugh at me.;) :p
My reason for not wearing a helmet is because I like to feel the wind in my hair. That is honestly why. In the summer there is nothing better than a cool breeze blowing through my hair on a bareback & and barefoot trail ride, or galloping so fast my eyes start to water and my hair streams out behind me. I like that feeling. It makes me feel free.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I learned something new today... About the steel toed boots :)

[Dakota Sunrise]

I learned something new today... About the steel toed boots :)

Me too.:) I've never heard of that before. Very interesting.

[palomino]

London doesnt wear a helmet yet- but she is just riding with me on the horse too. When she gets to where she is riding alone, she will more than likely ride one, more because of the fear that I will be personally attacked for being a horrible parent than the idea that she might get a boo boo. Plus its the rules in ANY minor riding program, ie: Pony Club, 4H, OHSET, etc.
If it was up to me, we would all be playing with lawn darts in the backyard in our steel radio flyer wagons and tonka trucks, then go to the store in the 'ol Roadrunner with no seatbelts and eat things made from real BUTTER and POTATOES.....
Its amazing that we arent all dead from the 70s and 80s before everyone got all fuzzy wuzzy and scared to death of the tiniest bump or bruise.

I could wrap London in bubble wrap I suppose, but what would happen when I popped all the bubbles.......

[palomino]

I would be interested to know how many fatalities there are from being thrown from a horse now as opposed to, say 1988 or so.

[WashingtonBay]

I saw the Myth Busters with the steel toed boots. If you have OSHA approved boots, you are much better off with them than without them in any circumstance with crushing. The amount of force required to crush the boots is so high (much much much higher than a horse), you wouldn't have toes without them.

[cheval]

I would be interested to know how many fatalities there are from being thrown from a horse now as opposed to, say 1988 or so.

I agree. With all the horses I crawled on no, saddle, no bridle and without Grandpa or Gram knowing, it's a wonder if made it out of my childhood alive.

[TheJFactor&Fergie<3]

I saw the Myth Busters with the steel toed boots. If you have OSHA approved boots, you are much better off with them than without them in any circumstance with crushing. The amount of force required to crush the boots is so high (much much much higher than a horse), you wouldn't have toes without them.

It surprises me that this myth kicked around for so long. this is pretty basic physics and a degree of common sense (to my mind) i'm glad that it's being laid to rest though :)

[Tiz]

OK, that just about wraps this one up. What do you want to talk about next?:p

[Rabid_Raccoon]

OK, that just about wraps this one up. What do you want to talk about next?:p

:p This is the longest and most "controversial" thread I've ever started. It took off way more than I thought it would and I couldn't keep up! I guess that's what happens when you speak your opinion.

I hope there are no hard feelings towards me because of it, I don't have any grudges against any of you :)

[cheval]

It surprises me that this myth kicked around for so long. this is pretty basic physics and a degree of common sense (to my mind) i'm glad that it's being laid to rest though :)

Well, I don't have the same common sense as you obviously.

Palomino - don't bring up butter now - you'll start a whole new discussion on how not to kill yourself by way of yummy buttered taters!

[palomino]

:p This is the longest and most "controversial" thread I've ever started. It took off way more than I thought it would and I couldn't keep up! I guess that's what happens when you speak your opinion.

I hope there are no hard feelings towards me because of it, I don't have any grudges against any of you :)


Youre fine! :) Everyone has opinions.

[cheval]

I agree. Everyone is entitled to their wrong opinions.

http://x0e.xanga.com/e1d013770373180943170/t1717218.gif

[Equine_Woman]

I agree. Everyone is entitled to their wrong opinions.

http://x0e.xanga.com/e1d013770373180943170/t1717218.gif
Yep even you.

Opps. . edited cause I forgot the smiley face!:p

[WashingtonBay]

I agree. Everyone is entitled to their wrong opinions.

http://x0e.xanga.com/e1d013770373180943170/t1717218.gif

I thought that rule was only for the political forum ;) :p

[WashingtonBay]

What was that about butter?

[cheval]

I don't go there anymore (with the exception of one post today because my brother and I were talking about his waterboarding experience last night).

[Equine_Woman]

I totally had one of these moments earlier.. . .
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ecurbh/humor/62AE9385A17341A28621B30C5BA8784F.jpg

Only my husband came and was like "Say this! or say THAT!" lol. I need to get him his very own account here I think.

[cheval]

What was that about butter?

Butter is the new helmet.

[JackieB]

:catfight:

[cheval]

Yep even you.

Opps. . edited cause I forgot the smiley face!:p

Uh, yeah, it was a joke, hence the smiley.

[WashingtonBay]

Only my husband came and was like "Say this! or say THAT!" lol. I need to get him his very own account here I think.

Yes... Husbands are encouraged around here :cheers:

[WashingtonBay]

Butter is the new helmet.

Butter would make a perfectly lousy helmet :coffee:

[cheval]

It's a Happy Bunny thing. Hear that sound? That's the sound of no one caring what you think.

Gotta love those bunnies! :hysterical:

[shewasmyshadow]

Now that it's calmed down I'll go ahead and taddle on myself.

I jumped on a 4 yr old supposedly "green" horse at the auction on Saturday without a helmet!! *ducks head* Guess what, I'm still alive. :D Ask Farmers_wife. I'll ride anything. :p

[cheval]

Butter would make a perfectly lousy helmet :coffee:

You're just hatin'.

[cheval]

Now that it's calmed down I'll go ahead and taddle on myself.

I jumped on a 4 yr old supposedly "green" horse at the auction on Saturday without a helmet!! *ducks head* Guess what, I'm still alive. :D Ask Farmers_wife. I'll ride anything. :p

And you lived to tell the tale? O.M.G. That's shocking!

[shewasmyshadow]

Oooh, I love butter. I'd probably wear that type helmet more if it tasted yummy. :)

[shewasmyshadow]

And you lived to tell the tale? O.M.G. That's shocking!

I know. :p Can you believe that. It's not the first time and it certainly won't be the last.

[Equine_Woman]

Uh, yeah, it was a joke, hence the smiley.

I knew that silly!! That's why I edited again to add my smiley!

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I totally had one of these moments earlier.. . .
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ecurbh/humor/62AE9385A17341A28621B30C5BA8784F.jpg

Only my husband came and was like "Say this! or say THAT!" lol. I need to get him his very own account here I think.

Do it! :) And I love that little comic, XD

[IrisGreen]

I like how some of you bring up the "when I was a kid" but don't stop to think WHY they seemed fit to make laws to prevent accidents that happened more frequently "when you were a kid"? It's like saying, "Hey, we used to play with Murcury when I was a kid so I don't think it's bad to let my kids do it or We had lead paint whats the big deal? Our car didn't have safety belts in the back seat growing up so why should I make my kids buckle up?

I also find it funny when some of you say "I survived as a kid with out a helmet just fine, riding my bike, scooter and so on" but how many kids didn't? It's nice that your hear to tell us you lived but the laws were made because of the lives that were being lost and might have been prevented if there parents wouldn't have waited for a law to tell them to put a helmet on there kid.

"If we could have known then what we know now....."

[shewasmyshadow]

I like how some of you bring up the "when I was a kid" but don't stop to think WHY they seemed fit to make laws to prevent accidents that happened more frequently "when you were a kid"? It's like saying, "Hey, we used to play with Murcury when I was a kid so I don't think it's bad to let my kids do it or We had lead paint whats the big deal? Our car didn't have safety belts in the back seat growing up so why should I make my kids buckle up?

I also find it funny when some of you say "I survived as a kid with out a helmet just fine, riding my bike, scooter and so on" but how many kids didn't? It's nice that your hear to tell us you lived but the laws were made because of the lives that were being lost and might have been prevented if there parents wouldn't have waited for a law to tell them to put a helmet on there kid.

"If we could have known then what we know now....."

When the laws are forced into existence and not enforced they helpful to no one. Education reaches the vast majority much more effectively.

[Equine_Woman]

When the laws are forced into existence and not enforced they helpful to no one. Education reaches the vast majority much more effectively.

I don't know. . the seat belt one seems to be helping quite a bit and that whole lead based paint thing helped too!

[cheval]

Because it's the truth. I imagine a lot of how we are defined as adults are because of how we grew up. If that was without helmets, or seat belts or bubble wrap. Would I use a helmet know if I had grown up using them? I don't know. But regardless of if its me or if I had kids, it's my choice and thankfully parents still get some say when it comes to what should be done with their kids. Even if that includes not wearing one.

You can find an example for everything. Helmets kill, helmets save lives. Seat belts kill, seat belts save lives.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I don't know. . the seat belt one seems to be helping quite a bit and that whole lead based paint thing helped too!


What about the "click it or ticket" campaign? Sure, that's based off of a law that was passed, but they also used the media to educate people instead of just making it a law. I remember when I was younger, in a car of friends who didn't wear seat belts, I was often too embarassed to buckle up. Now I just say "Well, if we crash I guess I'll be the only one who lives" or make some joke about "With your driving? Ha. I'm wearing a seat belt." And wear it. I haven't thought about how much the media played into that vs. how much of it was just my own personal maturity, but it's interesting to think about. Maybe the same thing can be done with helmets. Maybe we can make it more socially acceptable to wear one without offending those who don't, like with the seatbelt thing. Or, on the same note, the whole "antidrug" campaign is similar. Not that I'm comparing horse riding without a helmet to doing drugs, but still. Little tangent...

[shewasmyshadow]

I don't know. . the seat belt one seems to be helping quite a bit and that whole lead based paint thing helped too!

If people were educated properly on lead paint, then no one would buy it and the company would be forced to change.

I'm not saying lead paint should be legal. I'm just saying that in theory education should work pretty well.

[shewasmyshadow]

What about the "click it or ticket" campaign? Sure, that's based off of a law that was passed, but they also used the media to educate people instead of just making it a law. I remember when I was younger, in a car of friends who didn't wear seat belts, I was often too embarassed to buckle up. Now I just say "Well, if we crash I guess I'll be the only one who lives" or make some joke about "With your driving? Ha. I'm wearing a seat belt." And wear it. I haven't thought about how much the media played into that vs. how much of it was just my own personal maturity, but it's interesting to think about. Maybe the same thing can be done with helmets. Maybe we can make it more socially acceptable to wear one without offending those who don't, like with the seatbelt thing. Or, on the same note, the whole "antidrug" campaign is similar. Not that I'm comparing horse riding without a helmet to doing drugs, but still. Little tangent...

I think you're on to something. Educate, but don't force it. Make it more socially acceptable, so that those who want to can. :)

[cheval]

The war on drugs campaign doesn't seem to be doing much actually.

I'd rather talk about butter helmets.... http://xf0.xanga.com/d5d81171d4c0093724085/t3293073.gif

[Equine_Woman]

If people were educated properly on lead paint, then no one would buy it and the company would be forced to change.

I'm not saying lead paint should be legal. I'm just saying that in theory education should work pretty well.

That's not true. There is a ton of education out there about smoking being bad. People still do it. Or Drinking being bad. . .people still do that too.

Besides, where do the funds for that education come from? Non profit organizations are often limited. Sure the parents of kids who die from not wearing helmets would get on the bandwagon and help pay for education but would that be enough? I don't know. Helmet wearing in western sports still has a stigma attached in our society. Who knows one day maybe it will be as acceptable as wearing a cowboy hat. I certainly hope it will cause I can't watch when the little kids fall off at my riding club without a helmet. It's them I'll be sorry for if something bad happens, the same as I would feel sorry for a kid injured in a car wreck who wasn't wearing the seat belt.

[IrisGreen]

When the laws are forced into existence and not enforced they helpful to no one. Education reaches the vast majority much more effectively.

True, I'm not saying there should be a law for kids to wear helmets on horses. I'm saying it should be common since to put a helmet on young children.... It's sad that people would even need a law to remind them it's probably a good idea to have your child wear a helmet.

[cheval]

Again, it's your opinion that a child should wear a helmet. Not everyone's. That's the whole point. Parents get to decide what's best and have the right to do so. Whether you like that decision or not.

[mandisue]

Mine wear a helmet when riding, and I did until I turned 18 and no longer "had" to. I've had some bad falls, but luckily enough none were head injurys, or I'd probably be skeered enough to wear one now.
However if I'm riding younger horse that i'm not sure of , or an older one that I am not sure of, i will wear one.

[shewasmyshadow]

That's not true. There is a ton of education out there about smoking being bad. People still do it. Or Drinking being bad. . .people still do that too.

Besides, where do the funds for that education come from? Non profit organizations are often limited. Sure the parents of kids who die from not wearing helmets would get on the bandwagon and help pay for education but would that be enough? I don't know. Helmet wearing in western sports still has a stigma attached in our society. Who knows one day maybe it will be as acceptable as wearing a cowboy hat. I certainly hope it will cause I can't watch when the little kids fall off at my riding club without a helmet. It's them I'll be sorry for if something bad happens, the same as I would feel sorry for a kid injured in a car wreck who wasn't wearing the seat belt.

It comes from the exact same place that government funding comes from. Your pocket.

[prissy18]

:)I wear a hement. My parents have never made me. I choose to because I know what my horse can and often will do. Like yeah sometimes I dont but that was when I had a safe inclosed area. Now I almost always wear one. When I barrel race I always have it on. Yeah I look like a goof but I am safe. Its now a 4h rule in my state you must wear one anytime mounted at shows. Given it is the parents choice I made my own after a nasty fall where I got a concussion and had a masive headache for many days. My head bounced. I was young and dumb. All I ask is that people be safe while riding.:)

[lisakaye]

In all my many years of horses and now Katie with hers I strongly believe in helmets. If Katie didn't have her helmet on last summer when her horse (not Easter) threw her she would be dead. She competed heavily in Utah over the summer in many gymkhanas and rodeo where she was the ONLY one wearing a helmet. The night she was thrown and wound up in the ER the lady whose horse she was on made the comment that "I am glad she had her helmet on..." needles to say her 10 Y O daughter didn't. I just responded with saying Yeah.. at least it wasn't **** cause she would've been dead. I do not understand how parents can let their kids ride especially in speed and jumping without a helmet.. and bike helmets ARE NOT an acceptabe option either..

[3equines]

I cover MY arse :when anybody rides my horses they have a helmet on their head, that doesn't mean I choose to wear one but I am straight up about it - at 18, it is free choice, and on YOUR OWN HORSE it is free choice, but if you are on my horse (any age) and if you are under 18, the helmet goes on.

My boyfreind is the only exception to the rule, because 1) can't win a fight with him and 2) he rides at his own risk.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I look like a tard but I am safe.
That should be my slogan ;)

And I'm glad you wear a helmet!!!

Lisakaye- I'm really glad Katie is okay! :)

[AppyLover]

Rabbid: First off you are an 18 year old child so for you to think you have ANY right to tell me how to raise my child is BS. So if you think your little rant gilts me into being a better parent FU. You have no right to judge me or anyone else on how we raise our children so keep your noise out of PARENTAL responsibilities when you are not a parent. Tell you what go get yourself knocked up so then you can be all high and mighty and raise your child better than any of us parents.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Rabbid: First off you are an 18 year old child so for you to think you have ANY right to tell me how to raise my child is BS. So if you think your little rant gilts me into being a better parent FU. You have no right to judge me or anyone else on how we raise our children so keep your noise out of PARENTAL responsibilities when you are not a parent. Tell you what go get yourself knocked up so then you can be all high and mighty and raise your child better than any of us parents.

Um.... Wow. :huh: Okay then.

[palomino]

WOW. Did someone hack appys account??

[palomino]

I think shes been hacked- check the language and tone and spelling- not her.

[palomino]

LOL @ 'gilt'.

[miatapony]

well come sunday my child will be rideing one of my moms horses and not in a helmet i dont belive in them and neither does my child. She has fallen off horses and has been thrown also and she is still here soo .. i dont see the need for one. they are a fase sence of security. it will not help you is you fall on your A** and break a hip or a shoulder it wont help in any way. i agree with Appylover.

[AppyLover]

No It is me and I take full responsibility for EVERYTHING written. Even the bad spell checker. She pissed me off and that is where I stand.

[palomino]

WOW I have never seen you so pissed.

[prissy18]

Rabbid: First off you are an 18 year old child so for you to think you have ANY right to tell me how to raise my child is BS. So if you think your little rant gilts me into being a better parent FU. You have no right to judge me or anyone else on how we raise our children so keep your noise out of PARENTAL responsibilities when you are not a parent. Tell you what go get yourself knocked up so then you can be all high and mighty and raise your child better than any of us parents.

As she has stated its her opnion and she is stating it. Its freedom just as you have the freedom to not make you child not wear a helmet or have to freedom to drive. I think that was a not called for also sorta rude. I am only 16 and mean no disrespect but yeah.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

"If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all..."

*Zips lips*

:innocent:

[miatapony]

well i think it was called for this is how Appylover feels so get over it prissy and let it go

[AppyLover]

Prissy Back off My opinion is already low of you.

[AppyLover]

"If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all..."

*Zips lips*

:innocent:

And I think you should have followed your own quote.

[prissy18]

Prissy Back off My opinion is already low of you.

I will back off. and I feel the same.

[miatapony]

"If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all..."

*Zips lips*

:innocent:

Then this thred should not have been started in the first place.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I was reffering to responding to a person, not to an issue.

I have no problem attacking an issue I believe is wrong. I do have a problem attacking a person. Therefore, I say nothing. The fact that you just personally attacked Prissy bothers me though. That was kind of mean.

[mare]

I didn't make my kids wear helmets when they were little. I was very involved with their learning to ride, though. Wearing a helmet considering the tempurature and duration of our rides would have been inviting heat stroke.

The only time any of us do use helmets is if we're riding some spoiled, snotty thing for someone in a round corral. I don't like round corrals at all, but will use one if the owner is paying enough for a show.

[AppyLover]

I was reffering to responding to a person, not to an issue.

I have no problem attacking an issue I believe is wrong. I do have a problem attacking a person. Therefore, I say nothing. The fact that you just personally attacked Prissy bothers me though. That was kind of mean.

I never claimed to be nice. And for you to think just giving a blanket statement against all parents just proves how arragant and young you really are. So I think you should quit while ahead.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Wearing a helmet considering the tempurature and duration of our rides would have been inviting heat stroke.

I've never considered that. I know there are helmets with vents, but I've never had any personal experiences with them so I can't say how well they would work.

[prissy18]

That should be my slogan ;)

And I'm glad you wear a helmet!!!



Haha its true though.

[mare]

I've never considered that. I know there are helmets with vents, but I've never had any personal experiences with them so I can't say how well they would work.

A lady who rode on one gather bought one especially for that day. She still overheated with the foam substance that lined the edges and her ears were sunburnt by 11:30 or 12 when she took it off. Her face was beat red, her heart rate was up (didn't offer to check her temp with the only thermometer the rancher had in his medicine kit - large animal rectal!). We made her eat salty stuff and drink warmish water until she felt better.

Somebody had a couple nasty old straw hats in their truck and she went to one of them for the afternoon.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Mare, that's crazy! I'm glad she was okay. What are the temperatures like where you are? I would probably move! :p

[gabhainn]

But to steal Vicky's word chit happens!
yup sure does look at Christopher Reeves and he was wearing a damn helmet!!! Life is messy folks and you get hurt. Its just the way of the world, very few helmets are designed to fit small children and a poorly fitted helmet is far far worse than no helmet.
I NEVER said you shouldnt do what you feel is right, and EW if you feel its right to put Wyatt in a helmet go right ahead. I do think that we are turning the children of this country soft, my sister lives on Amelia Island in Fla. do you know they outlawed trampolines? Somebody might get hurt, if you are under 18 and you are on skates, a skate board, or a bike without a helmet (knee and elbow pads for the skates and skateboard) its a 500 dollar fine first offense, 1000 dollar second and third the parent goes to jail for neglect. Absolutely ridiculous!!! so you know what the kids there do?.....Nothing, they sit on the couch and watch tv and get fat and soft because somebody has legislated all the fun out of being a kid.
As a parent I didnt force my kids to wear a helmet, and it had nothing to do with peer pressure, or fear of mockery. I didnt do it because to be honest the thought never crossed my mind to do so. If I dont believe it is an issue for MY kid to wear a helmet, why should it be to you. I dont give you any grief for putting one on yours I am not trying to make you conform to my beliefs but you insist on trying to make me conform to yours.
I never once said anyone was a bad parent for putting one on their child, but I was asked for my opinion and I gave it........Kevin

[oursarge]

:)I wear a hement. My parents have never made me. I choose to because I know what my horse can and often will do. Like yeah sometimes I dont but that was when I had a safe inclosed area. Now I almost always wear one. When I barrel race I always have it on. Yeah I look like a tard but I am safe. Its now a 4h rule in my state you must wear one anytime mounted at shows. Given it is the parents choice I made my own after a nasty fall where I got a concussion and had a masive headache for many days. My head bounced. I was young and dumb. All I ask is that people be safe while riding.:)

I'm glad you wear a helmet but it really isn't nice to say what you think you look like. There are too many mentally challenged people in this world who are struggling and that word just bothers me big time. I always say something when someone calls someone retarded etc. I don't like it. I know this has nothing to do with helmets but it bothers me alot to see those words.

I know a boy who struggled and just when things were going decent for him he died of a brain anurysm. When I hear someone call someone retarded or a tard that reminds me of how he struggled through life only to have a half decent life that was ended too soon. It makes me very sad. He was also a horse lover and used to come visit my Dommie, now they are both gone. I'd rather someone swearing on here than using those words. I know I'm not the language police but felt the need to say something.

[Tatesgram]

Whew, who knew helmets could stir up so much emotion? I agree with gabhainn, and a few others. But the thing that comes to mind is "how many things do kids engage in that is not only dangerous, but possibly deadly?" Gymnastics, I've seen some very nasty falls. Monkey bars, broken teeth, arms and heads. Baseball, getting hit with that ball can cause some serious injuries. The list could go on and on, reminds me of the commercial with the kid in the football helmit, shin and arm guards and a catchers protective vest and then his mom hands him a tennis racket.

We cannot and should not protect our kids from everything that "might" hurt them. We want them to experience life, and they can't do that if we restrain their every move. And I will fight with my last breathe if the government tries to tell me I have to put a helmet on anyone.

To me, helmets are a choice. No one that wears a helmet where I ride feels uncomfortable or embarrassed to wear one, it's a personal choice.

[HoustonFarrier]

Okay, so lets take it back to the point. Why as a parent would you NOT make your child wear a helmet? Leave out all the law talk. I'm really curious as to WHY people don't chose to have their child wear a helmet?

FACTS:
Because it will not protect them from a broken neck or face injuries, eye injuries, ear injuries. You will STILL get a concussion in a helmet, just as without. The helmet really only protects the head if it strikes a rock. If you are kicked in the head hard enough to cause damage, the helmet will not help any, it'll break. The entire side of the head is open to be stepped on, the face is wide open to be kicked.

OPINION:
If, as a parent, you REALLY wanted to protect, you'd be in a full head helmet with DOT ratings, with a steel face guard like some in the rodeo wear. The equestrian helmets are nothing more, IMHO, that a feeeeeeeeel good item. It provides the minimal amount of protection and is in fashion with what others in the equestrian community wear. They basically keep your head from getting skinned up. I think you'll get far more protection from training your horse better.:)

Don't get mad at me, you asked, I answered:p

Steve

[Rabid_Raccoon]

oursage- I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to offend, and I agree that it was the wrong word to use. I was wrong. Those words are so often used that we forget they have real meanings and should not be used as insults. I try to avoid language that offends people, but I forget sometimes. Please forgive my insensitivity :(

[mare]

Mare, that's crazy! I'm glad she was okay. What are the temperatures like where you are? I would probably move! :p

Probably over ninety and maybe into the low 100s. Not many trees in the better grazing areas of Wyoming. You might have wind, but being so dry it just hastens dehydration.

Some of the young ranchers will take their kids out in the early mornings. They'll pony them off a solid horse. Those little ones (3 to 5 years old) wear the ventilated helmets and are done by 10 in the morning. They're cute as heck.

[prissy18]

I'm glad you wear a helmet but it really isn't nice to say what you think you look like. There are too many mentally challenged people in this world who are struggling and that word just bothers me big time. I always say something when someone calls someone retarded etc. I don't like it. I know this has nothing to do with helmets but it bothers me alot to see those words.

.

I am sorry. I will go change it. I understand where you are coming from. Sorry again

[HoustonFarrier]

Well, I don't have the same common sense as you obviously.


Well...you own a Percheron...soooo...:hysterical::hysterical: (running to put a helmet on...) :D

Steve

[Rabid_Raccoon]

Well...you own a Percheron...soooo...:hysterical::hysterical: (running to put a helmet on...) :D

Steve

OH so you'll wear a helmet for THAT will you???

Just kidding :D :cowboy:

[GrungeEquestrian]

Well I'll add my two cents.

Please remember this is coming from an 18 year old with no children of her own. But, I was sat on a horse when I was 5 years old and never wore a helmet until the last summer for the english classes. Since I started taking lessons when I was 8 I was educated how to properly dismount a horse, intentional or not. Since my first lesson I have had over twenty intentional and non-intentional dismounts and every single one I have either landed on my feet or butt. From dozens of emergency dismounts that I hated during lessons I taught myself to pretty much duck and cover. I react correctly to most of my dismounts and no helmet was worn.

So that is what I stand on helmets, I think they are a lot of times a false security and they should be a personal choice. Styrofoam is not going to do much with the amount of force a horse can throw you. And as Houston brought up what is going to save your neck? A neck injury or heck a broken arm if done a certain way can be fatal as well. I think it comes on educating young kids how to dismount, falls etc. And hate to be blunt but also experience as the saying goes, "Whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." As for parents I do not consider my parents horrible for never enforces putting a helmet on my head and heck I've survived. Riding a bike the speeds my younger brother did when he was younger was probably more dangerous anyway. As well as baseball or any other sport young children play. Sure they were helmets when they are batting but my older brother got a nice black eye when he was 10 from a line drive out to the outfield and almost lost his site.

So I guess it comes down to I think helmets should be a personal choice. We live in a dangerous world out there, people die from choking on sandwiches...everything has a risk. And if I died tomorrow riding horses, well I would be happy, I died doing something I loved.

[oursarge]

I'm glad you understand, to me that word is worse than swearing because I see so many of the people struggling. We have a therapudic riding place right near our house I can see their horses from our front field and what the people [adults and kids] go through to ride a horse is amazing. Some are only happy when on a horse. I just hate to see those words because it's just another thing to call someone that is hurtful.

I know they are the "new words" like when I was growing up people used to call everyone "queer" which I also hated. They become part of the language and people don't think twice about it but to me it's just sad especially when I think of Mike.

I do wear a helmet, I'm one of the few at our barn who wears one, actually the only other girl who does wear one is mentally challenged, she's 23 with the mentality of maybe 14 or so but she's such a sweet girl. She loves to ride and spends alot of time at the barn. What is funny is that people might look at her and think about how slow she is but yet some things she gets alot better than other people who are there. I wear my helmet 99% of the time, but one day while up in the arena I didn't plan to ride I was just holding horses my friend told me to ride her horse and canter him since his canter is so smooth, I did and rode for quite awhile then realized my helmet was in the truck. When I rode Rompy the first time he had only been ridden twice before ever and I didn't have a helmet on which wasn't the brightest thing I ever did but he was so good I didn't even think about it but since I have fallen on my head twice I do wear my helmet most times.

I didn't mean to cause a stir but that just hit me because I have been thinking about Mike the past few days and how sad it is that his life was cut short and I know kids called him names so when I saw that it hit me and I just felt I had to say something. Thanks for understanding.

[TheRedHayflinger]

I'm with you on that word sarge...I've got a younger brother and an uncle, both with Downs...and my 40 hour a week job is home health care for MR/DD clients.

[JackieB]

I'm glad you understand, to me that word is worse than swearing because I see so many of the people struggling.

I applaud both of them for their responses. They didn't mean anything with what they said, but when you pointed it out, they immediately understood why you were offended and apologized. Good job, RR and Prissy.

[jeezitsjacki]

I agree with Jackie B, shows how our forum really has mature teens :) Also I think rabbid is doing a good job not preaching but just listening to opions, which I think is what the thread is about, and I find both sides interesting

[JackieB]

FACTS:
... You will STILL get a concussion in a helmet, just as without.


Not necessarily, Steve. One of the really nasty things about head injuries is that you don't have to hit your head very hard to get a concussion. So a blow, even against sandy earth, that might have caused a concussion without a helmet definitely may end up with no injury at all with a helmet. A blow that cracks the helmet may lead to a concussion, but not a fractured skull.

It's all physics. The shell of the helmet and foam padding inside helps dissipate the energy before it gets to the skull, fluid around the brain, and then the brain.

[Rabid_Raccoon]

I applaud both of them for their responses. They didn't mean anything with what they said, but when you pointed it out, they immediately understood why you were offended and apologized. Good job, RR and Prissy.

I agree with Jackie B, shows how our forum really has mature teens :) Also I think rabbid is doing a good job not preaching but just listening to opions, which I think is what the thread is about, and I find both sides interesting

Aw. Thank you guys :) You're too nice. :o I'm very glad you don't think I sound preachy. And I find both sides interesting, too.

[3equines]

:headscratch:

oK I am a little confused about how a perfectly normal topic for discussion turned into such an angry, ugly, unfriendly conversation.

Name calling, swear words, etc -

Nobody deserves this kind of treatment, on line or in person.

I have enjoyed this forum for the diversity of people, opinions, experiences out there, and the ability for some very sensitive topics to be discussed in an adult manner.

It hurts me to see a thread turn into a catfight.