View Full Version : wow
I've been gone for awhile. Work has been killer, when I get home I'm ready to feed and go to sleep.
Got on because I have a couple of questions about pulling horses out of the mud.
My cousin(whos 15) had a horse stuck in the mud under the barn. the mud seriously was about 2 feet deep. pm me for pictures, its very sad to see. Older horse almost about 30, we honestly dug the mare out, but didn't have the strength to get up. We were waiting on a tractor to pull her out, so maybe she would get up in the grass and mud free zone.
I though the safest way while she was awake is sort of put a butt strap around her rear and have someone at her head. Well this old man (animal control) came with the dad so I just stepped back and listened, since I thought he knew how to deal with this better then me. They wrapped the tow strap around where the girth went, I couldn't watch it at all, the mud was way too deep. Then she wouldn't get up so they tried around the flanks. and lifted her with a tractor(just around the flanks). made me completely sick because she didnt have the strenght to lift herself alittle. My cousin asked what to do and I said to put her down and not to let her suffer anymore. The men thought they could put a tarp under her and see if she lasts the night. I went back to check the horse, and she wasn't reacting to my hand moving fast over her eyes but was breathing, she was gone and had a stroke/seizure (she didn't have problems breathing until after they pulled her out) about 5 seconds after I noticed the eye thing.
whats the best way to get a horse out like that, made me sick not knowing, and not able to figure it out. Maybe help other people Idunno
I don't need comments about how the area is, she knows she made a mistake, they weren't even suppose to get in there but one of the horses got the gates open.
This is here in the mud, its a direct link because I didn't want to post something where people could view it..
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq177/Runbabyrun_photo/1266425825.jpg
TheJFactor&Fergie<3
02-17-2010, 10:06 AM
i don't know the answer to your question, but it sounds a horrible situation to end up in. I hope your cousin is ok. :(
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 10:09 AM
Uhh.... Kara, this situation is awful, and far beyond seeking forum advice.
If she truly can't get up on her own, and someone wants to save that horse, I think they'll need a heavy machine, a veterinarian, law enforcement, and a lot of skilled people to help. Yesterday.
i don't know the answer to your question, but it sounds a horrible situation to end up in. I hope your cousin is ok. :(
She's fine, she was blaming herself and crying about it that night.. But she's ok now
Uhh.... Kara, this situation is awful, and far beyond seeking forum advice.
If she truly can't get up on her own, and someone wants to save that horse, I think they'll need a heavy machine, a veterinarian, law enforcement, and a lot of skilled people to help. Yesterday.
The horse is already dead and buried. I'm looking at this to see what would someone do if this came up ever again.
Not being mean, just freaked me out and made me think, we did get 12 inches of snow that we never had. So everything was crazy here
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 10:15 AM
I really don't care about the cousin's emotional state, to be honest. Sorry to say.
And Kara... Don't forget that my memory is long. You've had a history before of bringing us a big drama story about horses getting shot and your heroics to save them, that was completely made up. A lie.
There are some who thought you shouldn't have been allowed to come here, because of it. I did anyway, I gave you a chance. Am I about to be sorry about that? And don't get mad at my question, given the history, it's a fair one. And one I'll ask in public so your answer can also be public.
I really don't care about the cousin's emotional state, to be honest. Sorry to say.
And Kara... Don't forget that my memory is long. You've had a history before of bringing us a big drama story about horses getting shot and your heroics to save them, that was completely made up. A lie.
There are some who thought you shouldn't have been allowed to come here, because of it. I did anyway, I gave you a chance. Am I about to be sorry about that? And don't get mad at my question, given the history, it's a fair one. And one I'll ask in public so your answer can also be public.
I said if you want pictures pm me, but I'll put them up. No it wasn't a lie, and you need to pm me to find out the whole story, the bay roan I have isn't a fake and I didn't buy her.
here are the pics, but I guess I could be that good at photochop;)
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq177/Runbabyrun_photo/1266427022.jpg
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq177/Runbabyrun_photo/1266427036.jpg
look at the first post, I had the picture at the very bottom
I really don't care about the cousin's emotional state, to be honest. Sorry to say.
someone else was asking about my cousin, so sorry to say quit jumping on me.
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 10:25 AM
Just sayin'.... under the circumstances, if a horse suffered and died from neglect, the feelings of the owner are not my top interest, and I was saying so for the record.
And I hope you understand my skepticism. I don't usually doubt the stories brought here, but in this case, I have some cause for caution, and so do others.
If she truly can't get up on her own, and someone wants to save that horse, I think they'll need a heavy machine, a veterinarian, law enforcement, and a lot of skilled people to help. Yesterday.
We called the vet, they said either the back legs or head, but do everything slowly
we had a tractor, look at pictures
animal control was there
3 guys and 2 of us girls
Equine_Woman
02-17-2010, 10:25 AM
Wow. WB, easy! Seems like an honest question!! Lets not bring an old grudge into it!
The whole thing is very sad! I know that people have used things like sheets or things to spread the force of the rope out over much more distance but I've never had to do that. Our old horse Mack used to get down and not able to get up but he always eventually managed with some encouragement (lots and lots of encouragement) I knew a day was coming he wouldn't be able to. In a situation like the one you described I would have put the horse down probably rather than stress them out trying to pull them out. Most of the time animal control would know how to do something like this.
Just sayin'.... under the circumstances, if a horse suffered and died from neglect, the feelings of the owner are not my top interest, and I was saying so for the record.
And I hope you understand my skepticism. I don't usually doubt the stories brought here, but in this case, I have some cause for caution, and so do others.
Look at the pictures I posted, please? I understand but if you can't look at the pictures I already posted how can I prove anything.
edit I posted them on the next post
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq177/Runbabyrun_photo/1266425825.jpg
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq177/Runbabyrun_photo/1266427022.jpg
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq177/Runbabyrun_photo/1266427036.jpg
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 10:30 AM
Look at the pictures I posted, please? I understand but if you can't look at the pictures I already posted how can I prove anything.
Kara, I'm looking at pictures... I'm not sure what they prove.
The answer to the question is, to pull out a horse who can't get up, you need a large tractor, large straps and ropes, attached wherever you can put them, and a veterinarian on hand to treat exhaustion and whatever other causes made the horse go down in the first place.
The whole thing is very sad! I know that people have used things like sheets or things to spread the force of the rope out over much more distance but I've never had to do that. Our old horse Mack used to get down and not able to get up but he always eventually managed with some encouragement (lots and lots of encouragement) I knew a day was coming he wouldn't be able to. In a situation like the one you described I would have put the horse down probably rather than stress them out trying to pull them out. Most of the time animal control would know how to do something like this.
The animal control guy basically helped, but I didn't feel a belly band was a great idea because of the ribs.
Then we tried the feed thing, where put it out in front of her, she tried to get up but no strength in the back to get fully up
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 10:33 AM
Wow. WB, easy! Seems like an honest question!! Lets not bring an old grudge into it!
You call this a grudge like it's my problem, and I don't think that's fair. This gal has used made up drama to drag a lot of good hearted people through the 'mud' before, and I want to try to make sure she's not doing it to all of you again. Be skeptical is all I'm saying.
Kara, I'm looking at pictures... I'm not sure what they prove.
The answer to the question is, to pull out a horse who can't get up, you need a large tractor, large straps and ropes, attached wherever you can put them, and a veterinarian on hand to treat exhaustion and whatever other causes made the horse go down in the first place.
We used what we had, we had a tractor and straps, the vet couldn't come out because he was dealing with a foaling
jeez I'm asking a freaking question, pictures proved that it happened.
palomino
02-17-2010, 10:38 AM
What led up to this? Why would your cousin just let the horse sit out in those conditions? If the mud was that deep, it was bound to happen. If your question is what would you do in that situation, its easy- move the damn horse to less muddy ground. If you have to board somewhere until the mud dries so be it.
Horribly irresponsible to leave a horse in those conditions.
What led up to this? Why would your cousin just let the horse sit out in those conditions? If the mud was that deep, it was bound to happen. If your question is what would you do in that situation, its easy- move the damn horse to less muddy ground. If you have to board somewhere until the mud dries so be it.
Horribly irresponsible to leave a horse in those conditions.
When did she leave her in there. She fed that morning outside in the grass, then around noon she looked outside and they were in the lot, which was locked and she doesn't know how it got unlocked. got the other horses out, and then she called me and other people. wtf read the damn thread
palomino
02-17-2010, 10:42 AM
Look, Kara, I didnt attack you I asked questions, just like you said you were doing. Dont WTF me.
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 10:45 AM
When did she leave her in there. She fed that morning outside in the grass, then around noon she looked outside and they were in the lot, which was locked and she doesn't know how it got unlocked. got the other horses out, and then she called me and other people. wtf read the damn thread
Kara, mud like that is made from horses living in it. I don't believe for a minute that horse was out on grass with good food available and better footing and broke into that area so it could lay down in the mud and die.
The horse in the picture was being kept in deplorable conditions, and needed someone's intervention a lot sooner than it came. That's the answer.
Look, Kara, I didnt attack you I asked questions, just like you said you were doing. Dont WTF me.
you attacked me by saying it was abuse, which if you read the thread you would understand it wasn't.
Kara, mud like that is made from horses living in it. I don't believe for a minute that horse was out on grass with good food available and better footing and broke into that area so it could lay down in the mud and die.
The horse in the picture was being kept in deplorable conditions, and needed someone's intervention a lot sooner than it came. That's the answer.
the horses got into the lot, they got in and maybe have been in there for 2 hours. sorry we don't have cameras on our horses 24/7
You're not someone that just got into horses, deplorable, guess when texas has 12 inches of snow and we aren't prepared for it..
palomino
02-17-2010, 10:50 AM
So I dunno, rope off the mucky, deep stuff until it dries out? Jeez.
As far as getting a horse out, use a tractor or backhoe like WB said. I guess I dont get what youre asking.
btw this wasn't my horse, I have no control over what happens at their house. but I can say once we knew we tried everything until the tractor got there.
palomino
02-17-2010, 10:51 AM
I never said the word abuse, Kara. Quit being such a drama queen. Irresponsibility isnt neccessarily abuse, but it is repugnant nonetheless.
So I dunno, rope off the mucky, deep stuff until it dries out? Jeez.
As far as getting a horse out, use a tractor or backhoe like WB said. I guess I dont get what youre asking.
how else to you pull a horse out safety. Thats what I'm asking. Where to put the ropes safely, without helping the horse. because I'm sure a belly band hurt her worst then anything
Horribly irresponsible to leave a horse in those conditions.
that right there was you saying it was abuse...
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 10:54 AM
You're right, I'm not someone who just got into horses. I live in Washington, and I know what happens when there is rain and snow and a horse (or too many horses) is kept in a small space with poor drainage too long. A lot longer than 2 hours to make that kind of mud.
You ask how to prevent or overcome this situation, and the answer's easy really. She needed better horse husbandry, from the state of the shelter, to the state of her paddocks and fencing, if we assume this poor thing actually broke into that space that day.
And once she was there, she needed quick action with a big machine, straps, and a veterinarian, not just excuses. That's what might have saved her, and if they couldn't be brought in soon enough, that's why she died, period.
palomino
02-17-2010, 10:57 AM
I said irresponsible, not abusive, but tomato, tomahto......
You ask how to prevent or overcome this situation, and the answer's easy really. She needed better horse husbandry, from the state of the shelter, to the state of her paddocks and fencing, if we assume this poor thing actually broke into that space that day.
its called cows, her dad had the cows in there overnight a few nights ago to take them to sale. So again ask before assume. the space she's in was a good area, they pushed the gate open after the feeding, again youre assuming
And once she was there, she needed quick action with a big machine, straps, and a veterinarian, not just excuses. That's what might have saved her, and if they couldn't be brought in soon enough, that's why she died, period.
we did all above. you somehow have a venda against me and want me off this forum, or you would asked about everything about before.
palomino
02-17-2010, 11:00 AM
Its vendetta, not venda. LOL
Its vendetta, not venda. LOL
OMG Thanks so much for being a spell checker! Want a cookie?
palomino
02-17-2010, 11:04 AM
Oh, suck it, Kara. Im out.
Oh, suck it, Kara. Im out.
:innocent:
Wb go ahead and ban me, since I'm such a evil person. I really don't care, I talk to the people I do like from here.
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 11:08 AM
we did all above. you somehow have a venda against me and want me off this forum, or you would asked about everything about before.
I don't have a vendetta. I'm skeptical. Trust broken is not easily regained, and that is not my fault or my burden.
You didn't do all the above. You said you were wondering about what to do before the tractor came, - well... you probably couldn't do much if she'd stopped trying to get up. You needed the tractor.
You said the vet couldn't come. - That's too bad, but doesn't make a vet less necessary if the horse was going to be saved.
You said you worry about strapping around the girth... - I think it's probably the strongest part of the horse. If you could get a strap around the butt too, all the better. Better than old, weak legs. Really, there aren't a lot of options and I'd have respected just about anyone who got a machine in there and had an idea. Even getting a belly strap around the horse would have been a challenge that I don't relish. It would not have been easy.
The best answer is horse care that doesn't leave them in the mud like that.
The best answer is horse care that doesn't leave them in the mud like that.
Since I'm heartless I was there in 30 minutes once my cousin found her horse in there. 3 hours after feeding them OUTSIDE ON THE GRASS!
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 11:11 AM
You ask for advice and then get defensive about the answers. The answers are what I think is true, good advice. It's not about you, or the cousin.
You ask for advice and then get defensive about the answers. The answers are what I think is true, good advice. It's not about you, or the cousin.
You made it about me.
advice- you assumed what all happened, then gave advice that doesn't help when you won't even listen
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 11:17 AM
advice- you assumed what all happened, then gave advice that doesn't help when you won't even listen
It's too late to "help".
Which advice was false?
Kara.... you aren't listening.
You didn't do all the above. You said you were wondering about what to do before the tractor came, - well... you probably couldn't do much if she'd stopped trying to get up. You needed the tractor.
.
No, this happened two days ago... I said what was a better way to get them out then what we did, how to fix it.
miatapony
02-17-2010, 11:18 AM
well how about showing us pics where the horses were on nice green graas to be feed ? just asking.
It's too late to "help".
Which advice was false?
Kara.... you aren't listening.
When you said I needed I needed a tractor and blah blah blah, we got that 2 hours (as soon as we could) when she found her/
advice, the advice about waiting for the tractor, your first post was about calling someone when it happened to days ago. We found her at 12 she died right around 5ish.
well how about showing us pics where the horses were on nice green graas to be feed ? just asking.
look at the picture with the tractor in it.
2 page, second picture
TIME LINE
12-cousin found at 12ish
1-got there at 1ish at my lunch break
3-the tractor couldn't get there until 3, during that time we used our hand and shovel to dig the horse out
4-5 the animal control and tractor got there. horse died about 15 minutes after we got her out
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 11:31 AM
When you said I needed I needed a tractor and blah blah blah, we got that 2 hours (as soon as we could) when she found her/
advice, the advice about waiting for the tractor, your first post was about calling someone when it happened to days ago. We found her at 12 she died right around 5ish.
Kara, I'm not missing the facts. I've got the facts, even through your defensive convoluted delivery. The horse died waiting for a tractor and a vet that didn't come soon enough, no matter who tried and when. What other advice can we possibly give?
Kara, I'm not missing the facts. I've got the facts, even through your defensive convoluted delivery. The horse died waiting for a tractor and a vet that didn't come soon enough, no matter who tried and when. What other advice can we possibly give?
the horse died after the tractor, less then a hour after it got there. The horse was trying before, but after the tractor the horse wouldn't move( i'm thinking it was where the straps where), since the vet did say to do the back legs or the head. this is so nutty, I was asking where to put the strap (and you answered it) thats all I was asking, or where else is a good spot. that was it
natisha
02-17-2010, 11:36 AM
If as horse is stuck in mud like that you put a blanket over it, offer it warm water,get down on your hands & knees & scoop away all the mud you can from around the horse including the legs, remove all the mud from in front of the horse leading to a drier area, dig underneath & put a wide web strap around the girth, another around the hindquarters, another under the chest attached to the girth strap. Have strong people on both sides supporting the shoulders & head, two more at the hindquarters. If you have a tractor with a bucket lift straight up with even tension on all straps while the people help lift & support.
I have never seen a dead horse dragged by one flank strap much less a live one. I shudder at the thought.
Poor horse.
If as horse is stuck in mud like that you put a blanket over it, offer it warm water,get down on your hands & knees & scoop away all the mud you can from around the horse ibcluding the legs, remove all the mud from in front of the horse leading to a drier area, dig underneath & put a wide web strap around the girth, another around the hindquarters, another under the chest attached to thee girth strap. Have strong people on both sides supporting the shoulders & head, two more at the hindquarters. If you have a tractor with a bucket lift straight up with even tension on all straps while the people help lift & support.
I have never seen a dead horse dragged by one flank strap much less a live one. I shudder at the thought.
Poor horse.
Thank you!
It was very sad to see. we got the mud away which took a full two hours because the mud was basically thick water. The AC did what he thought was best, he was a good guy but I thought we could do something different, the one strap made me think about a broken rib, because she was having a hard time breathing after we pulled her out. we should have warmed up the legs for sure would have helped a lot. and didnt think about a blanket, we were just trying things to get her up.
Thanks a lot.
natisha
02-17-2010, 11:43 AM
Thank you!
It was very sad to see. we got the mud away which took a full two hours because the mud was basically thick water. The AC did what he thought was best, he was a good guy but I thought we could do something. we should have warmed up the legs for sure would have helped a lot. and didnt think about a blanket, we were just trying things to get her up.
Thanks a lot.Dumping bags of shavings in water like that will help absorb it , then remove the shavings
Dumping bags of shavings in water like that will help absorb it , then remove the shavings
we tried hay, that helped alittle. but when the tractor was draggin her through that thick mud I think it made it ten times worst, esp with the one strap, the animal control guy said that strap was good enough
WashingtonBay
02-17-2010, 12:13 PM
The strap used may not have been ideal, and it may have slipped back as she was drug out of there, but for a short distance in an emergency, I won't fault the guy with an idea and a plan for doing something. Something had to be done. No plan was easy at that point. It's possible a horse of that age and condition could not have been saved even with the best response.
And FWIW Kara, I'm not going to ban you, I'm not even trying to get you to leave, but I did feel the need to bring up history for a bit of perspective and caution on everyone's part. In my mind, I have a duty to be on the lookout for potential drama trolls, even if I cause a bit of drama and upset in the asking.
Reinmaker
02-17-2010, 07:09 PM
repugnant
That is the word.
The ignorance displayed here is both shocking and appalling. Very horrific way for a horse to go out as a result.
Horseaholic
02-17-2010, 07:48 PM
Kara..I would have appreciated a heads up that the second set of images are disturbing. I'm not exactly sure why you'd even want pictures like that???? Let alone want to share them?
I hope that that poor mare is running free in huge green pastures. Bless her.
The horse doesn't look stuck in the mud to me. You can see her feet in one shot. She looks old, not fed very well, and she probably couldn't get up because of that.
Great idea to haul her out of there with a strap around her flank though. Even better idea to share the photo of it with all of us. Looks like she's already dead, which given the conditions she was kept, is a blessing.
What was the point of posting this again?
natisha
02-18-2010, 12:30 PM
What was the point of posting this again?I'm hoping it's for future reference so if she ever comes across that again 'someone' will have some idea what to do.
RIP sweet mare. You're loved by people who never knew you.
KCandAllegro'sMom
02-18-2010, 12:38 PM
I did feel the need to bring up history for a bit of perspective and caution on everyone's part. In my mind, I have a duty to be on the lookout for potential drama trolls, even if I cause a bit of drama and upset in the asking.
WB I think you do a good job of running the board and were right to question the situation (as it seems hokey to me and I don't even know about Kara's "history".
You're doing a good job and I appreciate your effort to keep this board as drama free as possible.
FlapJack
02-18-2010, 12:39 PM
Kara..I would have appreciated a heads up that the second set of images are disturbing. I'm not exactly sure why you'd even want pictures like that???? Let alone want to share them?
I hope that that poor mare is running free in huge green pastures. Bless her.
Yes, me too, I didn't click on the links for a reason.
So upsetting.
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