Need a new bit for Beauty

[Dakota Sunrise]

Well the snow is finally melting and we're having a heat wave (65* yesterday!:eek:) which means sping is coming and I can start riding again! Well, as soon as the mud dries up that is. I can ride on the dirt roads but that doesn't help me and Beauty much.

I rode her in the arena a little bit yesterday, couldn't do much because it was so muddy but I just wanted to get her out and moving since she's had so much time off because of her hoof issues.

I expected her to be a little bratty because she hasn't been ridden in so long and she was. But her issues were the same as last year and I think a new bit might in order.

Right now I'm riding her in a full cheek snaffle. She does ok in it, but she's not very responsive and runs right through it if she doesn't feel like slowing down. She kind of steers like a tank (not that I've ever driven a tank but I imagine they don't have a lot of supple bending going on) and just doesn't follow rein dirrections well. We worked on that a lot last year and she's gotten better, but she seems to be steadily slipping back to her old ways. And not just yesterday, she was acting like that in the fall too. (Oh, and just fyi- her teeth are fine. The vet just checked them in February and said she was good to go.)

I don't want anything too harsh, but I need a bit with a decent amount of whoa that will make her more responsive. I'm thinking maybe a full cheek snaffle with a slow twist, but I don't have any experience with them so I don't know. http://www.equishopper.com/p-5370-korsteel-slow-twist-full-cheek-snaffle.aspx

I rode her in a wonder bit when I first got her but she wasn't very responsive to it. I might try it again just for kicks because that was so long ago and she knows more now. http://www.horse.com/item/Original-Wonder-Bit/SLT731327/

I also have a bit similar to this that she did fairly well in, but I could never seem to get the rope nose adjusted right. I thought it sat too low on her nose and it seemed kind of harsh. http://www.shopwiki.com/_251124+Twisted+Wire+Snaffle+Gag+with+Rope+Nose?o= 345738865&s=98075&

I don't expect to find a bit that will have a miracle cure to all her turning and whoaing issues, but I do think the full cheek is a little too mild for her. She pretty much ignores it.


So, any thoughts?:)

[HeavensEast]

Heaven used to run through every bit I tried on him (never tried any gags though), then natisha suggested a Waterford D-ring snaffle. It worked wonders. You could always try it out on her.

http://www.stcroixsaddlery.com/Korsteel_Waterford_D_Ring_Bit_p/mb_wb_13051.htm

[vicklynn]

Dakota, you know I think your a great gal.:)
The first thing I though of when I read this was, she needs to be more responsive to the one rein stop, her flexing, and backing.
When I need to get a horse off the bit, I do what Chris Cox taught me.
Im sure you've seen that enough, may or may not agree with it, but it works for me.
Get her off the bit, any bit, and teach her to back. You get good back, you get good stop, so I hear.
I get good stop, but still working on good backing.
Also work on the one rein stop per gait, lots of walking and stopping, then work up.
Also Im big on flexing, that has helped so much for me and getting my horse to feel where I want them to go.
Myst knew none of that when I got her and she was an on the bit horse. She rides in a Sweet Iron D ring, and as long as she knows that I will get in the bit, she wont.
Now to teach her how to back better. On the ground shes sweet, in the saddle, not so good at it.

Ive always felt, its not the bit the controls the horse. Why I stick with light bits. If I cant make them do what I want in a soft bit, Im not doing it right. JMHO

Oh, if its a bit your looking for, I cant help ya. Im a D ring nut. I like the full cheek snaffle and O ring too. I just dont use them.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Dakota, you know I think your a great gal.:)
The first thing I though of when I read this was, she needs to be more responsive to the one rein stop, her flexing, and backing.
When I need to get a horse off the bit, I do what Chris Cox taught me.
Im sure you've seen that enough, may or may not agree with it, but it works for me.
Get her off the bit, any bit, and teach her to back. You get good back, you get good stop, so I hear.
I get good stop, but still working on good backing.
Also work on the one rein stop per gait, lots of walking and stopping, then work up.
Also Im big on flexing, that has helped so much for me and getting my horse to feel where I want them to go.
Myst knew none of that when I got her and she was an on the bit horse. She rides in a Sweet Iron D ring, and as long as she knows that I will get in the bit, she wont.
Now to teach her how to back better. On the ground shes sweet, in the saddle, not so good at it.

Ive always felt, its not the bit the controls the horse. Why I stick with light bits. If I cant make them do what I want in a soft bit, Im not doing it right. JMHO

Oh, if its a bit your looking for, I cant help ya. Im a D ring nut. I like the full cheek snaffle and O ring too. I just dont use them.

Very good suggestions and I agree with them. Unfortunately, I've already been down that road. Beauty and I have done whoaing excersises until we were both sick of them, and it's something we review often. It does work though, she whoas very well in the arena now. Same with backing. She's not bad at it. Still learning but not bad at all.

It's not the whoaing itself she has a problem with. We can be walking, trotting, or loping (if you can call what she does a lope:rolleyes: lol) in the arena and all I have to do is sit back and say "Whoa!" and she stops instantly. But she won't slow down. Stop, yes. Slow down and collect, no. It's very frustrating.

[vicklynn]

Got cha!
So is it your half halts and slowing to the next gait, say from a lope, to a slower collected lope, or from the lope to the trot, or walk, is what your having issues with?

[gaited07]

Dakota, you know I think your a great gal.:)
The first thing I though of when I read this was, she needs to be more responsive to the one rein stop, her flexing, and backing.
When I need to get a horse off the bit, I do what Chris Cox taught me.
Im sure you've seen that enough, may or may not agree with it, but it works for me.
Get her off the bit, any bit, and teach her to back. You get good back, you get good stop, so I hear.
I get good stop, but still working on good backing.
Also work on the one rein stop per gait, lots of walking and stopping, then work up.
Also Im big on flexing, that has helped so much for me and getting my horse to feel where I want them to go.
Myst knew none of that when I got her and she was an on the bit horse. She rides in a Sweet Iron D ring, and as long as she knows that I will get in the bit, she wont.
Now to teach her how to back better. On the ground shes sweet, in the saddle, not so good at it.

Ive always felt, its not the bit the controls the horse. Why I stick with light bits. If I cant make them do what I want in a soft bit, Im not doing it right. JMHO

Oh, if its a bit your looking for, I cant help ya. Im a D ring nut. I like the full cheek snaffle and O ring too. I just dont use them.

I agree with VL. She sounds like she is very stiff and bracing herself against you. Going back to the basics of ground work, flexing, backing, bends and etc. will help immensely. JMO;)

Heaven used to run through every bit I tried on him (never tried any gags though), then natisha suggested a Waterford D-ring snaffle. It worked wonders. You could always try it out on her.

http://www.stcroixsaddlery.com/Korsteel_Waterford_D_Ring_Bit_p/mb_wb_13051.htm

I do like this bit and the price isn't that bad at all. But I would do the training first DS.

[Peggy Sue]

it's the same principle Dakota... if she isn't transitioning well then she isnt' breaking at the poll properly .. do lots of lateral flewing when she gives you give

[3equines]

A twisted wire snaffle will help you work on flexion, etc. but if stopping is a real issus, as it can be with certain headstrong horses, then there is nothing wrong with using a mild curb bit with a curb chain.
My Haflingers all got to the point where they knew how to flex and give to the snaffle bit, but when it came to the 'w' word or even asking to slow down I was having to put too much rein pressure on with the snaffle. So I bought my first Kimberwicke uxeter bit for Sweet P, and it was fabulous. I could feel her collect her behind under and put her head down and STOP just like she KNEW how to do.
I went through the same with Peach - snaffle until I was confident that Peach had the basics down, then Kimberwicke, and now they both ride well in a Tom Thumb style curb - which I know is a controversial topic, but it works for my horses and I use a light hand with it.

So, I would go with your instinct - try the twisted wire snaffle. Work on the little things. Then, if there are still problems, move up to a short-shanked curb bit with a chain - yes, metal chain, because you want a horse to get the message clearly the first time; you can put the chain on so it is loose enough to slip 3 fingers under.

Another thought is that a flat-nosed mechanical hackamore is a nice tool to get a horse to break at the poll and STOP when you ask..... just another thing I have found useful with some horses and not others (NOT Haflingers! But good on my Arabian, Taz and the little mare Roxy).

[Dakota Sunrise]

Got cha!
So is it your half halts and slowing to the next gait, say from a lope, to a slower collected lope, or from the lope to the trot, or walk, is what your having issues with?

Well I have no idea how to do a half halt, but yes- slowing to the next gait is the issue. Like from lope to trot, and even just slowing down at the lope to collect. Same with the trot. She knows what "easy trot" means but if she's not in the mood she just won't slow down until I actually ask her to stop completely. She'll whoa, she just won't slow.

[JackieB]

I've got my favorite quote for the day. "...Not that I've ever driven a tank..." :)

I understand where you are coming from. And whatever bit you decide to use, I'll support. 3equines just put in a word of support for a shanked bit and I know that WB will often suggest "a little more bit" if it seems like the rider is otherwise able to control the horse.

But generally speaking, I'm 100% in agreement with VL, Gaited, Peggy Sue, and others who will come on and say the same thing. It may seem like you've tried all of these things until both of you are blue in the face, but either you haven't done it quite right, or you haven't done the right things long enough. So, please don't give up on that aspect of the training.

OK, I will admit that Buster was almost exactly like Beauty at that age. And he had a previous owner who many say pretty much ruined him. He had two speeds -Full Out and Stop. Walk, trot, and canter were merely the three strides a horse took on the way to gallop. And we worked on Clinton Anderson's techniques careully, like very good students, watching the videos over and over and really trying to understand (well I watched the videos, he doesn't fit in the basement room where I workout and watch training videos) for two or three years. His speed problem was about as bad as they get, probably not much different than an OTTB. And he will always have a tendency to creep up in speed if I don't work with him on a regular basis. But all we use is a simple snaffle and he's soft and collected while maintaining the speed I ask him to go.

So, do whatever you think is best. As I mentioned, I'll gladly support you. But I also think that this might be a good challenge for you. Commit yourself to taking your horse training skills to the next level. Give yourself a year or two and be patient. Use your shanked bit in the meantime if that's what it takes, but work with Beauty in the arena several days a week (for short periods of time), using proven techniques that you know how to teach.

All best wishes as always.

[TLC97]

Dakota- The bit does not sound like the issue here (like what everyone else has said). You can get a new bit and it will help for a little while and then you will be right back in this position.

Go back to the basics. I know it sounds simple, but it works. Here is an example from my life- just did this Sunday. Jake is 14 and broke to death, but I have not been on him since November, and that was just a trail ride. He likes to think he is 4 sometimes. So when I jumped on him this past weekend for our first spring ride we started out with a refresher. Was he a little heavy on the bit (he is super light mouthed, I am blessed there) heck Yes. Could I have but something on him with a little more umph, YUP. BUT I just went back to the basics with him for a few times. We did some long trotting and circles to get the fresh off him and then he was my rock steady horse I know and adore.

You can do this, you have confidence, just don't get frustrated.

[cloedoll]

I had Keidas in a slow twist full cheek...Tay let me have it, so hey, I'll pass it on if it works for Beauty! I just have to find it haha. Anyways, I do agree with some people, that it is a training issue...I know it is super muddy, which is a perfect time to work on the "boring" groundwork things. Get her responding to the bit on the ground with flexing and simple exercises. Or hop on her bareback (if you want lol), stay at the walk to start and do the suggestions given. However, I kind of have this idea in my head that maybe if you do try a harsher bit like the slow twist, she will FEEL that, respond and then you can 'downgrade' to a softer bit and she will respond better. That's actually what I did with Keidas haha, I had to play musical bits with him for a while - I used the slow twist full cheek, a kimberwick w/ a low port, then a d-ring snaffle w/ french link mouthpiece and THEN I was riding him bitless! :D It worked for us lmao.

Of course I have to ask, has she had her teeth floated recently? Cloe is always a bit of a b**** (which, hey, I don't blame the girl) and fussy w/ the bit when hers need done.

Anddd lastly, someone mentioned a waterford, if Beauty is leaning on the bit and/or pulling you around, that very well could help correct that bad habit.

Whew, sorry for all the typing. You WILL get her figured out! It's only March so hopefully you get all the little kinks worked out so you guys can have a fun summer. :D

ETA: I know a common saying for us horsey people is something along the lines of a bit is only as harsh as the riders hand...I think it would be better for you to use a harsher bit and NOT be yanking Beauty around hoping she responds, than having a soft bit and you guys fighting the entire time. xD

[3equines]

ETA: I know a common saying for us horsey people is something along the lines of a bit is only as harsh as the riders hand...I think it would be better for you to use a harsher bit and NOT be yanking Beauty around hoping she responds, than having a soft bit and you guys fighting the entire time. xD


Exactly. You can tiptoe around your horse and do groundwork all day long, but there is a point where enough is enough. Use a bit that speaks very clearly, get in, get out, and get on with it. It's the difference between telling a dog to "sit, sit, sit, now please sit, sit boy, sit" and telling a dog to SIT.

[Tiz]

I think I remember a video of you and Beauty loping. If I recall, she hollows her back, and sticks her nose in the air some. Getting her good at vertical flexion is a must for collecting, and hopefully slowing. Changing to a harsher bit will probably get her to stop, but it will make those two problems bigger.

Could you repost that vid?

[Dakota Sunrise]

Thanks, everyone, for all the suggestions/advice. I appriciate it. I definitely (Zoel, did I spell it correctly this time?!:p I usually don't:o) need all the help I can get!:p I'll reply to each of your posts a little later.:)

I think I remember a video of you and Beauty loping. If I recall, she hollows her back, and sticks her nose in the air some. Getting her good at vertical flexion is a must for collecting, and hopefully slowing. Changing to a harsher bit will probably get her to stop, but it will make those two problems bigger.

Could you repost that vid?

This one? http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site/view_shared?p=a5c02340437dbde2e69fd9&autoplay&skin_id=0

Or maybe one of these, I think there's loping Beauty clips in all of them. Althought I should probably let it be known that these clips are actually of her loping well. Not correctly a normal horse, but for her, it's much better than usual.:innocent:

YouTube- Dakota & Beauty- You'll be in my heart

http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site/view_shared?p=96bf9f3af7baa75a7f18a7


http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site/view_shared?p=966903d2e28f12688ce5f0

[zoel_222]

I definitely (Zoel, did I spell it correctly this time?!:p I usually don't:o)

:clap: Way to go!! :clap:

:D

I agree with the others. You need to work on vertical flexing, doing some half-halts and really getting that mouth soft and light. Until you have a soft, light and supple mouth 100% of the time, I wouldn't be doing any barrels or galloping or loping anything where she'll be able to get out of your control. Work on getting her soft 100% at the slow gaits before you progress to anything faster. Don't give her the opportunity to fail. You want to always set her up to succeed.

Cloe's slow twist might be good for you. I think right now a slightly harsher bit would do you some good, just during the training process so you can wake up her mouth a bit, kind of like how 3equines said. Don't just switch bits without doing the training that needs to be done, though or you will just ruin her mouth and make all the problems she has worse.

Here's an article I wrote on half-halts, you might find it useful.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2669377/using_halfhalts_to_soften_your_horses.html?cat=53

[JackieB]

Exactly. You can tiptoe around your horse and do groundwork all day long, but there is a point where enough is enough. Use a bit that speaks very clearly, get in, get out, and get on with it. It's the difference between telling a dog to "sit, sit, sit, now please sit, sit boy, sit" and telling a dog to SIT.

This is where the tremendous importance of getting really good lateral flexion came in with Buster. When Clinton says "lateral leads to vertical", he was definitely speaking to me and Buster.

When I was using a stronger bit (Buster did have a long, shanked bit for years), I could get him to slow by saying "SIT" (so to speak) and he would. But he wasn't ever going to get soft, or become collected. I was just using leverage to make the curb strap uncomfortable enough for him to be willing to give to, say 15 lbs of pressure when his resistance limit was 14 lbs.

By going all the way back to the beginning and using groundwork and riding exercises, we fairly quickly got to where I could get Buster to give laterally (bring his nose around and touch the girth) with just 5 lbs of pressure or so. Then we started building our foundation and eventually getting the softness and compliance (with speed) vertically.

So, I'm not disagreeing with what you and Cloe are saying at all. I had to use the shanked bit with Buster for awhile. He was nearly unrideable in a snaffle. I had to be able to say "SIT" for us to ride in the arena and go on trail rides. But I knew that I wanted to move away from that, into a snaffle, and on with our progress. I didn't rush it. We took three or four months to really get started, but things sure got wonderful from there on out!

[JackieB]

Here's an article I wrote on half-halts, you might find it useful.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2669377/using_halfhalts_to_soften_your_horses.html?cat=53

Zoe!!!!!! There are 57 articles that you wrote when I clicked on your name. You totally rock. You've been holding back on us with sharing your considerable talent. :) I liked the half-halt one a lot. I'll go back and read a few more.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Until you have a soft, light and supple mouth 100% of the time, I wouldn't be doing any barrels or galloping or loping anything where she'll be able to get out of your control. Work on getting her soft 100% at the slow gaits before you progress to anything faster. Don't give her the opportunity to fail. You want to always set her up to succeed.

Cloe's slow twist might be good for you. I think right now a slightly harsher bit would do you some good, just during the training process so you can wake up her mouth a bit, kind of like how 3equines said. Don't just switch bits without doing the training that needs to be done, though or you will just ruin her mouth and make all the problems she has worse.

Here's an article I wrote on half-halts, you might find it useful.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2669377/using_halfhalts_to_soften_your_horses.html?cat=53

Don't worry, I gave up on my barrel racing dream a long time ago. I don't think Beauty and I will ever see the inside of a show ring. Which is a little disapointing, but that's okay. Now I just want to get her trained enough to be a fun, safe trail horse and Walk, Trot, Lope, Whoa proficient in the arena. I like schooling her and it's fun to ride in the arena, although seeing a little progress now and then would be nice.
So anyway, the point to all that is that I'm definitely (hehe, spelled it correctly twice in one night!:banana:) willing to go slow (and have been already mostly). I don't practice barrels with her or anything like that, and the only time we gallop is on the trails and we haven't done that in a long time. And we won't be loping anymore until I get her trotting better again.

I would like to try Caitlin's slow twist bit on Beauty. I know she needs more training and that's most of her problem, but I still think she needs a bit that's a little bit stronger, sort of to get her attention and say "hey, listen to ME!" She just ignores the regular snaffle she's in now.

Thanks for the article on half halts:). I'll definitely (:D) read it, especially considering I don't even know how to ask for a half halt...:innocent:

[zoel_222]

Zoe!!!!!! There are 57 articles that you wrote when I clicked on your name. You totally rock. You've been holding back on us with sharing your considerable talent. :) I liked the half-halt one a lot. I'll go back and read a few more.

Hehe thanks. :o The half-halt one is my favorite. My to shoe or not to shoe article got complimented by associatedcontent's top horse article contributor. It was a proud moment. :D

Lizzy, don't give up on the barrel racing just yet! She just needs more time and a lot more training. She'll get there. You've done a lot of good with her so far, don't give up!

[Reinmaker]

I agree with both "sides" of this equation. I would step up to a bit with more "bite" and really work on lateral flexion and then vertical flexion. Nothing wrong with softening her up with a twist or mild curb and getting her attention, but the root of the problem should also be worked on with a proper foundation. She needs to know what you are asking for when you pull.

Rate and whoa become much easier when a horse is broke in the face and gives to pressure readily.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Lizzy, don't give up on the barrel racing just yet! She just needs more time and a lot more training. She'll get there. You've done a lot of good with her so far, don't give up!


I'm sure with proper training she could be a barrel racer again. She definitely has the speed for it and is very athletic when she wants to be. But I don't think I have the skills to teach her, and am probably not a good enough rider to stay on a seasoned barrel horse either.
My original plan was to find an older, little bit slower, seasoned barrel horse that I could learn on. But then I met Beauty and she needed me and things changed. I don't regret my decision to buy her, I love my crazy girl. But it did make me realize that I won't be doing the kind of riding I always wanted to, it's just not happening. But that's ok. Beauty means more to me than gaming ever could.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Thanks again for all the suggestions and advice, guys!:) I'll respond to everyone's posts tomorrow after work. My teeth hurt too much and I'm too tired to do it now.:doh: Need some sleep!:sleep:

[JackieB]

Hehe thanks. :o The half-halt one is my favorite. My to shoe or not to shoe article got complimented by associatedcontent's top horse article contributor. It was a proud moment. :D


They're really, really well written, Zoe. I think you might have your career figured out, or at least a way to pay the bills.

[zoel_222]

I'm sure with proper training she could be a barrel racer again. She definitely has the speed for it and is very athletic when she wants to be. But I don't think I have the skills to teach her, and am probably not a good enough rider to stay on a seasoned barrel horse either.
My original plan was to find an older, little bit slower, seasoned barrel horse that I could learn on. But then I met Beauty and she needed me and things changed. I don't regret my decision to buy her, I love my crazy girl. But it did make me realize that I won't be doing the kind of riding I always wanted to, it's just not happening. But that's ok. Beauty means more to me than gaming ever could.

Well with that attitude lol. Seriously though, that makes me kind of sad. I remember for the longest time how badly you wanted to barrel race. I believe you can still get there. It'll just take more experience for both you. I used to be a TERRIBLE rider. I never thought I would be able to stay in the saddle without dying at a canter, let alone gallop/jump/cut a horse bareback. And you're already way better than I was! You can definitely ride a horse, I've seen it!

When Chica came to me 5 years ago she had all of Beauty's problems and then some. She bucked, bit, kicked, bolted, was hard mouthed, had no ground manners and fought like crazy with the farrier. I'm probably forgetting some other stuff she did, too. Now, 5 years later with a LOT of training under her belt, she is the smoothest, most reliable horse I've ever ridden. She trains beginners, is as gentle as a kitten and will do anything I ask bareback and bridleless. I see a lot of Chica in Beauty. I think you'll be able to get there with her. Just don't give up.

They're really, really well written, Zoe. I think you might have your career figured out, or at least a way to pay the bills.

Thankya! All those years of A/P English payed off I guess. :D That pretty much is what's paying the bills right now. It's not a lot of money at all, but it's better than no money. I can pretty much pay for the farrier and my horse's grain each month with my articles, so that's good. I'd like to see if I can get published by a magazine eventually. I'm sure that'd pay better than the $3 an article I'm getting now. :doh:

[JackieB]

Thankya! All those years of A/P English payed off I guess. :D That pretty much is what's paying the bills right now. It's not a lot of money at all, but it's better than no money. I can pretty much pay for the farrier and my horse's grain each month with my articles, so that's good. I'd like to see if I can get published by a magazine eventually. I'm sure that'd pay better than the $3 an article I'm getting now. :doh:

Such great experience, though. Just keep writing, writing, writing.

[mandisue]

I haven't looked at everyones posts so not sure what has been suggested but considering how much of a handful she is and her being "gamed" before I'm sure she needs more than a snaffle.

I run and ride Tess in a wonder bit, but it's a twisted wire. Ebay for $20 including shipping. And she goes WONDERFUL in it, and doesn't take hardly any pressure with it.
As for my other horses that weren't being shown pleasure and that weren't young we use a rope nose combo on a lot of ours. Also check into the jr cowhorse bits.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Well with that attitude lol. Seriously though, that makes me kind of sad. I remember for the longest time how badly you wanted to barrel race. I believe you can still get there. It'll just take more experience for both you. I used to be a TERRIBLE rider. I never thought I would be able to stay in the saddle without dying at a canter, let alone gallop/jump/cut a horse bareback. And you're already way better than I was! You can definitely ride a horse, I've seen it!

I did want it badly. And still do. I love going to rodeos and local shows with my neighbor Donna and her grandkids to watch the barrel racing. But it makes me a little sad because I want to be out there doing it too. But Beauty is not ready and neither am I, and it just doesn't seem very realistic to still think we'll be running patterns any time soon, if ever. It would be different if I could have a trainer to help me and Beauty learn together.

When Chica came to me 5 years ago she had all of Beauty's problems and then some. She bucked, bit, kicked, bolted, was hard mouthed, had no ground manners and fought like crazy with the farrier. I'm probably forgetting some other stuff she did, too. Now, 5 years later with a LOT of training under her belt, she is the smoothest, most reliable horse I've ever ridden. She trains beginners, is as gentle as a kitten and will do anything I ask bareback and bridleless. I see a lot of Chica in Beauty. I think you'll be able to get there with her. Just don't give up.

I'm glad Chica is doing so great now.:) You did an awesome job with her. I hope some day Beauty will be a success story like that too.:)

[Dakota Sunrise]

Ok. I just reread everyone's comments and suggestions and appriciate all the advice.:)

I agree that this issue is not just a bit problem. Beauty definitley needs more training, and the second the ground dries up (it's a sea of mud right now:doh:) I intend to do lots of ground and saddle work with her. Take her back to the basics pretty much.

I don't exactly know how to go about doing that, but I have a few excersises in mind that might help. I was rereading some of my old Horse & Rider magazines today and I found one article to be very interesting. It was Stacy Westfall's Trot, Lope, Then Ride Out! article. It was written with much younger horses in mind, but in some ways Beauty is still very green so I see no reason why her training techniques couldn't work for my girl too. In fact, Stacy herself said in the article that it could help older horses who had a problem with being very tense and forward, which Beauty definitely does.
So I'm going to give her ideas a try.:)

My own ideas for Beauty were similar to the Stacy Westfall article. Basically I'm just planning to do a lot of circling, figure eights, downward transitions, changing dirrections, whoaing and backing excersises with the hopes of her relaxing, slowing down a little, and becoming more responsive. I still would like to try a different bit with her, but I know more training is certainly in order as well.

[Dakota Sunrise]

I had Keidas in a slow twist full cheek...Tay let me have it, so hey, I'll pass it on if it works for Beauty! I just have to find it haha. Anyways, I do agree with some people, that it is a training issue...I know it is super muddy, which is a perfect time to work on the "boring" groundwork things. Get her responding to the bit on the ground with flexing and simple exercises. Or hop on her bareback (if you want lol), stay at the walk to start and do the suggestions given. However, I kind of have this idea in my head that maybe if you do try a harsher bit like the slow twist, she will FEEL that, respond and then you can 'downgrade' to a softer bit and she will respond better. That's actually what I did with Keidas haha, I had to play musical bits with him for a while - I used the slow twist full cheek, a kimberwick w/ a low port, then a d-ring snaffle w/ french link mouthpiece and THEN I was riding him bitless! :D It worked for us lmao.

Of course I have to ask, has she had her teeth floated recently? Cloe is always a bit of a b**** (which, hey, I don't blame the girl) and fussy w/ the bit when hers need done.

Anddd lastly, someone mentioned a waterford, if Beauty is leaning on the bit and/or pulling you around, that very well could help correct that bad habit.

Whew, sorry for all the typing. You WILL get her figured out! It's only March so hopefully you get all the little kinks worked out so you guys can have a fun summer. :D

ETA: I know a common saying for us horsey people is something along the lines of a bit is only as harsh as the riders hand...I think it would be better for you to use a harsher bit and NOT be yanking Beauty around hoping she responds, than having a soft bit and you guys fighting the entire time. xD

Thanks, Caitlin.:) I agree with everything you said.

As for her teeth, the vet just checked them when he was out for her abscess, which was not that long ago at all. I don't remember the exact date but I think it was the last week of February. He said they were good to go so that's not her issue.

As for the twisted full cheek snaffle, I would love to have it/borrow it if you're sure you don't mind.:D Just let me know what the shipping will be and I'll send you a check.:)

[Kara]

Not saying anything, because she does need training. But I think you need to try the chain bit I use with Corona. Its as gentle as a snaffle, but can but very harsh(he takes off or doesn't pay attention when I ask to stop). He loves it btw, I don't like it alot but he listens to it.

And if you are going to be doing circles and stopping I would HIGHLY suggestion lefts and rights on barrels. You do a BIG circle but also allows the horses to relax around the barrels, and switchs up enough to where they don't get bored. Corona's biggest problem was seeing the barrels he would get hyper and ready to run, which he reminds me of beauty.

To do lefts and rights you want to have the barrel pattern set up. but to do rights go to the first barrel, third barrel, and then the second. Do big circles. Get her flexing and doing regular circles. The barrels pretend are in the middle of your circle. to do lefts you go to the second, third, and then first.

It helped Corona calm down and not turn into a nut when he sees the barrels.