Saddle Fit

[pandorasmom]

I'm looking to hopefully get me a new used saddle sometime in the spring of next year. Will depend on a few things.

I was curious what type of bars would a typical Anglo Arabian need? I'm torn, because she's got a TB for a Mom and an Arab for a dad, so she's in between both of those.

Any suggestions on what I should or shouldn't look for? Recommendations??

Thanks!
Sharon

[WashingtonBay]

It really varies.

One good thing if you're in a boarding stable environment with a lot of saddles around.... try several on her. Try as many as you can over the next few months and write down the brands and sizes that fit best.

[cloedoll]

Ditto to what WashingtonBay said. It's hard to determine what tree/etc. a horse would need just by their breed.

[pandorasmom]

Well, She's at home, so I'm not really in a boarding situation.
Any other suggestions??

I'm not sure what the bars are now that I'm using. I think it's semi or full QH bars, but can't promise it. It's a barrel racing saddle, 15". My mom's had it for close to 30 yrs.

[WashingtonBay]

Oh - for some reason I thought you boarded.

Well, photographs might help... trying on any saddles you do have might help, noting fit and whether they tend to be too wide or too narrow. Really, there's no way for us to say otherwise.

[Mandzanita]

Are you under the impression that the saddle you have now isn't the best fit? Like WB said take some good pics and post them for us to see. try to get some from the side, far enough away so we can see how level it sits, and also take some from the front so we can see the angle it sits on the shoulder and withers. We can then gauge, somewhat, how your current saddle fits and go from there :)

[luvs2ride1979]

My Anglo fits in Semi-QH or QH bars best. He's got the TB shaped barrel though. You might want to try some saddle on her and see what works best, then try to find that exact brand and tree size.

There is a method of measuring her and then a straight on front photo of a saddle so you can get an idea of the fit. First, you need to take a wither tracing of your horse. Get a wire coat hanger and cut it to a 16" long piece. Find the back edge of her scapula (shoulder blade). Mold the wire to the shape of her withers and sides 2" BEHIND the edge of her scapula (about 2-3 fingers width if you didn't bring out a ruler). Carefully remove the wire and trace it on some paper or the side of a box.

Now follow the direction on this link:
http://www.yourredwagon.com/Degree%20Method.pdf

It shows an English saddle, but it will work for western too. You just need a good straight on front photo so you can measure the angle. I have tried it a few times before and it does work! As long as the two measurements are +/- 2 degrees, the saddle is likely going to fit (wider is better as you can always throw an extra saddle pad under there!).

[pandorasmom]

Are you under the impression that the saddle you have now isn't the best fit? Like WB said take some good pics and post them for us to see. try to get some from the side, far enough away so we can see how level it sits, and also take some from the front so we can see the angle it sits on the shoulder and withers. We can then gauge, somewhat, how your current saddle fits and go from there :)


I think the saddle I'm using now fits okay, except one thing. It appears that when its on her it wants to rub her withers if I don't keep two pads. Right now this is the only saddle I have to use on her. So I'm just using two pads and it's fine. I can't really afford another one right now. Once I save up enough I'm hoping to be able to get a gently used 16" western saddle, but I didn't know what I'd need, if ya see what I mean. My mom has a 16" western one, but it's a very special saddle to her, and I don't use it period. I could use it to take pics of on her though, I'm sure Mom wouldn't mind that. I take the pics without her pads, right? And the saddle just sits on her back, not tightened up,etc.
I'm not sure what bars are on this saddle though.


Thanks to all of you for trying to help me with this! I greatly appreciate it. I know how to use a saddle,the basic parts of a saddle, and can ride in one (for the majority) but how to fit ones a different story. LOL
I'll get some pics of it tomorrow.

[Mandzanita]

If you measure the gullet with tailor's tape or a measuring tape, you can get an idea of what size bars the saddle would fall under. I think 6-6 1/4" is Semi-QH, 6 1/2" Reg QH and 6 1/2"-7" is Full QH. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Different makers have different ideas as to what constitues what so as to confuse us all :)

Yeah get pics without a pad, just sitting on the bare back AND then take pics with your double pads and girthed up just so we can see how the fit is when you've made the adjustments to actually ride. Just getting an idea of how the different saddles that you currently have available to you fit we can help you in terms of possibly suggesting something wider, narrower, shorter ect.

[pandorasmom]

Okay, I took the pics of her with her saddle. She was NOT happy with me getting her out this morning to "work". She never gets "worked" in the morning, what is wrong with her stupid mommy.
This first set is of her with just her bareback and the saddle. She looks naked!!! LOL I will post the others after this (their uploading).

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9641-1.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9643.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9648.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9655.jpg

If ya need more shots hollar. I just picked out the best 4 views, I thought would help. Adding the others and I'll be back.

[pandorasmom]

These were taken after I put her two pads on and cinched up the saddle. I know the second pad (the black one) is unaligned, but no matter how perfect it is before I tack her up, with the shape of her back, it gets uneven. I have OCD so it really annoys me, but what am I to do? LOL

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9659.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9670.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9660.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9662.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9673.jpg

After sitting it on her bareback, I think it's too wide for her. I never had set it on her bareback with no pads.

[pandorasmom]

I decided that while I had her there, I'd ride her a little to get the saddle in the position it's normally in when I ride. It doesn't rub her if I use the black pad, but as soon as I put just her thick pad on her, within a couple rides (near each other) it'll rub a spot on the tip top of her withers.
So I did ride her for about 5-10 minutes, walk, trot and canter. Also, I hope I measured the gullet right, I took some pics of it to see also.

After the ride:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9685.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9687.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9692.jpg

Pic below is closer up then above pic:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9693.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9704.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9701.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9699.jpg

[Mandzanita]

First of all, GREAT pics! They are very helpful :)

Well we can safely say this saddle is entirely TOO wide :) Sounds like you got that impression too! The pads put it in a position that is DEFINATELY improved but I'm still worried about the wither clearance (their should be about 2-3 stacked fingers worth of space between the wither and underside of the pommel) and and how far the concho area comes down on the shoulders.

When a saddle is too wide most of the weight gets concentrated toward the front of the saddle instead of distributing equally from front to back. This causes the the pommel to come down on the withers the the bars to dig into the shoulders. Has she expressed any comfort issues under saddle? You might have talked about it earlier but I miss it.

I'm glad you decided to use two pads with this saddle because it helps the fit trememdously. You may be able to get away with doing it this way for a while but I would definitely start saving and looking for a new one that fits her better. I see you have some withers to work with :) You may look into an Arab tree when you are ready. They tend to be narrower but have bars specially angled for an arab shoulder.

As far as the measurements, I think you need to measure a little farther down from the point of the bars (the start of the fleace, at about the concho) to get a more accurate measurement. It measures 6" from the measurement you took but I'm having a hard time believing it as that's pretty narrow :)


So what does everyone else say??

[pandorasmom]

I'll see what pics I can get after lunch. :)

I'm thinking after seeing how wide it is, she may lean more toward a saddle with Arabian bars. LOL
She has a very narrow back. After carrying all the babies she had before I got her, I think it made her back drop some too. Maybe not, but she holds her weight down more then up.

[Dakota Sunrise]

I agree- too wide. The fit definately did improve when you put the saddle pads on, but if it ever sinks down enough to rub a spot on her whithers that's no good.
I don't know if a built up pad or a wither enhancer pad would solve your problem here or not.... it worked for me with Dakota, and Beauty too when she was still working on getting filled out again.

I bought this for Beauty back when she was still skinny (now my saddle fits her without it, she's gained quite a bit of weight) and used it over her normal saddle pad: http://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Saddle-Pads/Wider-Wither-Saddle-Pad-Enhancer-(Felt)-WIE20.html

And this for Dakota (although I will use the wither enhancer pad when I want to use his red, white, and blue saddle pad on him): http://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Saddle-Pads/Equi-Herc-Built-Up-Cutback-Saddle-Pad-WIL03.html

That saddle is probably full quarter horse bars?

I am no expert at saddle fitting so some one else can probably help you out a lot more than I can.

[cloedoll]

I second what Zanita said. The saddle is definitely too wide. Sometimes you can get away with too wide of a saddle with using a thicker pad, but I think this saddle is just to off from a good fit to correct it with a thicker pad. I am guessing the saddle is a SQHB, but obviously not too sure. Either way, this saddle, even with pads, in my opinion isn't going to work. =/

[pandorasmom]

Will be back later to respond, having gotten pics yet, something else has came up. Will get them later though.

[Mandzanita]

Which other pics are you getting?

[WashingtonBay]

Do you have one of just her back, naked?

[pandorasmom]

Which other pics are you getting?

The ones of the measurements. I took some more pics/measurements with my sister's help. I wasn't sure what exactly what would be best, so here you go in all sorts of measurement sizes. LOL


This is a body shot of where I was measuring:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9729.jpg

This is the measurement:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9730-1.jpg

The rest are like the above. 1st pic is body shot of where I was measuring, the 2nd pic is the measurement.

Body:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9731-1.jpg

Measurement:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9732.jpg

Body:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9733.jpg

Measurement:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9734.jpg

Then just a random one of the length of it:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9741.jpg


Do those help any??

[pandorasmom]

Do you have one of just her back, naked?

I have one of her grazing with her bareback. If I need one of her head lifted up and bareback I don't have a recent one I don't think. I can get one though.

Does this work? :

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9347.jpg

[pandorasmom]

:whistle:
Has she expressed any comfort issues under saddle?


She never acts like she has a problem with it. I've used this saddle since I got her. She is the type horse that could have 2 broke legs and would still be running though, so that doesn't mean it's not hurting her.
She gets what I call "tudish" under saddle, but that's her too. It doesn't appear to be from pain, just that she wants to run wide open sometimes and if you go to pull her up she'll dump you outta the saddle unintentially. LOL If I'm trying to slow her up in a fast gait, she'll start bunny hopping and then I'm hopping too.
We're working on that, but just taking it a little at a time. As so long as she's just walking around she's fine, but as soon as she gets to run just once, she's a bullet most of the rest of the time. She just gets wound up, and hyped up and then once I stop running her it takes 15-20 minutes atleast for her to calm back down and not want to run constantly. She was an endurance horse though, so for her this is a job. Although she seems to love it.
I'm definately saving up for a new saddle. For now I'm going to keep up with the 2 pads I think, and I found 2 small cushion pads I have here that will add some comfort I think. I'll try it atleast and see how it goes. Not sure if I'll be able to ride this evening or not. Mom is running errands and dad is at work. Can't ride, unless someone is here that has a driver's license and could get me to the hospital. :whistle:

[WashingtonBay]

I think that picture works fine for the idea of how she's built.

An arab tree might just work. The Big Horn Arab tree in particular I'm real familiar with. It has a lot of rocker and flare so it works real well with a horse who has a wither and not a real straight back.

The saddle you pictured is too wide, but it's not just wide, the angles are off. Look at the front of it in the picture without the pad. So even with more padding you're not getting nice flat contact with the tree, just pressure points. I wouldn't use it.

[luvs2ride1979]

The fit actually looks good on her back, though you have it about 2" too far forward. You need to find a saddle with the same shape of tree, just more room in the pommel. You want a higher pommel, like a barrel saddle or taller a-fork.

If you go with a saddle any more narrow, it will end up sitting too high on the withers and pinching badly.

[luvs2ride1979]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9648.jpg

This image shows it best. You can see how the skirt follows the line of her shoulder well. You can see where the concho is, at the base of her withers, where it should be. This is saddle is NOT too wide. The pommel is just too low. You want the same kind of fit on her back (though I agree, more flare and rocker would be helpful) but with a taller pommel to allow room for her withers.

[WashingtonBay]

Luvs.... I disagree. Look at the other side.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF9643.jpg

[luvs2ride1979]

Yes, but that could be caused by the horse turning her head or resting a foot, or the saddle shifting. It's still a close fit, and it could be argued that where it comes away from her at the bottom is just the skirts bending out. The bottom of the tree is right there under that leather concho.

With the other side looking as good as it does, I'm more inclined to think it fits at least decently. The concho is still in the right spot and it follows the shape her shoulder/back from the top to the concho. It's definitely not too WIDE. If it was more narrow, the concho would be too high up her withers and it would be pinching. If it really does flare out too much, then it's just the angle of the bars, not the width of the gullet.

[WashingtonBay]

OK well I guess I'll end with at the very least, not being happy with the saddle paired with that pad.

It's a built up sway back pad, which may or may not be a problem, I can't tell, but it's just entirely too big, so that it's difficult at best to get the saddle and pad placed correctly, and as is, the cutback on the wither is not providing the wither relief it's intended to because it's simply too far forward.

[WashingtonBay]

As a side note... Pandora are you currently trying to put weight on this horse? She's a little thin and angular all the way around. She could use a hundred pounds or two.

[pandorasmom]

Hey!

I've been trying to put weight on her since I got her. It's a constant struggle. But she is doing better now then when I got her. She's getting 6 lbs of 14 % food a day, with 1/2 a cup of soaked beet pulp twice a day and is getting all the hay she'll eat. Vet said in August she looked good besides needing some more weight on her hips.
I weighed her with the weigh tape a month or two ago, and came up with about 950-975 I think as her weight best I could tell.

This saddle is suppose to be a barrel saddle. My mom got it when she bought a barrel racing gelding in the early 80's. That's about all I know about it.

The top pad (the colored one) is this:
https://www.statelinetack.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=SLT700167%20BLPP

When I got it I didn't think her back size was that short, so thought it was the right size. It would fit/look better if it wasn't so long, however it's a very good pad.

[WashingtonBay]

It's not a question of whether it's a good pad, it's just too big for the saddle, so you can't place the cutback in the right place in the front without a foot of pad hanging out the back.

A smaller version, a nice thick rounded pad that fits the saddle would make the whole package fit better.

Understood about her weight... she's not deathly thin or anything, but she doesn't have an ounce of fat pad on her back that would help smooth and pad some of those angles.

[pandorasmom]

She looked like this when I got her, and had been underweight for close to a year:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/summershadowfarm/DSCF4510-2.jpg

She holds alot of weight down more then up, but I don't know of anything to do to help that.

[pandorasmom]

My mom has a round skirted pad she might let me use. If she doesn't mind I can take some pics with it, then let you compare those. I'll have to check with her.

[pandorasmom]

It's not a question of whether it's a good pad, it's just too big for the saddle,


Yea I understand.
I was just saying as far as being thick and all it was good, not in regards to the length,etc. That'd work fine for a different saddle and a longer backed horse.

[pandorasmom]

Okay Mom said I can use that pad, so I'm gonna use it tomorrow and see.

Anyone else that has suggestions,ideas,etc. I'm open to listen.

[Remali]

Well, I'd definitely look for a saddle that fit her better, that one appears to be way too wide for her, and the angles are not correct either..... once she puts some weight on that will help a little bit.....but she has some pretty good withers on her....I would try different saddles on her to find the one that works best. Most places will let you try out a saddle, usually. But, I for sure wouldn't use the saddle you've got on her in the picture.....it fits her really bad and could really cause problems, and make her sore. If she acts up at all in any way, even by acting "hyper", it may be that she is getting sore from that saddle.

[pandorasmom]

I'm looking, but can't buy right now. As soon as I can afford It I'm getting another one that fits her better, and so I can own my own saddle. :)

I did use my mom's round saddle pad yesterday, and it worked great with the saddle. I could fit 2 stacked fingers from the pad( on top of her withers ) to the underside of the gullet area. She still wanted to run like the devil, but that's her. An endurance horse. She's been doing alot better though since I've been doing more groundwork with her. Her respect has came along ways.