Rashad is colicing again - Update: Better :~)

[farmers_wife]

Rashad is colicing again. We might loose him this time. I have the vet coming and Jessica is on her way. I cant stop crying. He just wont drink the water.
Send more prayers. I will keep you updated.

[firstlovesong]

Oh my.. I am so sorry. Best of wishes and prayers for Rashad.

[Horseaholic]

Oh no :( prayers and hugs. Hang in there

[WashingtonBay]

Oh dear. Bless all of your hearts.

[CaddoCinnamon]

Sorry FW and SWMS...You all will be in my prayers today.
Please keep us updated...I really don't know what to say but I feel your grief.
My Bandit the little bl/wh kitten died last night.

[JackieB]

Oh no. Prayers for Rashad.

[grandmadeb]

NO, no, no, Rashad. I am so sorry and prayers are on the way. I know it is hard but try to stay calm. You have the vet coming so help is on the way. You are doing everything you can.

[oursarge]

Horrible news, hope things will be OK. Only good thoughts. This is a nightmare.

[Petra]

OH no! So sorry to hear that.
Don't give up hope. Think positive! Good luck to you and Rashad. Hope it will pass.

[Dakota Sunrise]

Oh no.:( Hang in there, Rashad! I'm sorry you all are going through this. Sending healing vibes & good thoughts his way!

[vicklynn]

Oh NO, I am sorry you are going through this yet again.
Prayers up for Rashad, SWMS, and FW.
((HUGS))My heart is breaking for you.

[Gypsy Rose]

I'm sorry! I'll keep you and SWMS and Rashad in my thoughts. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I haven't been on here much lately, but Vicklynn and Caddo have been keeping me up on things.

I'll pop in a few times today just to check on how Rashad is doing.

[lovesfortune]

Sending prayers.

[natisha]

Oh no.:(

[Dandy21]

:( Will be thinking of you guys.

[farmers_wife]

Ok Update.. Vet gave banimine and tube again. It was a mild colic this time because he wanted to eat. We took blood work to see if there is some reason why he is not drinking. Maybe kidney failure or what. We should know tomorrow about that. This horse is going to give me a heartattack.
Jessica and musthavespots is here and they are hungry, so I am making them eggs, hashbrowns and toast.
Thanks for the prayers.

[Kara]

Hoping he makes it!

[gaited07]

Plenty of prayers and good thoughts for Rashad and even crossing my fingers for some good news.

[WashingtonBay]

Good news... Hang in there.... Hopefully quite a bit of water too with the oil? Just keep an eye on him today, I'm sure you will.

Thanks for the offer off eggs and toast! I'd love some!

[mustangluver]

sending jingles

[FatSpottedAppy]

Hang in there Rashad & girls..

[oursarge]

Hope all will be fine with the bloodwork, glad he's doing better right now. I think he's taken yrs off of all of our lives worrying about him, poor baby.

[doc_western]

:( Hang in there, Rashad. Keeping you guys in my thoughts.

[dame_wolf]

You're not the only one he's going to give a heart attack to! I think everyone in the forum just had one!

Hang in there Rashad! It's not time for you yet old man!

[grandmadeb]

Good news for now and everyone on the forum is pulling for you all.

[Gypsy Rose]

That's great news! Hopefully the bloodwork will show what's going on, and that it's not his kidneys.

[CaddoCinnamon]

Good news FW and SWMS...You will be in my thoughts as I go through out my day. Come on Rashad I don't know you personally but you have a lot fans old man. You are well loved by your family and your extended family.

[Peggy Sue]

Hopefully he comes thur this one with flying color and the blood work doesn't show any serious issues!! Keep us updated and get a copy of it for us

sending healing jiggles to him

[Gliderider]

Sending prayers for Rashad and you all. Sure hope his blood work comes back with good new. HUGS

[WashingtonBay]

We took blood work to see if there is some reason why he is not drinking. Maybe kidney failure or what. We should know tomorrow about that.

If there are any results of interest or concern, and you guys have a way to scan that document when it comes back, lets do that and compare. I even have a toll free fax number I'd give if you want, that your vet could fax it to.

To compare to, I actually have a blood work panel run on Bay, another 28 year old horse, last week, and of course, I do have sample blood panels for my pony in kidney failure. They look very different.

[Toodlestoo]

Prayers headed his way he recovers fully. Thinking of you girls too.

[JetLagaside]

Prayers being sent your way.

[Country Girl 43]

Thoughts and prayers being sent your way.

[Equine_Woman]

I'm so sorry. What a nightmare! Keep us posted.

[Buckpoco]

I pray that this can be resolved. Maybe there is a simple answer.

[ownedby7horses]

Prayers up for Rashad & you both. We're pulling for you Rashad, now stop scaring your people :nono:!!! lol

[Vegashorselady]

I hope the vet can figure out what is causing it. Wish you all the best!

[PaintedDreamer_0110]

Uh oh...Prayers up for Rashad and you, your family, and Jessica! I hope he pulls through. (((HUGS)))

[Horseaholic]

any updates?

[~*Domino*~]

Sending prayers!

[Remali]

Sure hope things improve for Rashad..... is he eating and drinking any better now?

[farmers_wife]

SWMS here-

Eating, but not drinking. I have no idea how we can get him to start drinking. :( Since the last colic he has basically stopped drinking. He has salt and electrolytes in his watered down food, but still isn't drinking any better.

[WashingtonBay]

Do you have a turkey baster or large syringe? If you're sitting there anyway and want to try, I did sit and syringe water into the mouth of my pony once when she was not feeling well enough to want to drink. I just sat and syringed water into her mouth, over and over again... Made me feel like I was doing something, and I think I even got a little bit in her that way, but of course, much runs out. That's OK. At least wet his mouth, it might just increase his appetite for water.

Make sure if you're feeding him anything, it's wet... wet green grass, verrrrrry watery soupy senior mash. And only small quantities at a time on this.


I would also hold off now on the electrolytes until you get the blood work back. Sometimes if they're dehydrated and/or kidneys are compromised, the wrong balance of electrolytes can really mess them up.

[Vegashorselady]

Oh no SWMS, I hope you can get him drinking again soon!

One thing that works with my mare that is picky about drinking away from home is to put one or two handfulls of sweet feed in a gallon of water and let it soak for an hour or so. She loves it and drinks up all the water to get to the sweet feed at the bottom.

[vicklynn]

Suggestion.
I make a puree for Mysts meds, she gobbles it up.
I make it thick but it can be made thin and watery.
In a blender, add carrots and apples, or what ever your horse likes, add water, blend, pour on food. Less carrots and apples, more water for thin stuff.

If he likes it, make a blender full of thick stuff, keep in fridge, take out what you need daily and add water to it, mix and pour. Maybe add salt to it too.

Man I hope that helps.

[oursarge]

That's a good idea Vicky, I am going to try that with Sarge if I run out of Bute Paste maybe I can hide the pills in it. Wonder if it would work with wormer???? If I just mix it up in the dry food he won't eat it, Rompy won't eat the wormer like that either, Dommie always did, food, wormer, molasses and he licked the pan but these two won't. Sarge used to eat the Bute tablets out of my hand but now he won't, he won't touch the powder either.

Hope Rashad will start to drink. Poor baby.

[Suzi]

OH no !! I was so sorry to see there is more trouble. I am praying for you all.

[WashingtonBay]

How is he doing?... I guess it's evening out there by now...

[Tiz]

Is Rashad on pasture? Do you have much dew on the grass there overnight? Is the weather hot? Do the other horses drink much water?
Grass is up to 70% water, and if you add dew, horses may not drink much water when they're on lush pasture.
If you want to try to force him to drink, I'd turn a hose on with a soft stream of water, and stick it in his mouth. No further back then just past where his molars start. I doubt he'll drink that way, but as WB said, it would be pleasant for him to have his mouth wetted.

[farmers_wife]

Rashad is eating. I did see him drink a little. I think he pooped but not sure if that was from this morning. We will see what tomorrow brings.
Me and SWMS went into my pasture today and picked a spot out for Rashad.:( We wanted to do that together so if we have to make that decision we know where he will be buried at. It was sad. She took some pictures.
The blood work is suppose to tell us if his kidneys are working. so we should know that tomorrow.

[WashingtonBay]

I hope he does well through the night. I would follow up with the vet before it gets really late, if you don't think he's yet in the clear.

[pandorasmom]

My heart goes out to both of you! I hope those blood results end up turning out good and this is just a fluke thing. I wish all of you the best!! You'll all be in my thoughts and prayers. I know when my sister sent bloodwork off for her horse, how long it seemed before the results came back. I wouldn't want anyone to go through anything like that. Hugs to y'all!!! :)

[WashingtonBay]

Rashad is eating. I did see him drink a little. I think he pooped but not sure if that was from this morning. We will see what tomorrow brings.
Me and SWMS went into my pasture today and picked a spot out for Rashad.:( We wanted to do that together so if we have to make that decision we know where he will be buried at. It was sad. She took some pictures.

Planning's always good, whether it's tomorrow or in a year or five. Bless your hearts.


The blood work is suppose to tell us if his kidneys are working. so we should know that tomorrow.FWIW, when the pony was in kidney failure, she didn't stop drinking, she drank a lot most of the time (there were exception days when she felt too lousy to do anything) but most markedly, she lost her appetite first. She wouldn't eat. So the symptoms, as he's presenting don't exactly point to renal failure to me, on their own. My two cents, I didn't stay at a holiday inn last night and I only know my own case, and those I read about researching. His trouble, if it's more than just a couple of close coincidences, may be lots of things. Does he have any sarcoids?

[TheBadLands]

Oh no.. I am SO SO sorry...

I hope he pulls through

[RipSpark]

I am so sorry!!! Poor guy. You all are in my thoughts.

[shewasmyshadow]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs122.snc4/36466_403476105951_514475951_4955089_4599288_n.jpg

He's eating grass, but still not drinking. Our plan is to heavily wet down everything we give to him. Other than that just grass.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs061.ash2/36432_403514155951_514475951_4955658_3233946_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs060.ash2/36341_403514080951_514475951_4955657_7203949_n.jpg

This is the place we picked for his grave sight. It was SO beautiful, quiet and tranquil. I told Faith that I wanted to be buried there too.

[oursarge]

I hope he won't be needing that site for a long time. WB when Noah had his kidney problems he stopped eating too, the water was never an issue. What was weird with him was when he had his tests his numbers were always good but he showed every sign of kidney failure including the pain like my late cat Misty showed when she was in the end stages of kidney failure. I could never figure that out. How could the tests show one thing and his body another.

I sure hope Rashad will be better, this is just all so sad.

[Peggy Sue]

if he isn't drinking much I would back off the electrolytes and extra salt ... might try putting some flavoring in his water ... offer flavored and regular to him

[Horseaholic]

oh swms and FM I hope that Rashad doesn't have to see that beautiful spot you've picked for him just yet.

[WashingtonBay]

if he isn't drinking much I would back off the electrolytes and extra salt ... might try putting some flavoring in his water ... offer flavored and regular to him

Agree... Electrolytes aren't good if we're even wondering about dehydration and kidney function. They can really upset the balance.

[PatriotsDreamer]

im praying for him and hope for a good outcome. im soo sorry you have to go through this

[vicklynn]

Very pretty area picked out for Rashad. Lets just hope it is not needed.

[AUEquine]

So what does the vet say when they are there? Any possible diagnosis?

If he needs water, why does the vet not leave an NG tube in and have yall give oral fluids every few hours? If it's an impaction this is the best way to resolve it. I know I'm not there to see what's going on, and I realize he is an older horse, but I'm shocked the vet isn't doing more. Has she rectaled him? What does she feel? Has she belly tapped him... older horses can be prone to strangulating lipomas. Of course he'd be alot more painful in that case. I understand the wait and see approach with the first colic, but two this close together. Also he's a grey, so there could be an internal melanoma that is causing pain/pressure somewhere.
Sorry guys the vet tech in me is coming out!
Many prayers and hopefull thoughts coming Rashad's way!

[farmers_wife]

Auequine - Jessica can probaly expain better so I wont comment on that. I know the vet said he can not give him IV because of his heart murmer. something along those lines. He did a rectal last time.

I just came in and Rashad had drank some and I did see a pile of poop. So that is good.
I try to put him out on wet grass in the mornings. we put apple juice in his water and we wet down his food. going to bed, lets see what tomorrow brings.

[shewasmyshadow]

So what does the vet say when they are there? Any possible diagnosis?

If he needs water, why does the vet not leave an NG tube in and have yall give oral fluids every few hours? If it's an impaction this is the best way to resolve it. I know I'm not there to see what's going on, and I realize he is an older horse, but I'm shocked the vet isn't doing more. Has she rectaled him? What does she feel? Has she belly tapped him... older horses can be prone to strangulating lipomas. Of course he'd be alot more painful in that case. I understand the wait and see approach with the first colic, but two this close together. Also he's a grey, so there could be an internal melanoma that is causing pain/pressure somewhere.
Sorry guys the vet tech in me is coming out!
Many prayers and hopefull thoughts coming Rashad's way!

Vet said that his murmur is severe enough that doing an IV on site could kill him. He said if we took him to a hospital then they could do a slow drip and that would be great, but I can't afford that. I'm already working on a good $400+ when this is all said and done. I'm having to consider was is right in this situation. Do I strip my family of necessities to keep my aging horse alive? (It's not that severe yet, but if could get there.) It's a burden right now just to figure out what I should do! So, I do appreciate all the honest opinions of my caring forum friends. My husband thinks we should put him down if it happens again. If Rashad wasn't so happy in every other way, then I would agree. However, he has never been so happy. He is a perfect weight, still loves going out to the pasture, seems content, wants to be near people and snuggle. It's making it very hard. I cried for at least an hour tonight just trying to think about all this. What will I do without his shoulder to cry on? What will I do when I need someone to taking me down the road and help me relax? Who will teach my son to ride? And who will keep all my deepest secrets and never tell...

Anyways, we'll know more tomorrow. The blood work will come back and we'll see if there's anything serious going on. Also, AU if there is a blockage (a build up of minerals in the gut?) it takes awhile for it to work it's way down to where he could feel it during palpitation. Even if he could feel it, the only option is surgery unless he passes it naturally. Of course, I can't afford surgery. Even if I could I don't think Rashad would be a candidate for it.

[JackieB]

Thinking of Rashad. At his age, I would just keep him happy and comfortable for as long as he wishes. I definitely wouldn't get aggressive with treatment, but that's just me. I want exactly the same for myself when I get to that stage in my life. Just to be happy and enjoy the company of loved one's for however long is appropriate.

[AUEquine]

Oh I definitely understand not going for the gold standard on an older horse! I'm by no means insulting your methods, just wondering what the vet was thinking in diagnosis. And the fluids I was suggesting are oral, not IV. You pass a tube as you do for reluxing and mineral oil, leaving it in. Then every 2-3 hours you pump about 8L of water into their stomach. Basically proving the old saying wrong that you can't make them drink. That way the fluid goes through the stomach and reaches the impaction quicker than it would with IV fluids. It's just our quick cheap way of heading a colic off in the beginning. Not alot of refering vets use this method since they usually don't want to hang around or leave their tube. But some do if you promise to return the tube. This was just the first thing that popped in my mind when I read about ya'll being so worried about his drinking. Since it is quick and cheap.
But please don't take offense to my questions. I'm very glad to see an owner who has a level head. I see too many throw themselves into hock for a 20+ and even 30+ year old horse. I know we love them so much, but we must think of our families first. So I am in no way saying ya'll arn't doing the best for him. Just thought this could be an option, and wondering what the vet was thinking was causing his discomfort!

[shewasmyshadow]

Oh I definitely understand not going for the gold standard on an older horse! I'm by no means insulting your methods, just wondering what the vet was thinking in diagnosis. And the fluids I was suggesting are oral, not IV. You pass a tube as you do for reluxing and mineral oil, leaving it in. Then every 2-3 hours you pump about 8L of water into their stomach. Basically proving the old saying wrong that you can't make them drink. That way the fluid goes through the stomach and reaches the impaction quicker than it would with IV fluids. It's just our quick cheap way of heading a colic off in the beginning. Not alot of refering vets use this method since they usually don't want to hang around or leave their tube. But some do if you promise to return the tube. This was just the first thing that popped in my mind when I read about ya'll being so worried about his drinking. Since it is quick and cheap.
But please don't take offense to my questions. I'm very glad to see an owner who has a level head. I see too many throw themselves into hock for a 20+ and even 30+ year old horse. I know we love them so much, but we must think of our families first. So I am in no way saying ya'll arn't doing the best for him. Just thought this could be an option, and wondering what the vet was thinking was causing his discomfort!

Never crossed my mind that you were insulting me. ;) I'm just a little teary and flustered. My typing skills are evidence. :o The tube thing is a good idea. I had no idea they could do that. I'll keep it in mind. Thank you.

Right now it sounds like the apple juice water finally worked. If that is the key to Rashad drinking then I'll go to walmart and buy him enough juice to have it all day every day.

[Bessie13]

I have been following this thread. It just makes my heart ache for all of you. I understand the emotional connections between horse and owner/s. What you do know is that he is happy because he has been loved by you and your families. He has lived such a wonderful life because of you all.

If he were mine, which I too have two older horses, I could not afford to be overly aggressive with treatment. As much as I would want to do so, sometimes we just have to acknowledge that every one of us has a time to live and also a time not to live. Whatever is in his future, one thing is for sure. He has had a very happy home. Wonderful people and children for him to teach and for them to love on him.

My prayers are with you all and I personally hope that you have many happy years to come with him. He is on special horse.

[AUEquine]

Right now it sounds like the apple juice water finally worked. If that is the key to Rashad drinking then I'll go to walmart and buy him enough juice to have it all day every day.

Be carful with a sugary juice out in the heat.

[Steelhorserider]

Hoping Rashad recovers quickly.

[oursarge]

My heart is breaking for you. Reading what you wrote about Rashad is how I felt with my Dommie, he was who I talked to. I loved him so much. He also had a heart murmer but we didn't know it until the last day, he didn't have it when checked not long before that. I didn't have a choice when his time came, he wouldn't make it to the vet hospital which is a couple hrs away and I had to make that awful decision and still can't talk about details of that day. I don't even know what killed him, colic, but not sure what brought it on, the vet things tumors in his intestines. Two days before he died 2 lumps came out, I thought they were from the May Flys because he was very allergic. The vet was sure they were more but we didn't do any testing since it wouldn't do any good anyway, my baby was gone and I have not been right since.

I truly hope that he will come out of this and go on for a long time. Only good thoughts for you.

[farmers_wife]

Rashad seems better today. He ate his grain and there were 4 piles of poop. He really wanted to get in with Dolly because he was running around. So he is with Dolly and buttercup. He only drank a little. I am going riding with Monte today (hopefully come back alive:)) for a little ride. He has not been ridden in a while. See you all later.

[oursarge]

Glad that things look better today, hope it all stays that way. Ride safe.

[shewasmyshadow]

Be carful with a sugary juice out in the heat.

Could you expand? Do you mean because it could go sour?

[shewasmyshadow]

Got the blood work back. The vet said everything looked good. I forgot to ask for a copy. I'll call him a bit later and ask. I kind of milked him hard for every detail. :p I asked him a lot of questions about colic.

[WashingtonBay]

If you can get a copy it might be interesting... I just got one back for Bay, and I have a good source for what all the measures mean, I just have to find it.

Did he offer anything that sticks out on colic, or Rashad's symptoms in particular?

[TheBadLands]

So glad he's better today! Enjoy your ride

[shewasmyshadow]

If you can get a copy it might be interesting... I just got one back for Bay, and I have a good source for what all the measures mean, I just have to find it.

Did he offer anything that sticks out on colic, or Rashad's symptoms in particular?

I'll try to get that. Do you want to PM me the fax number?

He suggested the mineral build up in the interestines. It rolls around and gets stuck every once in awhile causing the frequent colics. He said it may pass on it's own or just keep causing colic episodes. He might be able to feel it eventually if it works it's way back enough.

[Palogal]

Could you expand? Do you mean because it could go sour?

It's not good to give them too much sugar in the summer, can give him a stomach ache and you'd be right back where you started.

[WashingtonBay]

I'll try to get that. Do you want to PM me the fax number?

He suggested the mineral build up in the interestines. It rolls around and gets stuck every once in awhile causing the frequent colics. He said it may pass on it's own or just keep causing colic episodes. He might be able to feel it eventually if it works it's way back enough.

Sure... I'll PM it in a moment here...

That's a cause I'm not familiar with at all! Mineral buildup... I'll have to look around for more info on that (later - trying to work kinda now) Is this a result of diet, or age or ????

Did you answer on thread anywhere whether he has any visible sarcoids or not? I ask because he's grey, and if they have visible exterior ones, they often have hidden internal ones as well.

[Tiz]

Maybe he means sand? In any case, psyllium daily would be a good idea.
Does he stay on grass 24 hours?

[Vegashorselady]

He suggested the mineral build up in the interestines. It rolls around and gets stuck every once in awhile causing the frequent colics. He said it may pass on it's own or just keep causing colic episodes. He might be able to feel it eventually if it works it's way back enough.

You mean like an enterolith? That can be serious bad news! Have you seen anything that looks like smooth pebbles or rocks in his poop? If the vet thinks that is happening I'd get him on a psylliium supplement pronto if he isn't already on one. Maybe he just has small ones now that will pass but they can get big and cause a blockage in the intestine that would require surgery to remove.

[WashingtonBay]

I wondered if sand... but you'd think then he'd say sand.

If he means enteroliths... then yeah - they can be bad news... but also should involve a diet change to prevent them. They're a calcium/phosphorous imbalance I think commonly found in Alfalfa diets, particularly when combined with Rice Bran, I think. Heh... that one needs Sedona Thunder's pics again. Hers (the horse ;)) are the only ones I've seen.

here's a link: Enteroliths As A Cause of Colic in the Horse (http://evrp.lsu.edu/healthtips/Enteroliths-Colic.htm)

[shewasmyshadow]

You mean like an enterolith? That can be serious bad news! Have you seen anything that looks like smooth pebbles or rocks in his poop? If the vet thinks that is happening I'd get him on a psylliium supplement pronto if he isn't already on one. Maybe he just has small ones now that will pass but they can get big and cause a blockage in the intestine that would require surgery to remove.

That sounds right. So if Pyslliium would help, then why didn't the vet mention it? I asked him a few times about sand colic type stuff and he never mentioned doing a supplement.

WB- Have you heard anything about Senior Feeds causing this? I mean Rice Bran might be in one of his feeds.

[JackieB]

That sounds right. So if Pyslliium would help, then why didn't the vet mention it?

Not all vets agree that psyllium is helpful in removing sand. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to give it, though.

[shewasmyshadow]

I wondered if sand... but you'd think then he'd say sand.

If he means enteroliths... then yeah - they can be bad news... but also should involve a diet change to prevent them. They're a calcium/phosphorous imbalance I think commonly found in Alfalfa diets, particularly when combined with Rice Bran, I think. Heh... that one needs Sedona Thunder's pics again. Hers (the horse ;)) are the only ones I've seen.

here's a link: Enteroliths As A Cause of Colic in the Horse (http://evrp.lsu.edu/healthtips/Enteroliths-Colic.htm)

Farmers_wife-Please read the article. Real good info. What do you think about suggestions at the bottom? We could do the daily grazing and try to add some vinegar into his grain/water feedings.

Does anyone know if the Vinegar has the same affect as the Pyslliisum stuff?

[Tiz]

So, is he left on pasture all day and night now?

[shewasmyshadow]

So, is he left on pasture all day and night now?

Unfortunately he will not stay out in the grass pasture by himself with his buddy. His buddy can not handle grass 24/7. :( So he's out as often as his buddy can go with him. He does have a grass part in his private turn out, but it's on the far end away from the other horses, so he will not use it. I know, could my horse be ANY pickier? :o Last we talked we were going to water all dry feed. You're still doing that, right Faith?

[shewasmyshadow]

Have a mentioned how AMAZING Faith has been through all this? What a friend. :) I am so blessed. I can't even express how thoughtful and selfless she has been through all of this.

[Vegashorselady]

Sand colic is a very serious concern here in the west. I don't know a single vet in Vegas that doesnt recommend psyllium in the diet. For horses that are known to have problems with enteroliths I have heard a few vets here recommend the vinegar, it balances out the ph levels (or something like that) and is supposed to help prevent them from forming.
I know these things probably aren't as common in your part of the country but if that is going on with Rashad I would definitely start him on these things.
There are some good articles on these topics at thehorse.com

[WashingtonBay]

Farmers_wife-Please read the article. Real good info. What do you think about suggestions at the bottom? We could do the daily grazing and try to add some vinegar into his grain/water feedings.

Does anyone know if the Vinegar has the same affect as the Pyslliisum stuff?

Psyllium, or Sand Clear, is for a different problem: Sand in the gut. It turns to a gel and the sand is supposed to stick to it and pass through. You'd know if you had sand, from doing a poo test in a baggie.

Enteroliths are a different thing. They are a hard stone that forms in the gut, made up mostly of calcium and other excess minerals. Here are pics of enteroliths Sedona found in Timber's poo, shortly after she bought him. These are small and easily passable. Evidently sometimes they can be quite large and cause blockages.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=129&pictureid=857

Timber had been on an alfalfa and rice bran diet before she got him, which is particularly significant in causing them, but you may have to watch any diet that is more than 50% alfalfa. They will not get these if they are not on alfalfa.

[Vegashorselady]

I believe that sand in the gut can also be linked to the enteroliths though, if I remember correctly the mineral buildups will form around grains of sand or small pebbles etc in the horses gut.(I'm just going off memory from articles and things I've heard from the local vets, never experienced this problem myself so not an expert!) I remember seeing a rather large enterolith that was cut in the middle to show a screw that it had formed around! Anyway, I would definitely do your research and take a close look at Rashad's diet!

[WashingtonBay]

That's true, it usually forms around something indigestible in the gut. It's a little like an oyster making a pearl ;) And I see now in the article that I linked but didn't read very well, that it's Magnesium/Salt and whatnot that it's made of not Calcium... Ah well... that's the gist of it. I should have stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. :)

[WashingtonBay]

I'd be interested to know why the vet thinks this might be a cause... is he on an alfalfa diet? Have you ever picked apart his poo to look for these things? If he is forming big ones, it might be probable that he'd also be making and passing smaller ones. Check for 'em.... just mash up his poo and look for little green rocks.

[natisha]

Couldn't an abdominal ultrasound pick up on stones if he had them? I know when Whiskey had all those done they could 'see' a lot of the bowel.
Also My mare Icky (an Arab) is not a big drinker, sometimes none overnight.

Fun fact: Water intoxication can occur in people, usually someone being dumb but more common in brain injured people where the brain doesn't sense that the body has had enough. I know you were all wondering:p

[WashingtonBay]

Maybe... I'm not all that impressed with ultrasound's ability to see anything. It's all globs and blobs to me. ;)

[natisha]

Maybe... I'm not all that impressed with ultrasound's ability to see anything. It's all globs and blobs to me. ;)I feel the same way when I see an US picture of a baby in the womb.

[farmers_wife]

Unfortunately he will not stay out in the grass pasture by himself with his buddy. His buddy can not handle grass 24/7. :( So he's out as often as his buddy can go with him. He does have a grass part in his private turn out, but it's on the far end away from the other horses, so he will not use it. I know, could my horse be ANY pickier? :o Last we talked we were going to water all dry feed. You're still doing that, right Faith?

We can do whatever you want. We can do the poop in a glove to see if there is any sand. I did have it tested over the winter and all the horses were good. But we can do it again. Rashad is on pasture some of the day and he has a mixture of hay. It is only 50% - 602% alfalfa. It depends on the year. sometimes it is less. I am still watering his feed.

[WashingtonBay]

Natisha... Oh I know, me too ;)

[Horseaholic]

Fun fact: Water intoxication can occur in people, usually someone being dumb but more common in brain injured people where the brain doesn't sense that the body has had enough. I know you were all wondering:p

yea like that girl that died from the radio station contest "Hold your wee and win a Wii" (when Wii's were impossible to get) she died later that night because they were pumping water into the contestants and she drank some ridiculous amounts.




Prado's colic was attributed to sand SWMS/FW. Apparently he had a copious amount inside of his intestines. He was also on senior feed as well with beat pulp. I think a lot of stupid stuff happened that day to make things as bad as they got. I feed sand clear religiously now. I get mixed feedback on it's effectiveness but I feed it anyway.

I can't imagine that the senior feed would be giving him a hard time because they actually feed watered down senior feed during the recovery as well as small bits of watered down alfalfa. When he cam home from the surgery I was still watering down his food for a while. There is this more expensive stuff that is apparently amazing for GI problems called succeed --> http://www.succeeddcp.com/ which I've gotten great feedback on from customers at my store.

[Suzi]

Glad to see he is doing better. Geesch...hope this is over.

[shewasmyshadow]

Here's the blood test results...

Requesting physician: EQUUS VETERINARY SERVICE R6353R
28609 HWY 19 BLVD
RED WING MN 55066

Veterinarian: LOMBARDO DVM, JONATHAN
Breed: Arabian

FLAG - TEST ----------------------------- RESULTS -- UNITS --- REF RANGE --

Animal Profile 2 (ANP2) Collection: 06/29/10 00:00
Glucose 84 mg/dL (52 - 121)
AST(GOT) 316 U/L (156 - 597)
SDH <2.0 U/L (0.0 - 60.0)
Total Bilirubin 1.4 mg/dL (0.4 - 3.3)
Cholesterol 94 mg/dL (59 - 125)
Total Protein 6.7 g/dL (5.2 - 8.2)
Albumin 2.9 g/dL (2.8 - 3.8)
Urea N 18 mg/dL (9 - 27)
Creatinine 1.5 mg/dL (0.4 - 1.9)
Phosphorous 3.8 mg/dL (1.7 - 5.8)
Calcium 11.6 mg/dL (10.2 - 13.4)
Sodium 135 mmol/L (130 - 144)
Potassium 3.7 mmol/L (2.9 - 5.6)
Chloride 100 mmol/L (92 - 107)
Bicarbonate 26 mmol/L (21 - 33)
CK 233 U/L (96 - 620)
Gamma-GT 10 U/L (5 - 51)
Anion Gap 13 mmol/L (7 - 15)
Globulin 3.8 g/dL (2.6 - 4.0)
A/G Ratio 0.8

No significant hemolysis or lipemia present. JAP 06/30/10 06:27

[shewasmyshadow]

We can do whatever you want. We can do the poop in a glove to see if there is any sand. I did have it tested over the winter and all the horses were good. But we can do it again. Rashad is on pasture some of the day and he has a mixture of hay. It is only 50% - 602% alfalfa. It depends on the year. sometimes it is less. I am still watering his feed.

I think watering the grain and the hay would be wonderful if it's not too much trouble for you. I hope there is no doubt in your mind that Rashad is as much your horse as mine. I know he holds both of our hearts. In my book that means he's both of ours. Two heads are better than one. Together I feel we can make more educated and ethical decisions on his care and ultimately his last hour.

[natisha]

Just wondering, when you say grain do you mean an actual grain, like seed type feed?

[oursarge]

My cousin's daughter is having a baby but nobody knew it. She put the ultrasound as her facebook profile picture. Anyone who knows me knows I can be a little simple at times and things go over my head, they call me "the remedial one" because I really do not get stuff sometimes. I wrote to her and said "Is that a picture of a rock?" I got a note from another cousin and she told me the "ROCK" was an ultra sound and the girl is expecting a baby in a few months. Guess it was supposed to be a secret but when you use it as your profile picture it doesn't stay a secret for long except if you are dim like me, only I would think that it was a rock!

So happy Rashad is doing better. You all have done so much for him, he is a lucky boy. There are so many horses who have nobody to love them and you all are doing all you can for him, he has so many people who love and care about him even though some of us have never even met him. He is a special boy and I hope you will have him a long long time. Extra hugs for him tonight. Monte too, I love Monte if we lived closer and I could afford it I'd take him just because he's cute! Hope he was a good boy when he was ridden!

[WashingtonBay]

Here's the blood test results...

Requesting physician: EQUUS VETERINARY SERVICE R6353R
28609 HWY 19 BLVD
RED WING MN 55066

Veterinarian: LOMBARDO DVM, JONATHAN
Breed: Arabian

FLAG - TEST ----------------------------- RESULTS -- UNITS --- REF RANGE --

Animal Profile 2 (ANP2) Collection: 06/29/10 00:00
Glucose 84 mg/dL (52 - 121)
AST(GOT) 316 U/L (156 - 597)
SDH <2.0 U/L (0.0 - 60.0)
Total Bilirubin 1.4 mg/dL (0.4 - 3.3)
Cholesterol 94 mg/dL (59 - 125)
Total Protein 6.7 g/dL (5.2 - 8.2)
Albumin 2.9 g/dL (2.8 - 3.8)
Urea N 18 mg/dL (9 - 27)
Creatinine 1.5 mg/dL (0.4 - 1.9)
Phosphorous 3.8 mg/dL (1.7 - 5.8)
Calcium 11.6 mg/dL (10.2 - 13.4)
Sodium 135 mmol/L (130 - 144)
Potassium 3.7 mmol/L (2.9 - 5.6)
Chloride 100 mmol/L (92 - 107)
Bicarbonate 26 mmol/L (21 - 33)
CK 233 U/L (96 - 620)
Gamma-GT 10 U/L (5 - 51)
Anion Gap 13 mmol/L (7 - 15)
Globulin 3.8 g/dL (2.6 - 4.0)
A/G Ratio 0.8

No significant hemolysis or lipemia present. JAP 06/30/10 06:27

Ah - OK so he sent it that way? I didn't get a fax.

Didn't see anything out of range there, that's good. I don't know if you remember my pony's completely out of whack numbers when she was failing or not. It's good to look at a bunch of normals! :) I have Bay's recent blood work too... nothing wrong, just a baseline check really, I have to run into town but I could post it later for chuckles and grins. Pony's too, for that matter, if anyone is interested in discussion what all the numbers mean! Particularly someone who knows more than I do. :)

[WashingtonBay]

Just wondering, when you say grain do you mean an actual grain, like seed type feed?

I think they're feeding some kind of Senior feed.

[Toodlestoo]

My cousin's daughter is having a baby but nobody knew it. She put the ultrasound as her facebook profile picture. Anyone who knows me knows I can be a little simple at times and things go over my head, they call me "the remedial one" because I really do not get stuff sometimes. I wrote to her and said "Is that a picture of a rock?" I got a note from another cousin and she told me the "ROCK" was an ultra sound and the girl is expecting a baby in a few months. Guess it was supposed to be a secret but when you use it as your profile picture it doesn't stay a secret for long except if you are dim like me, only I would think that it was a rock!



:oops::hysterical:

[Tiz]

Pasture 24/7 would be the best for Rashad. Maybe you could figure out a way to restrict the buddy's intake without restricting the old guy. Electric fence that you can move around...something?

[shewasmyshadow]

I think they're feeding some kind of Senior feed.

2 kind of Senior feed. Purina Senior and Progressive Senior. Purina is more palatable for Rashad and the Progressive has better quality ingredients. We mix them 50/50. On this diet he has looked the very best I have ever seen him. His sway back has gone away a little bit and his body condition is looking better than it has in 5 years. :)

[shewasmyshadow]

Pasture 24/7 would be the best for Rashad. Maybe you could figure out a way to restrict the buddy's intake without restricting the old guy. Electric fence that you can move around...something?

Well, most of the time he's just running loose anyways. He just eats grass in front of the other horses' paddocks.

[AUEquine]

Ultrasounds can't show the stones. On a colicing horse an unltrasound is first used to locate the spleen and kidney on the left side the rule out a nephersplenic entrapment. Then it is used to examine the rest of the abdomen. What you are mainly looking for is distended small intestines. And they appear on the screen as donut looking things. A normal horse should have 0-3 loops of small intestines visable, and they should be very active, contracting, swirling, and with thin walls. A distended small intesting in a colicing horse will be larger in size, with a thicker wall, and little to no movement/contracting. You also look for free fluid in the abdomen. An ultrasound doesn't tell us a whole lot but it's just another piece of the puzzle. The ultrasound can see the areas close to the skin, a rectal can only feel the back end of the GI tract, belly tap can tell us the condition of the gut tissue, passing a tube for reflux, etc. It's all giving us a little piece of the puzzle... It's like having 4 corner pieces to a 50 piece puzzle. There still alot more going on than we can know. Surgery can give us about 40 of those pieces, but even then we can't see everything. Cases like Rashad's are very frustrating. Next step could be a scope exam... but that may not reveal anything. I would definitely try some psyllium. I didn't really see any sand in Cash's float, but a round of psyllium fixed his chronic diahrrea. If it's possible impactions that he's getting you could work in a weekly bran mash with mineral oil. It's very effective for keeping things lubed up!

[shewasmyshadow]

Interesting. Would using mushy senior feed with mineral oil have the same effect? Rashad, again, is very picky and loves his Senior Feed. Not sure he'd eat a bran mash. Also, where do I get Mineral Oil?

[Horseaholic]

if you don't mind SWMS/FW....whats your view of effective psyllium supplements AUE?? which one works the best as far as really picking up sand?

[farmers_wife]

I think maybe we should cut out the applejuice in the water. Tonights rashads poop was very runny. One was almost watery. I could put him on pasture all day but there is no shelter and no trees, so the sun would be beating down on him. I dont want that.
We got to keep thinking. I am more worried about why he does not want to drink. I will see how much he drank tomorrow.

[AUEquine]

Interesting. Would using mushy senior feed with mineral oil have the same effect? Rashad, again, is very picky and loves his Senior Feed. Not sure he'd eat a bran mash. Also, where do I get Mineral Oil?

That would work to. Just remember to never syringe mineral oil into a horses mouth (as you would wormer). I should only be administered in feed or via a NG tube!

if you don't mind SWMS/FW....whats your view of effective psyllium supplements AUE?? which one works the best as far as really picking up sand?
Wal Mart Brand Metimucil (2oz/day)! This is what we use most of the time. With some horses that don't like the powedered supplements you can buy a horse pelleted form. But I just wet my metimucil (orange flavor) a little so it sticks to the feed, and they always gobble it right up. Can't say the same for the apple flavored electrolytes, not sure why they hate those! But the walmart brand is just as effective as the more expensive 'horse' psyllium in sand clear.
As far as the overall effectiveness of psyllium, I'm a true believer. I have seen it work on my own horses, as well as others. The worse case was a mini that was neglected in a dry lot and had eaten so much sand you could see it on the x-ray. We treated him with a horse size dose of psyllium and you could watch the sand disappear on the x-rays over about a 3 week time. There is a debate amongst the docs I work for as to whether it is better to do the psyllium 1 week out of each month or to do it all the time. But unless you are in a very very sandy area... ie.. living in FL, with your horse on a dry lot, eating off the ground, etc... You should be fine with the 1 week out of the month thing.
Sand is very irritating to the GI tract. It can cause impactions, ruptures, ulcers, colitis, etc. Never hurts to run a week of psyllium through them, especially since your blood work values are all normal.

[shewasmyshadow]

I have a big thing of Metamucil Clear and Natural. Would that work? We could put that into the feed with the water.

[Tiz]

Look at the label. Does it say it's made from psyllium?

[shewasmyshadow]

It says Inulin (100% natural vegetable fiber)