A Blessed Day in the Catalonia Region of Spain!

[JackieB]

What a wonderful day! I attended a bullfight in Spain. It was a completely depraved spectacle of animal torture. How Spaniards have been able to dismiss this suffering as important to their "culture" is beyond me. Hopefully, this represents the beginning of the end of bullfighting throughout Spain.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/07/28/spain.bullfighting/?hpt=T2

Barcelona, Spain (CNN) -- Catalonia became the first Spanish mainland region to ban bullfighting after its parliament voted Wednesday to outlaw the tradition on animal cruelty grounds.
The vote was 68 in favor and 55 against, with nine abstentions.
Those who see the ancient tradition as animal cruelty were ecstatic about the vote, celebrating in the street outside parliament. Fans of bullfighting said the decision, however, does not mean it will disappear from other regions in Spain.
Some analysts have said Catalan nationalism -- including the desire by some in the region for independence from Spain -- played a part in the vote. The upcoming regional elections for parliament later this year may have also had a role.
Bullfighting is an ancient tradition in Spain, and fans say it combines culture, ceremony and artistry. Opponents, however, consider it animal cruelty.
Activist Aida Gascon, of the Anti-Bullfighting Party, known as PACMA, said she has attended just one bullfight in her life, and that was only to get a sense of the bull's suffering.
"Bullfighting is part of Spanish culture," Gascon said. "But that should change. Many traditions disappear as the society advances."
Enrique Guillen, 24, lamented that he might be the last Barcelona-born bullfighter to take the "alternativa," or ceremonial fight in the ring against the biggest bulls to become a full-fledged matador, which he did last year at Barcelona's sole remaining bullring, the Monumental.
Guillen's father worked at the bullring, opening the doors for bulls to charge in to face matadors and their death.
"My father brought me to see the bullfights when I still had a pacifier," Guillen said. "It would be frustrating not to be able to give to my children what my parents gave to me."
The number of bullfights across Spain has dropped by a third in recent years, mostly because of the budget constraints of local governments, which often fund the spectacles.
In Catalonia, there are now just more than a dozen fights a year and the Monumental bullring in Barcelona is one of the few places in the region that still holds fights.
A pro-bullfighting group called PPDF released a study predicting big economic losses for Catalonia if bullfighting were banned, mainly because the Catalan government would have to pay damages to the bullfighting industry, which holds long-term operating licenses.
"When the Catalan government and the opposition are working hard to trim the budget, how could they justify making big indemnity payments to the bullfighting industry, when it's not necessary," PPDF President Luis Corrales said.
Critics have disagreed, saying the economic impact would be minimal given the small number of fights still held in Catalonia.
The proposal to ban bullfighting started as a popular initiative in Catalonia and was accepted for consideration by parliament last year by a slim margin of votes. Since then, there has been an ever-intensifying debate, with bullfighting proponents and opponents gathering support from across Spain, even from abroad.
The ban is due to take effect in January 2012. It will not end bullfighting in the rest of Spain, where it still has a strong following in Madrid and in the south around Seville.
Spain's Canary Islands in the Atlantic Ocean does not allow bullfighting, but the ban in Catalonia is considered a bigger blow to the tradition.

[grandmadeb]

Yeah for the bulls!!!

[WashingtonBay]

Good news for bulls in that area, anyhow... though it sounds like it's banned first in the places where it was never all that popular anyway.

I would just never go to a bull fight. It's far too barbaric for my soft sensibilities.

There is great art surrounding it, no doubt about it. And great skill. I'm remembering the video that circulated last year of the incredible bullfighting horse that was really an amazing pleasure to witness. It would be sad if that discipline and tradition were lost, but maybe there's a way for it to be preserved and changed for a modern world with modern sensitivities.

[WashingtonBay]

FWIW, this is the video I'm talking about... Merlin. This is not gory if you focus on the horse, and just how marvelous he is. It's worth the watch.

This art and discipline should be appreciated and preserved, somehow, for a modern age.

YouTube- Merlin


Yes, the movements are all found in reining, cutting, and dressage... but without the bull... it lacks the drama.

[gabhainn]

just an awesome display ofthe El Rejonero and his horse's athleticism, I love Andalusians, gonna own one before I die. That spin at 1:50 is beyond description. WB there is a way to preserve it the rejeneo, in Portugal it is known as toureio ecuestre they put a large leather pad over the bulls back and shoulder into which the rejenero must thrust his spears. Despite how you feel about bull fighting it is a display of horsemanship that has no rival anywhere in the world.............Kevin

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Wow... that horse is spectacular. He's got a gift.

I went to a bullfight in Mexico about twelve or so years ago. I must admit it wasn't what I expected. I think I half expected to be horrified by it, and I really wasn't. Sure, it was bloody and violent and even cruel. But it was fascinating at the same time. The art of a truly skilled matador was something I hadn't ever considered before, and it was surprising and awe-inspiring to see. And it was all happening live... right there up close and personal. It's a high drama in real time, and they play for keeps. One of them is going to die. The intensity of it was so much more than I expected.

We insulate ourselves all of our lives from the basic cruelty and violence that is nature. Living things in nature, animals from the macroscopic to the microscopic-- die violently and cruelly in the claws and teeth of another beast. Animals in nature do not generally die quietly of old age. Only the apex predator has that luxury, if they're lucky. The bullfight was a reminder that man is that apex predator. Whether we like it or not we are participants in nature not merely observers apart from it.

All that said, though, of course I can see why so many people revile the practice of bullfighting. I suppose some day it'll be banned everywhere, but I don't think I'll be inclined to cheer when that happens.

[WashingtonBay]

just an awesome display ofthe El Rejonero and his horse's athleticism, I love Andalusians, gonna own one before I die. That spin at 1:50 is beyond description. WB there is a way to preserve it the rejeneo, in Portugal it is known as toureio ecuestre they put a large leather pad over the bulls back and shoulder into which the rejenero must thrust his spears. Despite how you feel about bull fighting it is a display of horsemanship that has no rival anywhere in the world.............Kevin

That I would pay to go see. Although, It's probably worth saying, the easier we make this on the bull, the more dangerous it is for both the matador and his horse, I bet.

Wow... that horse is spectacular. He's got a gift.

Isn't he? He moves as if his feet only need to touch the ground when he wants them to.

[WashingtonBay]

Despite how you feel about bull fighting it is a display of horsemanship that has no rival anywhere in the world.............Kevin

Now that I've found it again I've now watched it again, several times. The rider is nearly as marvelous as the horse, if there's ever a moment those two are not in complete harmony, it's not in the video.

[JackieB]

It would be possible to display the athleticism of the horses and matadors without ever killing, or even injuring, a bull.

And it's not true that "one of them is going to die". Matadors rarely die. The bull dies every single time. No bull is spared. If the matador doesn't like the looks of the bull, they ram a sharpened rod through its skull from point blank range (the man is standing behind a wall that the bull can't reach through) and it drops dead.

Also, by the time the matador gets into the ring, the bull has had to fight with the banderilleros, picadores, and apprentice matadors and is severely injured and has spent about half of its energy. They're all a bunch of #$%^& cowards.

Warning. Dragons lay beyond this point. There isn't an issue that I'm more passionate about than bullfighting. Sorry, but there just isn't an "other side" to this tortuous, barbaric tradition. I hate them for continuing to kill bulls in this manner (it takes about 15 minutes to kill each animal) and I will not back down. I'm sure we all have an issue that defines us that way, and bullfighting is it for me. I'm not threatening, and I absolutely respect the First Amendment, but this is not debating politics for me. I couldn't be true to myself if I gave one inch on this heinous, sadistic entertainment.

[JackieB]

Now that I've found it again I've now watched it again, several times. The rider is nearly as marvelous as the horse, if there's ever a moment those two are not in complete harmony, it's not in the video.

And they could do it without ever injuring a bull.

[JackieB]

This art and discipline should be appreciated and preserved, somehow, for a modern age.



Place a sensor on the back of the bull and tag that with an unsharpened "lance" like fencing or "counting coup". It could be done and the bull gets to go back to grazing in a pasture at the end of the day.

[WashingtonBay]

And they could do it without ever injuring a bull.

And I'm glad for that. Like I said upthread, I'd never go to a bullfight the way it's done in the video above, I'd be horrified at the barbaric nature. I'm not even sure I could stand to watch one with no blood until I know how it ends and that the outcome is good! I'd be a nervous wreck for the chance of a misstep. Heck. I don't even like to watch figure skating until I know they don't fall. ;) I do think it's more dangerous if the bull is not weakened and I wonder, if, in the effort to make it better for the bulls, we will injure more horses, more matadors (sorry I do not know all the correct terms for the players)

There are risk-takers, and I'm not one of them, but I do have an awestruck appreciation for what they can do.

[zoel_222]

I totally agree with ya JackieB!

[JackieB]

...I wonder, if, in the effort to make it better for the bulls, we will injure more horses, more matadors (sorry I do not know all the correct terms for the players).

WARNING - GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION

I'll tell you, if the matador had to take on the bull one-on-one from the very start, there'd be a lot fewer matadors and I sure wouldn't shed a tear for them. When the bull comes charging into the arena, it's one of the most fearsome and magnificent creatures you can possibly imagine. Muscles just bulging out everywhere. Head held high. But by the time the matador gets out there, the bull has been fighting for a long time and is already very, very seriously wounded.

There is dignity in it, though. But unfortunately, not one single ounce comes from any human. The bulls never, ever, ever, give up. They fight with courage even though they can barely stand anymore, until the sword finally goes through their heart. That part I did take away from that awful day.

By the way, I really appreciate that it looks like RD and Kevin have decided to let me have my say here (if that's the case). I just can't help myself with this issue, and I'd like to repay their consideration someday. It's just so emotional for me.

[WashingtonBay]

I understand the matador makes his own choice to be there, much more than the horses, and certainly more than the bull. I was making a value judgment that it would be sad if, to save the bulls, we ended up goring more horses because the advantage had shifted. I do think Merlin looks plenty nimble, but his safety is only measured in inches even against a weakened bull.


And I wouldn't say that no one will argue with you about this, it is no disrespect to argue and debate this fully, I'd fight if I disagreed in principle, but I don't. I'm a softy too, even if I can still respect the players involved for their art, when it is as well played as it is in Merlin's example. It's just stunning athleticism and guts. On everyone's part, including the bull.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I certainly won't argue the point. I fully understand why people find it barbaric. It is barbaric.

...and I... am a Barbarian. :)

[gabhainn]

I dont care for it myself, been to a few in my younger days, dont care about picadores or matadors just rejeneros. I am just in awe of the display of horsemanship and the talent of the horse. I discovered the toureio ecuestre and havent watched another style of bullfight.
I totally respect your opinions and passion on the topic..............Kevin

[JackieB]

I was making a value judgment that it would be sad if, to save the bulls, we ended up goring more horses because the advantage had shifted.

I'm sure they could come up with a way to deal with those sharp horns. But I guess we can cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm just elated that there is a toehold in Spain now on this issue.

I certainly agree that there is no disrespect in debating this issue. The problem is that there is no other side for me, and I won't back down. It would be kind of like debating with the Taliban about whether or not it's OK to beat a woman for allowing any skin to show through her Burka. There's nothing to debate from my point of view. I've been this way on this issue for 25 years now. It just gets me really worked up.

[JackieB]

I am just in awe of the display of horsemanship and the talent of the horse.

I totally respect your opinions and passion on the topic..............Kevin


Thanks so much, Kevin and RD.

No argument at all on the horsemanship and talent of the horse. If they could just start with the premise that bull/horse/rider must live to fight another day and leave uninjured if possible, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. That would be sporting.

WARNING: GRAPHIC
The picadors I saw in Madrid didn't do anything remarkable on their horses. The horses were heavily padded and blindfolded. The bull just runs full speed into the side of the horse and tries to lift it off the ground. If it is successful in getting under that padding, the horse will have its intestines ripped out by the horns.

This is the picadors job:


The picador has three main functions:
To pierce the muscle on the back of the bull’s neck in order to straighten the bull's charge.
To fatigue the bull’s neck muscles and general stamina as it tries to lift the horse with its head.
To lower the bull’s head in preparation for the next stage.
If the public feels that a picador is over-enthusiastic in his lancing they will whistle, boo or jeer as they see fit. This is because they do not want the bull to lose all its strength and energy as this can lead to a dull bullfight.

Cowards.

[mare]

I'm against bullfighting. If you need to kill an animal, kill it. No need or benefit to being a brute and toy with it like some ignorant animal.

Glad to see it banned.

[Tiz]

Though the horse, and horsemanship, are incredible, I don't ultimately see any difference in this, and dog or cock fighting. I don't see why they do it that way, when just annoying the bull would get the same response. I can't imagine watching this, through the conclusion, for entertainment.

[natisha]

Wow... that horse is spectacular. He's got a gift.
The gift is self preservation.
If something like that is coming after me I'm going to get real athletic too.

[mare]

The gift is self preservation.
If something like that is coming after me I'm going to get real athletic too.

lol. Exactly. Our grade, mutton-headed cow ponies and us in our ratty shirts and jeans move like that when a bull gets on the fight. And they do even without being tormented.

You made me think of the ranch friend when after doing a stress test told the doc, "I could have gone longer if you'd set a bull after me."

[Tiz]

Talk about reinforcing your aids...

[rocknK]

lol. Exactly. Our grade, mutton-headed cow ponies and us in our ratty shirts and jeans move like that when a bull gets on the fight. And they do even without being tormented.

You made me think of the ranch friend when after doing a stress test told the doc, "I could have gone longer if you'd set a bull after me."

After being chased by several old range bulls I want to start a new sport. It's called bull-shooting! A sport for which I am supremely qualified!!!!:p

[Tiz]

In our area, we had a man killed by a bull this year. You better have a gun, r, but you better be a good shot too!

[mare]

After being chased by several old range bulls I want to start a new sport. It's called bull-shooting! A sport for which I am supremely qualified!!!!:p

My first riding job in Wyo, was for a grazing association with 50+ bulls that stayed year round. I was issued a 9mm and bird shot loads for if you got corner by one of the bulls while doctoring or sorting.

Mercy, some of them had no sense of humor and just existing was enough to set them off.