Cop shoots teen who attacked his squad car with a baseball bat

[WashingtonBay]

And.... IMHO, there's very few cop shootings that have had as much clear evidence of justification as this one.

Surprisingly to me... I've seen debate about this. If you click through to youtube, you'll see some, and I saw it hotly debated on a couple of political forums too. We'll see how you folks think!

Don't know who this 'moxnews' handle is who has posted it, but it seems the best put-together report of those I found on the net, so I'm using it...

YouTube - Cops Kill Drunk 17 Year Old Armed With Baseball Bat

[twofingers]

justified

[WashingtonBay]

Agreed. That was a serious attack, wasn't it? Can you believe there's any question? I've never seen someone attack a cop like that. I did NOT get the feeling that kid was going to stop when he got through the window.

[dame_wolf]

I believe that the officer was beyond justified in using his weapon. What I do wonder about was if he intended to use deadly force or just did not have a clear view and chose center mass to ensure putting the assaliant down? I would feel sorry for the officer if he did not intend to deadly force.

ETA: I feel sorry for the officer even if he did intend to use deadly force.

[WashingtonBay]

I think they always shoot center of mass. Shooting to wound is not taught as a workable idea at any police academy or self-defense courses I know of.

[dame_wolf]

We had a close friend of the family that was an officer and while they did practice hitting center mass they also practiced hitting shoulder and thigh too. At least that's what he told me.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, it would be interesting to hear bout that.

I don't think this cop had time to consider a lot of other options. That kid was coming in the window.

The side windows aren't near as shatterproof as the front... are they?

[dame_wolf]

No, I don't think they are shatter proof. I'd ask him but they moved to Florida when he retired and I haven't spoken to him in years.

[Rie]

If the kid had already hit the side window at least once I doubt the officer would have been able to see exactly where he was going to put the bullet in him. It's sad for both parties involved. The cop and his family as well as the boy and his family. I think it might have been avoidable if the cop had actually moved his car instead of just slowly backing up, had he took off around the block came back and put a taser in the kid's butt then the kid could have probably been taken in. But of course it's hard to see with a shattered windshield and the officers choices were limited. IMHO the shooting was justified.

[WashingtonBay]

He backed up and hit another car. He may have been somewhat boxed in, considering he couldn't see.

[Arrow]

That kid looked pretty intent on killing that cop to me!

[WashingtonBay]

Agreed. And with vigor.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Yah. No question that cop's life was being threatened.

[JackieB]

Agreed. That was a serious attack, wasn't it? Can you believe there's any question?

No, I can't see why there would be any question. The young man was completely berserk. He would have killed the officer very shortly, or possibly anyone else who might have simply wandered onto the scene.

Suggesting that the officer shoot for somewhere other than the middle of the attacker's body also increases the risk of a miss and having the stray bullet hit someone else.

Sad all the way around, but especially for the officer who has to be burdened with taking the life, albeit 100% justified.

[mare]

You can kill someone with a baseball bat. And side windows are not shatterproof (which is good if you land in water and can't open a door - you can use a metal punch to break the side window glass).

Justified. And not like the cop didn't try to put some distance between him and the kid.

[Remali]

Appears to be justified, altho it looks as tho the cop may have been able to move forward with his car..... but it's kind of difficult to see in that video....

[WashingtonBay]

His windshield is completely smashed, and I think, unless he drove off, blind, at a high rate of speed (putting himself in considerable danger there) this kid was only seconds away from getting in.

A cop has no duty to retreat from such a person. In fact, they have a special duty, beyond that of a mere citizen, of protecting us from those people, IMHO. Justified, and very necessary for the public safety, IMHO.

[Arrow]

Once he decided to go backwards and got the windshield smashed, he had no choice to but to proceed as he did. I don't think it's possible to say he "should" have gone forwards. How could he know what would happen? This isn't his fault, yet you know he'll have to live with it for the rest of his life--it's a real shame.

[WashingtonBay]

It is hard on a person, but hopefully bearable if your conscience is clear. I hope his is. It should be.



It is a banner day when almost everyone agrees with something in the political forum :)

Boring, but notable.

[Arrow]

A clear conscience wouldn't help if you shoot a 17-year kid, I bet. One news article said that most in this cop's situation quit within 5 years.

[Remali]

I didn't say that he "should" have gone forward... I only said that it looked like he may have been able to...
and I did not say it was the cops fault......geez................................... .....
(maybe read my post before jumping on me please)

[natisha]

The cop gave the kid a ride home from an underage drinking party somewhere else. The kid went into his house & got the bat. He had it planned. Maybe the cop should have gone to the house with the kid & talked to his parents or maybe he did.
Either way a lot of lives will never be the same due to the actions of the kid. I'm sure alcohol played a huge part in his (the kid's) poor judgement.

[WashingtonBay]

I didn't say that he "should" have gone forward... I only said that it looked like he may have been able to...
and I did not say it was the cops fault......geez................................... .....
(maybe read my post before jumping on me please)

You said he may have been able to go forward, I considered that and countered with a couple of reasons why he shouldn't.


Remali, if I may, you have a habit of taking it personally every time someone actually debates something you say, and coming back with "why are you jumping on me". I didn't 'jump on you', I considered what you said, and countered your point with a couple of considerations that I think are better points than yours. That's fair, healthy debate, and is encouraged on a forum. At that point a good debater either stands his/her ground and defends their point, or concedes that maybe they were wrong. It's how we consider all the possibilities, and examine what we think. That's how the debate moves forward. It's not a bad thing! :)

Just sayin' is all. :)

[miatapony]

This kid had alcohol and THB in his system.... this cop did what he felt was right and i agree. he tried to help him.

[Remali]

No, WB.... to me I feel as tho maybe a few people are not reading my entire post.... and then sort of "putting words in my mouth".... just seems to be some people who do that..... :) Actually I was not referring to what you had posted WB, it was someone else.....
I can see where you are coming from, but I don't feel that way.

[Arrow]

No, WB.... to me I feel as tho maybe a few people are not reading my entire post.... and then sort of "putting words in my mouth".... just seems to be some people who do that..... :) Actually I was not referring to what you had posted WB, it was someone else.....
I can see where you are coming from, but I don't feel that way.

Well, if you're talking about me, I have to say that what I wrote immediately after you felt like one of the most innocuous and least contentious posts that I've ever made in the political section. I was just saying--hmmm...maybe, but what about this? In no way, shape, or form was I jumping all over you. Your post about feeling put upon surprised the hell out me, frankly.

[oursarge]

It is hard on a person, but hopefully bearable if your conscience is clear. I hope his is. It should be.



It is a banner day when almost everyone agrees with something in the political forum :)

Boring, but notable.

I very rarely can see videos, my computer freezes, I could only see part of this but if someone was coming at me with a bat I'd want to shoot him too [Except my grandmother who was afraid to live alone so she had a plastic baseball bat next to her bed for protection!]. I think the officer did the right thing but I think even though he knows in his head he did the right thing it will probably bother his heart to know that he killed a kid even though he was totally right in doing it.

Because I am like I am and want to know EVERYTHING on a subject no matter what it is I think it would be interesting to know more history like did this kid have a history of violence or did he just snap or what? Would the neighbors say "He was a nice quiet boy who helped us carry our groceries in and shoveled our driveway" or would they say he was like "Satan" and caused all kinds of trouble around the area. I know none of it matters or won't change things, I guess I'm just nosey.

Also what Natisha said about him giving the kid a ride home. Just goes to show you no good deed goes unpunished. It's a sad situation all around. In this case I feel worse for the officer than anyone. One of my husband's good racing friends is a detective on Long Island [ He races to ease stress] and the stuff he has seen it's just unreal and he says no matter what right or wrong they always get told they are wrong by the public. He is looking into retiring, I wish he would before something happens to him. He's such a nice guy.

[offgridgirl]

It's a very serious situation and the officer did what he was trained to do. Really, sad that it ended in a death. In any situation is easy to second guess or give options on "what could have been done", but in the heat of the moment, I'm sure the officer only wanted to stop this teen from doing him harm. Justified to stop him anyway he could but sad that the teen died.

[Remali]

And he even had given the kid a ride home..... you just never know I guess, sounds bad all the way around.

[natisha]

And he even had given the kid a ride home..... you just never know I guess, sounds bad all the way around.I understand he also gave the kid a ticket for underage drinking, maybe that set the kid off but it was probably alcohol.
RD is the only one I'm aware of who is improved with a few drinks ;)

[Remali]

I wonder, have they said if the kid may have been on anything else? Like coke or meth.... to go off like that, in such a rage...

LOL, yeah, I know a few people who improve with a drink or two too.... :)

[ninjaponeh]

My heart absolutely breaks for that officer- and for the kid's family. I think it was 100% justified.

[BlaiseGlaze]

justified.

[lacyloo]

If it would have been a drunk 21+ year old I highly doubt it would have got as much news coverage. Plus how was the cop to know whether the kid may have had a gun or knife on him? Using that much force with a baseball bat for no apparent reason proves that he was out of his right mind.

[cowgirlup@idaho]

The video said that he had just had a fight with his dad who called the police. This kid was out of control before the cop arrived. I'm curious if dad was injured? Did dad lock him out of the house because son was threatening him with the bat? Then the officer rolls up and rage is then turned on the cop? Justified and sad all the way around.

[miatapony]

somewhere in this story they did say he was drunk and under the influnace of THC (pot).

[natisha]

somewhere in this story they did say he was drunk and under the influnace of THC (pot).Never knew anyone to act like that on pot.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Never knew anyone to act like that on pot.

No kidding. Whatever was affecting him... it wasn't the pot that did that.

[miatapony]

well i was just going by what was on the video.

[vicklynn]

Justified

[Fork]

Completely justified. I've seen people do stupid things on alcohol but never anything quite that stupid. The THC would have made him calmer if anything. What enrages someone so much that they have to kill a police officer?