I got trampled.

[Fork]

Hey guys,

Before I say anything I really don't want to be jumped on for anything that happened today. I acknowledge that I made a stupid decision and I wasn't prepared for it. I thought I was taking it slow, when he didn't think I was. I was lucky that people were around to help me.

First stupid mistake I make is to bring him out of the field without a halter. He leads fine with the coupler. I try to get the halter on him and he shies away. Instead of making the smart decision to work on getting it on him, we go for a graze. Stupid choice, I know. Right now I'm all about walking around the yard to get him accustomed to being away from the field no matter what. So we walk right to the entrance of the arena and he seems okay. I don't push him to go any further than he needs to. Then he turns around and plows right into me. I get swept under his feet and he steps on my hip and foot. He narrowly misses my head. I stand up and yell for help. He runs to the nearest field.

We spend a good 45 minutes coaxing him and trying to get the halter on. Then we attach one lead to his halter and grab hold of the lead on the coupler. The three of us walk back to his field with a bucket of food. Once we get into the field, he bolts on us with one of the leads attached to the coupler. None of us can get near him again, but we leave him after we realize that the coupler was going to fall off anyway. I hate leaving halters on in the field but there's a time and a place for everything.

As soon as I got out of the gate, I realized that he'd followed me back (Yay!). I tried to get it off him at this point but he wouldn't let me. I gave him some treats to see how he'd react, and he was fine. I'm not at a total loss.

I'm not ready to give up on him because I know it was him being spooky, not malicious. He's not an aggressive horse. He got scared and did the only thing he knew of to get away. Everyone is telling me that it's not the end of the world. I have to pick myself back up and try again, even if it means going back to the start. Tomorrow is another day. Tomorrow I'm going to go out and spend some patient time with him.

Thanks for listening. :o

[natisha]

I'm glad you're Ok. Stuff happens all the time no matter how careful we are.
You sure are patient with him.
Got any neat bruises?

[Buckpoco]

This will give you a chance to rethink strategies. We all make poor decisons but they are useful if they learn from them...I sure know that for sure...it's so easy to let your guard down with horses!!!

[Fork]

[QUOTE=natisha;362747]I'm glad you're Ok. Stuff happens all the time no matter how careful we are.
You sure are patient with him.
Got any neat bruises?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trappedmemory/me/IMG00051-20101024-1432.jpg - At least I fell on some sand. :o

I wish I was more patient. Every time I try to go a step outside of his comfort zone, he flips.

[Fork]

This will give you a chance to rethink strategies. We all make poor decisons but they are useful if they learn from them...I sure know that for sure...it's so easy to let your guard down with horses!!!It definitely is. :) He's made me rethink everything about horses.

I'm glad you're Ok. Stuff happens all the time no matter how careful we are.
You sure are patient with him.
Got any neat bruises?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trappedmemory/me/IMG00051-20101024-1432.jpg - At least I fell on some sand. :o

I wish I was more patient. Every time I try to go a step outside of his comfort zone, he flips.

[natisha]

Ouch!

[natisha]

I wish I was more patient. Every time I try to go a step outside of his comfort zone, he flips.Maybe it's getting to be time to change his comfort zone.

[Fork]

Maybe it's getting to be time to change his comfort zone.What are some ways I can do that?

I try to go slowly. We were so good about grazing to the barn and back. Yesterday went so well. He walked so quietly and well beside me. He didn't spook or pull back once. I thought I could just push him one step further. Too soon I guess.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, at least this pony is keeping you humble. ;)

And hopefully, on your toes (not under his) from here on out!

[Petra]

Glad to hear you're not seriously injured.
Good luck with him.

[Fork]

Well, at least this pony is keeping you humble. ;)

And hopefully, on your toes (not under his) from here on out!I'm glad you have faith in me. :p

Glad to hear you're not seriously injured.
Good luck with him.Thanks :).

[Buckpoco]

This probably was mentioned before, I can't remember. Do you have a round pen? He sounds like round penning might really work with him.

[MyMia]

I'm glad you weren't hurt worse than bruises!

I don't think you can blame yourself for this happening. As much as we try to anticipate problems, things happen (especially with horses!) that are beyond our control. Good luck with him!

[TheBadLands]

:eek:

So glad you're ok!

[JackieB]

Glad you're OK. Those are very scary situations.

[Remali]

Glad you are OK. You didn't do anything wrong, it's so hard with horses that are jumpy. You just never know what may set them off. That roan QH mare I had for a short time (I leased her for a while), was so goofy that way, she was really a sweet horse.... but she would bolt just out of the blue. One day I was just standing next to her brushing her shoulder and neck, it wasn't windy, it was a quiet day and there was nothing going on anywhere.... all of a sudden she just bolted.... scared the crap outta me , I did not see it coming..... she bolted away from me tho so I was lucky. But, she pulled that a few times (once walking thru the pasture gate, the other time just standing still), I never was able to figure out what triggered her bolting. In her case, I think she was just a real tightly-wound horse.

A round pen sounds like a real good idea.

[Fork]

Thanks guys. My BO mentioned something about always wearing a helmet around him from now on. I think I might try that.

This probably was mentioned before, I can't remember. Do you have a round pen? He sounds like round penning might really work with him.I used to, but I don't anymore. There's a small paddock next to his that I could easily use. It's about the same size as a roundpen.

Glad you are OK. You didn't do anything wrong, it's so hard with horses that are jumpy. You just never know what may set them off. That roan QH mare I had for a short time (I leased her for a while), was so goofy that way, she was really a sweet horse.... but she would bolt just out of the blue. One day I was just standing next to her brushing her shoulder and neck, it wasn't windy, it was a quiet day and there was nothing going on anywhere.... all of a sudden she just bolted.... scared the crap outta me , I did not see it coming..... she bolted away from me tho so I was lucky. But, she pulled that a few times (once walking thru the pasture gate, the other time just standing still), I never was able to figure out what triggered her bolting. In her case, I think she was just a real tightly-wound horse.

A round pen sounds like a real good idea.Ouch! I can't figure it out either. Half the time he's the dead quiet, eyes half open lazy horse. He's spooked on me a few times before but it's always been in the opposite direction. I'm now almost positive that he spooked and went blind. I was the one who was nearest the entrance. He turned around and went in the direction that was out.

I'm going to go back out tomorrow and do what I normally do when I go to greet him. And then spend a couple of days just getting him back to me.

What could I do in the round pen?

[Tiz]

Fork, I want you to stop and think for a minute.

How long have you had Mitch? It seems like quite a while, but I don't know for sure.

If you had taken him from where you bought him to someone to train for you, would you be happy with his progress?

I want you to compare where he is in the process, and then consider what Madi did with her wild horse, and how much time it took. Give yourself some leeway, of course, but stay within reason.

I know you aren't a horse trainer, but I suspect you're sneaking around this horse, soothing him here and petting him there, and I'll bet he's wondering what the heck there is to be so nervous about. Could be he's giving everything a close look thinking there must be something there, since you're so cautious.

Add that he's learning really stupid and hard to correct tricks to defeat you. It's time to dump the baby steps program, and raise your expectations about what he can do. He will respect you for it.

:2cents: No offense intended. I hope you find something useful in what I've said.

[Fork]

Fork, I want you to stop and think for a minute.

How long have you had Mitch? It seems like quite a while, but I don't know for sure.

If you had taken him from where you bought him and took him to someone to train for you, would you be happy with his progress?

I want you to compare where he is in the process, and then consider what Madi did with her wild horse, and how much time it took. Give yourself some leeway, of course, but stay within reason.

I know you aren't a horse trainer, but I suspect you're sneaking around this horse, soothing him here and petting him there, and I'll bet he's wondering what the heck there is to be so nervous about. Could be he's giving everything a close look thinking there must be something there, since you're so cautious.

Add that he's learning really stupid and hard to correct tricks to defeat you. It's time to dump the baby steps program, and raise your expectations about what he can do. He will respect you for it.

:2cents: No offense intended. I hope you find something useful in what I've said.Nope, no offense taken. I like that you're giving me the hard talk. It's exactly what I need. :)

I've owned him for nearly 11 months. I've thought about taking him to a trainer, but I'm worried. I've heard so many terrible horse training stories that it makes me want to do it myself. I live in the middle of nowhere and knowing my area, I wouldn't be too impressed. I have a certified trainer on site that I can ask for help. I could set up times for us to work together (with pay). One of my BOs works with him every day on catching.

From months 0-10, I couldn't do anything with him. I'd walk into the paddock and he'd bolt away from me. Then I got smart and moved him really close to home. I have an entire routine every day. He's gone from the horse I couldn't get near to the horse who's always the first at the gate. I can go up to him, pat him, etc. I've recently been able to catch him without any major issues. We were at the point of where we could walk to the barn and back without any problems, up until today.

How can I train him differently?

[Tiz]

"...consider what Madi did with her wild horse, and how much time it took."

I'm serious about that. What she did is considered normal.

"We were at the point of where we could walk to the barn and back without any problems, up until today."

This is where you are after almost a year.

There are so very many training DVDs, books, tv shows now. Resources galore. In fact, I think Gaited has something for sale right now. Check them out, and you'll be happy with your progress in a few weeks, not months.

[grandmadeb]

Glad you are all right and not seriously hurt.

[Fork]

"...consider what Madi did with her wild horse, and how much time it took."

I'm serious about that. What she did is considered normal.

"We were at the point of where we could walk to the barn and back without any problems, up until today."

This is where you are after almost a year.

There are so very many training DVDs, books, tv shows now. Resources galore. In fact, I think Gaited has something for sale right now. Check them out, and you'll be happy with your progress in a few weeks, not months.What was the timeline?

It's after a year because I didn't give him the consistency he needed. I used to see him once or twice a week because he was so far away. Now that I see him more often, he's better. :) What videos would you recommend?

[Tiz]

Clinton Anderson is easy to understand and his approach is no nonsense. You would get somewhere following his methods, I'm sure. There is a bunch of others, Craig Cameron, Chris Cox, ect. ect.

[gabhainn]

I really have to agree with Tiz here, even if its only once or twice a week, you should have come much much further in a year. Its time to get after his butt and demand some respect and progress from this horse...........kevin

[Fork]

Clinton Anderson is easy to understand and his approach is no nonsense. You would get somewhere following his methods, I'm sure. There is a bunch of others, Craig Cameron, Chris Cox, ect. ect.Alright. I'll look up some DVDs from them for sure. :) I bidded on something on eBay from CA, but I may just join the club for a month and watch videos.

I really have to agree with Tiz here, even if its only once or twice a week, you should have come much much further in a year. Its time to get after his butt and demand some respect and progress from this horse...........kevinI know, and I regret everything I did before I got to this barn. I could have done so much more. I had a couple of days where I went out for 3-4 hours and tried to catch him. Nothing worked. It was frustrating.

I'm on track again and I'm ready to try new things.

[gabhainn]

I'm on track again and I'm ready to try new things.
And thats what counts, dont give up, be open to ideas, and learn from your mistakes.......Kevin

[Country Girl 43]

Glad you were not seriously hurt.

I have to agree with Tiz and Kevin. You should be much further along with the horses training.

I also know about time restraints... believe me, I have a LOT of time restraints and I have to work with 3 horses. I can see in ALL of my horses when I have slacked off. Dallas gets cranky, and pushy and sometimes down right mean, Joe gets too frisky and Missy gets lazy. Missy is the easy one... :) she just needs to be conditioned, but Dallas can't sit for too long before he gets...well.... stupid! :mad: And Joe... well, I am scared of him since my accident on him.

One thing I noticed about Dallas and Missy. They will ALWAYS come to me with a halter in my hand if I have been working them on a regular basis. But if I have let them sit awhile and they see me coming with a halter, they start heading for the back of the turn out. :doh:

You need to step it up a notch and start working your horse. ;) Catch him and put him to work either on a lunge line or round pen. START the ground work process. Eventually he WILL start coming to you. :) If you can do this for at least 3 days in a row, you will see an improvement. Then if you dropped to every other day, you will still see more improvement.

Another thing I found is that, if I leave the horses tied up for about 30 minutes AFTER their workout, it gives them time to "think" about things. I don't just bring them back to the pasture and turn them out after their workout. I tie them up and leave them alone and go do something else, like clean the trailer or stalls.

I hope all this made sense. :rolleyes:

[Flair]

Hey, I happened to see this thread and thought I'd pop in.

I'm gonna guess that Mitch probably has the same personality as Mitch (and it was weird as hello to type that so my Mitch is going to be the Mitchster like I call him sometimes) I suppose it's the Morgan/Fjord in him (similar in mentality to the Haffie in Mitchster) and so I think I can kind of see what's going on here.

If I've read back rightly, Mitch was a driving horse, right? It's probably amazing coincidence, but Mitchster spent many of his early years as a professional carriage horse pulling wedding carriages (I got to meet his owners last Christmas, and it was really nifty to see their place, and their carriages.) He wasn't really suitable as a riding horse, and that's one big reason why he flunked out of the therapeutic riding center, and pretty much most of the experience he's had under saddle has been with me these last 3 years. I feel we've made some real strides. I have had to make changes -- I ride him outside an arena in a short shank curb now rather than a snaffle, but he's really showing a lot of improvement, and it's taken a lot of work on my part.

Now, I'm going to guess that Mitch has a food drive. I know this kind of food drive exists because Mitchster has it (out the wazoo apparently) and he's so food oriented that I've made some big changes in how I handle this pony. For one thing, NO GRAZING. Zip. Zilch. Nada. He usually can snatch a few mouthfuls of grass when I put him in the round pen, but as long as I have a lead rope in my hand, and that lead rope is attached to his halter, he's not so much to look at grass or else I'll make a sound like Ah-Ah and tug on that rope. First things first is that he has to respect me as boss mare, and boss mare is controlling him from grazing. I personally don't approve of hand grazing, especially with food-oriented horses like Haffies, et al. Of course, it means Mitch never gets to graze, and it's a hard knock life for him, but I doubt it hurts him any. I think allowing a horse to graze puts them into a situation where they can call the shots, and takes the leadership role off you. A horse who's eating is not going to listen to you, and if they're going to want to spook, then they're darned well gonna do it.

This last spring I had a problem with Mitchster. He wasn't doing it because he was being a bad horse, but he knew his weight, and he was giving me the proverbial hoof. And maybe I'd relaxed a little too much because he was being so lazy and laid back (sound familiar?) that I figured that everything was all right. Well, starting in March, he pulled away from me while I was leading him back to his paddock, and turned it into a game of "Catch me if you can." with the other 3 or 4 people at the barn. Over the course of the next 3 months, he turned it into a major game. He knew he could take that rope out of my hand at any minute, and he usually waited till we were a step or two away from the round pen before doing a sharp right and streaking off. I got really really frustrated, and at one point was swearing up and down that I was going to sell him. I didn't post about this anywhere, but I do have a sort of journal of this in my LJ (I'm be more than happy to PM you with the entries)

I did get some of the Clinton Anderson DVDs, but don't think I was really getting anywhere with them. Finally, it got to a point that I just started working him in the round pen, and pushing him and pushing him, and pushing the envelope. Comfort zone? I knew his threshold, and pushed him past it. It took a couple of sessions, but what I ended up doing was running him. Canter, canter, canter, canter. No breaking stride till I said so. Break stride? Right back into that canter. Ok, now you'll trot when I say so, good. He was dripping wet after that. But I was pushing his buttons and making his comfort zone push its limits. Of course, now, he walk trots and canters on command. I didn't even have to teach him. But after those two or three sessions when he just got his butt whupped in the metaphorical sense, he's been amazingly well behaved.

Now, I don't go back into that stage of thinking that he's laid-back and lazy. I think it's a mistake we tend to fall into with thew "he's doing so good" idea. I say it a lot myself, but I don't let myself fall into the trap of laziness. It's the lazy ones you have to watch out for, they can throw you mentally off in a heartbeat I'm constantly watching him, and judging his moods. I've got a longer lead rope now, and can maneuver him without letting him hit the end. Plus, I'm not afraid to give him a good whack anymore. My Thoroughbred was a sensitive horse who would respond to the slightest cues, but Mitchster is the mentality of "MAKE ME". OK, don't do that? Smack with the end of the rope. OK, now he's listening. I usually do round pen work for a while before each ride. I don't run him into a sweat anymore, but I do ask for the gait changes, and then we go and work under saddle. For a horse that spent his early years pulling a carriage, he's doing a pretty good job as a trail horse (and a game pony to boot)

I'll add your training blog to my bookmarks, and try to make an effort to read it more often. I think we have horses with very similar personalities, and I'll try my best to help you out. It's really been an interesting journey with Mitch in terms of his training from a driving horse to a riding horse. I never really thought I'd be in that situation, but hey, things are looking pretty good.

Glad you were not seriously hurt.
Another thing I found is that, if I leave the horses tied up for about 30 minutes AFTER their workout, it gives them time to "think" about things. I don't just bring them back to the pasture and turn them out after their workout. I tie them up and leave them alone and go do something else, like clean the trailer or stalls.

I do this too! I usually put Mitch on the patience post, as I like to call it, or I'll pop him into the cross ties on the other side of the main tack room building where he can't see me and start pawing or dancing around while I'm mucking his paddock or something.

[Tiz]

About the collar you've devised for Mitch. If you don't have his nose, he'll learn to blast away from you as soon as you take hold of it. You can't begin to stop him with that set up.

Breakaway halters, with single leather crownpieces, can be had. When you catch him just snap a long lead rope to the halter. Don't try to grab the halter first. That way if he does his bolt thing, you'll have the tools to double him back to you.

[Tatesgram]

I agree with the others that have said step it up. I'm not going to chase a horse all over the pasture, but I am going to run them away from the feed, hay or the other horses until I say they can come in. If I walk out to get a horse, they either come to me or stand and wait for me to put the halter on them. And when they have a training halter on, it's work time, not play, no grazing.

I'm always suspicious of a lazy horse, they seem to be the ones that explode. I like an alert horse that is paying attention to me.

Good luck and, you can rent those DVD's from some online sites. It's like Netflix, keep them for a while and send them back. Cheaper than joining the club.

[Fork]

Hey, I happened to see this thread and thought I'd pop in.

I'm gonna guess that Mitch probably has the same personality as Mitch (and it was weird as hello to type that so my Mitch is going to be the Mitchster like I call him sometimes) I suppose it's the Morgan/Fjord in him (similar in mentality to the Haffie in Mitchster) and so I think I can kind of see what's going on here.

If I've read back rightly, Mitch was a driving horse, right? It's probably amazing coincidence, but Mitchster spent many of his early years as a professional carriage horse pulling wedding carriages (I got to meet his owners last Christmas, and it was really nifty to see their place, and their carriages.) He wasn't really suitable as a riding horse, and that's one big reason why he flunked out of the therapeutic riding center, and pretty much most of the experience he's had under saddle has been with me these last 3 years. I feel we've made some real strides. I have had to make changes -- I ride him outside an arena in a short shank curb now rather than a snaffle, but he's really showing a lot of improvement, and it's taken a lot of work on my part.

Now, I'm going to guess that Mitch has a food drive. I know this kind of food drive exists because Mitchster has it (out the wazoo apparently) and he's so food oriented that I've made some big changes in how I handle this pony. For one thing, NO GRAZING. Zip. Zilch. Nada. He usually can snatch a few mouthfuls of grass when I put him in the round pen, but as long as I have a lead rope in my hand, and that lead rope is attached to his halter, he's not so much to look at grass or else I'll make a sound like Ah-Ah and tug on that rope. First things first is that he has to respect me as boss mare, and boss mare is controlling him from grazing. I personally don't approve of hand grazing, especially with food-oriented horses like Haffies, et al. Of course, it means Mitch never gets to graze, and it's a hard knock life for him, but I doubt it hurts him any. I think allowing a horse to graze puts them into a situation where they can call the shots, and takes the leadership role off you. A horse who's eating is not going to listen to you, and if they're going to want to spook, then they're darned well gonna do it.

This last spring I had a problem with Mitchster. He wasn't doing it because he was being a bad horse, but he knew his weight, and he was giving me the proverbial hoof. And maybe I'd relaxed a little too much because he was being so lazy and laid back (sound familiar?) that I figured that everything was all right. Well, starting in March, he pulled away from me while I was leading him back to his paddock, and turned it into a game of "Catch me if you can." with the other 3 or 4 people at the barn. Over the course of the next 3 months, he turned it into a major game. He knew he could take that rope out of my hand at any minute, and he usually waited till we were a step or two away from the round pen before doing a sharp right and streaking off. I got really really frustrated, and at one point was swearing up and down that I was going to sell him. I didn't post about this anywhere, but I do have a sort of journal of this in my LJ (I'm be more than happy to PM you with the entries)

I did get some of the Clinton Anderson DVDs, but don't think I was really getting anywhere with them. Finally, it got to a point that I just started working him in the round pen, and pushing him and pushing him, and pushing the envelope. Comfort zone? I knew his threshold, and pushed him past it. It took a couple of sessions, but what I ended up doing was running him. Canter, canter, canter, canter. No breaking stride till I said so. Break stride? Right back into that canter. Ok, now you'll trot when I say so, good. He was dripping wet after that. But I was pushing his buttons and making his comfort zone push its limits. Of course, now, he walk trots and canters on command. I didn't even have to teach him. But after those two or three sessions when he just got his butt whupped in the metaphorical sense, he's been amazingly well behaved.

Now, I don't go back into that stage of thinking that he's laid-back and lazy. I think it's a mistake we tend to fall into with thew "he's doing so good" idea. I say it a lot myself, but I don't let myself fall into the trap of laziness. It's the lazy ones you have to watch out for, they can throw you mentally off in a heartbeat I'm constantly watching him, and judging his moods. I've got a longer lead rope now, and can maneuver him without letting him hit the end. Plus, I'm not afraid to give him a good whack anymore. My Thoroughbred was a sensitive horse who would respond to the slightest cues, but Mitchster is the mentality of "MAKE ME". OK, don't do that? Smack with the end of the rope. OK, now he's listening. I usually do round pen work for a while before each ride. I don't run him into a sweat anymore, but I do ask for the gait changes, and then we go and work under saddle. For a horse that spent his early years pulling a carriage, he's doing a pretty good job as a trail horse (and a game pony to boot)

I'll add your training blog to my bookmarks, and try to make an effort to read it more often. I think we have horses with very similar personalities, and I'll try my best to help you out. It's really been an interesting journey with Mitch in terms of his training from a driving horse to a riding horse. I never really thought I'd be in that situation, but hey, things are looking pretty good.



I do this too! I usually put Mitch on the patience post, as I like to call it, or I'll pop him into the cross ties on the other side of the main tack room building where he can't see me and start pawing or dancing around while I'm mucking his paddock or something.This is amazing information. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it out. Mitch is a very food-oriented horse. He's not pushy with the treats. I make him stand his ground when he's around me. If he makes any intention of putting his face in mine, I push him off. I was in the mindset that hand grazing was terrible until I incorporated it into training. He listens to really gentle pressure. As soon as I pull him up, I mean business and he moves. I completely understand that it lets them call the shots. Next time I bring him out, he won't graze. I have a terrible feeling that he's going to start the same game as your Mitch did. He's been pulling more and more recently, but it's usually in the field. This is where I should be working him. Every time he pulls, he should have to work. I'm just so stuck on what to do next. I don't even know how to get him from his field to the small paddock in behind. Can I work him in the field?

I know exactly what you mean about the round pen work. I had him in a round pen for three weeks to try to break his catching habits. I made him move every time I went out. I know I need to expect more out of him. I barely got rid of that habit before I was kicked out because the BO didn't want to take care of an extra field. :rolleyes: I really wish I had the pen because I know I could do so much more now. If you have any other good training exercises, I'd love to hear from you.

About the collar you've devised for Mitch. If you don't have his nose, he'll learn to blast away from you as soon as you take hold of it. You can't begin to stop him with that set up.

Breakaway halters, with single leather crownpieces, can be had. When you catch him just snap a long lead rope to the halter. Don't try to grab the halter first. That way if he does his bolt thing, you'll have the tools to double him back to you.I start by rubbing his neck and then taking hold of it. As soon as he's comfortable, I grab it and he's fine. I'd like to get some sort of breakaway halter on him because the no-halter thing just isn't working. That was working fine. I could take him out of the field without any problems.

I agree with the others that have said step it up. I'm not going to chase a horse all over the pasture, but I am going to run them away from the feed, hay or the other horses until I say they can come in. If I walk out to get a horse, they either come to me or stand and wait for me to put the halter on them. And when they have a training halter on, it's work time, not play, no grazing.

I'm always suspicious of a lazy horse, they seem to be the ones that explode. I like an alert horse that is paying attention to me.

Good luck and, you can rent those DVD's from some online sites. It's like Netflix, keep them for a while and send them back. Cheaper than joining the club.


I've spent hours in that 3 acre field. I think I need to devise an entire day to work on gaining his respect. I thought I had it, but now I don't know anymore.

I looked up that site but I'm not sure if they ship to Canada. If they do, I'd love to be signed up.

[Equine_Woman]

As somone who is around unbroke horses a lot it sounds like you have taken it a bit too slowly with him. You can't ask a horse to behave, you have to get their respect and MAKE them. He should be more afraid of your personal space than whatever imaginary booger that might get him because you are the boss and not him. Madi throws everything at her horse (almost including the kitchen sink) in the first week that she can get her hands on. They bounce balls off their heads, throw rain slickers at them, saddle pads, saddles, everything. The horses freak out for about 30 minutes and then they settle and realize none of it is hurting them. Then they do it again the next day and it only takes 25 minutes for them to settle. Repeat repeat repeat. They are kept in confined space though until they are easy to catch. Madi has been kicked and run over but only once. I assure you that horse was WAY too respectful after they finished that lesson to try it again. My theory is that a horse kick is WAY worse than anything I could ever do to a horse and I'll up the pressure to a level that gets my point across and gains respect. This is the number one reason I don't agree with the new natural style. It's not always sunshine and roses with horses and it's certainly not always pretty. To put it in perspective, How many times has your horse come in with bite marks from the pasture? I'll never inflict that kind of injury on my horse but I'm sure going to make them think I am. .. Even Sterling. Then once you have their respect it can be sunshine and roses for most of the time for the rest of their life. Much like a well disciplined child.

[Fork]

As somone who is around unbroke horses a lot it sounds like you have taken it a bit too slowly with him. You can't ask a horse to behave, you have to get their respect and MAKE them. He should be more afraid of your personal space than whatever imaginary booger that might get him because you are the boss and not him. Madi throws everything at her horse (almost including the kitchen sink) in the first week that she can get her hands on. They bounce balls off their heads, throw rain slickers at them, saddle pads, saddles, everything. The horses freak out for about 30 minutes and then they settle and realize none of it is hurting them. Then they do it again the next day and it only takes 25 minutes for them to settle. Repeat repeat repeat. They are kept in confined space though until they are easy to catch. Madi has been kicked and run over but only once. I assure you that horse was WAY too respectful after they finished that lesson to try it again. My theory is that a horse kick is WAY worse than anything I could ever do to a horse and I'll up the pressure to a level that gets my point across and gains respect. This is the number one reason I don't agree with the new natural style. It's not always sunshine and roses with horses and it's certainly not always pretty. To put it in perspective, How many times has your horse come in with bite marks from the pasture? I'll never inflict that kind of injury on my horse but I'm sure going to make them think I am. .. Even Sterling. Then once you have their respect it can be sunshine and roses for most of the time for the rest of their life. Much like a well disciplined child.It would be nice to keep him in a stall or smaller space to throw everything at him, but I can only board. I see him for an hour a day every day and it's the closest thing I can get to a routine. I couldn't punish him for being afraid of something or it would have confirmed that he was right to be afraid. I could have made him work after he ran away, but he was psycho. That's why I need to gain respect through groundwork and absolutely through sacking out. I have firmly pushed his nose when I felt like he was in my space. Next time I lead him, I'm going to use a lunge line instead (As Flair has suggested). I'm going to take him to that pen next to his field and work on him, including bombproofing.

I don't know where we stand on respect. It's like it comes and goes. I played the herding game with him a few weeks back and he came to me much more quickly than ever before. I'm sure if I played it now, I'd get even faster results.

Today I was able to approach him without any issues. I was able to grab the coupler and rub him all over his head (for once) and neck. I know he can do more than I'm asking him. It was honestly my fault for going out once a week and accepting the fact that I was never going to catch him. He affirmed that feeling.

[Equine_Woman]

It would be nice to keep him in a stall or smaller space to throw everything at him, but I can only board. I see him for an hour a day every day and it's the closest thing I can get to a routine. I couldn't punish him for being afraid of something or it would have confirmed that he was right to be afraid. I could have made him work after he ran away, but he was psycho. That's why I need to gain respect through groundwork and absolutely through sacking out. I have firmly pushed his nose when I felt like he was in my space. Next time I lead him, I'm going to use a lunge line instead (As Flair has suggested). I'm going to take him to that pen next to his field and work on him, including bombproofing.

I don't know where we stand on respect. It's like it comes and goes. I played the herding game with him a few weeks back and he came to me much more quickly than ever before. I'm sure if I played it now, I'd get even faster results.

Today I was able to approach him without any issues. I was able to grab the coupler and rub him all over his head (for once) and neck. I know he can do more than I'm asking him. It was honestly my fault for going out once a week and accepting the fact that I was never going to catch him. He affirmed that feeling.

I have full faith that you can do it!! And when you do you will be able to look back with pride in all that you've taught him!! (And I forgot to say in my other post that probably most of us have been knocked down and stepped on at one point or another in our horsey lives. Glad you are okay though after it!!)

[Fork]

I have full faith that you can do it!! And when you do you will be able to look back with pride in all that you've taught him!! (And I forgot to say in my other post that probably most of us have been knocked down and stepped on at one point or another in our horsey lives. Glad you are okay though after it!!)Thanks! :o

I'm not sure how to approach the leading issue. What can I do?

[Equine_Woman]

The lunge line is an idea but be VERY careful that none of it gets wrapped around you. Whenever Robert or Madi have a horse that runs off they (in a round Pen) just hold on and ski until the horse realizes he's not getting away. Not sure how you can manage that because it takes a lot of strength to do it and in a bigger area it'd be REALLY hard. If I were in your shoes I'd look for a trainer. (That's how I found Robert & Madi, who are now friends and practically family) There is no shame in calling in a pro! I needed them to start Sonora as I had no round pen to use and the times I tried to start her we just ended up backing into trees. lol

[Tiz]

"I couldn't punish him for being afraid of something or it would have confirmed that he was right to be afraid. I could have made him work after he ran away, but he was psycho."

I don't agree with this. He wouldn't have associated working with spooking, instead he would have been thinking about the work.

And please, leave the lunge line in the barn. As EW mentions, that could be disastrous. Just a 10 foot, easy to grip, cotton lead rope would be my choice.

Horses are just like kids. If you don't draw lines in the sand with them, they keep pushing. I think they're looking for limits, and are happier when they know them.

[natisha]

A little time on a tie ring & being desensitized at the same time will greatly help with leading issues.

[Equine_Woman]

A little time on a tie ring & being desensitized at the same time will greatly help with leading issues.

That's another great idea. They have thinking poles at R&M and they use them to desensitize. They throw just as much at them there and let them spook and realize they aren't being hurt as they do in the round pen.

[Fork]

That's another great idea. They have thinking poles at R&M and they use them to desensitize. They throw just as much at them there and let them spook and realize they aren't being hurt as they do in the round pen.How do they do it? Do they just tie?

The lunge line is an idea but be VERY careful that none of it gets wrapped around you. Whenever Robert or Madi have a horse that runs off they (in a round Pen) just hold on and ski until the horse realizes he's not getting away. Not sure how you can manage that because it takes a lot of strength to do it and in a bigger area it'd be REALLY hard. If I were in your shoes I'd look for a trainer. (That's how I found Robert & Madi, who are now friends and practically family) There is no shame in calling in a pro! I needed them to start Sonora as I had no round pen to use and the times I tried to start her we just ended up backing into trees. lolWould a soft line over the nose be any help? I have a certified trainer at my barn who I'm considering asking for serious help.

"I couldn't punish him for being afraid of something or it would have confirmed that he was right to be afraid. I could have made him work after he ran away, but he was psycho."

I don't agree with this. He wouldn't have associated working with spooking, instead he would have been thinking about the work.

And please, leave the lunge line in the barn. As EW mentions, that could be disastrous. Just a 10 foot, easy to grip, cotton lead rope would be my choice.

Horses are just like kids. If you don't draw lines in the sand with them, they keep pushing. I think they're looking for limits, and are happier when they know them.I'm all for things being corrected, but the corrections need to happen the moment they happen. If I could have jumped up and caught him sooner, I would have done differently. Those minutes between him running me over and him running away were lost. I don't know if he would have made that connection after that amount of time.

[Tiz]

I don't think I understand. I wasn't saying he should have been punished for running over you. I was saying he should have been caught and gone ahead with a lesson. A lesson about anything.

[WashingtonBay]

Hi - just catching up here. I think it's a great discussion so far.

I think what I gathered Tiz is saying is... it's not about punishment, I think it's about getting control and setting the agenda for the day... I think the mistake, fork, was in not entirely 'catching' him.... relying on just the coupler around his neck. I think the right use of the coupler is to give you something to grab until you can get him haltered. But I would get him haltered immediately, and then do something with him.

Right? I've missed a couple of pages in between. :)

[natisha]

YouTube - Josh Lyons demonstrate "The Clip"

The horse learns that not everything has to be reacted to & they aren't as strong as they think. I use a much longer rope than in the video because some will pull back really far but only the first few pulls.
HeavensEast's horse KC used to rear & run backwards when tied & he didn't lead so great either. A little time on the ring & he will tie anywhere now. Leads nice too.

[Fork]

I don't think I understand. I wasn't saying he should have been punished for running over you. I was saying he should have been caught and gone ahead with a lesson. A lesson about anything.I understand now. We couldn't even keep him on the line with two people holding him.

Hi - just catching up here. I think it's a great discussion so far.

I think what I gathered Tiz is saying is... it's not about punishment, I think it's about getting control and setting the agenda for the day... I think the mistake, fork, was in not entirely 'catching' him.... relying on just the coupler around his neck. I think the right use of the coupler is to give you something to grab until you can get him haltered. But I would get him haltered immediately, and then do something with him.

Right? I've missed a couple of pages in between. :)I agree! I have also learned a lot from this. Stupid, stupid me. Hindsight 20/20, we shouldn't have budged until I got a halter on him. The only issue with leading is that he turned around and bolted toward me, not away from me. It didn't matter what kind of rope was attached to him because I couldn't have grabbed onto anything. However it's possible that he did it because he knew I had less control over him.

natisha, is he using a Blocker Tie Ring? I had one of those and I regret selling it now. He ties okay as far as I remember. I've done the same exercise with a really long lunge line and I kept pulling the horse toward me. :) I can try that method, too.

[Fork]

I have new ideas that I really want to work on, apart from getting a halter back on him. I know he respects me sometimes, but other times it feels like he's still alpha. This is a big problem. I would like to...

1) Teach him to move away from pressure because I know he doesn't do this and he still moves away when he wants to move. If I can apply pressure to his poll, shoulder, etc and make him move, it's going to be my choice. Not his.
2) Teach him to back up on cue using a lunge line. Or is this too NH?

[natisha]

I have new ideas that I really want to work on, apart from getting a halter back on him. I know he respects me sometimes, but other times it feels like he's still alpha. This is a big problem. I would like to...

1) Teach him to move away from pressure because I know he doesn't do this and he still moves away when he wants to move. If I can apply pressure to his poll, shoulder, etc and make him move, it's going to be my choice. Not his.
2) Teach him to back up on cue using a lunge line. Or is this too NH?Once you get him standing on a ring (the clip is the same only it clips) you can have him move side to side. Backing on a lunge line is fine but I would start with a halter & lead. Don't worry about labels- if it works do it.

[Fork]

Once you get him standing on a ring (the clip is the same only it clips) you can have him move side to side. Backing on a lunge line is fine but I would start with a halter & lead. Don't worry about labels- if it works do it.Oh okay! They looked similar, so I thought they used the same concept. I'll start with the line before the lunge line, then.