Could HF, Tiz, rocknK, WB, WBoy, Mollie, and others be right? Nah, impossible.

[JackieB]

After being told in no uncertain terms that we had better get behind a bailout, um excuse me - rescue, package right now to purchase toxic assets...Paulson announces that they aren't going to use the money for that after all. Instead, we'll buy equity in the banks.

How can it be that something so imperative several weeks ago isn't even part of the plan now?

Let's not make this a Dems v. Republicans discussion (if we decide to have one). Both sides are more or less behind it. Fewer conservatives to be fair, but it still passed by a wide margin. And now Paulson is scrapping the entire initial plan in favor of further nationalizing banks.

[mtnmollie]

Wha t was I right about? which side am I on? What did I say?

who put words in my mouth?

I love it when people say I said what I did not say. :eek:

"Could Mollie, and others be right? Nah, impossible. " Yep. I agree.

All is well - peace be still- we all love one another- kum- bah- ya- yah.

[mtnmollie]

). Both sides are more or less behind it.

I'm not sure what it is that i am behind, Tom.

Behind the 8 ball maybe?

[rocknK]

I didn't like the urgency & magnitude. Something needed to be done. But when it didn't pass the first time you'd have thought the sky was falling. I think that was just a ploy for more pork. I've always thought of the stock market as an indicator of consumer confidence. If investors think the future looks like sh!t they pull out & stocks tumble. Well it appears to me that folks don't have much confidence in much these days. People were thinking that the Govt. has just got 850 Billion laying around in petty cash. Excuse me, they gotta go out and borrow that money then print more to pay it back. Anybody remember "inflation". Let me jog some memories, 22% interest rates & 10% unemployment. Remember a fella named Jimmy Carter? How's that sound for economic planning??:nono:
The old saying we learned as kids still applies. "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't".

[WashingtonBay]

Well, you know, even a stopped clock is right twice a day :)

[HoustonFarrier]

Get used to it :p:p

Steve

[rums_mom]

Not to mention that certain folks are refusing to release records as to where the money actually went.......hmmm.............the rich get richer?

[rums_mom]

Anybody remember "inflation". Let me jog some memories, 22% interest rates & 10% unemployment. Remember a fella named Jimmy Carter? How's that sound for economic planning??:nono:


And your point is?

If you want to rehash history, let's go back to the last time there was a democratic president. Think about what he inherited from a Bush administration.

Exerpts from:
http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/20000112_1.html

THE LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE SINCE 1969 AND MORE THAN 20 MILLION NEW JOBS. In 1992, when Bill Clinton was elected President, the American economy was barely creating jobs, wages were stagnant, and the unemployment rate was 7.5 percent. His bold, three-part economic strategy focused on three objectives: fiscal discipline, investing in education, health care, science and technology, and opening foreign markets. Today’s jobs release provides more evidence that this strategy is working:

The Unemployment Rate Was 4.2 Percent in 1999 -- the Lowest Since 1969. The unemployment rate was 4.1 percent in December bringing the average unemployment rate for 1999 to 4.2 percent -- the lowest since 1969. The unemployment rate has fallen for seven years in a row. It has remained below 5 percent for 30 months in a row. For women the unemployment rate was 4.1 percent -- the lowest since 1953.

Inflation-- Lowest Since the 1960s. Inflation remains virtually non-existent, with the underlying core rate of inflation at 2.0 percent this year -- the lowest rate since 1965. In the last four quarters the GDP price index has risen 1.3 percent -- the lowest rate of increase since 1963.

Yeah, I can get used to it...........:p

[rocknK]

I didn't mean to make this a party issue, just mentioned that it happened during the Carter Administration. Those were really bad times. Nothing compared to whats going on today.How about some links for that stats you provided.

[rums_mom]

:cowboy:Sure RocknK. Glad to oblige you.........

http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/20000112_1.html

[rocknK]

So, are you saying we should start carving Clintons face into Mt. Rushmore??:puke:

[rums_mom]

Oh quit it already would you? You brought up how awful it was under the Carter Administration, I bring up that Clinton inherited a mess from a Bush and turned things around, which can be seen as a comparison to our lives these days, and this is your reply?

[rums_mom]

More on the subject:

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=127&subid=305&contentid=250551

This article has some nice charts and a Power Point presentation. Even compares Clinton's years to Reagan's. You will just love that!

[JackieB]

I'm not sure what it is that i am behind, Tom.

Behind the 8 ball maybe?

The 8 ball. Cute.

Well, I'm specifically referring to the big bailout package. Not sure exactly where you stand on that one, but what our government is doing right now is definitely an example of nationalizing large institutions. So that falls under the "Big Government" and "socialism" umbrella that I'm pretty sure you have opposed.

The title of the thread is really a compliment to those I named. We pony up $700 billion and they are already changing their minds on us with regard to how it will be spent. Somehow, I can see a request for another $700 billion coming in the near future.

[gaited07]

The 8 ball. Cute.

Well, I'm specifically referring to the big bailout package. Not sure exactly where you stand on that one, but what our government is doing right now is definitely an example of nationalizing large institutions. So that falls under the "Big Government" and "socialism" umbrella that I'm pretty sure you have opposed.

The title of the thread is really a compliment to those I named. We pony up $700 billion and they are already changing their minds on us with regard to how it will be spent. Somehow, I can see a request for another $700 billion coming in the near future.


I was not for the first bailout package or the one that finally passed. The FDIC insurance needed to be increased but THAT IS ALL!
Once it was passed, I thought for sure that our president (and or government) would have come up with a more STABLE/SECURE way to disperse these funds with in the GUIDELINES of the BILL PASSED.
I too feel that they are now working on yet another bailout plan and yes, it scares me.

[HoustonFarrier]

nationalizing large institutions. So that falls under the "Big Government" and "socialism"

Bingo! I've said it before...I'll say it again....govt is NOT the answer....it is the PROBLEM.

The answer lies within each and every one of US. WE are responsible for our destiny and the destiny of this great country.

Take a look at gas prices....they went skyrocketing, now look at them. Did the govt do anything???? NO....WE CAUSED THE PRICE OF GAS TO FALL BACK. We stopped using so much gas, we REMOVED the demand, so the price dropped(Free Market Economics 101...Supply and Demand). We dumped all of our gas hogs, and bought small, efficient cars. That is the power that we have. Been to a car lot lately...they are practically GIVING away trucks. I got a truck that one year ago was 40K, for 22K.

Look at this so-called financial crisis.....where is it?? The crisis was greedy people stealing money. What we needed to do was track the bastards down, take the money back, and throw them in jail....and I can't for the life of me, figure out why no politician ever said that?

However, in the time since it became a "crisis", the banking industry and the financial sector seems to have found a way to keep things going. Sure, things are tight for some, but hey, that's life. Those of us who have been living within our means, who took the correct mortgages out, are doing OK. Remember all the clowns saying we wouldn't last the weekend if we didn't pass the bailout???? POLITICAL BS is all it is/was.

It's human nature....when someone is handing out free money....people will find a way to get it. Look at all the other industries now, wanting the free govt handout. I remember when Chrysler went bankrupt.....they are still here, still making cars...where is Lee Iacoca??? We could sure use him now.

Our govt needs to STOP the handout, and tell the industries to fix it themselves. The ones who go under, deserved too. I actually think the Dems idea to put a moratorium on foreclosures, and focus on re-negotiating failed loans is a good idea. Make the banks who gave these crappy loans get it RIGHT. Sure, they won't make as much money...but, that's life...maybe they'll learn a lesson?

Look at the airlines....all of them are still going, when the political pundits said they would all fail from gas prices. The airlines cut back, raised prices, made changes necessary to see THEMSELVES through rough times. That's what Americans do...when things get tough, we adapt, we change, we SOLVE our own problems and life goes on.

When we start wanting the govt to solve our problems, we are doomed.

Neither democrats nor republicans will solve our problems......WE must solve our problems, in spite of the politicians.

Steve

[alittleoffkey]

I wanted to offer a huge ditto to HF. We have to help ourselves. Having the government constantly save us from our problems (how's that for a big brother analogy?) won't get us anywhere.

[gaited07]

Bingo! I've said it before...I'll say it again....govt is NOT the answer....it is the PROBLEM.

The answer lies within each and every one of US. WE are responsible for our destiny and the destiny of this great country.

Take a look at gas prices....they went skyrocketing, now look at them. Did the govt do anything???? NO....WE CAUSED THE PRICE OF GAS TO FALL BACK. We stopped using so much gas, we REMOVED the demand, so the price dropped(Free Market Economics 101...Supply and Demand). We dumped all of our gas hogs, and bought small, efficient cars. That is the power that we have. Been to a car lot lately...they are practically GIVING away trucks. I got a truck that one year ago was 40K, for 22K.

Look at this so-called financial crisis.....where is it?? The crisis was greedy people stealing money. What we needed to do was track the bastards down, take the money back, and throw them in jail....and I can't for the life of me, figure out why no politician ever said that?

However, in the time since it became a "crisis", the banking industry and the financial sector seems to have found a way to keep things going. Sure, things are tight for some, but hey, that's life. Those of us who have been living within our means, who took the correct mortgages out, are doing OK. Remember all the clowns saying we wouldn't last the weekend if we didn't pass the bailout???? POLITICAL BS is all it is/was.

It's human nature....when someone is handing out free money....people will find a way to get it. Look at all the other industries now, wanting the free govt handout. I remember when Chrysler went bankrupt.....they are still here, still making cars...where is Lee Iacoca??? We could sure use him now.

Our govt needs to STOP the handout, and tell the industries to fix it themselves. The ones who go under, deserved too. I actually think the Dems idea to put a moratorium on foreclosures, and focus on re-negotiating failed loans is a good idea. Make the banks who gave these crappy loans get it RIGHT. Sure, they won't make as much money...but, that's life...maybe they'll learn a lesson?

Look at the airlines....all of them are still going, when the political pundits said they would all fail from gas prices. The airlines cut back, raised prices, made changes necessary to see THEMSELVES through rough times. That's what Americans do...when things get tough, we adapt, we change, we SOLVE our own problems and life goes on.

When we start wanting the govt to solve our problems, we are doomed.

Neither democrats nor republicans will solve our problems......WE must solve our problems, in spite of the politicians.

Steve

Could have not said it any better! I'm all for the "NEW" TEA PARTY!

[JackieB]

I was not for the first bailout package or the one that finally passed. The FDIC insurance needed to be increased but THAT IS ALL!
Once it was passed, I thought for sure that our president (and or government) would have come up with a more STABLE/SECURE way to disperse these funds with in the GUIDELINES of the BILL PASSED.
I too feel that they are now working on yet another bailout plan and yes, it scares me.

Paulson is talking and acting more like he is a CEO of a major investment bank again. He either doesn't seem to realize, or doesn't accept, that he is supposed to go back to Congress for approval if he changes his plan.

[JackieB]

That was very astute, HF. I agree with everything you said. Of course, you might be thinking "Why did you vote for Obama, then?", but I don't think this apparent lack of common sense our adherence to the Constitution is necessarily one party more than the other at the moment.

On a separate note, smokin' great deal on your truck. Congratulations! I paid over $28K for my F150 in 2002! Can we see photos, please? We'd like to share in your enjoyment of this awesome new vehicle.

[WashingtonBay]

Let's not make this a Dems v. Republicans discussion (if we decide to have one).

Well, it was a nice sentiment....

Next time, maybe preface it with "I have a dream". :)

[HoustonFarrier]

Paulson is talking and acting more like he is a CEO of a major investment bank again. He either doesn't seem to realize, or doesn't accept, that he is supposed to go back to Congress for approval if he changes his plan.

I could be wrong...but I don't think he has to. I think he was granted powers WITHOUT oversight. All he has to do is brief congress.....not get approval. Basically, the 700B is his to do with as he sees fit.

Steve

[JackieB]

I could be wrong...but I don't think he has to. I think he was granted powers WITHOUT oversight. All he has to do is brief congress.....not get approval. Basically, the 700B is his to do with as he sees fit.

Steve

I thought that some of the extra 100 pages they wrote into that bill was to put some apron strings on Paulson. I don't like the idea of CEO-type decision making here. Some CEO's are brilliant and their decisions guide companies out of a mess (e.g. Iacocca), but not all, and it's still just one person with the authority.

[HoustonFarrier]

but I don't think this apparent lack of common sense our adherence to the Constitution is necessarily one party more than the other at the moment.
I agree. And, I think I DO understand why you voted for Obama, even though I think he's not what we need now.......but, I hope get gets it at least close to right....because like it or not....if he fails....we ALL fail.

I fear that he will be a victim of his own party's politics. He defeated the Clintons....and people who do that have a bad habit of either disappearing or falling upon hard times.

On a separate note, smokin' great deal on your truck. Congratulations! I paid over $28K for my F150 in 2002! Can we see photos, please? We'd like to share in your enjoyment of this awesome new vehicle.
Photos coming......it was a truck ordered by Reliant Energy here in Houston. They ended up NOT buying it. I was at the right place at the right time!!! (For once)

Steve

[rocknK]

RM, thanks for the links. I'm sure that The White House & the DLC would never manipulate statistics to serve their purposes. Sounded alot like propaganda to me!

[rums_mom]

Funny, I just knew you were going to say that RocknK, you are becoming so predictable. So go ahead and find your own, then. What sources are acceptable to you?

[rocknK]

"Predictable", new meaning, anyone who has a different world view than RM.

[WashingtonBay]

Could be worse, she could have cussed you out and insulted you in some foreign language. :rolleyes:

[rocknK]

WB, I think her meds have kicked in.....forgive me Jesus.........:hysterical:

[Tiz]

Our government, Democrats and Republicans(substantially fewer Republicans) presented this bailout plan to the voters just like a car salesman who tells his customer the deal is only good if you sign up today. If John McCain had performed on this issue, according to his rhetoric, he would be President. He didn't even come close.
Did you know that AIG could have probably been purchased, lock, stock and barrel, for the $150 billion they got from the government to merely fix their problems?
I've been trying to convey to forum readers, friends, relatives, everyone who listens, that the people in government aren't made of some special ruling class cloth. They are no smarter then the general public, and the messy, disorganized, fundamentally corrupt way this supposed bailout has been handled proves me right. Yeah, Jackie, I said it. Right, right, right. Still right.

[JackieB]

Yeah, Jackie, I said it. Right, right, right. Still right.

And oh so humble, too. :p:p:p:p

[rocknK]

Good lookin' too!!!:rolleyes:

[Tiz]

RnK, how did you know?


Jackie, right, right, right, right, right, right, rrrrrrrr iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ttttttttttttttttttttt!

[Cat]

You know what - this really shouldn't be about parties because both dems and republicans were backing it and it came in under a republican president. Nuff said.

I just remember on the old forum voicing that I thought the bailout was a horrible idea and I remember getting thoroughly reamed for that view. Oh well.

[rocknK]

Well all I can say is if you thought it was a horrible idea is "join the club". I've tried to give some thought to the interest on 850 BILLION dollars. It makes my head hurt!