Side Passing... What am I doing wrong?

[All4Grace]

I have been trying to teach Gracie to side pass. But she just isn't getting it, so I figure, it's owner error.

I ask by opening my inside rein (direction I want her to side pass in) and apply leg pressure with the opposite leg while shifting my hip down to push with my hip as well. I am sure to keep my inside leg off her and try to push her sideways.

I have also started lightly tapping her shoulder with my dressage whip to give extra aid to my leg pressure.

What am I doing wrong here? She's turn on the forehand or just plain old tosses her head around when I try this.

I want her to learn to side pass so I can open and close gates from her back, and I have been thinking about do more obstacle training with her too just to give us something else to think about other then our normal dressage training.

Thanks in advance.

[mare]

And she already does shoulder-in and shoulder-out moves easily?

[All4Grace]

We're working on it. She leg yields well, turns on the forehand and on the haunches.
We haven't really done any shoulder-in work, that is I haven't focused on it. I am good at starting horses, she is the first I am trying to "finish" as in most of my horses prior either just needed tune up or to be started. I have never trained a horse to side pass before so I know it's my error in communication.

She is the first I am trying to teach everything I can to. I usually start horses and sell or tune up older horses that already know their stuff just need refreshers.

[WashingtonBay]

You know what I think helps? Have a particular point in space you are trying to side pass to. Favorite is a bottle of water on a post. It gives you a reason to do it, you want the water. It gives you something to focus on and aim towards, and most important, look at. Look where you want to go, not straight ahead, not at the horse, at the bottle.

I find that when you try to teach sidepassing out in the middle of an open space, with no goal in mind, you aren't looking where you want to go, the horse pivots and dances forward and back and gets confused, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to the horse. Everything they try is wrong. But if you try to sidepass to something, it's easier. Your communication is clearer, and the horse actually figures out what you want faster.

Start out just a step or two away. Work out from success. And when you can grab the water, be sure to drop and praise the horse, in addition to getting a drink. :)

[Buckpoco]

Julie Goodnight had a good program on about sidepassing...it was a couple of months ago...do you get RFDTV?

[All4Grace]

I do get RFDTV but always forget to pay attention for horsey shows!

We did have some success. I pointed her at the fence and started to ask by gentle pushing with my spur lightly she kept moving her haunches over so to make my point clearer, I added light tapping at her shoulder with my dressage whip. Once she made two side steps I praised and asked again. I got another two steps and I turned her and we did some canter and trotting work. Then I went back to the fence and asked again. She got nasty and started trying to rear up. :mad: so we did some flexing and bending, I asked again and we successfully got 3 steps. So I moved on and did some more canter and trotting. I went back to the fence and asked again this time only with my leg. She side passed for two whole fence panels (about 12ft) and I praised the crap outta her and called it a day.

She is not stupid, I realized I was not being clear enough. She was trying to understand but I was confusing her by not being consistent with my cues.

WB- funny you should say that as I said my goal was to move her two panels or from the end of the jump (outside my fence) to the manure bin, about 14ft apart. And we almost did it.

I watched so few video of Clinton Anderson and Jane Savorie and Julie Goodnight and a few others on youtube and went from there.

Tomorrow I'll work on side passing to the right. I only wanted to focus on one direction today.

thanks again.
I am still open for suggestions. At my home ring I can't do a lot of cantering and such as it is only an over size round pen but I am always looking to excercises and things to teach her that don't require a massive arena.

[Buckpoco]

The guy I work with had me start from the ground with a spur...just holding it in my hand and tapping with it until he moved...his head was against the fence. After a few weeks we started as you did...stick and spur, horse facing the fence.
Another thing that works well for me is I make Dice sidepass down the aisle of the barn if he wants to go out. I use the stick at the girth and slightly behind.

[offgridgirl]

Very nice description....I get the same reaction from my guy and he has done side-passing up the kazoo!!
Keep-on asking and praising....You are doing great!!

[AUEquine]

First you need to be able to move her front and hind end separately, turn on the forehand and turn on the haunches. Don't have to be perfect pivots, but being able to move them both separately comes before being albe to move the whole body.
I also find it helps to put them against a wall/fence/panel/etc to teach them. It prevents them from moving forward and makes the obvious action to move laterally away from the pressure. I had a huge problem teach Fiddler this until I put him up to the outside of the round pen. We could two a perfect half pass with forward motion, but when I asked for the sidepass he'd freak out. So I tried it at the round pen one day, and he fought me for a few minutes and then did it perfectly. I praised and praised, and asked again. Fought a little when we tried to go the other way, but then figured it out. In less than 10 minutes he was able to go completely around the outside of the round pen, both directions!
It can be very confusing for them, because up to this point they knew to move from leg pressure but also with forward motion. Now you're asking them to separate the two. Which they can do, but having the wall in front of them helps them make that distinction. Instead of you pulling them back, and they get frustrated because they think they're doing what you want by moving forward as well as away. Took me a long time to realize this with Fiddler. He was so frustrated with me one day that he actualy sat and laid down. Once I put the pannel in front of him and took away that option, and was therefore out of his mouth/face completely he understood. And it starts by just moving their back end one step, then the front end one step. Go back and forth until they start to move them together when you use the rein on the neck for the front and the leg to move the back end.