Assurance Feed

[shewasmyshadow]

So, Farmers_wife and I are mauling over feed choices. Originally Rashad was getting Purina Senior and a 12% sweet feed. I can't remember the poundage, but he got 50/50. He was also on free choice alfalfa/grass mix. That was when he was at my house.

Now at Farmers house she switched him to her brand of feed (I can't remember it's name right now...), but anyway it's expensive stuff! Along the line she went back to Purina Senior, but then heard some choking stories associated with that brand of senior feed. She then switched back to her expensive stuff. But this brand she uses is like $30 a bag!! Right now we're hunting for something that wouldn't be as pricey.

She suggested ASSURANCE feed. I know I've heard of it, but I've never talked with anyone who used it.

Here's the website:
http://www.assurancefeed.com/prod.shtml

So our questions would be:

Is this a good brand?

What type of feed should we go with if we went with them? Rashad appears to be eating enough hay to not need a complete feed and I was looking at the fat content in these grains...Rashad's main issue is keeping weight on, so with that in mind I don't think the senior would be right for him. I almost think the Equity Blend would be best. They all come in a pellet blend, so Farmers could still wet it down for Rashad. He has all his teeth, but tends to lose feed when he eats. Wet pellets seem to stay in his mouth the best.

Edited: I take that back I like the Endurance/Performance feed. It's got LOTS of fat.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, in talking about the details first, I don't think there's any particular choking risk with Purina Senior that wouldn't exist with any feed. Horses who are prone to choke, choke if they aren't fed properly, it's not the kind of pellet.

With him, I think you want a low sugar feed, but high fat and protein would be good. You say you think he's eating hay OK, but then that he's not able to keep weight on. It could be that he's not using hay as efficiently as you think. My Bay is on Orchard grass and just a pound of a ration balancer twice a day and is not having trouble keeping weight on.... if he was, I'd be starting to make the change to a Senior feed... but you have to feed senior at enough quantity. A little doesn't do much good. It's purpose is to replace what he's missing in the hay, not just the grain.

[shewasmyshadow]

How old is Bay? Rashad is going to be 28 in April.

How can you tell a feed is low sugar?

Edited to add: She's feeding the amount recommended by the feed rep.

[WashingtonBay]

Bay's 29 and I guess that means he's about to turn 30. Yikes.

But he's still got good teeth. Not all do. Has yours been floated recently? I don't think it's a good sign that Rashad drops feed. I usually think that means he's got hooks that are keeping his teeth from meeting up nicely.

Telling a feed is low in sugar is a little like reading tea leaves. You need the NSC content of the feed, and they don't often publish it (I haven't clicked you link above) You want to look for both molasses and corn to be fairly low on the list of ingredients (not the top), if they're there at all. You can email the feed rep and ask what the NSC content is.

If Peggy Sue sees us talking about feed, she'll find her way in here. She's better on the details than I am, it makes my head swim.

[luvs2ride1979]

I would give more hay instead of more feed. If he won't eat more hay, then give hay pellets.

My "hard keeper" has done WONDERFUL on a very simple diet. He's kept his weight on better than when were feeding uber-expensive feed, and a lot of it... He gets 25-30 lbs of grass hay a day (bermuda at the moment). For his "grain" he gets 2 lbs of chopped pre-bloom alfalfa hay (pellets would work too), 1lb of oats, and Uckele's Equi-Base Grass, once a day. The Equi-Base is a supplement with all of the vitamins and minerals needed by the horse and it has probiotics and digestive aids, to make sure he's digesting everything properly.

Uckele's mineral/vitamin line: http://www.uckele.com/equine/ezecommerce.cfm?fuseaction=productlist&subcategoryid=74

For your set up, I would go with 3-4 lbs beet pulp (no molasses), dry weight, a fat source (1 cup of oil, 1-2 cups of flax seeds, etc.), and Uckele's Equi-Base Grass (if his hay is 25% or less Alfalfa). You can throw in some whole oats if you want. I give them to mine as a treat ;). Once his weight stabilizes, you can cut back on the fat source and cut down on the beet pulp.

I'd get shredded beet pulp and soak it for about 15-20 minutes. Or, if you can't get beet pulp, then go with alfalfa/bermuda or Timothy hay pellets. Spray them with a little water to get the supplements to stick if you're NOT using oil. The oil will do the trick, so you don't need water then.

Molasses, corn, wheat, grain sweepings, and other similar ingredients are not good for horses. They can cause negative behavior changes, metabolic changes, colic, founder, and they can even make a horse lose weight quicker than before. A more natural diet is better for the horse's system and long term health.

[luvs2ride1979]

Also, at that age, he should be getting his teeth looked at every 6 months. He might not be grinding up the hay and feed very well. Soak his food well if he has any dental issues.

[Peggy Sue]

without an ingredient list it is hard to judge a feed... with an older horse you want easy to digest feedstuff, look for farage base and stay away from Corn,oats and barley when possible...

if he is dropping feed his teeth most likey do need to be done by an equine denist!! most vets know enough to get by but not enough for senior or problem teeth issues... I found this out the hard way

what is she feeding now ?? and can you get ingredient list on the feeds you are interested in??

[shewasmyshadow]

I should have added that he just had his teeth done. We took him to the vet and they used a electric tooth rasp. I felt the before and after and it appeared to have made a BIG difference. However, it didn't stop Rashad from losing feed. He's done that the whole time I've owned him-which is 13 yrs.

Also, he's getting free choice hay, so there no way to MAKE him eat more. He's NEVER been a big eater, so you have to take into consideration that he's not going to eat everything that is put in front of him. He'll spend about 10 minutes on his grain and whatever is left-over he won't finish. So, the trick is to get the most calories into him as you can in that short span of time.

P.S. CAPS doesn't mean I'm yelling. I just tend to CAP things instead of underlining to make a point. :) It's faster.

[WashingtonBay]

I'd consider too, going back to what was working before, if his weight was not an issue. I'd just skip the Sweet 12 and replace that quantity with the Senior.

If this Assurance is a good brand, and it seems like it probably is, their Senior might be the right choice, just consider upping the quantity as he ages.... split it up into multiple feedings if he's not good about eating a lot all at once.

[WashingtonBay]

if he is dropping feed his teeth most likey do need to be done by an equine denist!! most vets know enough to get by but not enough for senior or problem teeth issues... I found this out the hard way

And equine dentists may have taken a short weekend course or none at all. There is no standard of certification on Equine dentists, they're like farriers, it's a trade without any regulation. Do not be fooled and think they are equivalent to human Dentists, they're not. Some have been to good schools, some haven't. And none should give sedatives of any kind without a vet present. They are not veterinarians.

My vet is a heck of a lot more qualified than any equine dentist, but they do vary, from those who have taken a special interest in doing a thorough, sedated job, to those who sortof duke it out with a hand rasp.

It sounds like your vet, swms, is on the right track if he has a power dremel and did a careful job.

[Peggy Sue]

actually if you do your homework there is certifactions and standards to stay current... you knwo I have dug alot on it ...

[Peggy Sue]

http://www.equinedentalacademy.com/ with this school if you dont' take your refresher's you ar eremoved from their program ... but MOST don't do this

[WashingtonBay]

actually if you do your homework there is certifactions and standards to stay current... you knwo I have dug alot on it ...

The standards are set by the school and dentists choose to participate or not. There is no uniform standard for certifying equine dentists, that's the point.

[shewasmyshadow]

I'm going to wait to see if Farmers sees this. I want her to be in on the discussion. She's the one who sees Rashad everyday.

The weirdest thing is when we go for rides when we unsaddle him he looks like he's lost weight over the ride. Is that normal?

[WashingtonBay]

They can appear different at different times based on how they are carrying themselves. If Bay's just standing around loafing in the paddock, he looks like an old man in a speedo, back and belly sagging down.

But if he picks himself up and is alert and awake, he looks more toned and his ribs show.

[Apaches Mom]

Interesting topic since I have a 28 yr old myself. She LOVES to eat so it's not so much as getting her to eat, it's just getting the right stuff in her. So far it's 3 coffee cups of beet pulp, coffee cup of corn oil, one scoop of weight gain and then fill the rest of the coffee can with Purina Senior Feed. Then I fill the can up with water and let soak a couple minutes. ( When it's really cold out, this is mixed with warm water.) When I actually dump it in her pan, I add a little bit more water to make it soupy. I know it doesn't soak as long as beet pulp is suggested to soak but the senior feed breaks down really fast and makes soup in no time. She just loves it and slurps it up. Licks the feed pan clean too. And she'll try to convince anyone that walks by that she hasn't been feed in DAYS too! :) For the summer, it was only beet pulp and senior feed. But now that winters on its way (I refuse to believe it's here already) we've added the additional items.

What about water intake? Does anyone have trouble with their elderly horse drinking? Once it's cold, she doesn't seem to drink nearly as much. Which is anothe reason I add water to her food...

[WashingtonBay]

Water intake is a challenge with any of them when it's cold, yeah.

I wonder if I should be wetting down Bay's pellets all the time. I do add hot water when it's really cold, to make a nice soupy warm treat on cold mornings, and to ensure a little more water intake, but I don't do it as a matter of habit. It hasn't been a problem, yet, but I don't necessarily want to wait until it is, either.

[shewasmyshadow]

Okay here's the ingredient list for the Assurance Senior Blend:
Senior Blend

A Grain Mix for Mature Horses


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein

(Min)
14.00 %
Crude Fat

(Min)
4.50 %
Crude Fiber

(Max)
19.00 %
Calcium

(Min)
0.75

(Max)
1.25 %
Phosphorus

(Min)
0.50 %
Salt

(Min)
0.25
(Max)
0.75 %
Potassium

(Min)
1.40 %
Copper

(Min)
30 ppm
Selenium

(Min)
0.30 ppm
Zinc

(Min)
75 ppm
Vitamin A

(Min)
2,500 IU/LB

INGREDIENTS
Wheat Middlings, Soybean Hulls, Corn Germ Meal, Sodium Bentonite, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Vegetable Oil Refinery Lipid, Ground Corn, Malt Sprouts, Molasses Products, Calcium Carbonate, Ground Flaxseed, Lignin Sulfonate, Salt, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, d-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Dried Kelp, Mineral Oil, Zinc Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid, Selenium Yeast, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, d-Biotin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Propionate (A Preservative).


Senior Blend Textured
Concentrate Feed for Mature Horses
Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein (min)............................................. .................... 14.0 %
Crude Fat (min)............................................. ............................. 4.5 %

Crude Fiber (max)............................................. ....................... 19.0 %

Calcium (min)............................................. ................................ 0.9 %

Calcium (max)............................................. ................................ 1.1 %

Phosphorus (min)............................................. ......................... 0.5 %

Copper (min)............................................. .............................. 30 ppm

Zinc (min)............................................. ................................... 75 ppm

Selenium (min)............................................. ........................ 0.3 ppm

Vitamin A (min)............................................. ................... 2500 IU/LB

Ingredients
Alfalfa meal, wheat midds, soybean hulls, ground corn, soybean meal, cane molasses, beet pulp, soybean oil, calcium carbonate, salt, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, lignin sulfonate, D alpha tocopherol, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, niacin, sodium selenite, folic acid, vitamin A supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, pyridoxine hydrochloride, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, vitamin D3 supplement, cobalt carbonate.

It lost it's formatting... I have no idea how to make it go back. :(

[Peggy Sue]

OK the first ingredient list looks pretty good there is corn there but fairly low on ingedient list where as the second one has it right up close..... looks liek they ae suppose to be the same feed in different texture ... hmmm

[shewasmyshadow]

Peggy Sue-What do you think of Purina Senior? Or even Nutrena Senior?

[Peggy Sue]

NO comment they are BOTH grain based feeds ... IMO the one you are looking at SEEMS to be better on paper....

[Peggy Sue]

the assurance seems to be a "locally" produced feed which means IT SHOULD be more balanced for your area where as Purina an dNutrena are "nationally" produced with the same package...

[shewasmyshadow]

*waves* Farmers_wife!! Look here!!

She should be along when her bus route is finished. I want her to see this.

[farmers_wife]

Here I am. I feed Rashad Progressive premium senior formula pellet. I give him a big scoop in the morning with 1/2 scoop of oats with his supplements plus I give him Healthy E oil. And the same at night minus the supplements.
Here's whats on the progressive bag.
FORM OF FEED: Sweet and Pellet
PACKAGING: 50 LB paper bags

Premium - Senior Formula is a "Complete Feed" formulated to meet the special needs of the older horse and can be used for all mature horses when good quality hay is not available.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein min. 12.0%Lysine, min. 0.6%Crude Fat, min. 4.0%Crude Fiber, min. 20.0%Calcium, min.0.5%max. 1.0%Phosphorus, min. 0.4%Magnesium, min. 0.25%Copper, min. 25 ppm Zinc, min. 70 ppm Selenium, min. 0.30 ppm Vitamin A, min. 3,100 IU/lb Vitamin D, min. 310 IU/lbVitamin E, min. 50 IU/lbLbs/P.N.unit min. 7Advantages


A premium feed, formulated and balanced for the special needs of the older horse
For older horses that are unable to chew and digest hay and pasture
A complete feed that contains enough fiber to make up for little or no hay in the diet
Can be used to stretch a limited hay supply
Available in sweet, pelleted or cubed forms
Balanced Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids for enhanced hair coat and over-all appearance


Senior Formula Contains


Cooked oats and barley for ease of digestion
Fiber, including beet pulp, for healthy gut function
Balanced lysine and other amino acids for muscle maintenance
Vegetable oil for skin and hair condition
Yeast for improved digestive function
I want the best for Rashad but progressive is 19.00 a bag and he goes thru a bag in about 2 weeks. If you think this is good feed I will keep him on it. I do wet it down for him.

Here is the web page for the Healthy E oil.
http://d30050097.purehost.com/www.challengerfeeds.com/652.html

[Peggy Sue]

honestly the progressive is a GREAT feed but it is made in teh midwest which means that is where it is balanced for ... Try a the assurance for a month ... the NSC is prob about the same the only thing I don't like is the corn but it may be NEEDED to balance the mix for your area

I always recommended a GOOD local brand if you have one...

take lots of pics so you can compare them every couple weeks

[shewasmyshadow]

Peggy Sue (or anyone else if she doesn't know)- Do you know a MN brand that you would recommmend more? If so, what?

[Peggy Sue]

the Assurance is the only brand I ahve found in that area only ... besides the corn it looks like a good feed...

[shewasmyshadow]

Okay, now... Of all their feeds, which should she go with?

http://www.assurancefeed.com/prod.shtml

Do you think she should go with the senior feed? Or try something else pelleted? I can ask them for more ingredient lists on other types of Assurance.

[Peggy Sue]

with hhim dropping feed the senior is prob your best bet ... can you get the ingredient list on the grass ration balancer?? You could soak it with beet pulp and/or alfalfa PELLETS/cubes adn use it but that means mixing and messing which I HATE doing LOL

[Peggy Sue]

did you see this
http://www.assurancefeed.com/coupons.shtml

[shewasmyshadow]

did you see this
http://www.assurancefeed.com/coupons.shtml

No I didn't. Thanks!

Hey farmers! LOOK at this!

[Peggy Sue]

you guys can get FIVE of them EACH you and her LOL

[shewasmyshadow]

Oh, so the coupon is good for 5 bags per person? Nice!

[Peggy Sue]

says limit five couplons on first purchase only

so you print five she prints five and that is $10 you save ..... each coupon is $1 and you have a limit of 5 on Assurance and Equi Jewel products!!!

[Joey A]

Can you guys re-check the numbers on the Calcium and Phosphourus on those bags. The Assurance said that calcium is 19%?!?!?! That's like waaaaayy high.

And the Progressive gives a Calcium min of 0.5% to 1% max, and phos. at 0.4% min but no max.

Ideally you want your calcium to double your phosphorus. I'd reccomend a calcium supplement if you continue to use the Progressive feed, especially on a senior horse. I free feed a loose calcium mineral supplement.

[Peggy Sue]

Calcium (min)......................................0.9%
Calcium (max).....................................1.1%
Phosphorus (min)................................0.5%


Walkin the FIBER is 19%
LOL

[Joey A]

Yeah, well that's why I asked. That's what I get for being poor, I can't even pay attention.

[Peggy Sue]

hey I went and double checked thought maybe I missed that LOL

[shewasmyshadow]

Well, thanks for all the help everyone. I think you should try the assurance Faith. It seems like a good product. I'd be willing to do 5 coupons and you do 5 coupons. IF you have enough storage for that much feed. :D Let me know. I need to come and visit you and Rashad anyways.

[shewasmyshadow]

BUMP! Farmers did you see this yet?

[Peggy Sue]

OR you can go adn use five coupons and she can use five the next time :) then she won't have to store as much ...

[Peggy Sue]

Here is how you do it ... you take it five, then farmers take in five then mr farmer take in five then your SO takes in five ... LOL

[farmers_wife]

I am here. I am wondering which one is best for Rashad. I have seen good results with Progressive. For he fact that it is on the expensive side. SWMS if you buy one bag a month 19.00 I will buy the other 2 bags. I just hate to switch him when he is doing so good on it. And I would love to see you. When would you like to come over and visit me.:) Rashad is doing good.

[shewasmyshadow]

I am here. I am wondering which one is best for Rashad. I have seen good results with Progressive. For he fact that it is on the expensive side. SWMS if you buy one bag a month 19.00 I will buy the other 2 bags. I just hate to switch him when he is doing so good on it. And I would love to see you. When would you like to come over and visit me.:) Rashad is doing good.

Which feed are you talking about? Progressive or Assurance? I can just paypal you $20 a month if you want. That way you could just use it to go get feed. Since I'm not consistantly getting down there and I have a tiny car. :D

I am planning to come down. What does next Saturday look like for you? If I'm not painting the living room I'll plan to come down and visit you and Rashad. I find myself worrying about him in the winter. I KNOW he doesn't experience cold like I do, but because I tend to be cold ALL the time in the winter I always assume everyone else is cold too. We're going to the MOA tomorrow to get me a pair of lined jeans. I told Nathan it was that or I was going to gain a bunch of weight. I need something to keep myself warm this winter.:rolleyes:

[farmers_wife]

SWMS I just sent you a PM. Rashad is looking good. He has gained some weight and maybe I should keep him on the same feed since he is doing good on it. And if you want to paypal me 20.00 that would help out. He loves his grain and looks forward to it every morning and night.