Re-training flexion, bend and leg aids

[KittySawrus]

Hey hey hey, VERY long time no speak :D I know.

Well, things are going good with Hillie and now the ground's drier and we're both more confident in each others' presences (give or take a steep hill and a strange jerrycan or two) I've started schooling her in a nearby flat field.

She's doing very well with walk/trot/walk/halt/walk transitions and even the odd direct transition. Don't feel quite confident enough to work on her canter transitions (which need the most work) partially because she is really stiff/can't be arsed to bend.

Part of the problem is my aids, or perhaps her response to them - she moves right off the leg, so if I ask for bend around one, she misconstrues it as a signal to GO! and she's off, so I have to pull her back with seat and rein, and we lose the whole idea of bending.

So my question is 1) How can I re-balance the aids so she knows what means go, stop, and turn as far as hands & legs are concerned, and 2) how do you re-train flexion/bending? I think I'll be able to solve 2 myself with my own riding lesson history once I have 1 conquered.

Thanks all! I'll see if I can't get some pictures tomorrow night after we go for our ride :)

[natisha]

For starters keep try initiating the turns with only your hips. Turn your chin & upper body to the direction you want to go, that will automatically put your hips where you want them. Don't over think.
Also use this aid with something visual that makes sense to the horse, something to turn around or a reason to turn, such as riding into a corner, stop, then twist your body to suggest to her where you want to go. Keep your eyes in the desired direction, use back up rein aids after you turn your body if you need to. Don't worry about using legs at this point. You'll look silly but these are baby steps.

[mare]

I'm with Natisha on backing off the use of your leg and cueing with your hips/seat. Some horses don't need much leg at all. I also use objects as visual cues when riding and working on flexion, etc. Even small objects like a rock or a cone may help, even if it just helps you see how you two are moving in relation to it.

If you have a reason that your horse must tolerate and respond to more leg cues, there are ways.

[JackieB]

Katy! It's been so long. I was wondering is we'd hear from you again.

You've received good advice. I had a lot of trouble with getting this across to Buster, too. Patience and little steps were the solution.

I work on a lot of lateral flexion at the standstill. Flexing his neck. This helps get him started with the lateral stuff. Then I just very slowly started to add the inside leg and if he'd break into a trot, I'd stop and bring him down until I got to where I could touch his side with my leg without taking off. Then, when I could get him flexing around the tiniest bit, I just began to slowly add more.

Now, I can put a lot of inside leg on and if he speeds up, which he will still do occasionally, I'll just say "No, this is a walking exercise." and can bring him back down with my seat and light reins.

So I guess I'd say that there's probably no real mystery to it, just time, patience, and moving slowly.

[natisha]

I'm with Natisha on backing off the use of your leg and cueing with your hips/seat. Some horses don't need much leg at all. I also use objects as visual cues when riding and working on flexion, etc. Even small objects like a rock or a cone may help, even if it just helps you see how you two are moving in relation to it.

If you have a reason that your horse must tolerate and respond to more leg cues, there are ways.Agree.
KS, when you get this down we will add on to it.:)

[Reinmaker]

What I see most people do when they ask the horse to bend and give and the horse speeds up or pushes against their hand, or flips their nose up is they let go and and ask the horse to slow down.

So basically they just reward the horse by releasing the pressure and letting them slow to a walk or stop completely.

If I ask a horse to bend and he speeds up I pull harder on that inside rein and put more pressure on with the inside leg and pull them around in a tighter circle and break their rib free. Take your leg and move it back a bit. Squeeze then kick. Break that rib free and the neck and shoulders will follow.

[natisha]

What I see most people do when they ask the horse to bend and give and the horse speeds up or pushes against their hand, or flips their nose up is they let go and and ask the horse to slow down.

So basically they just reward the horse by releasing the pressure and letting them slow to a walk or stop completely.

If I ask a horse to bend and he speeds up I pull harder on that inside rein and put more pressure on with the inside leg and pull them around in a tighter circle and break their rib free. Take your leg and move it back a bit. Squeeze then kick. Break that rib free and the neck and shoulders will follow.Yeah, the pro showed up.:) As always you're spot on but I think, though this is just a guess, that the OP's horse is greener than green. Not sure if that makes a difference?

[Reinmaker]

It doesn't. ;)

[WashingtonBay]

I've posted my little 'turn aid' guy before... but I'll post him again...

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10044&stc=1&d=1301717538

Here's the description of what he's doing to get a nice, bending turn:

The red arrows indicate the direction of movement or pressure.

From the top down:

Eyes looking in the direction of the bend. Not at the destination, at a point in front of the horse on the circle where you'd like him to go. Allow your upper body to rotate also.

Inside rein starts the bend, outside rein sets and limits the amount of bend (and also in this case, keeps him from speeding up).

Inside leg at the girth plants and gives the body something to bend around. I think of it like the 'pole plant' before a turn snow skiing.

Outside leg moves back as needed to keep the hindquarter from swinging out and provide impulsion (A little goes a long ways on this horse)

[Reinmaker]

That is good stuff for a finished horse, and I am not trying to sound condenscending or sarcastic here.

In the practical world of breaking a stiff horse free that method would take years. Heck just a green horse. Some horses will give slight bend and follow the direct rein pretty quickly, but that doesn't mean you have achieved softness to any degree.

[WashingtonBay]

I'm sure you're right. I didn't make him for this, or a green horse, more as a description of what the aids are trying to accomplish in a bend.

He's just grist for the mill. :)

[natisha]

I'm sure you're right. I didn't make him for this, or a green horse, more as a description of what the aids are trying to accomplish in a bend.

He's just grist for the mill. :)I like him:)

[Reinmaker]

I'm sure you're right. I didn't make him for this, or a green horse, more as a description of what the aids are trying to accomplish in a bend.

He's just grist for the mill. :)

It is a great illustration.

[KittySawrus]

Thanks so very much for all the help guys!! It's great to get some good advice off some pros. I posted the same topic on my other forum (mostly Brits) and I haven't had one response yet, *huffs* :p I know where I can come to!!

And I would love to say I got to try it out today...but :( it rained an offensive amount this morning, and Hillie lives out year round without a rug so if it rains, I can't ride her for at least 3 hours (her winter coat's still pretty thick, hesitant to shed it off her just yet). I went out this afternoon with friends and I'm actually really peed off because it was glorious weather, perfect to have a little session in!! But alas, I was already booked :doh:.

Anyway.

It's all making sense and I know what I can try now. WB your illustration took me way back to a "turning point" riding lesson which really helped me learn how to ask a horse to bend properly, focusing on the seat and body.

It will all have to be tiny little baby steps because Hillie really is a happy hacker, she goes off the leg and comes back on the reins (most of the time). She also uses any foreign object as an excuse to spook and try to go home (you should try trotting her down a lane of puddles, my safe seat is impeccable now :cool:), so for now it'll be a case of using an imaginary object to turn around.

Reinmaker, thanks for the tips on holding the pressure. Sometimes I feel like I hold Hillie too short for too long but I think it's just because she isn't used to being held at all - at the moment what I do is a few minutes of what I'm calling "close" work, then I back off and walk a few circuits on a looser rein.

It's all a process of both getting her used to proper aids, and getting her used to harder work. But hopefully by October (and uni!) she'll be much better and her owner will be able to ride her out happily!

Thanks again for everybody's advice, if you have something to add please do :)