Tax Day Poll...

[WashingtonBay]

Tax Day!

Who is mailing today? We are. We have to pay so we don't pay early.

As some know, I'm a fan of eliminating withholding so people have to write checks. Make people acutely aware of how much they are paying. I think withholding makes taxes invisible, and makes tax returns seem like money back, not money paid in.

How many here have to pay more (federal taxes) on tax day, and how many get refunds?

How does state income tax play in to your perception, for those who have state income tax? In WA we have no state income tax, just sales and property tax. And while the sales tax does make us aware of tax rates at every sale, particularly the big ticket items, property tax for those with a mortgage is often invisible because it's included in our mortgage. I understand why the banks do this, it would not be good for them to lose a house over taxes, it does serve to make it an invisible tax.

So... without getting too personal with my question... how many get money back from tax returns, and how many have to pay?

[Equine_Woman]

I mailed a long time ago (or rather e-filed). I barely got anything back so I guess it was a successful year of not loaning the gov my money. . .

[TLC97]

We mailed ours last week. Husband makes estimated quarterlies, that way we don't get penalty if we owe. We had to pay in BIG this year, huge OUCH!!!

[natisha]

I get a refund. Not wise I know but I've had to pay in the past when they didn't take enough out & I was hit with a payment at the worst possible time. That was enough to put a scare in me.
I wish too that we had to write checks for taxes.

[JackieB]

We got a refund, but we try to estimate during the year so that it comes out as close to even as possible. We're both self-employed, so we pay quarterly (writing checks ourselves - the way you like).

The state taxes in Michigan are 4.35%. The state tax burden doesn't seem too great to us. Our tax preparer helps us with some deductions.

However, I keep track of all of our expenses each year in an Excel spreadsheet. When I combine taxes into a single category of state and federal income, property, and then estimate the sales tax on purchases, IT's A LOT. By far the biggest category.

My best childhood friend is very conservative when it comes to the tax burden. We were talking about the fiscal crisis in the US the other day, specifically entitlements. I mentioned that my 89 year-old dad gets a battery of tests each year on his slow-growing prostate cancer when there's just no way that it's going to affect his longevity anymore. I think we'd be better of to just deal with symptoms as they arise at that age.

Both my friend and my wife challenged me on that, saying that I didn't have a way of knowing whether it would affect his longevity or not. They also said they feel strongly that seniors should get all the healthcare they need and we should cut elsewhere. I said OK, but the taxes the next generation will be paying for that level of care for us boomers (4 times as many seniors) will be nothing like we pay now.

So there we have it. It always comes down to - We need to cut, but not where I want to see us spend. I am not criticizing my friends. I think it's just an example of how incredibly difficult it is to rein in spending that is entrenched like that. People just don't like to give up money. :)

[WashingtonBay]

We got a refund, but we try to estimate during the year so that it comes out as close to even as possible. We're both self-employed, so we pay quarterly (writing checks ourselves - the way you like).

It is the way I'd like, though I admit, we've not exactly been doing it that way, any more. I'm self-employed too, no withholding, and we were paying estimates too, for me. Only problem was, far too many quarters, we'd come up with reasons to not pay it - legitimate ones - money's tight - it's not like we were blowing it on big vacations, but we'd end up with a big bill due at the end. Sometimes a penalty - though, IMHO, the penalties for not paying on time are less than any kind of finance charges, so aren't a major consideration, IMHO.

But we didn't like the big bill at the end, so over the last couple of years we've just bumped hubby's withholding up to cover it, close as we can. At least get it to where the amount due will usually be in the hundreds, not thousands. That system couldn't exactly cover everything this year, with a big income boost from cashing out some real estate, even with the big deduction from mortgage interest on the new place.


The state taxes in Michigan are 4.35%. The state tax burden doesn't seem too great to us. Our tax preparer helps us with some deductions.

However, I keep track of all of our expenses each year in an Excel spreadsheet. When I combine taxes into a single category of state and federal income, property, and then estimate the sales tax on purchases, IT's A LOT. By far the biggest category. Sales tax is high here - ~8%... And my dad who is a CPA says it's regressive and a three-tiered tax system (income, sales and property) would actually be more fair, I still really gringe at the idea and discussion of a state income tax. I don't want it.

My best childhood friend is very conservative when it comes to the tax burden. We were talking about the fiscal crisis in the US the other day, specifically entitlements. I mentioned that my 89 year-old dad gets a battery of tests each year on his slow-growing prostate cancer when there's just no way that it's going to affect his longevity anymore. I think we'd be better of to just deal with symptoms as they arise at that age.

Both my friend and my wife challenged me on that, saying that I didn't have a way of knowing whether it would affect his longevity or not. They also said they feel strongly that seniors should get all the healthcare they need and we should cut elsewhere. I said OK, but the taxes the next generation will be paying for that level of care for us boomers (4 times as many seniors) will be nothing like we pay now.
Interesting - the only imponderable is how your dad feels about the annual tests... he does have a choice too, and I guess I'd like him to have the option. It shouldn't be up to us. But it should feel like an option with a price he can measure against the benefit. It'd be nice, if he were making the decision and his doctor said "you know... you don't have to worry about this every year... just go have fun and maybe we'll test later if you want, or if you have symptoms that are worrisome." That's what would happen if he were self-paying and the cost mattered. What I think may happen is, instead, the doctors say "It's covered, you might as well do it". My dentist has even tried to pull that with me. That I could be covered for cleanings every three months instead of six... so would I like to come in every three? No - I wouldn't!

I think fraud and overcharging is a HUGE factor in Medicare cost - more than regular insurance companies, because those approving at the other end... it's not their money either.

I don't like all these companies on TV that say they'll direct bill your insurance... or medicare, and you don't even have to see the bill. Danger danger! That's a warning sign to me.

[Vegashorselady]

I e-filed last week and set up an automatic payment through my checking account for today.
I owe quite a bit more this year than I have in past years. I'm going to request that a bit more be withheld by my employer so I'm not hit with such a big payment all at once next year. I'm well aware of how much of my money goes to taxes each month, I cringe every payday when I compare the gross to the net on my pay stub. :doh: Thankfully, I don't have state taxes due as well.

[outriding01]

I e-filed a while ago and got my refund in March. I usually get a decent sized refund since I've only ever worked part time jobs and never been on full time employment for any length of time. This year I came out just about even. My parents have always paid my rent in college (as long as I keep my scholarships and grades up ;)) but this past year we changed it so that they put me on the payroll for our business and cut me a regular paycheck which added up to the cost of my rent. So that, combined with my summer employment and part time jobs put me over to get any sort of substantial refund.

[magayle]

we get a fed refund but pay state tax - almost a wash...i was shocked at the difference between IL and WI tax...IT SUCKS!!! don't retire to Wisconsin

[mare]

I paid in a lot over the year and got a little back. I'm acutely aware of my tax rate, so the little dab I get back doesn't seem anything like a savings, bonus, or gift.

[gabhainn]

I just about have a system perfected where I break just about perfectly even, get within plus or minus a couple hundred bucks. This year I came out on the positive side. I just have a real serious problem with giving the government a 0 interest loan.....Kevin

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

This is my worst tax year... ever. Both in terms of the total taxes paid, and the tidy check I got to send in to pay the final amount. Ouch.

Now... I had an extraordinary item last year that won't be happening again, at least not that way. So this was a somewhat unique year, and completely expected. It's rude to mention real numbers, I know. But still... I wish I could just so I could properly express the shock value. It's just obscene. It's been only a very few years ago that I was making less... than I paid this year in taxes.

To think that all that money is now just swirling down into Obama's toilet of vomitous spending... is more than I can really deal with. It's unfair really. Things flushed down a toilet do more good than things flushed into DC.

[WashingtonBay]

I'm sorry for my part in it.

It does occur to me that we were both paying tax on the same money. They double-dipped on us, didn't they?

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I'm sorry for my part in it.

It does occur to me that we were both paying tax on the same money. They double-dipped on us, didn't they?

No blame on you... that was part of the deal and how I chose to resolve it. The big problem is that those options, that I'd been holding onto for more than ten years, were now all considered regular income, instead of a long-term capital gain (which they, in fact, really were).

Yes... they did double-dip us on the same money. That-- is just pouring salt in the wound.

Lots of things get double-dipped. Corporate income is taxed, and then dividends are paid out of those already-taxed earnings, and are taxed again at the stockholder level. It's simply wrong.

[WashingtonBay]

were now all considered regular income, instead of a long-term capital gain (which they, in fact, really were).

Why is that?

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Why is that?

Because of the thoughtless crap that Congress did in the wake of Enron and Worldcom and all that mess... and then again after the 06 mess with Goldman Sachs and AIG... and the whole concept of "stock options" suddenly gave them a sour taste and Congress decided to effectively do away with the ~whole concept~ of stock options.

In my case, these were options that I got in 2001. Long before any of this frap. suddenly though, instead of being LT cap gains on the SALE of the stock, they became regular income upon EXERCISE of the options (which just means that I finally bought the stock at the strike price I was granted) whether I sold them or not. NEVERMIND that the transaction COST me money and didn't result in a dime of profit yet. I would've had to pay the tax anyway. It totally makes an abortion of the idea of stock options. So... It only made sense to go ahead and exercise and sell the shares on the same day.

I have another group of options that are older... those managed to be grandfathered in such that I excercised them last year too... but the tax isn't due until I sell the shares... and those will (so far) be a LT cap gain. With my luck, His Supreme Highness, Emperor Obama will do away with capital gains again... and so I'll be just as screwed on those too.

So much for holding on to something for retirement.

We really have to get away from letting socialists run our government. Stock options were actually an awesome tool for companies to both a.) reward employees and b.) give employees a significant stake in the future health of the company. They were a very good thing. Now they don't exist anymore. And... for no good reason.

The only reason they're gone is greed. Not the greed of capitalists, but the greed of collectivists and socialists that want more, and more, and more of what productive people create. Only to waste it. The looters take... and they pour it down the drain.

THAT is true greed. Wanting what you earn yourself isn't greed. Wanting what other people earn is the worst sort of greed.

[WashingtonBay]

^ Makes my head spin. (the tax part)