Need help with downward transitions!!

[missdixie]

Does anyone have any good advice or tricks for smooth downward transitions? Dixie has such gorgeous collection and upward transitions, but her downward transitions are a fugly mess!!! Sometimes I have to half-halt her until my arms practically break off and she puts her head up and locks her neck and tries to barrel through. It's always so hideous. I ride her in a copper D-ring snaffle, and she is pretty hard mouthed but other than those downward transitions she is so good, so I don't really want to change her bit. Any suggestions?

[mare]

Changing to a different bit does not equal failure.

Otherwise, conditioning (as in operant conditioning) to changes in speed using more seat cues, may help. Slowing your seat rhythm coupled with cues from the reins, and eventually reducing the rein cues may work. It's often a slow process, but is a nice alternative for horses who aren't responsive to the bit.

[Suzi]

I am not an expert, but I ma finding on the mare I ride, who is well broke and generally obediant, will often get choppy and and short coming from a canter to a walk. But I have found Iif I stretch tall but deep into the saddle, and with barely a half halt, she will come done much smoother and I also ride thru it smoother. I only discovered this by accident and not really sure what the dynamics are of what I am doing. MAybe someone elase can analyize it better.

[Pi and Tofu]

Circles and figure-eights to teach transitions.

[Reinmaker]

I can expound later if anyone wants, but in general downward transitions fall apart because of a loss of collection and a horse falling on the front in. It is hard for a horse to pick themselves up, stay soft and slow down. Also, they don't keep their body straight and crookedness in their body leads to stiffness in the face and neck.

Most riders rely to heavily on their hands without the use of the leg. If leg is not incorporated most horses lose collection and softness. If your horse truly does achieve collection when driving forward then ask for this collection and then pick up more but keep your legs on her, and still your seat asking her to break to a trot. It will probably be choppy and stiff to start with, but set your hands and ask for that softness. Don't release just cause she trots. Release all pressure when she softens breaks at the poll, and trots smoothly.

Be aware that most horses will evade this by poking a rib one direction or the other. So in the beginning one leg(spur) may have to be stronger than the other. Make sure to keep your shoulders back and your hands out in front of you.

PS: change bits.

[missdixie]

Thanks, guys! This is great advice! If I were to try a different bit, what would you recommend? A broken pellham? I ride English pleasure/ hunt seat, and I've had her in this same d-ring since I broke her 4 years ao as a 3 year old.

[zoel_222]

Why change the bit? What's wrong with the snaffle?

[missdixie]

I meant kimberwicke, not pellham ;)

[missdixie]

She just braces against it and runs through it if she's being nasty, which is often during her heat seasons... I have considered just *trying* something a little bit stronger and see how she does.

[zoel_222]

Well to me the problem sounds like a training issue, not a bit issue. If it still continues after you work on training those issues away, then that's when I'd switch bits. JMO, though.

[Reinmaker]

She needs to change bits because she admits the horse is hardmouthed and she has been using the same bit for years. Horses learn to lay on your hands if they are allowed to. This horse has learned to lay on her hands. If she steps up to a twist she can get more accomplished, soften the horse up and then go back to the smooth if she wishes.

I agree that it is a training issue but changing bits isn't a bad thing. Bits are tools to be used to help us accomplish training. I don't understand why some people think they have to get everything done in a simple snaffle or they are somehow not doing a good job of training. I switch up bits all the time on very broke, supple, show horses. Just depends on what I am feeling and what I want to work on. Also I like to experiment with different mouth pieces in my bridle horses to see how they go and what they perform best in.

[natisha]

I think it is both a training & bit issue. Aren't the two kind of related?
If the horse is bracing & ignoring the bit, as in won't come back & soften to it then it's time for a bit with a little more 'telling' than 'asking'.
If you're using leg to drive the horse up to slow nicely & it ignores the bit one of two things will happen. The horse will get heavy on the front as it braces against your pull (setting your hands) & you end up pulling harder or the horse will speed up until you have to revert to the first thing. A little sharper bit will get the horse to give & it will resist bracing. It can then learn that your other aids are what it needs to respond to & the bit becomes back-up as more softness is achieved. I'm probably explaining this poorly.

For example: Grandie-my new horse- came wearing a slow twist & all kinds of head restricting devices which caused her to suck back. I put her in a very mild fattish baby bit so she would learn to accept contact, which she does now. But she was also starting to get a little big for her britches.
In time I will put her in a regular snaffle or whatever I feel she needs but first I need to start riding her again.

[Remali]

Circles and figure eights are a very good idea.... it makes a horse think, and helps them also slow down....

[Reinmaker]

Circles and Figure 8's may help with the slowing the horse down they may not, but they will do nothing to solve the underlying issues.

[missdixie]

Thank you for the input. I agree that it is a bit AND training issue but its hard to get any training done when she's bracing against me throwing all her weight on the forehand and plowing through. Any ideas on what a good bit might be to step it up just a little? Slow twist snaffle?

[XshadowfoxX]

ALOT of walk- stop trot- walk then trot again. Trot- walk 4 steps- trot.
It helps them get their back up and under you. Better control and better transitions =] Thats just an easy exercise my trainer has me do!

[Equine_Woman]

I have a tune up bit for when they get hard in the mouth. . . I slip the twisted wire snaffle or a 1/4 inch snaffle on for a few rides, then go back to my happy bit. . .it's amazing how much more supple they are after a few rides in a bit with more bite. . . just take it easy with your hands until you see how she responds!

[natisha]

Thank you for the input. I agree that it is a bit AND training issue but its hard to get any training done when she's bracing against me throwing all her weight on the forehand and plowing through. Any ideas on what a good bit might be to step it up just a little? Slow twist snaffle?Waterfords are good for bracey horses.

[missdixie]

Thanks guys, I ordered a new bit for a little tune up, and I have been doing nothing but transitions transitions transitions with her to try and supple her up. She is so heavy on the forehand too, I really need to get her to sit down and work from her haunches, but she just fights me on it! Hopefully all this transition work and a new bit can get her to focus more on her body and less on fighting for control.