Dolly with stool problem again

[farmers_wife]

Well I am at it again with Dolly stools again. I am at lost on what to do. I got Dolly in Feb of 07. Her stools were good. In Nov of 07 her stools were loose, watery and she was very watery gas. Down her leg, frozen tail and sore bottom. Went on all winter long with me washing her bottom. Well in July 08 I put her on yeast culture and her stools got 100% better. I have tried everything from probitics to feed.
This is what I thought it was last year. Hay, oats, straw, bread, treats.
I had the vet out last year and did blood work on her and all was good. Did a stool sample and had some tapeworms, ( I worm her regular).
But starting in oct her stools got loose again. I have not changed anything all summer and the yeast was working.
I was told that she was not keeping enough live bacteria in her, so that is why she was on the yeast.
I am at lost what to do. Her stools are watery and loose and she is very gassy. SWNS was here and saw it. Her legs are awful and her hair is off her butt.
I cant for the life of me think of what it could be.
Anyone have any suggestions?

[lovesfortune]

Sorry, I have no suggestions, but I know you have been stressed with dealing with this for a while now. I hope someone has some other ideas that you can try. Did your vet say anything this time around?

[farmers_wife]

I have not talked to my vet. Last year all she said was she needs to be on probiotics for the rest of her life. I think I am going to call the U of M on monday and see if I cant get some answeres. Yes I have been deal with this for a while and it is getting old. I just dont want her to be in any pain or have a sore bottom. I been washing it and putting ointment on it.

[Miracle Whip]

Diachatamaceous earth. It is supposed to be a natural wormer. I don't think it will hurt the live culture or whatever and it might clean her out. You said something about tapeworms, have you ever done a fecal count to see just how wormy she really is.

Is it because she is back on hay again? She was ok over the summer? Any walnuts around? Could the other forum member you mentioned board Dolly for a while just to see if she gets better? Then you would at least know if it was something in her living environment.

I am grasping at straws mostly. Weeds in pasture, etc.

[farmers_wife]

Dolly is on a dry lot so she is fed hay all year long. No walnut trees and I have not put straw in her area for bedding this year. Everything I did last year I am not doing this year.

[Ryle]

What exactly is she eating? Did you make any changes to food, water, situation prior to the loose stools starting again?

[medicine hat]

where did the hay come from? different buyer, different cutting? could the farmer have used some sort of pesticide she is allergic to?
since it starts at the same time of year maybe it is an allergic reaction to a plant, or something in the air. are the farmers around there spraying or fertilizing their fields?
just some points to consider....

[Nudge_gurl58]

Have you gone on hacks to any areas where you haven't all summer? Let her eat anything there maybe?
Yeah I'm pretty much grasping at straws too.
Sometimes it can come loose when their stressed, but I've never heard of it that much...
Good luck!

[vicklynn]

Sounds like a different vet check is needed. Do you tape worm her regularly? I do once a yr, and a vet can do, if needed, a stool sample.

[farmers_wife]

We grow our own hay. Last year the hay was 1st crop 2yr old. This year 2nd crop and it is the same hay she has been on all summer. We do spray for aphids. This summer her stools were loose and I put her on yeast culture and they were good. Now when winter hit they are not good.
I do tape worm her regular now. I just did in aug.
I made no changes in her food. She is on the same food for a long time. Progressive feed, supplument, and hay. Last year she was on oats, and hay.
I have done a lot of research and come up with nothing.
I could do a stool sample. I know she can get worms but I clean my dry paddock everyday. I am out there in the winter raking it and scooping up the mess. People think I am crazy raking in the winter. But there is hardly any poo on the ground.

There is no plants in the paddock. I have no straw in their shed.
But keep coming up with suggestions.
I am going to try to get some straight grass hay. Our hay is a mix of alfalfa. But SWMS looked at it and said it was not much alfalfa in it.

[Joey A]

I'd say it's some sort of seasonal plants, acorns are notorious for giving horses the squirts. Try dropping the sugar and/or protien content in her feed. Either/or can cause scours. Tractor Supply now sells a "low sugar/non-grain" feed, they don't advertize NSC's or anything, but my pony likes it. (he's never been diagnosed with anything like IR or EPSM, and has never tied up so I'm not too worried, I used to feed him Strategy.)

I have some that respond really well to a mineral supplement like the Blue Bonnet Techmaster. (primarily a calcium supp)

[Ryle]

In a picked dry lot, worms (including tapeworms which don't generally cause diarrhea) aren't going to be a big risk though they can still be present. My concern would be that it's something she is picking up if there are leaves, etc in the paddock. Try putting her on a probiotic daily and see how it goes.

[Peggy Sue]

I'd say it's some sort of seasonal plants, acorns are notorious for giving horses the squirts. Try dropping the sugar and/or protien content in her feed. Either/or can cause scours. Tractor Supply now sells a "low sugar/non-grain" feed, they don't advertize NSC's or anything, but my pony likes it. (he's never been diagnosed with anything like IR or EPSM, and has never tied up so I'm not too worried, I used to feed him Strategy.)

I have some that respond really well to a mineral supplement like the Blue Bonnet Techmaster. (primarily a calcium supp)

she is already low sugar starch feed...

FW look for a probio supplement did wonders for the pony I got back two years ago taht was having the same problem... you could also look into a digestive enemzyme(sp) that is said to help as well

also bannana peels aer suppose to help as well although I have never tried them .

[shewasmyshadow]

Does anyone think it could be ulcers? Dolly is a mare that has OBVIOUSLY had a few foals in her day(way before Farmers had her). I was thinking that could have done something to her. Heck, I have problems after one kid, I can't imagine what this mare is feeling. Anyone think this could affect her?

[Ryle]

It's possible. But I would be sure to look over what she is eating in her paddock first since it's been a rather seasonal thing.

[shewasmyshadow]

I was over there on Saturday and I hunted around and there's NOTHING around. The whole pasture is bare. After I looked around the pasture Farmers and I hunted through a few flakes of hay. There's really nothing in that. We talked about it getting worse with worming, heat cycles, etc and it's a pretty consistent symptom.

[Ryle]

Does it get worse with deworming or with heat cycles? If it does with deworming, what product are you using when you notice it?

[shewasmyshadow]

I'm sorry what I meant was that it didn't get worse with either of those things (heat cycle/worming). I think it's probably the bacteria balance being thrown off everyone once in awhile, but by what? If it's not the hay, not the heat cycle and not the worming, then what? Could temperature changes do that? Or activity level? Though I don't think she's been worked much this year...

I should add that she's on a yeast culture for regulating the bacteria...

[Beausgirl]

Farmer's wife - I too have a "problem" with - not loose stools per say, but, watery gas! (Good description!) on two of my horses. My old gelding - he's 24 - 25 (?) - he's had the problem for a couple of years , but it seems to be consistant with when he's on hay and/or very dry grass. My youngest gelding though, Beau, has started with the same thing this fall. Has been "watery" for about 1 month now. The stool is "formed" but it is fairly wet. Wetter than I would call "normal". I just started feeding hay this past week, but he started with the discharge before that. He's fine in every other respect, and so is the old boy. I have just found out that a friend of mine - one of her geldings, also get's a watery anal-discharge when he is on hay. When on grass, he's fine, as are my geldings. I have tried extra de-worming, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I have switched from grain for feeding their supplments to feeding soaked beet pulp - no change. I have mentioned it to one vet, who simply shrugged her shoulders and suggested deworming....:doh: So - although I can't give you a solution, I can hopefully make you feel better to know - you are NOT alone with this problem. But if you find an answer - I'd love to know what it is!

[Peggy Sue]

I keep thinking about this and thinking to add probios and digestive eneymzes to her diet...

[farmers_wife]

Dolly stools are doing a little bit better. It seems to come and go. I have increased her yeast culture. And I have been giving the horses loose mineral and we think maybe Dolly is eating it all. So I took out the mineral and I will go up to each horse and offer them some for now.
Other wise I have not been doing anyting different. I did change to a different progressive. I will try this and see.
I was thinking about that also Peggy Sue but we are going to try this first.
Thanks for all the help and advise.

[Peggy Sue]

which progressive is she on and which did you change her too??

[farmers_wife]

I switched her to this. Here is the pic and info. It should help with her weight also. Sorry so big. how do I reduce the size of picture.
ProAdd™ Ultimate Supplement

http://www.prognutrition.com/images/PNProducts/ProAdd_bag.jpghttp://www.prognutrition.com/img/spacer.gifPACKAGING: 25 LB Poly Bag

ProAdd™ Ultimate Supplement is a concentrated supplement containing sources of amino acids, vitamins, minerals, trace minerals and other essential nutrients. These nutrients are essential for optimum growth, development, reproduction and performance. ProAdd Ultimate should be fed to horses eating grass or mixed hay.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein min.55.0%Lysine, min.4.6% Crude Fat, min.3.5%Crude Fiber, min.2.0% Calcium, min.5.5%max. 6.5% Phosphorus, min.2.5% Copper, min.380 ppm Zinc, min.870 ppm Selenium, min.3 ppm Vitamin A, min.44,000 IU/lb Vitamin D, min.4,400 IU/lb Vitamin E, min.700 IU/lb Lbs/P.N.unit min.1/2 Advantages


Complete nutrition in one supplement - hair, weight, topline, hoof, joints and more
Ultra concentrated formula so you feed less
Visual results in less than 30 days
Great Value - can be fed with no additional grain to easy keepers and overweight horses
Ideal for horses with special needs - cushings, insulin resistance and laminitis
Contains less than 7% Nonstructural carbohydrates
Formulated to help prevent nutritionally induced developmental growth problems
Balanced Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids for enhanced hair coat and over-all appearance
Horses will look, feel, and perform their best
ProAdd™ Ultimate Supplement Contains


The highest quality sources of proteins and amino acids with added lysine, methionine, tryptophan and threonine for optimum weight and muscle development
A blend of vegetable oils, including flax, for enhanced hair-coat condition
Yeast culture for improvement in gut function and enhanced absorption
Chelated trace minerals for increased mineral absorption
Nutrients for improved immune function and metabolism

[Peggy Sue]

that is suppose to be really GOOD stuff but I dont' anybody who has used it at this point ... keep us updated!!!

[farmers_wife]

I will keep you updated. So far her stools are back to normal. I hope it is good feed. It cost me enough. :)

[Peggy Sue]

if I send you my address will you send me the ingredient part of the bag when you can ?? I would LOVE to have it and add to my collection of "tags"

[moka]

Could it be the water temperature or less water consumption during the colder months? I don't know.

[Mica&Me]

I'm having the same problem with Mica this winter. Check with your Vet first but I had mine out and he put Mica on 10 benadryl in the a.m. and 10 in the p.m. (25 milligram each) for 14 days. WalMart or Costco brand are cheap. These are "people" benadryl. It worked. But after she'd been off them for 4 days she was back to watery manure, water down legs, etc.

So, she is back on 10 pills in the a.m., 10 in the p.m. for 7 days.
Then 9 in the a.m., 9 in the p.m. for 7 days.
I am to keep lowering the dosage each 7 days by one pill in the a.m. and p.m. to a dosage that works.

In general horses in our area are having problems this winter with the squirts - one theory is farmers were using more fertilizer on their hay crops this year and it is affecting horses - esp. older ones. No one around here knows for sure.

Sore butt/haunches - she's sore big time. Vet recommended a spray called Shiney Hiney (works great!!) to clean her- feed store had it. Also either Nolvasan shampoo which contains chlorhexidine, or an anti-fungal product for horses with chlorhexidine- both also feed store. Mouth wash like Listerine and others also contains chlorhexidine - much cheaper but less chlorhexidine. I also spray the chlorhexidine on the back leg straps on her blanket since they rub on her legs.

Good luck! I hope you find something that works. I know what you mean - it's the biggest pain in the butt (no pun intended:)) ever.

Let me know if you have time specifically what the yeast culture is that you are using. I'd like to try it. Mica hates yogurt - tried that.

[farmers_wife]

if I send you my address will you send me the ingredient part of the bag when you can ?? I would LOVE to have it and add to my collection of "tags"

Yes, Just PM me and I will mail it too you.

[farmers_wife]

I'm having the same problem with Mica this winter. Check with your Vet first but I had mine out and he put Mica on 10 benadryl in the a.m. and 10 in the p.m. (25 milligram each) for 14 days. WalMart or Costco brand are cheap. These are "people" benadryl. It worked. But after she'd been off them for 4 days she was back to watery manure, water down legs, etc.

So, she is back on 10 pills in the a.m., 10 in the p.m. for 7 days.
Then 9 in the a.m., 9 in the p.m. for 7 days.
I am to keep lowering the dosage each 7 days by one pill in the a.m. and p.m. to a dosage that works.

In general horses in our area are having problems this winter with the squirts - one theory is farmers were using more fertilizer on their hay crops this year and it is affecting horses - esp. older ones. No one around here knows for sure.

Sore butt/haunches - she's sore big time. Vet recommended a spray called Shiney Hiney (works great!!) to clean her- feed store had it. Also either Nolvasan shampoo which contains chlorhexidine, or an anti-fungal product for horses with chlorhexidine- both also feed store. Mouth wash like Listerine and others also contains chlorhexidine - much cheaper but less chlorhexidine. I also spray the chlorhexidine on the back leg straps on her blanket since they rub on her legs.

Good luck! I hope you find something that works. I know what you mean - it's the biggest pain in the butt (no pun intended:)) ever.

Let me know if you have time specifically what the yeast culture is that you are using. I'd like to try it. Mica hates yogurt - tried that.

The yeast culture is called Diamond V yeast culture. It is a dry powder and I wet it down and put into her food. Dolly loves it. But she loves everything. I think my friend got it at the vet. here is a web site. http://www.diamondv.com/species/equine/equine.htm
It really has helped dolly. Her stools are back to normal. NOt sure if it is the weather or what. But when I first put her on the yeast it really helped. It is worth a try and I only paid about 15.00 for a bag and I have had the bag since July/aug.

[Gypsy Rose]

Diamond V yeast is supposed to be really good stuff- it's actually a prebiotic.

http://www.diamondv.com/species/equine/equine_different.htm

[shewasmyshadow]

Diamond V yeast is supposed to be really good stuff- it's actually a prebiotic.

http://www.diamondv.com/species/equine/equine_different.htm

That is what she's already feeding.

Edit: Wait were you suggesting it or commending her on using it...or maybe you double posted.:huh:

[Beausgirl]

I have an update on the "watery gas" that two of my three geldings were experiencing. I talked to my feed store gal (I actually went in to ask her specifically about probiotics) and she suggested that I just top dress their feed with a little calfmana. Now - I know there's a few folks who don't like the calfmana for horses, but I'm actually having some luck with it. I only sprinkle about.... I don't know - a quarter or half a cup on top of their feed at night , and they are all doing well now. I checked butts last night, and there's virtually no crusty's - no sign that thye've been squirting! (Oh this is a gross conversation!) Anyway - it's another option, may be a little less expensive and easier to get than some of the other supplements out there. I'm not sure of the analysis - but I can get it and provide it for anyone who may be interested.