Dobes, GSD's and Personal Protection Dogs.

[Kaitlyn]

Ok this is kinda an all in one type of thread lol.

Who on the forum has Dobes? I've absolutely fallen in love with them and would like to know about them from person owners.

Same with German Shepherds please!

And also, I was looking up ex K-9 police dogs and I guess for personal use they are called PPD or Personal protection dogs, does anyone have one of those? The common breeds for them of course are Dobes, Rotts, GSD's and recently I've seen Dogo Argentinos and..shoot that's all I remember right now. They are pricey, but they are like advanced security systems with an attack button. My dad is interested in me getting one for when I travel on my own and live on my own, etc. I've already unfortunately had an incident where one of these dogs would have been beneficial. Just looking for some general opinions/thoughts/etc.

[Pi and Tofu]

I absolutely love dobies; while I don't have one now, I have had some in the past and am thinking about another when the time comes. Ours were good watch dogs, but not so much personal protection dogs; they looked big and bad, barked big and bad, but then were pretty wiggly and friendly. I don't know what they would have done to a complete stranger, but I always let them know it was me when walking across the field at night-they would growl like they meant it until they knew who it was. I have never had one in an apartment and since they are pretty high energy, do not know how well they would do in that situation. Pretty healthy dogs, some skin conditions, not long-lived. Sweet and loving, and easy to take care of (baths were only a couple of minutes).

[Kaitlyn]

That's pretty much what I've heard, except the short lived thing would kill me. I just recently saw a white dobe and I now want one terribly! lol. I've also heard/read they do alright in apartments as long as sufficiently exercised, but I hope that I'd be able to afford a house with a fenced in yard for them to go in and out as they pleased.

[Pi and Tofu]

I preferred the blacks to the reds, never saw a white, didn't like the blues too much (high strung-but only have met 2). Personally, I just can't buy, I have to use a rescue or the humane society, but if you use a breeder, find one that is breeding for longevity. My friend had his in a house with a small yard, and they seemed to do well-his were all good guard dogs come to think about it. Good luck! Such sweet dogs.

[AUEquine]

I just love the dobies, the rotts, and all the others, but I have a complete mental aversion and hatred of all german shepards. Unfortunatly I don't think it's one I'll ever get over. I've had very few bad encounters with animals but of the few most of them were with German Shepards.
The first was when I was walking home from a friends house one day, and the guy who lived a few doors down from us had let his dog out loose in the front yard. I was on the sidewalk and not in his yard, but apparently he still thought that was his property and started chasing me. He scratched the heck out of the back of my leg, and got one little nip in on my ankle. Physically I would survive, but mentaly I was scared.
The second came just a few years later. At the same house apparently the people behind us got a german shepard. He was always mean and scared me because he would bark so aggressivly at our back fence while I played. And one night we came home from eating at my grandparents house to find that he had dug a hole under the fence and killed our dog. Sweet Clancy was a wonderful English Setter, and I will always miss him.
The the third incident came a few years back while I was in college. My parents had my beagle out in the yard back home while they were doing yard work. This was customary for everyone in the subdivision, and all the dogs got along great. Well my Jasper was accross the street playing with the neighbors little froo froo dog. Apparently they also owned a German Shepard who had had heart worm treatment and now lived in their basement. Well he must have gotten territorial or something, and he came out and attacked my beagle. It was pretty bad, but after alot of money and alot of time he recovered. The stupid neighbors never bothered to pay for any of the vet bills of even inquire as to how my dog was doing.

So needless to say I have a bit of an aversion to German Shepards. I know their not all bad, but I'll never own one and I never trust one.

[oursarge]

My Aunt & Uncle had both German Shepherds and Dobermans. Theirs were trained as attack dogs. Major Scary dogs. To them they were like big babies but for others they would act protective of the family and as much as I love dogs I didn't want to be near them. They scared me because they were always on the alert I felt like one wrong move and they'd be after me. They sent them to some place to be trained, I was never comfortable with them. Their neighbors had dobermans too and theirs were nuts, one had my aunt up against the car one night and wouldn't let her move. The dogs liked my uncle and listend to him so he was able to call the dog off. It didn't hurt her it just had her pinned. I never liked visiting them because you never knew when the neighbor's dogs would be around. They mostly kept them penned but they would let them out to run at night. They would kill small animals, I really didn't like those dogs.

When my cousin left home she got a Doberman and that dog was a big baby, so gentle. She'd never hurt anyone but the mixed breed Collie she had was the one people had to watch. I've met so many sweet Dobermans. Boarders at the stable have a real cute, real gentle Doberman, he is from a rescue. He looks vicious but he's so nice. They have a little Maltese mix and that one rules the roost! Another of my cousins has 2 and they are both gentle dogs.

German Shepherds are my big breed of choice. I have always loved that breed but have never had one. The stable had 3. The mother dog was like Rin Tin Tin, so smart, you could tell her which horse to get and she'd get it. She didn't like my horse, my horse didn't like her. When I was working with my horse she'd never leave my side where normally she never left her "mother's" side, she didn't trust my horse I guess because she was always there. I used to sit on the arena floor with her and pet her or throw her soda bottle for her, we'd have a great time. The last day I was with her I was rinsing my horse off with the hose and she was chasing the water from it. It was so cute. She never went in the road but one night she did for some reason and that night she got killed. A horrible time and I still miss her, waiting for her to come running when I walk in the barn. I think the only time she would think about hurting anyone would be if they went after someone she loved. She was the first German Shepherd that my husband was comfortable with. He's scared of them and why we can't have one. They have 2 of her babies. They are nice dogs but are not trained like she was. They are almost 3 yrs old and are quite hyper but they are real good watch dogs. Anyone who would be nutty enough to walk in that barn with them loose and nobody around would deserve what they got. There is one boarder that one dog does not like at all, it's scary the way she acts with this person. It makes me wonder about the person? I'm fine with them and they are fine with me since I've known them since they were babies and I take care of them when the gang goes away, I think they think of me as the lady with the doggy cookies and food.

My husband has a friend who was in the K-9 unit, I asked him what they do with the dogs when they are done working and he said that the officer will take them and if that person can't take the dog then they go with another officer. He said they never adopt them out to the public. There was a dog demonstration at the local school last month and there was a K-9 guy there showing how the dog works. Really scary when he's in attack mode! He also said they don't adopt theirs out to the general public. I was thinking that would be a good way to get a well trained dog since I'm not a great dog trainer but he said that they don't adopt theirs out. Maybe some places do though. That dog was so smart.

I think either breed as long as they are well trained would be nice to have. I am partial to the German Shepherds but I'll never be able to have one because my man doesn't want one. I would never send one to attack dog school or what ever my Aunt & Uncle did, those dogs just seemed to be like Ticking Time Bombs but all the others who were just trained as family dogs are very loving. They've all been well socialized too.

[Tatesgram]

I love German Shepards and Rotts, have had both and they were very loving companions. Would go with me everywhere. The most protective dogs I every had were a little Border Collie mix and a little poodle mix. Didn't like people that raised their voices around me. :p

I've found that dogs that are attached to one or two owners will be protective in the right (or wrong) circumstances, all depends on the dog you want and how you raise it.

I do have a fear of bringing a grown or mature dog into my home around my grandkids. I would have to be assured they were safe around kids. :)

[starkitten]

I have a rottie :) Got her when I was 19 and I'm now 31 ;) She is a very very friendly dog - as long as I invite you into my space. Usually her size and bark are enough to get people to back off, but one guy did push it (ex boyfriend came at me threatenly) and she didn't hestitate - had him pinned to the ground in no time - she is my best buddy :)

[WashingtonBay]

I know a trainer who breeds, trains, shows, and sells Schutzhund and Police dogs. They're awesome.

Of course, if you're of legal age and disposition, I think a handgun is a much more useful self defense tool, but I would not shake a stick at one of these dogs either. His trained dogs are about $15,000.

If you do get a young dog or a pup, or I would suppose even an older dog, look up and join a local Schutzhund club. They'll help you with training, to be sure you do things right and in the right order, and help keep a finished dog sharp and on the right track.

[Kaitlyn]

Thanks for the responses!

WB thanks for the tip about joining. I've found level 3 dogs for 5,500. I'm not of legal age to have a handgun, unfortunately, and won't for another 4 or so years. I wish I would have found these dogs a few years ago, would have been helpful, but I still think they would be a good investment, even with a handgun. The dog can be faster than the gun in some cases.

AU I'm very surprised you've had such bad experiences with GSD's. I've heard nothing but good, but every breed has it's downfalls and you got unlucky with that. :(

Oursarge, I don't know who trained them and I suppose it's not important, just that the training is supposed to focus on being a protection dog when needed and a family dog when they aren't needed. That's why I find he police dogs so fascinating because they are family dogs, but then they can switch into attack mode in a matter of seconds, and that's what I would look for, personally. I don't want a dog I've paid good money for, to be faulty. I understand they are animals but they are extremely intelligent creatures and can tell the difference, it's the training that's most important, which I suppose is another 'you get what you pay for.'

[WashingtonBay]

The type and quality of training they receive is vital. IMHO, you shouldn't have a Schutzhund III dog unless you're a Schutzhund III handler.

It's vital that the dog not have an ounce of real aggression, it has to be sport. The good ones bite hard without an ounce of malice. They do their bite work on other members of the club and then can sit around in a group as friends. To the dog, it's a game, it's not personal, and that's where the tricky part lies. In the wrong hands, fear and excitement can make them more dangerous than a loaded gun, because a gun is rendered harmless the moment you set it down. The dog is always on.

There is a big difference between a territorial "guard dog" with natural protective instincts and a "personal protection dog" where those instincts are suppressed and replaced by training. A guard dog is a loose cannon, a PPD is a tool.

[HoustonFarrier]

Just get yourself a nice, well-bred Mastiff male. No one...and I mean NO ONE messes with you when you have 200+ lbs of teeth and head staring back.

Steve

[Kaitlyn]

LOL there's a thought, HF.

What's your food bill like for one of those?

[HoustonFarrier]

What's your food bill like for one of those?
High;)

Steve

[alittleoffkey]

My brother's girlfriend's family has a retired police dog. He's a GSD and I absolutely adore him.

Personally, I think nearly any dog will protect its family... then again you don't know until it's important. If Lucky (my twenty pound terror) doesn't know someone, he'll stand across the room and growl or observe until I tell him the person is okay. My grandparents' acquired a dog named Happy who was half Chow when I was little, my cousins and I could crawl all over the poor guy and he could care less - but a stranger walked up into the yard once and he chased them off snarling at their heels.

Even our old chocolate lab nearly attacked my Dad once when I was playing with him and Dad came around the corner of the house wearing a hat - the dog knocked me over leaping at him! And he loved any human! Dad took his hat off and talked fast - and everything was fine again.

I don't know what kind of situation you were in, but if it was in your house small dogs are a larger deterrant than large dogs. Large dogs are a big target and easy to shoot - small dogs, not so much. Large dogs have a bark and a bite - but small/medium-small dogs will bite multiple times and usually a lot more savagely (unless the big dog was trained to attack).

My grandparents had a dobie when I was younger and he was an absolute doll. He lived to be 21 - he was 7 or 8 when I was born and seriously protective. He didn't like strangers on his property - but he accepted them if he was told to. And he remembered absolutely everyone he was introduced to. :) A neighbor years ago had one, and the dog attacked his owner - it's important to know who you're buying the dog from. Mental instability is something to be wary of, particularly in purebreds.

If you do go for a certain breed, do find a breeder and/or trainer in the area through a well-known vet (so you know they're credible) that'll help you make your decision, and do hook up with a group that knows the dogs (maybe they can point you to someone who can provide a good dog) and be certain you know all of their quirks before you acquire one. :)

[Kaitlyn]

Thanks, ALOK!

I have a feeling, when I make more money lol, I'll actually buy a dog from a breeder and do all of that and rescue, there's a nice dobe rescue around here. I feel bad not rescuing, but some breeders deserve the money for the quality they produce. Ad in checking elbows, hips, genetic testing, etc. That I appreciate.

[Equine_Woman]

Just get yourself a nice, well-bred Mastiff male. No one...and I mean NO ONE messes with you when you have 200+ lbs of teeth and head staring back.

Steve

I'll back that up!! Our Mastiff female is a big girl and no one messes with us. She's protective, not agressive, just protective!! Her bark is loud and I'm pretty sure she'd follow up if she needed too. She places herself between the family and any stranger that comes to the door. As soon as I greet them she's back on the couch snoozing. They read your body language very well. When she was younger someone drove up to our house (parked in my front yard!) and came pounding on the front door. I freaked a bit, my husband went for his gun but I opened the door and Piper was there with her face on. She didn't back off until the man had driven off.

I also have a mutt that I saved back in college that I believe saved my life once. She's a chow cross and EXTREMELY loyal to me. One day a man was following us to our car and he kinda ran at me and I turned just as Sable (on lead) turned and jumped at the man snarling. He put his hands up and backed off. Scared me to death and I have no idea what would have happened without her. Sable and Piper get turned out to do a perimeter check when I feed the horses every night. I get spooked in the dark sometimes and it makes me feel better knowing those two are sitting there watching me.

My Dad owns a GS PPD because he worried too much about my step-mom and family at home alone while he was at work. (He told her she was either taking a gun class or getting a protection dog. . .she hates guns so she chose the dog) . . She's agressive, but not overly protective. The bought her as a puppy and then sent her back for training when she matured. She never took to the protection side. They recommend she be bred to bring out that side of her. That was after they spent 2000 just on training. That spent around that much for her in the first place. Now she is just a neurotic part of the family that you have to watch around strangers.

[ownedby7horses]

I have had a few GSD's. In my experience, they didn't need extra training. They just knew if something wasn't right & didn't hesitate for a second to attack if they felt it warranted. The GSD I have now is the biggest suck. I think if someone threatened me, I'd be on my own. She'd run & hide under the nearest thing she could fit under.

The last shepherd I had here in town though was a great guard dog. There was more than once she proved it to me. She was considered a "dangerous dog" because she never did hesitate to bite if I was in danger or if she thought I was in danger. Usually when company would come over I would lock her in our room for a while until the company had been here for a while, then I'd let her out & introduce her to them.

I would buy another GSD in a heartbeat & not think twice of it.

I have never owned a dobie, but I sure do love them. I have owned a couple rotties & they are basically the same temperment as the GSD's in my experience. My first rott would let you in the house, but damned if you were gettin out. He'd lock you in there and if you tried to get out, he'd eat you. I think he was trained to do that though. Worked for me, he'd hold intruders in the house while the cops were on their way. If I took him with me, he would ALWAYS be first in the house. He'd go through the entire bottom level, then he'd go upstairs, check around & come back down and lay on his bed or the couch. I think he was trained to do that too.

Good luck with whatever you decide on. Keep in mind though that these breeds don't usually need extra coaxing to protect, it just comes naturally to most of them.

[farm_girl]

OK, having a dog is great and certainly adds a lot of protection. But if you're gonna be in the car a lot, taking the dog with you doesn't make sense. 1. to offer protection, the dog's gotta get out of the car some how (thinking of you walking to your car and someone coming in behind you to grab you) and 2. once you get to your destination, what do you do with the dog? Most stores won't allow them in; summer heat means they can't stay in the car; and again, they can't protect if they can't get out.
The gun idea is ok, but you have to get the gun first. And unless you're gonna carry a shoulder holster, keeping it in a pocketbook or glove compartment is worthless.

I'm a martial arts fan for personal protection in addition to the dog and gun ideas. Knowing how to defend yourself means you're always armed. You make the decisions about when to defend. And being physically fit and limber just adds to your ability to protect yourself. I'm not a self-defense type. The trainer I learned from was selected because my standard was: disable the attacker, not just put him on the ground. I'm not a good runner or sprinter, so I really want that attacker unable to rise and follow.
Anyway, I'd add at least 1 year of good tae kon do training to your thinking about protection...... just my thoughts.......

[Aina]

I'd agree with farm girl. Some self defense stuff would be good. However, you need to make sure you do it for a while and really get a handle on it. I know I could disable an attacker using pressure points and stuff, but in Tae Kwon Do we weren't taught how to use the pressure points properly until we were going up for second degree black belt. Before that they basically taught more form and sparing, which, I doubt you are really going to get into a formal sparring match with your attacker.

However, I think a protection dog adds a bit of posturing that a gun and self defense can't. No one would know if you are carrying a gun or know martial arts, but if you have a big mean looking dog then people think twice. I have heard of some people training their dog to start growling when they say a word like "guard" and it is generally enough.
I was taught in martial arts that the goal was to never actually have to use it on someone. And I think that a dog could help that.

[painthorse72]

we have two gsd Sky and Lucky both great family dogs but our neighbors have told me they scare them. Both are very protective and do sound scary when people come up but I let them know its ok and they wag their tails and stop barking. I never worry about running somewere and leaving my daughter home with the dogs. We had a golden for 16 yrs and eveyone loved her but twice we had two attempts at breakins and Brandi scared the first one off before they finished opening the window the second time the person got into the house and Brandi chased them out and around the corner. I woke up in time to see her running him out. Another time a drunk person was talking to me and went to lean in my car window and Brandi sounded scarier than my shepherds so I do beleive any dog will protect their family but then I think of our jack russell that loves everyone and so I guess not all but most. Whats funny is our bigger gsd Lucky is the big goof and is really not the one Id worry about hurting anyone but the smaller female who sadly was hit with sticks and teased by neighbor kids. I feel safe hiking with my gsd's alone. Right out of highschool I had a personal protection dog Babe she was a rottie and I have some great pictures of my little 3 and 5 yr brothers playing with her that show her gentle side and then some schutzhund photos that would definately make you take a step back. Of course she was a lot of work because even a simple gesture from a friend could be perceived as an attack. With any dog and espeacially one that is very protective you need to spend the time on training and do your homework on breeders. I got my female Sky 6 yrs ago for search and rescue but learned that being a single mother that was not going to work out but we did agility , hiking and lots of obedience but there are days I wish I hadnt gotten a gsd with working lines because she is alot of work but I love her so its worth it.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=256&pictureid=2345
this picture for example Sky (smaller) looks intent were Lucky looks like hes saying hey dude lol

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=256&pictureid=2309
Our dogs are big babies

[dustys_girlly]

i really dont think the breed matters when it comes to a guard dog. yeah having a dobe or german shephard will get people to back away because the know the breed but if you have a good dog you dont have to worry. my 70 lbs mutt has taken on a pit that was twice his size when it tried to attack me, if dozer was not there i would have been killed because the pit was in the air within a foot of my face when dozer got him, as soon as the dog backed off dozer was back at my side. mind you he has never had any professional training or anything other than basic sit stay come lay down kinda stuff all done by hubby and me. and today my turkey was threatening to attack me and dozer got in between us and barked and lunged at him but never bit, never tried to and the moment i called him he was back at my side and as calm as could be. this is all natural for him, he is a aussie/lab/mutt.

but my uncle was part of a K-9 unit and both dogs that he worked with he adopted when they retired. one was a dobe that i would always play with named Rosie who i loved very much and miss and the other was a GS that was just as great with our big family. i still cant believe that both where police dogs with as calm as they where with all my family even when i was little hanging all over them.

[starkitten]

I agree the breed of dog doesn't necessarily matter - if you broke into my house I would be more worried about the doxies ;) However people have preconceived notions about types of dogs so it makes them think twice when they see my rott and my Angus AKA 'Cujo' ;)

[KCandAllegro'sMom]

I have both Dobermans and GSDs. I like them both.

I had a female Dobe that was a *itch on wheels and pretty hyper. She was just not a very people friend dog, other than with immediate family. We got her when she was 6 months old and she hadn't really been socialized very well. She had spent most of those 6 months in a crate.
Another Dobe I rescued was just as mellow as can be. I couldn't keep him though, because he hated the male GSD I had at the time.

My GSDs have all been great dogs. The only downside to them IMO is that they shed alot.

I think the important thing would be to get one from a good breeder.

As far as for protection, I don't think you necessarily need one trained in PPD. Most dogs just by presence alone are a good enough deterrant for any would be burglars, etc.

[KCandAllegro'sMom]

High;)

Steve

I ditto that...I have 3!

[GrungeEquestrian]

I don't think the breed makes a huge difference. I have a rescue from a neglect case. She is a 6 year old Giant Schnauzer and is protective of her family and pretty much anybody she knows. There have been many times that I am glad she is next to me when I am walking. In the summer I walk her at night since she is black and doesn't handle the mid day heat very well. Once we were walking next to the woods, I felt like someone was following me, but I am very paranoid. Then I heard twigs cracking but kept telling myself it was deer, I walked fast and then my dog Payton stopped, growled and barked, then twig cracking became more frequent but going the opposite direction...I heard a few vulgar language and I knew it wasn't deer. Then Payton pushed me forward and walked behind me the rest of the walk. She is very smart and doesn't trust dark shady men at night, if they are passes us going the other direction on the sidewalk she will walk next to me and sometimes literally bump them off into the grass. She is a friendly dog and loves people, but she is very protective of her van and family. When I bring her with to the barn and she is in her van, when the BO's husband first passed the van she growled and barked at him. Then I'll took her out of the barn and she saw who it is and wagged her little stub of a tail and let him pet her. Now she has no problems when he passes the van, she just doesn't want strangers right next to it. I love her too death and I think because she is a rescue she tries to repay us everyday.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j10/horsehugger113/DSC06151.jpg

[mtnmollie]

As far as for protection, I don't think you necessarily need one trained in PPD. Most dogs just by presence alone are a good enough deterrant for any would be burglars, etc.

Koheler who trains police dogs recommended you obedience train your dog.
The dog will then protect the family naturally.

Protection trained dogs can be a liability, and not an asset- he said.

Leerburg.com - good police dog site.

[oursarge]

My Noah is a Border Collie mix and he freaks if someone comes in the house if we're not home so he's not a great watch dog. If I'm here with him he always puts himself between me and who ever is here. If someone touches me he goes for them. I always tell people don't touch me if he's around, even my man, it has to be a group hug with Noah or he can get nasty. He's very very friendly as long as nobody touches me then he can be scary. My father was teasing one night just lightly slapping my arm and Noah went right after him and bit into his coat and he loves my father but he loves me more. If I am laying down he will not let anyone in the room. I maybe should discourage the behavior but I don't since I have a thing about strangers touching me and I feel safer knowing that he will bite it someone did come after me. He never even had tried to bite anyone unless they touch me so it's not like he's vicious at any other time.

GrungeE. your dog is beautiful!

[alittleoffkey]

I know I could disable an attacker using pressure points and stuff, but in Tae Kwon Do we weren't taught how to use the pressure points properly until we were going up for second degree black belt. Before that they basically taught more form and sparing, which, I doubt you are really going to get into a formal sparring match with your attacker.

Will took Jujitsu and they teach you all about pressure points from the very beginning. The instructor is Will's second-father, and he taught me a lot of stuff too. :) If you lived in GA we could talk the instructor into giving you a short-course in self defense.

Will has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do - and it really depends on what dojo (company) you go to. ATA is notoriously a "black belt academy" - you run through and get your black belt within a year. Will had to work hard for six and a half years before he went to his eight hour black belt test (Will adds: "Oh the suffering").

If I were looking at something for self-defense, I'd really look to Jujitsu. I learned a lot just from watching their classes (I went every week with Will). Grappling is a main theme in those classes. Will says Hapkido and another one he can't remember are also very self-defense-y. He took a semester's worth of Hapkido classes and learned all sorts of interesting ways to break peoples arms, with very minimal effort. ;)

[mtnmollie]

My Texas Ranger-

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=65&pictureid=469

Shot (by a tresspassing hunter just off my land) when he was 2. He needed his personsl protection person sooner.