Lets talk about William Ayers.......

[rocknK]

Terrorist, college professor, buddy of Obamma.

[HoustonFarrier]

William Ayers is the sludge of society.....and IMHO, anyone who associates with him is in the same boat.

Steve

[mlle_beau]

Yup, I agree with both of you

[rocknK]

I should've said, unrepentant terrorist.:cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

William Ayers is the sludge of society.....and IMHO, anyone who associates with him is in the same boat.

Steve

Buddy of big O? I have to add terrorist to my O profile? :cowboy:

[rums_mom]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

A smokescreen that McCain/Palin is using because they can't or won't discuss the real issues.

Anyone want to talk about McCain and the Keating 5?

[WashingtonBay]

I think McCain and the Keating 5 has been widely discussed and talked about already decades ago when it happened. And McCain was cleared of wrongdoing.

I think the issue with Ayers is that he's a radical, and radicals don't seem unwelcome to Obama... they're among his friends and advisers and very much a part of his base. So how close is he to those ideas?

I don't think anyone would ever assume McCain hangs out with people who speak out against American ideals or goes to the same dinner parties as they do... Does Obama?

[Toodlestoo]

Obama is a liar--plain and simple. When he said he was a member of Rev. Wright's church for 20 years and never heard him utter a bad word about our country--oh, please! Ayers was just a guy in his neighborhood--oh, please! At the least, it shows such poor judgement in his group of friends. Why would his judgement in choosing his cabinet, judges, etc. be any better. How can you trust someone who would lie like this? We all express dissatisfaction with our country now and then--that's normal but the hate-spewed sermons from Rev. Wright and the terroristic bombings of Ayers cannot be ignored.

[Sundays Man]

I should've said, unrepentant terrorist.:cowboy:

I agree, that's what he is, but I'm really hoping someone will give Hanity (sp) a new tag for him. I'm tired of that one....maybe "unrepentant scumbag terrorist" or something. Too bad he wasn't martyred.

I don't understand why he isn't still looking at the world through bars! Scumbag (Ayers).

[rums_mom]

Let's get something straight about McCain and the Keating 5. He was not cleared of wrong doing. He admitted to what he did and the decision was that what he did was 'bad judgment' and something he admitted was the worse mistake of his life.

Obama and Ayers relationship has been hashed and rehashed. Did you read the link I posted?

Quote:
Federal riot and bombing conspiracy charges against him were dropped in 1974 because of illegal wiretaps and other prosecutorial misconduct, and he was welcomed back after years in hiding by his large and prominent family. His father, Thomas G. Ayers, had served as chief executive of Commonwealth Edison, the local power company.

Since earning a doctorate in education at Columbia in 1987, Mr. Ayers has been a professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, the author or editor of 15 books, and an advocate of school reform.

“He’s done a lot of good in this city and nationally,” Mayor Richard M. Daley said in an interview this week, explaining that he has long consulted Mr. Ayers on school issues. Mr. Daley, whose father was Chicago’s mayor during the street violence accompanying the 1968 Democratic National Convention and the so-called Days of Rage the following year, said he saw the bombings of that time in the context of a polarized and turbulent era.

“This is 2008,” Mr. Daley said. “People make mistakes. You judge a person by his whole life.”

There are not nor have their been reports of Obama spending vacations with Ayers.

[twofingers]

I would like to point out that 4 [four] of the keating 5 [five] were democrats and that McCain threw keating out of his office when he came to apply pressure because he realized this was a scam. Has BO thrown ayers out of his office? By the way I went to the funeral of one of those who was murdered by Ayers! On an interesting note however, it does give osama and obama something in common - they both are friends with and receive support from people who planed and carried out bombings against America :nono: hamas supports osama and has contributed to obamas campaign, kadifi supports osama and has contributed to obama, the PLO supports osama and has contributed to obama. iran supports osama and has contributed to obama. the list does go on but to the ignorant and arrogant it won't really matter.

[Sundays Man]

Aww geee, and we were all playing together so pretty. I guess it has to happen, that's democracy and freedom of speech and such. :popcorn: LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

[rums_mom]

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080929/berman_ames

What about McCain's birthday cruise with shady businessman Folieri? Another error in judgment?

[rums_mom]

I would like to point out that 4 [four] of the keating 5 [five] were democrats and that McCain threw keating out of his office when he came to apply pressure because he realized this was a scam. Has BO thrown ayers out of his office? By the way I went to the funeral of one of those who was murdered by Ayers! On an interesting note however, it does give osama and obama something in common - they both are friends with and receive support from people who planed and carried out bombings against America :nono: hamas supports osama and has contributed to obamas campaign, kadifi supports osama and has contributed to obama, the PLO supports osama and has contributed to obama. iran supports osama and has contributed to obama. the list does go on but to the ignorant and arrogant it won't really matter.

So curious now, I suppose you do have documenting evidence to back up your claims?

But none of them are running for president are they? Or have their fingers covered with the current banking buyout?

Just admit, neither candidate should be throwing stones, they both live in glass houses.:p

[HoustonFarrier]

I guess Bill Clinton got suckered too....but we weren't supposed to see that :p.

So he got suckered by a con man BEFORE he was exposed. It happens. Big difference between a con man and a nut like Bill Ayers.


At the time he met McCain, Follieri was adept at collecting friends in powerful places and using those connections to attract investments in projects which later turned out to be bogus. His ties to Bill Clinton and his entourage have been well-documented; the charismatic Follieri, whom Vanity Fair has likened to an ambitious nineteenth-century protagonist from a Balzac novel, ingratiated himself to President Clinton and aides by posing as a mega-donor to the Clinton Global Initiative. He also formed an investment partnership with California business mogul and Clinton donor Ron Burkle to develop surplus real estate properties owned by the Catholic Church, which Follieri claimed to represent. Burkle later sued Follieri for $1.3 million in misappropriated funds.

Steve

[WashingtonBay]

Obama and Ayers relationship has been hashed and rehashed.

You're talking about Keating, that happened in 1989. Define hashed and rehashed.

Obama's new to most of us... We're still trying to find out what he's about. I think all of his dealings are still very much on the first hash. :)

Time will tell whether he's still hanging out with these type of folks or if they were just some radicals he happened to share a few rooms with. We know that these types are attracted to him... how he handles them will speak volumes.

[Sundays Man]

So curious now, I suppose you do have documenting evidence to back up your claims?

But none of them are running for president are they? Or have their fingers covered with the current banking buyout?

Just admit, neither candidate should be throwing stones, they both live in glass houses.:p


AMEN sister, there is no one person out there that can't be smeared in some way by the media and non-supporters. However, I must confess, I agree with WB on this one. There is still a LOT we don't know about Mr. O and probably never will. However, I feel that if he were the Repulican candidate, we would find out more than we wanted to know from the media about him. Just saying.

[rums_mom]

Did you think I posted it so you WOULD NOT see it? Of course you were meant to see it.

WB...the thing is and I have stated this previously, I just about forgot about the Keating 5 and I was an adult at the time, although I remember the S & L buyout quite well. So for many of us, we may have forgotten about it or for those who were not around when it happened, may not have ever heard of it.

Also for many of us, McCain's history is new to us. I never followed his political career much, see I don't or never have lived in AZ, although I have visited it many times and have loads of family there. So his past is relevant to me.

[HoustonFarrier]

Keating 5

Alan Cranston (D- CA) got 39K from Keating
Dennis DeConcinni (D- AZ) got 48K from keating
John Glenn (D-OH) got 234K from keating
Donald Reigle (D-MI) got 76K from Keating
John McCain (R-AZ) got 112K from Keating and some trips

Just FYI :)

Steve

[twofingers]

rums mom all you have to do is look up who has contributed to his campaign which he is legally required by law to post.

[WashingtonBay]

OK mom... then if you want to rehash keating.... I don't think you can call anything about Obama old news is all. ;)

[rums_mom]

http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=16811

McCain's connection to Russian gangsters.............

What about his gambling?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/3098739/John-McCains-gambling-habit-could-alienate-Christian-Republicans.html

Quote:
"Mr McCain's claims to be a Washington outsider were also thrown into doubt after his extensive ties to the gambling industry and its lobbyists were revealed by the newspaper. The Obama campaign seized on this to call into question his claims to be a "maverick" intent on changing the system.

"Gambling in casinos that you regulate with the lobbyists that represent those casinos is more of the same broken, special interest driven politics that has dominated Washington," said Dan Pfeiffer, Mr Obama's spokesman.

The Republican candidate once gambled in a casino on an Indian reservation that he oversaw as chairman of the Senate Indian Affairs committee, with lobbyists who had represented that casino, according to the paper.

Former members of Mr McCain's staff said he indulged in a marathon session at the Foxwoods Resort Casino in Connecticut in 2000 after he had lost the Republican presidential primary to George W Bush.

The casino is run by the Pequot tribe, which has contributed heavily to Mr McCain's campaigns and has transformed Foxwood into one of the world's largest casinos. He was accompanied by Rick Davis, his campaign manager, at the invitation of Scott Reed, Mr Davis' old boss and a McCain fundraiser who had done extensive lobbying work for the tribe.

Tucker Bounds, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, said: "There has been no more effective voice on regulating the Indian gaming industry than John McCain."

Statistics from the non-aligned Centre for Responsive Politics show that Mr McCain is the largest recipient of money from the casino industry in Congress, outside the gambling meccas of Nevada and New Jersey, and that 40 of his top fundraisers and advisers have ties to the gambling industry. In this presidential race he has received twice as much from the industry as Mr Obama." end quote.


http://gawker.com/5055179/shady-mccain-junkets-in-felons-bitter-blog

[WashingtonBay]

You're going to have to do better than an article full of winking and innuendo from Salon if you're going to tie McCain to the Russian mafia.

And who cares if McCain likes to gamble at casinos.... So do lots of people, myself included.

And how about this, moms... lets get back to Ayers. I don't think accusations against McCain are necessarily a relevant response to questions about Obama and Ayers...

In fact, we haven't talked about anything directly relating to what, if anything Ayers has to do with Obama yet....

... just sayin. :)

Anyone? Anyone have anything concrete? I admit I don't have time to go find it. Can we have a little Ayers 101, maybe a flow chart? :)

[HoustonFarrier]

I guess if McCain is in with the Russian mafia........here's an article linking Obama to Communists !!!!!

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/ap-whitewashes-another-obama-mentor

Steve

[twofingers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)

[rums_mom]

I did post something that clearly stated that Obama's connections with Ayers were never what you would call close. I'll leave it at that.

Just stating that if Obama's connections to associates are going to be scutinized on innuendo that McCain's should be as well.

I am fully aware that I can look up who has made political contributions. I am expected to come up with my sources so I think it is perfectly legit to ask the same of others.

[rums_mom]

[QUOTE=WashingtonBay;7127]You're going to have to do better than an article full of winking and innuendo from Salon if you're going to tie McCain to the Russian mafia.

QUOTE]

same can be said of the sources accusing Obama of being a communist.........sheesh. My husband has friends that performed on an award winning CD with Cuban musicians in Cuba! Guess I could be accused of socializing with communist sympathizers, too. Oh and my goodness, I knew James Baldwin, spent many cold Chicago nights sharing a fine wine and talking! I must be a commie..............

And as Nazi sympathizers go, can't beat Prescott Bush's connections.

[HoustonFarrier]

same can be said of the sources accusing Obama of being a communist

What's good for the goose...is good for the gander :)

Steve

[rums_mom]

Yessum that is correct, HF.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/10/mccains_chilling_dance_with_th.html

[WashingtonBay]

I really don't think we want to start down the road of making candidates responsible for the bad behavior of nutty supporters they don't even know. After all, remember we had groups making Molotov cocktails to disrupt the RNC convention with remember? Shall we assume Obama was behind that?

We're talking about people with real connections to these candidates.

Don't make me go to DU and start asking you how Obama would answer some of the unAmerican and unsavory posts there. ;)

[mtnmollie]

Did you think I posted it so you WOULD NOT see it? Of course you were meant to see it.



That is a great post rum. You are cool. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

So curious now, I suppose you do have documenting evidence to back up your claims?



Oh we have to have documenting evidence to play here?

I can do that on my Forest Service thread-
the Game Warden built quite a case-

but not here. LOL. :cowboy:

It takes a lot of work to build a case for the court.

[mtnmollie]

... just sayin. :)

Anyone? Anyone have anything concrete? I admit I don't have time to go find it.

No not me. I dont have time to go find it...

In my book Bitterroot Crossing a thing is documted soneone said if you write down the day, month and year they said it. I never did that with the info I gathered on America's comming storm.

I also notice people deny they said what they said therfore recordiing conversations is best for court.

Also in court you get two different stories sometimes of an event...

[mtnmollie]

Look- look i talk too much. Sm lets go ride our horsies. :cowboy:

[rocknK]

Holy Cow, I've been out riding all day & you folks start talking smack...you could've at least waited until I got home!:nono:

[grandmadeb]

Just last night I saw on the news that "Troopergate" has taken an ugly turn with Ms. Palin looking like she abused her power as Governor. Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee are looking pretty darn good right now.

[rocknK]

I don't get it...in the same report they said she had the authority. So, how can using your authority be abuse. By the way the fella (trooper) was a real scumbag.:cowboy:

[WashingtonBay]

I guess the way I look at it is, they looked real hard at the whole "troopergate" events, and couldn't come up with anything actionable she did wrong, just a subjective judgment that she "abused her power". That's opinion folks. She had the right to fire who she wanted, for her own reasons. "Fair" depends on whose side you want to be on.

[Tiz]

Ayers was pictured, shortly after 9/11, standing on a crumpled American flag, He said at that time that he wished they "had done more", referring to the bombings. Remember, people were killed in these attacks.
The only quote I've heard attributed to Ayers, that said anything positive about the USA, was when he was set free on technicalities. He said as he left the courthouse "Guilty as hell. Free as a bird. What a great country."

Speaking of birds.....

Birds of a feather, flock together. Ayers, Wright, Pflager, Farrakan, Rezco are enough for me.

[Cat]

All I get out of this is all politicians are scum and need :trout: and :whack: most of the time. And that I really, really wish prelims could be redone because I don't like either choice. Anything else?

[rocknK]

Nobodies perfect....sometimes all a person can do is hold their nose & vote!:puke:

[grandmadeb]

My understanding is that she had the authority to fire the guy that her husband was hounding to fire the ex brother in law. It seems her husband was the one who was going after the ex brother in law but that he was using the fact that his wife was the governor to gain an advantage in getting it done. The investigaters said it was her responsibility to put a stop to it and she failed to do so. She abused her power by not stopping her husband's efforts. She had also claimed that the ex brother in law was threatening the family which the investigaters said they could find no evidence to support that claim. I think the lady is kind of a loose cannon and is hurting the Mc Cain effort to become president.

[vicklynn]

quote rums mom
Federal riot and bombing conspiracy charges against him were dropped in 1974 because of illegal wiretaps and other prosecutorial misconduct, and he was welcomed back after years in hiding by his large and prominent family. His father, Thomas G. Ayers, had served as chief executive of Commonwealth Edison, the local power company.
end quote.
So, because of the illegal wiretaps, he didnt do it. I think thats not the case.
I mean, say your speeding, a cop sets up a radar trap. You know you can fight those, so you say, Im innocent. Its not that your innocent, its just that you found a way go get by your wrong.

[WashingtonBay]

I couldn't agree less than Palin is hurting McCain. Conservatives love her. She's the funnest thing to happen to politics in a long long time. :D

[vicklynn]

Nobodies perfect....sometimes all a person can do is hold their nose & vote!:puke:
LOL
Im telling ya, neither McCain or Obama are the Presidents for us.
I have voted republican and I have voted Democrat.
My issue this yr is that Obama will sell us to any country at the blink of an eye and not even regret it. McCain may not be the best candidate, but he backs the USA.
The rest of the crap, I gave up on, Im not gonna beat my head and make it hurt.
I cant change what either one is going to do, but I can place my vote and hope that our country makes it through.

[vicklynn]

I couldn't agree less than Palin is hurting McCain. Conservatives love her. She's the funnest thing to happen to politics in a long long time. :D
You got that right.

[WashingtonBay]

Even though I don't think funnest is really a word ;)

[Toodlestoo]

[quote=vicklynn;8175]LOL
Im telling ya, neither McCain or Obama are the Presidents for us.

I couldn't agree more Vick! As I said before, I'm a Republican but I am so disappointed in Bush.:( I can see why people want to vote out the Republicans but I hate the thought of a Democratic president and a Democratic congress. :eek:

[grandmadeb]

I guess I will be holding my nose and they should have oxygen available as well as voting booth sick bags. I hope the funnest thing in politics is the funnnest vice president if elected. With the financial situation of the country we could use some fun. Although, George W. has given me quite a few laughs over the last 8 years so I guess he is, soon to be was, a fun president.
Politicians are what they are and they all have something to hide and they all owe someone something whether we know it or not because they go to great lengths to convince us they are the answer to our prayers.

[Arrow]

I couldn't agree less than Palin is hurting McCain. Conservatives love her. She's the funnest thing to happen to politics in a long long time. :D

You can't win with only those votes, any more than liberals can win with only their votes. You've got to bring in the independents and get some liberals to swing--and Palin's failing to do that, big time.

[moka]

LOL

My issue this yr is that Obama will sell us to any country at the blink of an eye and not even regret it.

I am just curious how is Obama going to do that?

When I read comments about fearing Barack Obama, not trusting him, it leaves me totally bewildered. What has he done to merit such fear? Did his ancestors ever support a legal right to enslave others? Did his ancestors engage in the wholesale lynching of others based on skin color? Did his ancestors deny people the right to vote, to live where they pleased, to attend school, to marry whom they pleased?

What has Obama personally done that has demeaned others? Has he ran a campaign of divisiveness? Has he declared that he is only concerned about the well-being of black people? Does being erudite, capable of presenting complex ideas in an understandable fashion, make him a person to be feared?

What do you have to be afraid of?

[Arrow]

Obama's a very, very patriotic American. I think he'll make a fantastic president, I'll vote to give him a chance to prove it.

[WashingtonBay]

I am just curious how is Obama going to do that?

What do you have to be afraid of?

I am afraid he is weak. And naive enough to think he can shake hands and smile and charm those who hate us into liking us. He actually believes they have good reason to act out against us and he can right it. And I think they'll take whatever he gives them, and then eat him for lunch. That's truly what I'm afraid of.

Who is answering the phone at 3 am indeed, and just how much stomach for hard choices does he have? I think he'd pay the ransom, and I really don't believe McCain ever would.

[grandmadeb]

Hey, Guys and Gals,(smile wink wink). Talk about people smiling and charming others into liking them Ms Palin could give lessons.

[WashingtonBay]

Heh... yeah - but for her it may actually work.

Because she'll smile and still not give you a thing.

Important distinction!

[Arrow]

There's nothing wrong with discussing Ayers, it's the WAY the McCain campaign is discussing him. The tone of Palin's rallies are getting truly scary. The news about them this week is scattered to the four winds, but this Sunday editorial by Frank Rich (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/opinion/12rich.html?hp) includes links to all of them, so it's full of info. Palin has practically come right out and said Obama is a terrorist, and as Rich writes, if McCain ads ask "who is Obama," it's not surprising that folks are yelling "terrorist" in response at rallies.

Lots of folks think these folks are plants (including a friend I had dinner with tonight)--either by Obama supporters wanting a scandal or by Republicans trying to stoke crowds--but does it really matter if they're plants? The point is that Palin never responds and says, "hey, this isn't appropriate," and McCain has only responded once, and then, weakly. McCain also responded to "he's an Arab," with "no he's a decent family man," as if Arab = terrorist.

For Palin and McCain not to forcefully say "that's not appropriate, that kind of talk will not be tolerated," says a lot about who they are and what they'll do to get to the White House.

These rallies have included shouts of "terrorist" and "kill him" (that one may have referred to Ayers not Obama), and one person told a black camera guy to "sit down, boy"--calling a grown black man "boy" is no accident or harmless expression--anyone over 30 in America knows exactly what that means.

[JackieB]

When I read comments about fearing Barack Obama, not trusting him, it leaves me totally bewildered. What has he done to merit such fear?

I don't understand it either, moka. I can absolutely understand why some would choose to vote against him based on his platform. There are huge differences between what he and McCain propose for healthcare, foreign policy, and taxes. Anyone on the other side of those issues has good reason to vote for McCain.

But this is much more visceral. A deep-seated mistrust that I am positive is misplaced. This past week, since the McCain campaign decided to really attack the character issue, some of those rallies had a really scary tone to them.

Even some very conservative Republicans called for McCain's campaign to tone it down a bit, and McCain admirably did say a few things at a rally on Friday to try to set the record straight.

If someone doesn't like Barack Obama's platform, then by all means don't vote for him. But there isn't any reason to dislike him as a presidential candidate any more than any other Democratic presidential candidates before him.

[WashingtonBay]

Phooey. Code Pink breaks into the convention shouting... it's obnoxious to most, heroic to some, but not scary.

Candidates for president are supposed to address hecklers now?

People are a little too eager to make McCain and Palin out to be scary and racist. They're not. It's not going to work for me.

[WashingtonBay]

If someone doesn't like Barack Obama's platform, then by all means don't vote for him. But there isn't any reason to dislike him as a presidential candidate any more than any other Democratic presidential candidates before him.

I don't dislike him more... I thought Kerry was rather weak too, and Gore before him, if that helps. :)

[Arrow]

They aren't hecklers--they are agreeing with McCain and Palin at their rallies, how is that heckling?

Frank Rich comes right out and says "McCain is no racist," and he doesn't call Palin a racist either. But Palin's been quoting Pegler, and there are certainly racists working for McCain's campaign. So Obama's consorting with terrorists, and McCain and Palin are consorting with racists--what a super fun and uplifting election season this is.

[WashingtonBay]

Blech... I'm not in the mood for answering that tonight. I honestly have no idea what you're referring to.

[Arrow]

Ah--let it go, WB--like you don't have enough to worry about with a new forum! The Frank Rich editorial spells out exactly who's working on McCain's campaign.

[grandmadeb]

I don't think Palin is a racist but I sure think she is on SCARY lady.

[Arrow]

Agreed--I don't know her well enough to say one way or another about the race issue, I haven't seen any sign of it, but she's definitely scary for other reasons.

[WashingtonBay]

I don't think she's scary, I think she's cool - she's got moxie. :)

[rocknK]

And I think she's HOTTT!!!!!:p

[JackieB]

... it's obnoxious to most, heroic to some, but not scary.

I hope you're right. I definitely don't think that McCain and Palin are racist. I think they are attacking Obama's character in an effort to somehow get the momentum turned back their direction. But some of the rhetoric at their rallies this past week has gotten to be a bit worrisome. It's just gone beyond what we might normally expect such as "Defeat Obama!"

For example, look at what this minister said just this morning at McCain's rally (before the candidate arrived). To their credit, the McCain team did issue a statement disagreeing with these words, but I just wish people would stop saying these things.

“There are millions of people around this world praying to their god—whether it’s Hindu, Buddha, Allah—that his opponent wins, for a variety of reasons. And Lord, I pray that you will guard your own reputation, because they’re going to think that their God is bigger than you, if that happens,” said Arnold Conrad, the former pastor of Grace Evangelical Free Church in Davenport.

It's just not right to say these things. There are absolutely no supporting facts for statements like these, but they persist.

[WashingtonBay]

You guys keep talking about all these "scary" rallies, and I haven't seen any of them... I've been "working" on this forum!

So... I guess I'll have to go back to watching the news so I can better correct you on what's going on. :)

[Arrow]

Just read the editorial I posted and follow the links...next week! You're plenty busy, I think!

[WashingtonBay]

Naw... I want to watch the actual events.... not the spin. Have you? Are the links to actual footage of the whole thing? :)

[Arrow]

Just checking things out on youtube--there's too many to count, but here's one where the commentator says Palin might not have heard it--but you can get clips of a lot of her rallies and decide for yourself.

YouTube - DN! "KILL HIM!!![OBAMA]." PALIN SAYS NOTHING IN RESPONSE.

[Arrow]

Well, that one's not playing...

but McCain must hear "terrorist" here, and he says nothing.

YouTube - Obama Hatred At McCain-Palin Rallies: "Terrorist! Kill Him!"

[Arrow]

Wow--listened to that again, and in addition to "terrorist," right after McCain says, "who is Barack Obama," someone yells really loudly "Kill him!"

Search for that title on youtube if this doesn't play for you--

[twofingers]

While this discussion is quasi interesting it is for the most part truly irrelevant. as long as the politicians have you looking at and discussing the petty intransigences of the humanity in their opponent they never have to worry about you thinking about the greater good or actual reality.
the monetary crises is not a lack of production, a lack of resources, a lack of work nor a lack of money. it is that credit!! people who think that they have a right to live beyond their means, who think that working for what they want foolish because they are entitled, that working at Mcyucktals is below their dignity, people who think that a minimum wage job should get you the same house bill gates lives in and if they do stupid things is is your responsibility to pull their a*& out.
you are about to loose the greatest gifts god ever bestowed on mankind, your liberties and rights and all you can do is bitch about rather you want a cracker or an oreo with you whine.

[Arrow]

And that's why Obama will win--Americans aren't going to trust McCain with the collapsing economy.

[WashingtonBay]

The videos work... And they are tempests in teapots. I didn't hear anything definitive shouted in either one, to tell you the truth, and this is after listening pretty hard for it. Ordinarily, I'd be paying attention to the speech, not the crowd.

And Ayers did more for Obama than she lets on in the first one, the kickoff party for Obama's first campaign was at Ayers house.

[rocknK]

I think they are just ignoring the Democratic plants in the audience put there to stir up trouble & get their voices on TV to make McCain & Palin look bad.

[Arrow]

It's not so clear in the Palin one, but it's dead clear in the McCain one. I'd think he didn't hear it, being 72 and all, except that he pauses and smirks a little. "Kill him" is very clear right after "Who is the real Barack Obama?"

[Arrow]

But what if others follow the lead of the plants? What if they do violence? Even if it would be the fault of the plants, McCain or Palin should confront that kind of talk. McCain's been reading the press, even if you refuse to WB, hence his little "no, be respectful" bit on Friday or whatever.

[WashingtonBay]

That doesn't even make any sense, Arrow. And I'm honestly not sure what you think a candidate is supposed to do in the middle of a speech. Now... if someone gets out of hand, security may start moving, but the candidate goes on. And well they should.

I'm not going to listen to it again.... this is silly and I'm not in the mood.

[Arrow]

It's not a speech, it's a rally. If it was me, I'd say, "That kind of talk is unacceptable and it must stop--this is America and we don't talk about killing people at political rallies."

I'm talking about someone hearing all that "Kill him" at rallies and killing someone next week--sorry if what I said didn't make sense.

Sorry you think it's silly, not much I can do about that. I don't think it's silly, and a lot of conservative columnists who don't work for Fox and National Review don't think it's silly either.

If you're not in the mood, just leave it for another time. I know how busy you've been with the forum, and the forum's going great!

You did ask for clips after all, and I provided them.

[WashingtonBay]

But what if others follow the lead of the plants? What if they do violence? Even if it would be the fault of the plants, McCain or Palin should confront that kind of talk. McCain's been reading the press, even if you refuse to WB, hence his little "no, be respectful" bit on Friday or whatever.

I've heard every single one of these appearances has been flanked by antiwar and Code Pink protesters shouting nasty things and trying to disrupt. And you know what they're a little scary too. That's why both sides have good security... Politics has never been nastier.

[rocknK]

Kind of like yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre. Bad no-no. Any violence & the instigators (plants or not) should be held liable. Our First Amendment doesn't cover stupid.

[Arrow]

O.K.--the other side's doing it, too. Not with Obama ignoring it, though--he's not there. I'm talking about McCain letting his followers spew that crap, not about protesters shouting it at the rallies. I don't think anyone's shouting "Kill him" when Obama talks about McCain or Bush at his rallies--if they did, I think Obama would tell them not, too.

[WashingtonBay]

Honestly, to me it sounds a lot like people are trying to create booogie men to scare people, and it's working, unfortunately. I guess you can hope they don't mic the crowd that's following Obama. I've been exposed to what is in their heads over at DU.

[rocknK]

WB, speaking of Code Pink...I witnessed a bunch of their "rallies" in Berzerkeley. You have never seen an uglier bunch of foul-mouthed pinch faced biddies in your life. The City Council even gave them their own parking spots right in front of the Marine recruiters office & police protection. Funny part about it was they wereprotesting "kids" being lured into the military, presumably right after high school. This office was for "OFFICER" recruitment. They wanted college graduate MEN & WOMEN! Went on for over a year at tax payer expense!:puke:

[JackieB]

Well, here's the prayer the minister offered today, WB. I suppose that the McCain campaign is only partially responsible for what officials who are not formally part of their campaign team say at their rallies (and they did issue a statement denouncing this part of the prayer), but this type of rhetoric can be dangerous. From about :55 on, this minister goes way out of bounds.

I would just dismiss this as a wacky preacher saying something dumb, but these types of comments aren't that uncommon in this election cycle. We hear some repeated even on this forum.

It's a fact that Christianity considers other religions to be "false" religions. So portraying a political candidate to not only be not-Christian, but a proponent/adherent/ally of any religion outside of Christianity in a predominantly Christian country (the U.S.) is potentially very inflammatory. We've all seen how contentious these discussions get just on our forum (previous one).

If someone is going to make statements like this minister did today, or like we fairly often hear repeated about Obama, he/she has a big responsibility to make sure that they are based in fact. But they're not. All they can say is "I don't care what Obama says, he's lying."

YouTube - Rev. Arnold Conrad at McCain Rally - Jesus versus Obama?

[WashingtonBay]

I only read the snippet you posted above, and I'm not even really defending it, but my read was not that he was saying Obama isn't Christian, it's that terrorists may be praying to their God that Obama wins... Not because he's on their side, but because he is viewed as weaker.

I think the preacher's a little weird, I don't think God needs to be warned that his reputation is at risk from other people's Gods.

[JackieB]

I only read the snippet you posted above, and I'm not even really defending it, but my read was not that he was saying Obama isn't Christian, it's that terrorists may be praying to their God that Obama wins... Not because he's on their side, but because he is viewed as weaker.

I doubt many would view his comments that way, WB. I like to consider myself to be fairly perceptive and I do see what you are saying, but it took me awhile to figure it out.

[WashingtonBay]

No, that is what he's saying. He did not say Obama is not Christian, he said that those other people have their own reasons for hoping Obama wins.

He's a weird preacher... please don't make me defend him. I don't have time for this!

[JackieB]

No, that is what he's saying. He did not say Obama is not Christian, he said that those other people have their own reasons for hoping Obama wins.

He's a weird preacher... please don't make me defend him. I don't have time for this!

Oh, OK. Well, I guess I'm wrong then. I still wish he would have refrained. The McCain campaign apparently interpreted Reverend Conrad's remarks to be an indictment of Obama's religious beliefs (rather than simply that he is a weaker candidate than McCain) because they issued a statement to that effect.

“While we understand the important role that faith plays in informing the votes of Iowans, questions about the religious background of the candidates only serve to distract from the real questions in this race about Barack Obama's judgment, policies and readiness to lead as commander in chief,” said McCain campaign spokesperson Wendy Riemann.

By the way WB, you don't have to hop in here and defend or debate. We know that you and WBoy have a forum to run now (and a beeeeyooootiful one at that!) and you probably don't have as much time to socialize as you would if you were simply a member. I can represent your interests just fine. :p

[WashingtonBay]

I can represent your interests just fine. :p

~yeah~:rolleyes: I think I'll have to keep stopping by... :)

[Toodlestoo]

[

By the way WB, you don't have to hop in here and defend or debate. We know that you and WBoy have a forum to run now (and a beeeeyooootiful one at that!) and you probably don't have as much time to socialize as you would if you were simply a member. I can represent your interests just fine. :p[/quote]



Ooo JackieB.--I'm surprised you didn't get "fish slapped" for that comment.:)

[rocknK]

On another thread Carla referred to it as "bass whoopped", I like that term better!:clap:

[rums_mom]

quote rums mom
Federal riot and bombing conspiracy charges against him were dropped in 1974 because of illegal wiretaps and other prosecutorial misconduct, and he was welcomed back after years in hiding by his large and prominent family. His father, Thomas G. Ayers, had served as chief executive of Commonwealth Edison, the local power company.
end quote.
So, because of the illegal wiretaps, he didnt do it. I think thats not the case.
I mean, say your speeding, a cop sets up a radar trap. You know you can fight those, so you say, Im innocent. Its not that your innocent, its just that you found a way go get by your wrong.

The wiretaps were illegal, so his case was thrown out on that little technicality. And police still need to have probable cause to charge you with a crime, now probable cause has become a very gray area but still, those are safeguards to protect us as citizens of a republic. Otherwise we wouldn't be much different than Communist Russia or China.

FYI:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/10/kinne.html

[vicklynn]

The wiretaps were illegal, so his case was thrown out on that little technicality. And police still need to have probable cause to charge you with a crime, now probable cause has become a very gray area but still, those are safeguards to protect us as citizens of a republic. Otherwise we wouldn't be much different than Communist Russia or China.

FYI:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/10/kinne.html

I understand all the legalities. I guess what Im trying to say is. If you do something wrong, you know you did it, weather any one saw you or not, you have still done wrong. Im not judging the guy, just saying that if he did it, then hes wrong. If they have it on tape and have proof but cant use it, hes still wrong. Weather he can be found guilty is another story.
Does that make sence? For me, it boils down to the individual. Do you know if your guilty or not? I know when Ive done something wrong, and if videoed or recorded, and can still get away with it, Im still wrong, Im just not in jail.

[mtnmollie]

you are about to loose the greatest gifts god ever bestowed on mankind, your liberties and rights ...

Yep. Well stated 2.

Were off-were off- to Germany hi ho! (But we dont even know it yet.)

On the way to Ashwitz, the Jews talked about the rummers of the oven.

But they did not believe it. Not yet.

[mtnmollie]

Went on for over a year at tax payer expense!:puke:

But they dont spend our money without our permission do they?

No taxataion without reresentaion? or something like that?

The boston tea party and we the people?

When the Feds started doing more than National Defense- is that when we lost control?

If we were all taxed ten percent and one percent went to the Feds and they were not allowed to overspend- then what would happen?

No body really wants to fix our mess. The dam is leaking in a lot of places. :cowboy:

my 2cents

[rocknK]

The Mayor Berzerkeley, Tom Bates actually had his picture taken with the Code Pink "gals" wearing a pink beret. :puke: :puke: