Educate me, please?

[carla]

So. Is there any possible difference between "navicular disease/syndrome," and an alleged "navicular injury?"

I'm thinking no, but maybe you all will humor me since it's late. :innocent:

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

A horse you Know?

[JackieB]

I'm not certain, but my guess is that there is a difference. A disease/syndrome suggests a chronic, ongoing problem, whereas an injury usually refers to a single event. For example, I have quite a bit of arthritis in my lower back (a disease) that is probably related to a motocross racing injury and an injury sustained in a fall from a horse.

My guess is that it must be possible for a horse to injure the navicular bone, possibly leading to navicular disease/syndrome.

JackieB, D.V.M. :) - Expanding out from law since times are tough.

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

That sounds about right JackieB.

[carla]

Thanks, JackieB. I guess I wasn't clear.. or maybe I was? To be more specific, if there is the possibility of just an "injury," I wonder what the chances are of it NOT developing into the syndrome/disease?

Oh- and good to see that you're broadening your horizons. Good move. :)

Diane- nope, not one that I know.. just an inquiry. But the "N" word (in the equine sense, lol) in the opening sentence of the reply email didn't impress me, lol.

[JackieB]

Well now I've only been a vet for a couple of days now and I got my degree through the mail from a school in Barbados, so take that for what it's worth. But I'd say that a horse with a navicular injury would be highly susceptible to developing navicular disease/syndrome. That bone is way inside the hoof capsule, quite small, and supports a huge amount of weight with that big tendon wrapped around it.

If a horse has a navicular injury, I'd be willing to bet that a vet would say that there is a high probability of navicular disease. I'm just guessing here, but it makes sense. I would guess that it's just about like an like an orthopedic surgeon could have told me at age 20 that I was likely to have arthritis at age 50 as a result of my injury. It's not possible for a horse to take it too easy on that bone. An owner could refrain from galloping a horse, warm up carefully to get that tendon flexing, and so on, but the navicular bone is still going to get stressed at least somewhat every single day.

I might be off base here. I'm just trying to think of this logically and consider the mechanics of how the coffin bone, navicular bone, and that flexor tendon work together.

[twofingers]

They are not the same thing, however the injury can lead to the re-occurrence or the "syndrome" the horse can step on a stone and bruise it's foot or a case of bursitis can cause the foot to pitch in such a way as to cause it.

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Diane- nope, not one that I know.. just an inquiry. But the "N" word (in the equine sense, lol) in the opening sentence of the reply email didn't impress me, lol.

Oh, was this on a horse you were checking out on line? Is that what you mean by the "email"

[HoustonFarrier]

That bone is way inside the hoof capsule, quite small, and supports a huge amount of weight with that big tendon wrapped around it.

Actually, the navicular bone (distal sesamoid) is NOT a supportive bone. It lies behind the coffin bone ,and under the short pastern bone. It is "wrapped" in a series of ligaments(Impar, DDF). The Deep Digital flexor runs UNDER the navicular bone and attaches to the back of the coffin bone. The navicular bone acts as a fulrum for the DFF during flexion of the coffin joint. There is also cartlige and a bursa sac invloved with the navicular bone as well. As any of you who have had shoulder pain from inflammed bursa sac, you KNOW(to some extent) what the horse feels when he/she is in navicular pain.

Also, navicluar disease is different than navicluar syndrome.

Steve

[JackieB]

Actually, the navicular bone (distal sesamoid) is NOT a supportive bone.

Thanks for clarifying, Steve. I guess I said that wrong. What I meant was that the navicular bone has to hold up to a lot of pressure. It's supporting the tendon that wraps around it, and when the hoof comes down, especially if it comes down with a lot of force, then the navicular bone would have a lot of force applied to it. Do I have that about right?

[JackieB]

Also, navicluar disease is different than navicluar syndrome.



Could you explain that for us? I was thinking that the two terms were synonymous. Thanks for your insight.

[HoustonFarrier]

What I meant was that the navicular bone has to hold up to a lot of pressure.
Exacta-mundo!!! Compression is the big "killer" of the navicular.

Could you explain that for us? I was thinking that the two terms were synonymous
As I understand it, (and I could be wrong) Navicular disease is when there is undeniable proof via x-ray of actual navicular bone damage/lesions/etc. Navicular syndrome is generalized pain in the caudal aspect of the hoof, with no KNOWN cause of the pain. Often times, when a vet cannot find the source of pain, it is generalized as navicular syndrome. Having the diagnosis of syndrome does not automatically mean the horse has or will get the disease. Often times, it is long toe/low heel or other trimming/shoeing problems combined with possible conformational tendencies.

Steve

[JackieB]

Thanks, Steve. Now that I read your description of the difference between disease and syndrome, it makes perfect sense.

[HoustonFarrier]

it makes perfect sense.

That happens every now and then :)

Steve

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

disease is an "actual"

syndromes are "symptoms" that relate to a disease

[carla]

Thank you so much, Steve! So basically, I now know enough to know that this is too "iffy" for my taste, lol. Which, as I had said, was my first thought. Good to know, though. Diane- yep, just an internet thing.. problem is, if I DID happen to find a horse I couldn't pass up, I just have NO idea where I would keep it!

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

Thank you so much, Steve! So basically, I now know enough to know that this is too "iffy" for my taste, lol. Which, as I had said, was my first thought. Good to know, though. Diane- yep, just an internet thing.. problem is, if I DID happen to find a horse I couldn't pass up, I just have NO idea where I would keep it!


Buck's Hollow just happens to have an opening.;)

[carla]

Buck's Hollow just happens to have an opening.;)


:clap::rant: Well groovy then! :D