Bit rant...

[dustys_girlly]

i was bored and looking at pictures on line. i came across some pictures of a person i use to know that trains with my old trainer. when i first started working with the trainer her motto with bits was that you did not need a bigger bit, you or your horse needed to learn how to use the one you had, normally a snaffle. after a while i guess she got lazy and the bits started getting bigger and bigger. then she became a bit fan of the "Wonder Bit" a three ring gag bit. but anyways, i found a picture of the person riding her horse then the trainer riding the horse (so she knows about it and probably was the one to put it together) doing a play day in a Wonder Bit and running martingale! i am not sure about everyone else but to me that seems really extreme. and the best part, the horses was still fighting it. if you need all that to get your horse to listen to you, you should not be considered a trainer and you should not be running in a play day. but that is my opinion.

But what does everyone thing of a running martingale being used with a gag bit?

[Cat]

I've never used a martingale or a gag bit, so I can't comment there. In fact, I'm not sure how a gag bit works. I've seen them, but I've never really understood the concept of them. Anyone want to explain?

[Palogal]

Gag bits are kind of overkill on their own so I imagine with a running martingale the horse is essentially hog tied.

[Annasmom]

wow. I agree with her old motto though.
I can ride in a halter , mccate , but I use a bit for "refinement" not for control.
thats mostly your bodies role.
Seems like your old trainer just wants $$$ nowadays

[luckydoublesranch]

In my opinion, Wonder bits and some other gags can be very useful and mild in the right trained hands for certain needs. There are alot of gags that are called a wonder bit that are not though. ie...large gag ring with 3 rings in a straight row as a shank.
My team penning horses run in a smooth mouth "Jr. Cowhorse" bit and some of our other horses use a "Camarillo Tender Touch". Both of these bits have a gag action. Although not nearly the action as a wonder bit. Alot of gags are really misunderstood and when let's say compared to the tom thumb snaffle are less severe. The tom thumb is probably in my opinion one of the most overused severe bits out there. It seems to be the bit of choice for newbies as it's advertised often as a "colt starting" bit and is common place in most tack collections. Saying all of this, the old addage that a bit is "only as severe as the hands working it" holds absolutely true! Only skilled hands should be using a bit such as a Wonderbit and only in certain situations. Our horses may use the T-touch or Jr. Cowhorse during a competition but will be schooled at home and ridden on the trail in a snaffle.
If I ever using a bit such as this it's only for a short time to get your desired result and back down we go to the least severe bit needed. A horse should always be ridden in the mildest bit possible to do the action intended. Obviously, all of your foundation work/starting and reschooling should be done with a D-ring type snaffle not any type of gag. You should be able to do every action with a snaffle bit before moving up to the next bit to fine tune your horse. You want to keep the mouth soft, but some horses definitely do respond better to a gag as it worked differently that a plain snaffle.
As for the running martingale. I would rather see someone using one 1000 times over before a tie-down. Tie-downs are just masking a problem while a martingale can be used as a tool to correct the problem. Alternatively, a German Martingale would be my choice over a running martingale.
I guess all in all, I would say I'd rather see the horse being gamed in a wonder bit and martingale over it being worked in a tie-down and some of those "barrel racing" bits that do indeed look like torture devices. :)

[dustys_girlly]

luckydoublesranch - i think one of my problems is that the rider is not a skilled rider and the horse is green. add the two together then the bit and martingale, it just did not work for me.

[luckydoublesranch]

luckydoublesranch - i think one of my problems is that the rider is not a skilled rider and the horse is green. add the two together then the bit and martingale, it just did not work for me.

Oooooo....definitely NOT cool then! :huh:

[luvs2ride1979]

Gag bits can be fine, running martingales can be fine, but IMO, they should NOT be combined... I was taught to only use plain ring type snaffles with running martingales or training forks. You can end up with WAY too much pressure on the mouth if you use a gag with one, as displayed by the still fighting horse...

Plus they kind of cancel eachother out; the gag pulls up farther into the mouth against the corners and the running pulls down on the reins, pulling the bit against the bars of the mouth. That's just not a good combination. It's got to be sending weird signals to the horse...

[mare]

This situation doesn't sound right, if they are both green, but I don't know them.

I used a Wonder bit on one mare that I have. It seemed to fit her best. She still neck-reined and wasn't hard to handle, it just seemed the most comfortable for her.

I used to exercise polo horses when I was a kid, and several of them were ridden in gags and running martingales during the chukkas. But when we were exercising, or hacking, we rode the same ones in ring snaffles with an occasional running martingale. I asked why the exercise riders didn't use the gags and the manager said, "Because none of you are good enough." Probably true. We were just willing to trot for miles for very little pay.

[natisha]

I love Wonder Bits, but only on a well trained horse that needs the least amount of control.
The mouthpiece sits low on the ring that the headstall is also attached to, when the reins are pulled or even picked up the mouthpiece slides up the ring which puts pressure on the poll. The mouthpiece only moves up depending on the amount of pressure put on the reins. The chin strap only comes into play if a lot of pressure is on the reins.
The sides on the bit are independent of each other unlike some other curb its where the whole bit always moves. This independent action gives the horse a clear signal as to what you want, much like a bit with swivel cheeks.
I only use this bit with loose reins on a neck reining horse. I found it to make some horses very responsive or give them a chance to be responsive. I had a friend try it on his horse & the horse totally ignored it.
I think this bit gets a bad rap due to the 'gag' name.

I see people using Kimberwick's all the time & they use those with constant contact! Much worse in my opinion than a bit that leaves a horse alone except to give it a light cue.
I agree it depends on the hands holding the reins & I would never advise a beginner to use one.

I would never use a martingale with any curb bit & I never use standing martingales or tie downs but then again I don't jump or barrel race so don't have an opinion there.

[Cat]

Thanks for the explanation on how the gag bit works. As to people using the kimberwicke with constant contact - what a shame. Despite its misleading look of a snaffle, it really is a curb and no curb should be used with constant contact.