I wonder- the story of the Lolo Trail, in pictures

[Lakota's Pet]

You are very welcome Mollie. I truely admire what you are doing, and think that things would be quite different if more people thought like you.

[mtnmollie]

Bent tree marker.

I first learned of bent tree trail markers from Montana Archilogist, Milo McLeoud, who spent two years intensily documenting the Lolo Trail in Montana. They are also documented in Tales of the Clearwater, page 93. Trees grow slow at this altutude this tree is 200 plus years old. There may be "talking rocks" on the trail at the base of the tree.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=265&pictureid=2417

[Gypsy Rose]

That tree is really interesting! Are there many of them?

[mtnmollie]

The Nez Perce also had "talking rocks," a written language useing the stones.

The talking rocks left different messages depending on how the stones were placed.

"Walter (Sewell) had crossed the old trail with Charley Adams, an old Indian, who showed him the signs left there and told him the meaning of them. The signs were arrangements of rocks to mean certian things. One of the most prominent signs consisted of three concentric circles of rocks about the size of footballs. The inner circle was about three feet in diameter, the next or middle ring, about twelve feet in diameter, and the outside circle about twenty feet in diamenter. .. " p. 80- 81 from Tales of the Clearwater by Sam Swayne.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=265&pictureid=2407

[mtnmollie]

That tree is really interesting! Are there many of them?


I think they are a rare find.

It is easier to find "talking rocks" than bent trees on the Lolo Trail on the Clearwater National Forest in Idaho.

And then, it is easier to find Indiian peeled trees (CMT's) or "talking trees" than "talking rocks," although in Hungery Creek a lost place; there may be more to find, than along the Lolo Trail road, which brings in more people traffic; because of easy motorized access.

[FrogInABlender]

Marking this thread for a later read. I'm a late-comer to the forum so I missed it when it first came out. Keep 'em coming Mollie! :)

[mtnmollie]

Hi Frog! I am glad you are enjoying my thread. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

There is a wrong trail sign, and a right trail marker. My rock marker pictures dont want to download- hubby Gene says may be I need to resize them before they leave my computer. ?

Talking rocks, talking trees and peeled trees?

I did not believe any of this, for I am old and set in my ways and much of this stuff is new to me or unknown. Much of it is also lost to the Nez Perce, but I found several, one or two, who know about rock trail markers and the "talking rock" written language of the Nez Perce people.

The wrong trail marker "was supposed to be a false trail marker designed to fool the enemy into taking the wrong ridge, " from p. 81 Tales of the Clearwater.

I followed the false trail, took the wrong ridge and got lost repeatedly.
I never knew it was planned- until this winter when I re- read Sam Swayne's book.
Dugh- getting lost is designed into the old Lolo Trail.

False Indian trail- or trail to no-where on the Lolo Divide. Trail dead ends in a saddle to the left center.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=214&pictureid=2231

[mtnmollie]

The branch trails off the Lolo Divide Ridge, which are so much apart of the old Lolo Trail have been left out of the re- done 1993 reduced Lolo Trail Landmark boundary. The Landmark boundary needs to be re-done to include known and un- known parts of the old Lolo Trail; which is not just one trail, but a trail network. The 1976 Landmark boundary was an average of 6 miles wide to include a nessaceary wilderness setting and un-known or lost trail segments in the Lolo Trail Landmark trail system. Even six miles wide is perhaps not wide enough to include the Lolo trail system of Indian traiils; which lead the travler from Lolo, Montana to Weippe, Kamiah, and Orofino, Idaho on more than one trail network.

The upcomming maps will explain this more clearly, for a picture is worth a thousand words.

[mtnmollie]

Here is a false map, or an inaccurate map of the Lolo Trail road. This map is promoting the Lolo Road- not the Lolo trail. I think we know the difference between the road and the trail. There is a noticeable difference in the past pictures in this thread. In Forest Service language, a road or trail may be one or the other or even both.

On the western end, Kamiah side the 'road" begins at mile marker 21. There are 3 historic branches of the Lolo Trail road on the western end of the Clearwater Forest. There are CMT's and old trail that should be protected west of Weitas Butte.

The Lolo Motor road (primitive jeep road) is also cut off on the east- towards Lolo Pass stopping on the map at mile marker 73. Lolo Pass is at mile marker 86 on the State Line divide ridge, between Idaho and Montana.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=265&pictureid=2409

[Gypsy Rose]

Oh, goody! Maps! I was about to go brain fried trying to visualize all this!

[Gypsy Rose]

I need to eat supper, but I will be back to study the map!

[PoniesRock101]

wow! very interesting! i'm skimming but i''m gonna read the erst in a little bit!

[mtnmollie]

Hi Ponie! Welcome to my campfire.



These are crappy general maps showing the center of the Lolo Trail, and cutting it off on the east and west ends. The Landmark has a history of being cut up- year by year.

I want the whole thing, and not just the center part.

All you get today are crappy maps- good detailed maps will come later.

:cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Crappie map number 2.

On this map the Lolo Trail appears to begin at Powell (you are here) at mile marker 73 and go west to Mex Mountain. But the Lolo Trail goes on to Weippe, Orofino and Kamiah on the western end. So this too is a general map showing the center section of the Lolo Trail road as the "Lolo Trail" according to the map legond. These maps are worthless for a pathfinder like me. For years I asked for detailed old Forest Service maps. One day I finally asked the right person. But I dont have them in a file- so I can't post them yet. I have to scan them or photograph them- so one day I wil get around to that; and show you a real map.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=265&pictureid=2411

[Gypsy Rose]

So the real trail goes quite a bit farther than the Forest Service wants the public to believe or see then?

[mtnmollie]

Well it depends. The Appaloosa ride starts at Musselshell- Western CNF (Clearwater Nat'l. ) Forest boundry, at mile marker zero. But it is hard for the public to find the trailhead, because it is not marked very well.

One guy wanted to follow ths Lewis and Clark 1805 route from Lolo Pass, but the Forest Service told him there was no trail.

But in 2002 the CNF went to Washington D.C. to ask for money to manage the Lolo Road? No the longest piece of intact trail tread (path) left in the nation followed by L. and C.

The trail/road is always moving, depending on management goals.

[Gypsy Rose]

Doesn't that cause a lot of confusion, so far as where the trails are, and what is designated as open or closed to the public?

[JackieB]

Hey! I thought I recognized a name on one of the maps from Norman Maclean's A River Runs Through It. So I did a little research and sure enough, this is the exact area where he worked one of his summers as a young man and that ended up in his magnificent book. Cool!

[mtnmollie]

Doesn't that cause a lot of confusion, so far as where the trails are, and what is designated as open or closed to the public?

Confusion is built into the Landmark by design.

Past history unravels modern confusion.

It is very simple for me, because I know the past.

I got the old maps. I know the trail before the road was built in the 1930's.
Sometimes to un- ravel today- we must start with yesterday.

This is why my High School history teacher, Jack Combs, said, the president of the United States needs to understand history to rule the nation.

I got out of a cult- which was plainly a cult- by studyng its history.

Sometimes when you look behind you can see ahead plainly.

[mtnmollie]

Hey! I thought I recognized a name on one of the maps from Norman Maclean's A River Runs Through It. So I did a little research and sure enough, this is the exact area where he worked one of his summers as a young man and that ended up in his magnificent book. Cool!

Hay- hay hay - now we are really famous. Undaunted Courage and a river-
We never got big crowds during the L and C bi- Centinneal though.

[qh trail rider]

Mtnmollie,
This is a pretty amazing thread. I was on vacation when it first started and then when I first read it, I thought it was going to be about how to post pictures. Boy, did that subject ever get changed! I guess I will have to apologize for not reading the whole thing until today. It takes me a while to get caught up after vacation and then I didn't realize just what this thread turned into. I spend way too much time on this dang computer and even then, I don't get a chance to read every thread. Job and home related work doesn't allow enough extra time to research the forum like I would like to do.

Anyway, I do admire your passion and the work that you do while trying to save the Lolo Trail. Your pictures are beautiful!

Last year, I was trying to get the word out to trail riders concerning the "Senate Bill S.2283 Preserving our Equine Heritage on Public Lands". This bill, which was basically a reintroduction on the old "Right to Ride" legislation, was read twice on Nov 1, 2007 and then referred to the Committee on Energy and Natural Resources. As best I can tell, that is as far as it has gone. More than likely, it will never go any farther unless it is reintroduced in the next congress.

We, as horse lovers and trail riders, do need to ban together and protect our right to have continued access to trails on public lands. This is so important! There are a lot of people in this country who don't want horses on public land. Some of the "tree huggers" would like to have trail riders and stock banned from wilderness areas and other public land trails. That senate bill would have helped keep trails open on public lands for use by horses and stock. If we don't stand up for ourselves and fight to keep trails open, someday our children and grandchildren may not have the privilege to go trail riding.

A fellow trail rider did her own little survey. After sending 75 e-mails asking everyone to send a letter concerning the closing of trails in the White River National Forest in CO, she did a follow-up e-mail to find out how many trail riders actually sent their letters. Only 8 responded! That's sad. No wonder our right to ride is being threatened. We don't stand up for ourselves.

Why should our legislators stand behind us if we don't make our voices heard? If trail riders don't show our support of our right to ride and fight to keep our trails open, then our state legislators will not realize the importance of it. In the past, there has not been enough response by the horse community. Did you know there are more people in the horse industry than the tobacco industry? We should be able to make a lot of noise. We need to join together and fight to keep our trails open. I have heard that a legislator remarked concerning the Right to Ride issue, "if trail riders don't care enough to write a letter to me, why should I care enough to support them".

So, Mtnmollie, can you supply a list of names and addresses where the forum members can write and show our support in the effort to save the Lolo Trail? Also, maybe give us a rough draft of what you would like us to say and include in our letters. Alot of us on the forum may never be able to ride the Lolo Trail ourselves, but we do need to support each other and make sure that all trails across our great country remain open. The way I see it, if we allow one trail to close, that is just adding more fuel to allow other trail access to be denied as well.

************************************************** **************

For an example, the following was the letter that I sent to all of my friends and forum members so they could use it to send to their senators when S.2283 was introduced last year. You are welcome to use any part of it.

******

Dear (your state senator)

Every year, a group of my friends go on horseback/trail riding trips in (your state), and to other states as well. We greatly enjoy these trips and are hopeful that we will be able to have the privilege to ride our horses across trails in this great country in the future. We experience views that we would not see from a highway. There are many places in our state and in this country that are only accessible from foot or horseback. Most of my friends are not hikers. We are horseback riders and hunters who use our horses to ride and pack into the backcountry areas. The vast majority of trail riders care greatly about the environment. Trail riding is our way of enjoying the beauty that this country has to offer and we don't want to spoil it for ourselves or for others. We feel it would be a great shame to be denied access to enjoy the beauty that this country has to offer to us, if we were not allowed to ride our horses on public lands in the future. What purpose would it serve to have public land that could not be enjoyed by the public?

Please note my support for S.2283 (Preserving our Equine Heritage on Public Lands). It is important to me and many of my friends and fellow riders that this bill receives your support and affirmative vote. The use of stock on our federal lands has a long tradition, stimulates economic activity and provides a unique opportunity for family recreation and a positive activity for our youth.

Horses have been a very important part to the United States history and economy. The most recent economic study done by Deloitte Consulting LLP for the American Horse Council Foundation in 2005, provides proof that the horse industry plays a very important part in our economy. Government officials and the public should be made aware of these facts. The study concludes that there are 9.2 million horses in the U.S. Out of those, 3,906,923 are used for recreation. That's over 42%!. So you must realize that the loss of stock use in wilderness areas would also have a negative impact on the economy. It is important that we be able to continue to ride on public lands, wilderness areas, national monuments, and other designated areas that are administrated by the National Park Service, and Bureau of Land Management, the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, or the Forest Service.

I am hopeful you will realize the value of this bill and vote accordingly. Please vote to pass "S.2283". Thank you.

Sincerely,

(your signature)

(Your name
and address)

************************************************** ***************

:cowboy: BTW, Elaine from Missouri does care! :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Hi Elaine, QH Trail rider-

I did not know where I was going when I started this thread. Sorry.

I can't keep up with the board either- so much here.

I am going to start a thread One letter each Friday, and we can
support trail riders across America who need letters.

I know we are looseing horse trails;
on every National Forest.


Thank you for your help.

We can make a difference.

In 1980's the CNF planned to gravel the Lolo Divide road and log the center section of the Lolo Trail. The Lewis and Clarkies wrote letters, and the project was canceled.

[JackieB]

I got out of a cult- which was plainly a cult- by studyng its history.


That's scary. I'm glad for you. Perhaps that's a story you will share with us someday, too?

[Gypsy Rose]

I agree with JackieB- that would be an interesting story!

[PoniesRock101]

Hi Ponie! Welcome to my campfire.



These are crappy general maps showing the center of the Lolo Trail, and cutting it off on the east and west ends. The Landmark has a history of being cut up- year by year.

I want the whole thing, and not just the center part.

All you get today are crappy maps- good detailed maps will come later.

:cowboy:

Thanks! i fell behind!

thanks for the maps. so much more thatn just FLAT land. a good change for me!

[mtnmollie]

I fell behind too. :cowboy:

So much going on on Bay's new board!

[gaited07]

I'm all for the support of our TRAILS. Just get me an address and off to the post office I go!

[mtnmollie]

Thanks Garited. I started a spinoff thread in One letter each Friday. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Reply from my forum friend on another board-



I love your posts, the photos are magical.

I was down by _____ , the river was quiet, clear and beautiful. I imagined what it must have been like for the Nez Perce to have such a huge range to live over.

Your trip is so awesome. You guys should write a book!!

Over Christmas I will be joining your group. Right now it's a bit hectic, but I do want to support the area.



I forget how awesome it is at the place where I live.

[Gypsy Rose]

That's because you see it every day- not that you don't appreciate it, but if you've never been somewhere, or get back after a long absense, it seems like a person sees thing with new or different eyes.

[Nudge_gurl58]

OMG wow I wish I had trails like that here! I would LOVE to ride Gypsee on something like that! hehe, but the best we have where we board is the road. :( You are soo lucky to be able to ride on that! :)

[PoniesRock101]

I fell behind too. :cowboy:

So much going on on Bay's new board!


I'm finally caught up! I never got a chance to finish reading until i forgot about this thread, and i just remembered it! lol

I still love all your photos MTM!

[JackieB]

Mollie needs to write some more installments for us. :)

[PoniesRock101]

Totally agree JackieB! :)

[mtnmollie]

Oh my- I forgot about this stuff... with so much other stuff happening in my life. :)

...to be continued. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

I'm finally caught up! I never got a chance to finish reading until i forgot about this thread, and i just remembered it! lol

I still love all your photos MTM!

Thank you. :cowboy:

I have to re- read about 4 pages a day and edit this stuff.
One gal on my dressage board read the whole thing at once- too much for me gulp.

[mtnmollie]

Mollie needs to write some more installments for us. :)

Why thank you Jackie. :cowboy:

This is a leader item for my book-
I wonder - the story of the Lolo Trail in pictures.

My lawyer advised I not publish my WHOLE book on line fer free. ;)

:nono:

I got a page ready program for Christmas...
I am half way to the finish line in this race you helped me run.

Of course Bay and Boy get a free gift copy- signed.

You all helped me edit ...
and get better. Thanks.

[Jump The Moon]

Beautiful pics :D
love them!

[mtnmollie]

Thanks!

I have a fan in England! Whoo- whoo. How cool is that? :cowboy:

[PoniesRock101]

aww... great about the book mollie! I hjavn't checked this in a while! :doh:

Hope your book is going well so far!

[mtnmollie]

Thanks! I need to limit my time on this board- it is addicting! :)

I tried getting a LOA- I need to go to D Boards annomonus class. :eek:

[Gypsy Rose]

Glad the book's coming along! I'd love to get a copy in print, someday- hate reading long periods on the puter, lol!

[PoniesRock101]

me and you both gypsy! I get headaches! Still excited about your book mollie!I guess i'll have to be patient.....