I wonder- the story of the Lolo Trail, in pictures

[mtnmollie]

But I wonder...
if I can post pictures? Hubby Gene and me.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/GeneMolliehorseback.jpg

[JackieB]

Looks like it to me! Cool photo. Thanks for sharing.

[mtnmollie]

Yee haw! Bay taught me how to do this a year or so ago on the old board.

Thanks Bay. Then I forgot how and pm's did not work... cry...
my dressage board reminded me though. The things we can learn from one another.

:)



Thanks Jackie. !

[mtnmollie]

Gene and Sandman-(Morgan) and me and Amanda (Morgan) up Kelly creek with dog Jake.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/GMSouthForkKellyCr.jpg

[mlle_beau]

Wow, that's beautiful. What state is that in?

[mtnmollie]

Central Idaho. Gene and Sunny on the old origonal Lolo Trail used in the Chief Joseph Nez Perce 1877 war.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/the%20Lolo%20Trail/P7280024.jpg

[WashingtonBay]

Terrific pictures! ~applause~! :D

[FatSpottedAppy]

Beautiful pictures! What nice scenery.

[Equine_Woman]

Oh my goodness!!! You ride in some beautiful country!!!!!! I'm always so jealous of all the other scenic places in the world. . .I really need to travel. Thanks for sharing those photos!! I love the one with the Mountain in the background!!

[cloedoll]

Looks like you can! Really pretty pictures, keep 'em comin'!

[Gypsy Rose]

What beautiful country to ride in! Thanks for sharing the pics.

[mtnmollie]

I love the one with the Mountain in the background!!

They dont call me Mountain Mollie fer nothing- LOL>

From the bottom of Fish Creek where the 3 mountians come together-

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/PagodaRidge-%20Hung2/P5110006.jpg

[mtnmollie]

...up the hill on the primitive Indian trail used by Lewis and Clark in 1805 and 1806

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/PagodaRidge-%20Hung2/P5110005.jpg

[mtnmollie]

...is Justa Dunn and Mac- my loose horse who follows like a dog.
(Sherman Ridge in background, behind the horses. )

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/PagodaRidge-%20Hung2/P5260045.jpg

[mtnmollie]

Churchill Clark, decendant of William Clark of the Lewis and Clark expedition, Pagoda Ridge 2006 on Gene's Morgan Sunny.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/PagodaRidge-%20Hung2/IMG_0791.jpg

[Cat]

Beautiful pictures! Love the last photo - was he in costume?

[mtnmollie]

We took Lewis and Clark re- inactors across the Lolo Trail in 2005 and 2006. Scott Mandrell started in Washinton D.C. in 2003. He was in his same (period) clothes in 2005- LOL.

[ImaBronsonBear]

Wow, what incredibly beautiful scenery! And it makes it even cooler that it has such historical significance. I've only ever been to the parts of ID around Boise, and it wasn't that pretty, but that is definitely somewhere i would love to ride.

[mlle_beau]

That looks like a trail rider's heaven! I've never been to Idaho but your pictures make me want to go there! :D

[mtnmollie]

Churchill Clark and Scott Mandrell (behind Church) at Packer Meadows in 2005.
My loose appy in center, me on left. Beginning our Lolo Ride, 2005. We just showed up and thier camp and said, "Do you want a guide? " You can't cross that trail without a guide, just like in 1805- 6 - the best you can do without a guide is follow the road.


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/P1010090.jpg

[mtnmollie]

That looks like a trail rider's heaven! I've never been to Idaho but your pictures make me want to go there! :D

My mother said Idaho is the best kept secret in the nation. :)
The last of the secret wild place.

[Blue]

Wow, I wish I could ride there! Awesome pics!

[mtnmollie]

Up the Fish Creek Trail we go-

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/P5290061.jpg

[mtnmollie]

Looks like you can! Really pretty pictures, keep 'em comin'!

Thanks Cloe, Glad ya all like my picts. :) From Mike's plane-

center ridge is Pagoda; Willow Creek left of Pagoda; Fish Creek toe of Pagoda; Lochsa big canyon on right. The trail goes 4 miles up Fish Creek- then climbs Pagoda Ridge.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/PagodaRidge-%20Hung2/DSCN0954.jpg

[mtnmollie]

Pagoda Ridge (a shoulder ridge) runs into Sherman Ridge, which runs left into the Lolo Divide Ridge. (not in picture.) The Lolo Divide is the ridge between the Lochsa River drainage, (far right in pict) and the North Fork river drainage, far left not in pict. We have some major big wild country here. I left the big city for this- he he. :)

[mtnmollie]

South of Fish Creek is timberland, north of Fish Creek is burned from the 1910- 1935 fires. It still has not recovered- southern slopes take longer to recover for they are hotter. The Forest Service is currently burning timber for "forest health?" They want to burn the timber left in the Fish Creek drainage. Silly them. They started fires up Willow Creek this summer. :eek:

What would Smokey the Bear say to this?

Times change and I am back in the dark ages I guess?
Stuck in the past with the rest of the historians maybe. :p

[Sparrk]

I mentioned this elsewhere......

.........but I would give anything to spend at least a week trailriding with you......

I've never seen you post pics before......and why the heck haven't you? (or have I missed it?)

I envy where you live!

[mtnmollie]

That other board was so cluttered I did not post there much. LOL>

I'm just re- learning this picture posting thing. :) I have been trying to put 2008 photos in photobucket and urgh! I know today I followed the steps- maybe i'll try at night?

( My computer was sick. )

[mtnmollie]

I mentioned this elsewhere......

.........but I would give anything to spend at least a week trailriding with you......

I've never seen you post pics before......and why the heck haven't you? (or have I missed it?)

I envy where you live!

Come and ride with me Spark. This thread is titled I wonder- if I can post pictures? because I try and try and can't pm Bay on that other board and am just lost.

So I ask - do pm's work - and no one answers. But today's a new day. :)

"Have I missed it?" My blog has my photobucket link. I bet ya could not find my blog though? www.reinersblog.com/mtnm

* Photobucket picture link is on first page- or last page- LOL>
of my blog. The first page becomes last, in a blog. *

[mtnmollie]

I've never seen you post pics before......and why the heck haven't you? (or have I missed it?)

I envy where you live!

Thanks! :) note to Mollie * 1) Go to photobucket- this takes lots of energy for a computer dummy. Now I have to relearn! 2) copy picts 3) tell story. I always told the story first before- and picts would maybe get posted- mostly not. :D *

Now I forgot what picture i got- he he Jay on the Lolo Divide Ridge, 2005.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/P1010037.jpg

[mtnmollie]

Scott and Church and Jay were our Lewis and Clarkies we guided across the trail.

The LoLo divide is small 6 to 7,000 feet compared to Colorado, 10 and 12,000 feet- but Idaho is tougher than Colorado, perhaps because our primitive Indian trails have not been up- graded to modern Forest Service grade? Looking from (unprotected) roadless across 3 hills to Lochsa drainage and into wilderness and Montana state line. How many miles across the Lolo divide viewshed? Thirty or more. Fifty or more, it depends on the ridge your on. The Lolo Divide is crooked like a snake- and full of mountains thet drop and climb.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/P1010017.jpg

[mtnmollie]

Scott then Travler, ( Hubby's horse) mollie and my top horse at the viewpoint where Lewis and Clark left the divide ridge and dropped into Hungry Creek.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/P1010082.jpg

[oursarge]

Beautiful pictures, I LOVE that scenery! It looks like heaven on earth. That photo from the plane is unreal. If I lived there I don't think I'd ever be in the house. I really do not like living in the east, I want mountains, big mountains! I hope you'll keep the pictures coming, I can live my dream through you.

[mtnmollie]

About 1/2 of the Lolo Trail and viewshed is uncompromised. The other 1/2 or so is logged, clearcut 75- 100 percent in some drainages, and burned. The Forest Service is beginning "fire management." They burned some of the viewshed in 2000, 2003, and some this year 2008; starting mid August. (I then prayed for rain, it came and the fires stopped. :D) Burning will increase every year; according to management. Smokey the Bear is putting out fires in California, and setting them in Idaho. Your tax money pays for the burns. All my ugly (burned and clear - cut ) forest picts have to be uploaed to photobucket. :D

They burned the trail this year, and in 2003; then in 2004 dumped trees in the Lewis and Clark also Nez Perce National Historic trails and/or Lolo Trail. All one and the same trail with 3 or more different names, on the Lolo Divide. All trail users must use the Lolo trail road near the 2003 Cayuse fire. Forest Service told me no one cares about the trail. Those are some of the problems I am facing, protectiong this part of our natioal heritage.

Clearcuts and fire are "forest health" and the pretty place of timbered watersheds with trees that range from 120- over 400 years old are not desireable in Idaho. If we can't log it we will burn it in this state. LOL> But I'm from Virginia and have a different 'normal? ' point of view. :D

Different strokes for different folks- I guess? Seems to me there is only one truth, but people dont always agree.

Today the Lolo Trail and viewshed are in danger from modern trail building projects, trail oblit (trees in trail) abandonment and neglect, motorized use in roadless, (four wheelrs and motorcycles) logging in roadless, and road building. Next is management fires- started by the Forest Service.

I am all for motorized use in the roaded developed part of the forest; but wild roadless is up for grabs in Idaho. In Oregon near Bend, all trails not in wilderness are multipule use trails open to horse, hikers, motorcycles and 4 - wheelers too. Quiet non- motorized trails are becoming harder to find. Threatened. Boy I'd hate to see Idaho get like the National Forest near Bend. And besides, the Lolo Trail and corridor really ought to stay wild.

At a 4- wheeler meeting in Orofino, Idaho, they said, Idahos wild place is our states greatest treasure. Treasure shoud be protected, right?

[mtnmollie]

Beautiful pictures, I LOVE that scenery! It looks like heaven on earth. That photo from the plane is unreal. If I lived there I don't think I'd ever be in the house. I really do not like living in the east, I want mountains, big mountains! I hope you'll keep the pictures coming, I can live my dream through you.

Thanks. God gave me a big gift when I came to Idaho, but also a big responsibility.

[mtnmollie]

Here we go- Lolo Divide about mile marker 66. :eek: before 1988 clearcuts in foreground, 2003 fire in background.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=50&pictureid=362

[mtnmollie]

Lolo divide about mile marker 68

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=50&pictureid=363

[mtnmollie]

They were never going to log the upper Lochsa drainage. (clearcuts in upper Lochsa.) They had a 6 mile wide Landmark boundary to protect a " neseccary wilderness setting and the lost segments of the Lewis and Clark Trail, that looked like game trails." They logged withint the 6 mile wide boundary, then reduced the boundary to 1/2 mile wide. The Lochsa Story, by Bud Moore- tells the history of how this area (Powell Ranger District) was logged for "forest health." The words seem to be right, but perhaps the actions need to change? Who knows that the Forest Service in central Idaho is burning timber today for forest health? Does America know that? Does America care?

[Mandzanita]

WOW!! Amazing pics :)

[mtnmollie]

Thanks Mandi! :cowboy:

[starkitten]

Absolutely beautiful place to ride :)

[Sundays Man]

I am green with envy. That is some beautiful country!!

[mtnmollie]

Yes, I forget how blessed I am to live in the wilds of Idaho. Its fun to share my world.

My forum friend wants to know, what a mile marker is? Oh thanks! I better explain that. LOL.

1866 Bird Truax mile markers for the Lolo Trail. Who was Bird Truax? Government contractor who cleared the Lolo trail in 1866, ten years before the 1877 war. They cleared a corridor 10 - 12 feet wide which can still be seen in places today on the old Lolo Divide.

The Lolo Trail mile markers start at Mussellshell, western end of Clearwater Nationzl Forest and go to Lolo Pass, 85 mile marker. Gene and I have a book on Amazon, Bitterroot Crossing, Lewis and Clark across the Lolo Trail, which is full of historic background for the trail. We have a research library-ian at the University of Idaho helping supply us with lost historic background. I figured out bird Truax mile markers from Bird - Truax's old book Dennis re-published (now out of print.) Bird - Truax mile markers match todays road miles very closely- but not exactly. Some places the road is longer than the trail, seeking a better grade in some places.

[mtnmollie]

Wow, I wish I could ride there! Awesome pics!

Thank you guys for your comments. Lolo Trail near Lolo Pass (mile marker 84-85?) abandoned (no use) since 1910- 1920. See the trail corridor (lane)? See the single path trail? This is being managed in "self discovery." No Forest Service trail work; open to the public. (But its hard to find.)

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=67&pictureid=443

[mtnmollie]

Beautiful pictures, I LOVE that scenery! It looks like heaven on earth. That photo from the plane is unreal. If I lived there I don't think I'd ever be in the house. I really do not like living in the east, I want mountains, big mountains! I hope you'll keep the pictures coming, I can live my dream through you.

Thank you! Thank Mike the plane man. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Riding with the Nez Perce 2008 we went to the secret place. No one knew how to get here but hubby Gene. We learned Nez Perce History and culture here.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=435

[PaintedLady]

Bird - Truax mile markers match todays road miles very closely- but not exactly. Some places the road is longer than the trail, seeking a better grade in some places.
Thank you so much for that explanation. Cuz when you first started talking 'mile markers', my brain went......HUH???:innocent:

[Syble413]

Love the 2nd picture! It looks as if we are looking through a window & are actually there. (Hope that makes sense)

I would also like to add that I love the picture quality on this forum! I can really tell a difference in the photos----thanks WB

[mtnmollie]

I stole this off the old forum while downloading picts. he he

Labor Day weekend we rode the old Lolo Trail with the Nez Perce, Indian decendenets of the 1877 War. Wow. It was awesome. Its been a dream of mine to get the Nez Perce youth back on their old trail; an anchent trail as old as time. This is our second ride of about 20 riders and 40 campers on the old Nez Perce Trail; 2006 was our first Nez Perce Appaloosa Horse Club trail ride here. We visited old Nez Perce sacred sites, prayed for peace and healing of wounded hearts, and found unity among mankind from different races and heritage, and background. It is always awesome to ride with the Nez Perce people.

General Sherman said of this trail, “Its the worst trail in America, for any man or beast. ” Harpers Weekly called it the “Dead Mule Trail” as General Howard left cannons, bacon ,and mules behind as he stumbled and fell along the Lolo Divide in the vast Bitterroot Mountains of central Idaho and Montana. The Nez Perce people seeking freedom and peace began their great march to northern Montana, where some made it to Canada. Some were taken captive to Okalahoma, and a few made it back to the homeland in Idaho. The land taken from Chief Joseph’s people in Oregon is still held by the whites. The 1877 War is studied in the history books and war tactics manual at the US. military acadamy in Colorado Springs. The Chief Joseph Appaloosa Ride follows the corridor of the old war trail traveling from Joseph Oregon to Bear Paw Mountans, in a 13 year cycle, covering about 100 miles a year the third week of July each year.

The Landmark Lolo Trail is part of the Nez Perce National Historic Trail from Lolo Montana to Kamiah, and Orofino Idaho. This 150 mile segment of the Nez Perce National Historic Trail is on the old Nez Perce Reservation, the first reservation before their land was reduced. The current treaty rights allow the Nez Perce people to hunt fish, travel and camp on their old hunting grounds. We traveled the old trail used in the 1877 war that few will ever see. Its an awesome place, and not for the faint of heart.

[mtnmollie]

Love the 2nd picture! It looks as if we are looking through a window & are actually there. (Hope that makes sense)

I would also like to add that I love the picture quality on this forum! I can really tell a difference in the photos----thanks WB

The second pict on pg 4 or on pg one?

[mtnmollie]

Thank you so much for that explanation. Cuz when you first started talking 'mile markers', my brain went......HUH???:innocent:

Thank you PL fer yer help. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

The Lolo trail road- single vehicle jeep road on Lolo divide ridge. I'm hiding behind Travler- looking down. Gene takes pists as we are unprepared; one ingrediant for sucessful photography. Mac's sturrips are up because they fall off - I did not want to loose the stirrups off my bronc saddle I have owned since I was 13. Now i am 55. The phots would of been better with the stirrups down. I need that keeper strap at the bottom. I bought some but can't find them- LOL. Near Noseeum- mile marker 32+

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=498

[mtnmollie]

Appy Lady said-

Sounds like a great ride!

I've been on the Chief Joseph Trail Ride twice -- once over the Lolo Trail, and the following year through the Bitterroot Valley. We're planning to make the ride next summer, which I believe will go through the Big Hole Battlefield.

Should be fun!

_____________________________

-- Shirley

You dont really ride the old origonal Lolo trail on the Chief Joe ride. you miss alot on the Lolo Divide road- the Forest Servide told the Chief Joe riders at mile marker 33 to stay on the road- do not leave the road. The road is not the trail. :cowboy:

Pay attention to the little things.

[mtnmollie]

Nothing like a good horse to make the heart happy. NP ride 2008

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=514

[mtnmollie]

... single path old Lolo Trail- Nez Perce ride 2008 mile marker 43+

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=436

[mtnmollie]

more from the old board -

The Forest Service has really promoted the Lolo Trail road (Lolo Moterway- dirt road) but not much has been published in recent history about the Lolo Trail. Historical accounts have been gathered together in Lynn and Dennis Baird's book In Nez Perce Country Accounts of the Bitterroots and the Clearwater after Lewis and Clark. Many accounts from the 1877 war are in this book.

The Appaloosas on this trip are from old Nez Perce lines. They are tough, and full of endurance. Most people ride with me only once- but not the Nez Perce. We followed the old trail abandoned by the Forest Service, with downed timber from 80 years of no maintance. We laughed as we stepped over small downed trees, one foot high- and recalled Howard's comments about how he had to cut the trail out to follow the Nez Perce. These trees were just like unevenly spaced cavaletti. We had one rider who had never ridden, and girls with cut faces who never complained. Watch those tree brancehs on non- maintained trails.

Some places the old trail was a single path knee deep ditch, from the thousands of horse who traveled to the buffalo country. Some places the trail is no longer visable- a ghost trail- from lack of use. Some places the Forest Service has placed logs and branches in the trail to discourage use. "Arron, see that cut log in the trail? " Yes. "That's Forest Service " trail obliteration" praject."

"But this is the Nez Perce Trail" Arron replied.
Yes, and it is a National Historic Trail, and you can't keep the Nez Perce people off of it; because of their treaty rights. The Lolo Trail is also a National Historic Landmark. During the 2007 Chief Joesph Appaloosa Ride the Forest Service kept the riders on the Lolo Divide road, but I ride the old trail every chance I get. If we dont use it- we loose it. From mile marker 49 for a short ways (15 minutes) the old trail is no longer visable, its a ghost trail, but my horse knows where the old trail path was still visable in 2005. The old Lolo Trail is an awesome place.

Jack gathered plants. He gave us cows- cow- Big Medison. You dry it and flake it into coffee. Gene and I both got a root.

Bigfoot came to our camp twice, maybe 3 times. Most Americans never heard of the big ape- some believe he is a demon- many fear him- once they see him. He thumped on a tree above our camp at Howard Camp- tap- tap- tap- at 2 AM. He reached in my horse trailer and ate dog food at Sherman Saddle Camp. One dog barked once- bark- and quit. Even the dogs respect Bigfoot. I have never seen him, but I have heard him, on different trips to the Bitterroot Mountains.

[Sparrk]

Nothing like a good horse to make the heart happy.


I hear ya!

I have an old trusty trail horse and then have just started riding a green horse. For awhile now, I'm been saying "its time to retire her and get a young one", but you know what? When I feel like going for a nice trail ride, I grab my old mare and away we go!

I showed my mom your pics and she's dying with jealousy too!

[mtnmollie]

" No one cares about the Lolo Trail. " Forest Service Powell Ranger; Chad Benson.

What do you say to that, people? Do you think that true?

[sugarsgirl]

Those are great pictures :)

[mtnmollie]

" No one cares about the Lolo Trail. " Forest Service Powell Ranger; Chad Benson.

What do you say to that, people? Do you think that true?

But nobody answered my stupid question. I dont ask stupid questions because I am stupid- I am building a case- with the Forest Service. I gained one inch this summer with the Forest Service.

I want to get back to them and tell them, but Diane in Bucks Hollow, Gerogia cares about this national treasure. And my frined in Texas and.. but my cup is almost empty. No response. whine.

On the clearcuts - I expected some wow! Man thats alot of clearcuts. Where will we get timber for our future- aren't we supposed to be manageing for sustained yield not cut and run? Sustained yield means you can harvest your corn on an annual year to year basics. It takes a 100 years or more to grow a tree in Idaho. Take ten percent every ten years might help, to manage a timber crop on Fedearal land. Some National Forests are just tree farms; timber forests they call them. All there Forest budget (our money) goes into road building. The St. Joe North of the Clearwater was such a forest. It was roaded and logged to such an extent- there was no backcountry horse patrol on that Forest for the Fish and Game - Game Warden.

[mtnmollie]

Those are great pictures :)

Thank you, Sugargirl! :cowboy:

[Gypsy Rose]

Oh, wow! I didn't catch that you put up more pics!

I've always wanted to visit the mountains- the closest I've gotten is the Black Hills, lol!

Looks like you have very beautiful places to ride.

What really gets me is basically the same thing you've been talking about- we're losing more and more of our wild areas, all in the name of progress.

Someday, I hope to at least be able to see the Rocky Mountains. If the government has their way, someday, all that beautiful country might be lost forever.

[mtnmollie]

Thank you GR. Great post. I try to add one pict a day. Some days I add more than one.

[Toodlestoo]

Absolutely beautiful pictures. I'm so jealous. We have some nice trails here but can't begin to compare to yours. Keep them coming.:)

[mtnmollie]

Thanks toodles!

But nobody answered my stupid question.

What stupid question? Go back and find it... :cowboy:

[PaintedLady]

Buttt...at the rate we're going....we NEED our trees!!! (Guess I never thought about annual yield versus the time it takes to grow a tree!!)

[mtnmollie]

yeah ! A response! oh- oh happy dance! :cowboy:

Do trees help us to breath? What do trees do for us? Just make shade?
In 1930 one Mile square clearcuts were bad timber mangement. Why is that good timber management today?

[mtnmollie]

" No one cares about the Lolo Trail. " Forest Service Powell Ranger; Chad Benson.

What do you say to that, people? Do you think that true?

Here's my stupid question. :cowboy:

[PaintedLady]

Ask and ye shall receive. ;)
Oh gosh YES, trees help us breathe! They are easy on the eyes, provide a welcoming cool shade...not to mention lumber for all our projects (don't forget barns and stalls and BEDDING!) paper so we can leave notes...uhm...what else.....

[mtnmollie]

clic- click for you clicker trainers. heres' yer treat. (sorry for the delay. Hubby made me get off the computer so he could make a phone call. )

Lewis and Clark went to where the ridge terminated. Terminated means end, right? Not continue on. Gene and Mollie with Oakie and Jeb.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/P1010094.jpg

[mtnmollie]

oops. Sorry about teh size. All my photobucket photos should be resized. ?

[Gypsy Rose]

Look at that view!

I really have never understood why it seems that so few people in power care about our natural resources.

Don't they realize that once they're gone, the world will be an empty, barren place?

Where will we get water if it's all contaminated? Trees help clean the air, provide shade, and carefully managed, should provide us with paper, furniture and other wood products for an indefinite period of time.

It's all the mismanagement, without regard to what indiscriminate tree harvest does to the land or how long it takes for trees to grow, that is one of the biggest problems I see. That and the loss of land to the government for development.

[mtnmollie]

PL answered 2 questions; Right? Jack Yearout , Bald mtn NezPerce Ride 2008. These Appys are from old NP lines. If you google Idaho, Appaloosa, Yearout - I bet you get their web site. Rosa, Jack's mom, is a decent of 1877 war survivors, and is related to Chief Joseph band. She has a gentle and quiet spirit.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=434

[mtnmollie]

Thankyou for your reply Gypsy Rose. click /click or c/c treat

This is the 40 Ridge, mile marker 6 - 11 on the Lolo divide spur ridge. This is prime timber country, but these trees were not logged because they are too small-only 100 years old. See the 10- 12 foot wide lane? Do you think that maybe this is the 1866 Bird /Trusx lane? See the single path on the Lolo divide ridge- just where the 1866 map says it is? do you suppose this is the origonal trail? (The Forest Service say the trail moves all the time.) The Chief Joseph Appy ride for years climbs this same trail, on this same ridge. Shirley A/L was here. Justa Dunn and Sunny - back when he was buckin (a little) and we was skeered to ride him.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=66&pictureid=457

[magayle]

:cool:what a beautiful place to live...thanks for all the pics

[mtnmollie]

Your very welcome, my friend Magayle. :)

The last Chief Joe Appy ride did not climb over the top of Bald mtn, but the one before it did. Bald Mtn is the 37 mile marker.

[rums_mom]

Mollie.......bless you for keeping the Lolo trails alive. You tell that yahoo at the forest service. that Mary in North Carolina cares...............and would one day love to see the Lolo Trail for herself, to go where the Nez Pierce have gone with her friend Mollie.

It is not a stupid question, I am still finding my way around the new forum and totally missed this post until now. That one picture you posted with the prime timber, I swear I can smell the pine...............your descriptions of the trails and stories of the people you have ridden with are wonderful. I have to admit, I am not that familiar with Idaho. I have traveled all over the continental US but never have gotten that far North West. Been to WY, CO, NV, CA, AZ, NM, TX, NE, MO, IL, IN, OH, NY, WV, VA, TN, KY, SC, AL, MS, FL, LA, GA, and of course NC. Did I foget any? ;) For now, I will visit these wonderful places through you, your words and your pictures. I am so glad you have come down from the mountain and joined the forum!:clap:

The BLM has raped the land. Giving mineral rights to big corporations so that they can drill on private property, and the land owners can't do anything.

Cutting the tops off of mountains in WV to get the fossil fuel out, then leaving the destruction for the future, possibly forever.

[mtnmollie]

rumsmom-thank you for your reply. I can't keep up with this board and i can't keep staying on here day and night- LOL. so much to see and do here. :cowboy:

Your reply grabbed the strings of my heart. "Giving mineral rights to big corporations..." So sad. We cut our future, and put our local families out of work. So sad.

The government giving America away and she belongs to us. Or she once did belong to us. ...and we pay for it. phooey.

So the glass is half empty- but the glass is half full.

Big government will ruin us all- we need to make the government small.

[mtnmollie]

Jackie B said- (from old house) "Wow, this is fantastic, mtnmollie. I can't wait to see the photos.

I encourage anyone who has an appaloosa, but especially young people, to learn about the Nez Perce Indians, Chief Joseph, and the Chief Joseph Ride. I'd love to do a section of it someday, but I'd have to borrow and appy from someone since Buster is all QH.

It's wonderful that the Nez Perce are rediscovering their great historic connection to their magnificent horses. "

Yes, because horses heal wounded hearts. Reservations are full of problems. It is a thrill to get the Nez Perce kids in the footsteps of their ancestors.

[JackieB]

Wow, mtnmollie! I just spent the last half hour working through this thread. I am so grateful that you have chosen to share these photos and experiences with us. Such a treasure!

I plan to come back to this thread again and again and enjoy each photo and story. And someday, I hope to visit the ancestral lands of the Nez Perce Indians myself.

I recognized the Yearout name immediately. I discovered their website and effort to help reintroduce the Nez Perce Appaloosas many years ago.

Bless you for caring so much about this beautiful wilderness. You may certainly tell the forest service ranger that Tom from Michigan cares about preserving this land.

I have to ask you. How does the special relationship you share with the Nez Perce influence your thoughts on the Indian Wars of the 19th Century? Should the U.S. have developed enough of a "conscience" by the time in its short history to be able to see that evicting the Nez Perce from their lands was a grevious error? Or were our actions really no worse than what any humans tend to do to one another, which is conquer and subdue on another?

I nearly got chills when reading of the deep trail forged by Appaloosas over generations of buffalo hunting.

[mtnmollie]

"Should the U.S. have developed enough of a "conscience" by the time in its short history to be able to see that evicting the Nez Perce from their lands was a grevious error? Or were our actions really no worse than what any humans tend to do to one another, which is conquer and subdue on another?'

Wow. My heart answer to that question is reliogus and not popular. Read the book of Jeremiah. Why did God judge his own people? How did God judge them? Did God change or stay the same after Jesus came?

[mtnmollie]

Wow, mtnmollie! I just spent the last half hour working through this thread. I am so grateful that you have chosen to share these photos and experiences with us. Such a treasure!


I nearly got chills when reading of the deep trail forged by Appaloosas over generations of buffalo hunting.

Isn't that cool? Yes such a treasure! Glad yah liked it Tom.

[valleyrider]

Great pictures and beautiful country. It looks real peacful

[mtnmollie]

Thank you Valley Rider. :cowboy:

[Gypsy Rose]

Ann from Minnesota cares what happens to our beautiful wilderness, as well.

Tell those Forest Service Rangers what all of us think- I believe they get immune to the beauty around them, and are too quick to cave in to Washington's demands- people who sit behind a desk, and have probably never seen America's real treasures.

[mtnmollie]

That is true Ann. They manage from an office desk.

Jackie B said- "I nearly got chills when reading of the deep trail forged by Appaloosas over generations of buffalo hunting."

Single path knee deep trail ditch at Packer Meadows; hubby Gene and Norm Miller hike. Norm called from Montana for a map of the trail. (Modern trail map not availabe to the public.) We told him he would get lost without a guide- and we'd have to find him because we are in Search and Rescue. We guided him; we can hike with our friends in the National Forest; but we can't outfit (get paid for services) without a licence and control. This trail ditch has been abandoned for a least a 100 years. We ride beside it- its too deep and soft (wet meadow) to ride in it. You can't find this place without a guide. The public is keep out of here.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=67&pictureid=437

[Gypsy Rose]

Let's hope it stays that way!

[mtnmollie]

That's why we formed the Friends of the Lolo Trail non- profit. To protect and preserve the old Lolo Trail. Hay- I'm going to go start a online group- LOL> :cowboy:

edit- the group is started PL.
Go to my profile.

see group box on right coloum?

click on - join social groups

Enter the Baywood Farm secret room. hehe

[PaintedLady]

I have to admit that until you started talking (and showing pictures), I'd never ever HEARD of Lolo Trail. I'm probably not the only one, either. :rolleyes: Let us know when you start this group, because that area is breath taking!
And that leads to my next question. Are you Native American? Because....you are mighty devoted....or...is that because you already see the 'writing on the wall'....:eek:
Sure hope you don't mind me asking. :innocent:

[mtnmollie]

My family is from the Shandoah Valley of (w.) Virginia (the Yankees stole part of Virginia during the Civel War.) They have lived there since America was born. WE are Scottish, German, and English. Twenty years after we settled in the Valley the Indians came. They would smash our babies on cabin doors. They came from Georgia on foot- on those old single path Indian trails. Wars were only fought in summer months. We had to hole up in the Fort- and gardening was tough.

If you go back far enough one McDonald went west- and married a Fladhead. Duncon McDonald the half flathead, is my link to family Native American blood. ( but that was3 generations or more before I was ever born- a far branch of my family tree.)

God gave me the assignment to save the Lolo trail-and its too big an assignment for little ole me. I never figured out why neither- because God is into people- God loves people more than anything- he is not into trails. is he?

Thats my heart answer- but its not allowed to talk about these things- everyone has different beliefs. Dont we?

[mtnmollie]

Horace Axtell loves the old Lolo Trail. He is Nez Perce spiritual leader (7 Drums path) following the old ways of NP faith. I met him at Beaver Dam Saddle- he was gathering plants and he taught me how and why of what he was doing. ( He shared his heart with me. ) This is because I talk heart ot heart- and not face to face. Dont know if you know the difference.

Horace said " I followed the Lolo Trail many years ago; then I went back and something was wrong, but I did not know what. "

"I know whats wrong," Horace, says I. And I showed him.

He said, "I know what you say is true because I have seen it with my own eyes. "

What did I show Horace at Beaver Dam Saddle?

[Syble413]

They came from Georgia on foot- on those old single path Indian trails. Wars were only fought in summer months.

We sometimes ride in the Chatahoochie National Forest in GA. Does it connect to the Lolo trail? The reason I ask is that I have often heard about a trail heading north from our area that was the route the indians took on the "Trail of Tears". They say you can ride for hundreds of miles up the Blue Ridge Mountains.......I dream of doing that one day.:) I suppose I should brush up on my history & geography....

[mtnmollie]

If all Indian trails connect, from all over the North American conetent- then yes- it connects. I rode in the Blue Ridge Mtns- but I never kenw about (preserved) Indian trails back east.

The Lolo Trail runs from Lolo, Montana, (near Missoula) to Kamiah and Orofino- west on to Lewiston, Idaho on one old map.

edit- the route the indians took on the "Trail of Tears".
My family knitted some caps for the babies heads. Keep off the cold may save a life.

Sometimes a little is a lot. (Cloe does not know that yet- LOL ) :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Gaited asked- What trail is this one that you speak of?

The Lolo Trail, from Lolo Montana, near Missoula west to Kamiah, Orofiino and on to Lewiston Idaho on some old maps. This trail is as old as time.

[Remali]

My jaw just dropped to the floor......the photos are breath-taking.....and I love reading about it! I love trees, and the mountians, and I love history, especially Native American history! Thank you for posting this.....I wish there were more people like you out there who cared about our natural resources.....Americans have to wake up and realize what is happening to our lands. How I wish I lived out there!

[TBgirl]

Loved all the pics! They are so beautiful! It looks like Idaho is a really nice place to live. I didn't read all the replies, so forgive me if anyone already asked...but what is the weather like there (generally)??

[mtnmollie]

Our rain is wetter than anywhere I have lived- which is California to Virginia and overseas. What does that mean? It means if you want to stay dry- wear 2 good/expensive raincoats- LOL

"My jaw just dropped to the floor......the photos are breath-taking"

Wow! Thanks Renee. :cowboy:

[vicklynn]

Wow, those pics are wonderful. I was skimming page by page to see them, didnt read the posts...lol
Great Lolo trail.

[mtnmollie]

When I went on the trail with the Nez Perce in 2008, I learned the story of the Grizzly Bear again. Our logo - Lolo Trail Friends logo- has a grizzly on it because of this story.

The Grizzly bear first showed the Lolo Trail to the Nez Perce. The Nez Perce call it the Nez Perce Trail, the Nee-Me- Poo or the trail up there, (on the Lolo Divide) or the trail to the buffalo, in Montana.

but someone "didnt read the posts...lol"

How will you answer my stupid questions then?

1) In the beginning of time, who showed the trail to the Nez Perce?
2) Who was Bird - Truax? What date?
3) Who cut a 10 - 12 foot lane in the timber? When? Can it still be seen today?
4) Is the Lolo Trail a single path trail? ...or many paths like a passing lane on a highway?
..or like a wide sheep drive?

[mtnmollie]

Yeah! Gypsy Rose took my stupid question quiz in general and she got an a plus! Whoo - whoo!

Happy dance! G/r just made my heart sing! Thank you! :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Fake trail. What is a fake trail? The Forest Service sometimes builds trails in the Lolo Trail Landmark corridor- confusing peolpe about the location of the origonal. I call this painting over the top of the Mona Lisa. Antique furniture is valueable because it is old. Fake antiques look old.

Mollie on Boone. Travlers ears looking at the fake or fraud trail. If you pay for a fake- it is fraud. Right? ...or am I confused on my terms here?

You can see me thinking. If this is the fake trail, where is the real trail? We have spent 8 or 9 years sorting this out.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/PA150005.jpg

[mtnmollie]

Gene and Jeb- lookng for the origonal Indian trail- that matches the journals of Lewis and Clark. The Lolo Trail Landmark boundary was 6 miles wide in 1976- to account for a nessaceary wilderness setting, and a few lost segments of the Lewis and Clark trail.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/P1010038.jpg

[Dixie]

Wow. What a wonderful thread this has been. Took me forever to read all the pages but it was so worth it. Thank you for the pics and info.

[mtnmollie]

Your welcome Dixie- and thank you. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

How far can you see? Looking south into the Selway- Bitterroot wilderness- and then the Frank Church south of that. The 3 trees point to the close ridge, which is Indpendance ridge, named by Bird- Truax 1866. You are standing on Lolo Divide, which swings left in a horseshoe, goes over the top of Indpendance Ridge, (where Lewis and Clark camped in 1806,) and then the ridge swings east towards Lolo Montana. "How do you find the trail," asked Margaret Moses, "in such big country?" Easy find the Lolo Divide ridge, and look for the single path trail. Once you find the Divide, locating the trail is rather simple, if you re a pathfinder.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=50&pictureid=367

[mtnmollie]

Hubby Gene at CastleRock- mile marker 42 at a rare 360 degree view sweep from the Lolo Divide. Gene is looking north into the North Fork Drainage all the way to the Mallard Larkins or St. Joe Divide. Bird Truax named Castle Rock.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/P1010028.jpg

[FoxFireEMT]

Wow they are beautiful pictures & the landscape is just awesome!! Thanks 4 sharing!

[mtnmollie]

You are welcome Foxfire. Glad you like them. :cowboy:

[Gypsy Rose]

Wow! What a view! It would be a shame to lose the wilderness to progress. Someday, I would like to see this place, lol!

[Sparrk]

Just saying, I'm still here, following along, enjoying the history and pictures.

[gaited07]

rumsmom-thank you for your reply. I can't keep up with this board and i can't keep staying on here day and night- LOL. so much to see and do here. :cowboy:

Your reply grabbed the strings of my heart. "Giving mineral rights to big corporations..." So sad. We cut our future, and put our local families out of work. So sad.

The government giving America away and she belongs to us. Or she once did belong to us. ...and we pay for it. phooey.

So the glass is half empty- but the glass is half full.

Big government will ruin us all- we need to make the government small.


I agree with this. So much of our land is being scraped clean and housing, commericial building is established. It makes me sick to see my trails being gobbled up and turned residential or just plain CLOSED!


Just to say, MtnMollie, Awesome adventures and pictures. I might have to load up and visit you!

[Country Girl 43]

What beautiful scenery! I love it!

[mtnmollie]

" I might have to load up and visit you!" Ya all come!

Mtn Mollie and Churchill Clark on the paint, Bald Mtn, Lolo divide, 2004. One can see all the way to the Oregon state line, just across the Snake River from Idaho.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/the%20Lolo%20Trail/P1010061.jpg

[mtnmollie]

What beautiful scenery! I love it!
Thankyou, CG. Our beutiful scenery is one of the values we are supposed to protect in the Lolo Trail Landmark.

" The scenery , as observed from the higher peaks, is unsurpassed. From Grand View Mountain one looks down, at the right, upon the plain of the Cloumbia, it is far below, green as a meadow and streaked by intersecting canons margined by trees. In the far southwest are seen the snowcapped mountains of the Grande Ronde ..." pg 64, 65, with Bird and Truax on the Lolo Trail, reprinted and edited by Dennis Baird. 1999.

[mtnmollie]

G/R- "Wow! What a view! It would be a shame to lose the wilderness to progress. Someday, I would like to see this place, lol! "

Yes it is part of our National heritage. Unfortunatly some logging has occured inside the Landmark boundary.

Forest Service land behind this sign. Notice the steep slope. Notice the weeds instead of timber, just behind the sign. Notice the lack of regrowth in a clearcut that was harvested before 1988.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=50&pictureid=366

[mtnmollie]

The Lolo Trail is a knee deep ditch in places, but it is a shoulder deep ditch here. (I dont hunt, but I wear orange during hunting season.) Notice Jeb in back on the run. We found this piece of Lolo trail from getting gps points off an old map and going to the field. Milo McLeoud found the old maps precisely pin-pointed the trail in Montana. Same for Idaho. We are 15 miles east of Musselshell, at the Kamiah crossing of the old Lolo trail. Quote Howard. " We found an abrupt decent at the Lolo fork; none but old fronteersman and Indians could ride down, so we slipped and slid, fell, and scrambled up again, The pine trees were abundent, and, most of the way, filled in with a thick underbrush. pg 175, Nez Perce Joseph, by O.O. Howard, 1881, Boston, Lee and Shepard Publishers.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/the%20Lolo%20Trail/P1010054.jpg

[mtnmollie]

There is a single path trail and a lane through the timber; old origonal Lolo trail 40 Ridge segment, open to public, maintained by Forest Service since 1905.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=66&pictureid=448

[mtnmollie]

mile marker 19 - This is an abandoned segment of trail said to be in self discovery, non- existant, under the Lolo divide road, or impossible to find. It is right on the backbone of the Lolo Divide ridge. single path, ditch in places.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/mtnmollie/the%20Lolo%20Trail/PA090006.jpg

[NJrider]

Wow, this is my first time visiting this thread. Mollie your pictures are stunning. Sad to say I did not know of the Lolo Trail either. Thank you for the education!

[mtnmollie]

If you go to the Stupid question quiz for Saturday thread, you will find how the Forest Service defines the Lolo Trail.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413

[mtnmollie]

Wow, this is my first time visiting this thread. Mollie your pictures are stunning. Sad to say I did not know of the Lolo Trail either. Thank you for the education!


You bet! Glad you are here. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Besides the 1) view, 2) wilderness setting, 3) origonal single path trail, old corridor, the the other thing to protect in the Landmark is the peeled trees. The Nez Perce peeled trees, some are standing dead, some are still alive, and some have been logged, espically on the eastern and western end of the Landmark, by the Forest Service. Timber ran the forest in those days, said Dwane Annis, retired. Everybody makes mistakes. Perhaps a watchdog needs to assure no more mistakes occur in the future?

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=67&pictureid=446

[mtnmollie]

Just saying, I'm still here, following along, enjoying the history and pictures.

Hi Sparrk! Thank you for your intrest.

[mtnmollie]

In 1993 the Landmark Boundary was reduced from an average of 6 miles wide to only 1/2mile wide. The Forest Service continued to log within the Landmark boundary, logging only the corridor on Beaver Ridge in 1994.

We are curently working on expanding the Landmark boundary to protect all the values in the Landmark, including the viewshed. And that is why I built this thread.

[mtnmollie]

Historical references to the old Lolo Trail.

1)"The trail here assumes the character of all Indian roads, being nothing more than a path wide enough to accommodate a single animal." pg 31 With Bird and Truax on the Lolo Trail, 1865- 1867- edited by Dennis Baird U of I Library 1999

2) "For eight miles we continued up and along steep mountains, thickly timbered with spruce and hamatack. (mile marker 81- 73, now heavily logged and burned. off.) At a distance of four miles we reached the top of the mountains, where we could see in every direction, and nothing met our view but one immense bed of pine- clad mountains." Mullan, 1854 pg 143, In Nez Perce Country by Lynn and Dennis Baird. University of Idaho Library 2003

continues...

[Gypsy Rose]

He,he! I see you're posting pics like mad, now! Fantastic!

Clearcut- no replanting- grrrr! don't let me get started!

When I went to visit my aunt in the Black Hills, I thought those small mountains were steep- your mountains make them look like large hills!

Very beautiful! I hope it continues to stay that way!

[mtnmollie]

Hi G/R. Thank you for your computer help.

The peeled trees talk. This was documented in tales of the Clearwater by Sam Swayne. The messages in the tree- by the peeled design were know only to the Nez Perce. Much of the old ways has been forgotten.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1658

[Gypsy Rose]

Wow! Their own version of cave drawings- neat! Too bad there are so few who remember...

And you're welcome- I only pointed you and Gene in the right direction, lol!

[JackieB]

Those tree markings are fascinating, Mollie. Just like our modern-day road signs, really. Although much more beautiful and natural, of course. Thanks for sharing them.

[mtnmollie]

In post # 122 is that a tepee 3 sleeps aways tree?


Musselshell Meadows mile marker zero- the starting place.


http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=176&pictureid=1652

[mtnmollie]

Those tree markings are fascinating, Mollie. Thanks for sharing them.

Your very welcome Jackie b.
The Lolo Trail has many hidden treasures.

Have you been to groups to join the Baywind Chapter of Friends of the Lolo Trail yet?
find groups in quick links...

[mtnmollie]

Large peeled tree on Lewis and Clark Trail 56 at Powell. Trail 56, part of the Lewis and Clark National Historic Trail (and Lolo Trail National Historic Landmark Trail) was open to the public from 1905- 1990, when trail 56 was removed from public use and forest maintance for timber harvest.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1641

[mtnmollie]

Trail 56 is a four mile segment of the Lolo Trail at Powell that climbs Lewis and Clark Ridge.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1664

[mtnmollie]

Logs have been put in the trail in places to discourage use. Notice the trail sign in the middle.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1660

[valleyrider]

Thanks for the tour threw such beautiful country. Love the story about the trees.

[mtnmollie]

Of the 85 miles of Lolo Trail across the Lolo Divide less than 20 miles is open to the public. The rest is in self discovery, but the Fosest Service has put many trees across the trail blocking use in places like Cayuse Junction, forcing users to travel the Lolo divide road.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=176&pictureid=1653

[mtnmollie]

Thanks for the tour threw such beautiful country. Love the story about the trees.

Your Welcome! :cowboy:

[Gypsy Rose]

It's a shame in some ways to block areas of from the public, but in other ways, you wouldn't want major traffic through that beautiful wilderness, either.

Those trees are really something!

[mtnmollie]

In some places trees are in the trail from abandonment...

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=214&pictureid=1826

[Gypsy Rose]

You can still easily see the trail, though- and you can tell that's natural.

[mtnmollie]

...but in some places trees are in the trail from Forset Service trail oblit projects.

Gene in the old origonal Lolo Trail, near Cayuse, mm 63.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1825

[mtnmollie]

How can the Nez Perce People, or any people travel the trail if it is blocked off?

What harm comes to the trail by minumal use?

If given a choice, people who travel horseback useally choose a trail over a road.

Chief Joe appy ride, mm 44- 2007

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=204&pictureid=1796

[mtnmollie]

It's a shame in some ways to block areas of from the public, but in other ways, you wouldn't want major traffic through that beautiful wilderness, either.

Those trees are really something!

The trail is being lost because of lack of use. The Forest Service claims no one can find the trail... Last winter in We Proceed On, Lewis and Clark magazine, Erica from the Forest Service claimed the trail was lost. The trail is being lost, because of Forest Service management. I am trying to change this.

[mtnmollie]

The Lolo Trail is a challenge trail. " General Sherman, in making his report to the War Depoartment, says that the trail has been admitted from Lewis and Clarkto Capt. Winters to be one of the worst trails on the continent." pg 60 with Bird and Truax on the Lolo Trail, edited, by Dennis Baird.

Because it is one of the worst trails in America, for any man or beast, not many come travel it. Those few who do come, mostly stay on the Lolo Divide road. You miss almost all the treasures of the Lolo Trail on the road.

[mtnmollie]

My secret place. I got lost and found this. Spur ridges off the Lolo Divide dropping to the Lochsa drainage to the right. This is in roadless- and none of this country has been logged yet- but may be in our near future. Roadless has very little protection.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=214&pictureid=1827

[mtnmollie]

Lewis and Clark Trail on Beaver Ridge- clearcut early 1980's. pict taken 2004.

The old trail is easy to follow if you can find it. It was removed from the Forest Service public map in 2001 after 20 or 30 years of being there for the public to follow. Now you have to have an old map to find the trail. This trail was here in 1905 when the Forest Service took over the land. It was here in 1805 as documented by Lewis and Calrk- but it is older than that.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=205&pictureid=1781


Gene on Beaver Ridge, 2004. Photo taken by Norm Miller. They walked down hill just 3 miles and it took all day; for Lolo Trail miles are big miles one must experience to understand. The Lolo Divide Ridge is across the Lochsa River Drainage, to the North.
Gene is looking north- west.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1661

[mtnmollie]

Trail flag- the lane- single path trail near Crooked Fork - abandoned Lewis and Clark Trail segment at Powell (Ranger district.) In Idaho primitive trails are flagged with logging tape to help the hunter to not get lost.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=205&pictureid=1785

[Gypsy Rose]

Ah, I understand now- use it or lose it. Wish there was a way to get more peole interested that actually COULD use it.

My mind doesn't always grasp things too fast, lol!

[mtnmollie]

Yes- exactly- use it or loose it.

All the Lolo Trail needs is about 15 riders a year...
for 3 days maybe?

[Gypsy Rose]

I wonder if there are enough members here on the forum close enough that maybe a ride could be organized?

[JackieB]

So Mollie, I just want to make sure I understand. All of the land in the area is open to public use, correct? BLM land, I suppose? There aren't sections of old Lolo Trail that are legally off limits, are there?

What is the Forest Service's reason for officially discouraging use of the old trail? Or do they acknowledge? I'm guessing they must acknowledge placing the trail obliteration logs and stuff over the trail.

Thanks so much for sharing so many of your pictures. Please keep them coming - forever! :)

I'm sure that I will get out to visit the Lolo Trail during my lifetime, but it will be awhile. At the end of 2007, I left a 20 year career with a Fortune 500 company when my job was transferred to New York City. Nothing against New York, but my wife and I weren't moving there. Rather than seek a new position with all of the demands that come with it (those white collar jobs really can be extremely stressful - far more than manual labor ever has been for me), my wife and I decided to try to get by self-employed. So far, so good, but traveling anywhere besides the grocery store :) is more or less out of the question for a long time to come because of the extremely tight living budget. I don't mind, though. I'm glad to have more control over my work life now.

[mtnmollie]

I wonder?

The Lolo Trail is so far from anywhere. :cowboy:

Rose- Fly our here next summer and ride my good horse... :cowboy:

[Gypsy Rose]

Wish I could, lol!

[mtnmollie]

Thannks for the questions J/b.


[QUOTE=JackieB;14146]So Mollie, I just want to make sure I understand. All of the land in the area is open to public use, correct? BLM land, I suppose?'

The land the Lolo Trail crosses from mile marker zero (Musselshell) to 85 or 86 ( Packer Meadows or old Lolo PAss) is on the Clearwater National Forest. Sorry - I should of made this clear in the beginning.


"There aren't sections of old Lolo Trail that are legally off limits, are there? "

No. Espically to the Nez Perce- who have treaty rights. However ther are places that have been heavily looged the Forest Service does not want you to visit. The Beaver Ridge Section of the Lewis and Clark National Historic Trail is one of these places. When this man, John Crawford, who wrote this book, Lewis and Clark and Me, by Stoney-dale Press 2006 wanted to hike the Beaver Ridge segment of the L and C trail, he was told there was no trail. The Forest Service attoureny said this in court- when we challenged a timber sale on Wendover Ridge during the L and C bi- centinneal. I was aghast and speechless because this has been a known segment of the Lewis and Clark Trail for over 100 years-undisputed location.

What is the Forest Service's reason for officially discouraging use of the old trail? Or do they acknowledge?

1) What trail? No one can find it.
2) People need to stay the h... off the trail.
3) No one cares about the trail except a few old historians-and they dont count.
4) Why would any one tell you no one cares about the trail- when you obviousely do?
5) If we opend a segment of the trail to the public- it must be a pretty place.
(No timber harvest.)
6) We dont have any money.

I'm guessing they must acknowledge placing the trail obliteration logs and stuff over the trail.

If it is not on paper it never happened. It took over 3 years to find the paperwork- and then Congressional intervention to get copies. LOL.

Forest Servcie replies varry.
1) We did no trail oblit. ( North Fork Ranger)
2) Trail oblit made the trail go away. ( old Lochsa Ranger)
3) We do not know what trail oblit means? (heritage department)
* I have a copy of the Region One Trail handbook- with trail oblit defined. *
4) We can't find that handbook.
5) It does not matter, that we did trail oblit...

To be continued ...
When I quit waking up in the middle of the night screaming-

Thanks so much for sharing so many of your pictures. Please keep them coming - forever! :)

Your welcome! Thank you for your intrest!

I'm sure that I will get out to visit the Lolo Trail during my lifetime, but it will be awhile. At the end of 2007, I left a 20 year career with a Fortune 500 company when my job was transferred to New York City. Nothing against New York, but my wife and I weren't moving there. Rather than seek a new position with all of the demands that come with it (those white collar jobs really can be extremely stressful - far more than manual labor ever has been for me), my wife and I decided to try to get by self-employed. So far, so good, but traveling anywhere besides the grocery store :) is more or less out of the question for a long time to come because of the extremely tight living budget. I don't mind, though. I'm glad to have more control over my work life now.

Steven Ambrose fell in love with the Lolo Trail and that is why he wrote Undaunted Courage.

[Gypsy Rose]

Now I understand what you meant about finding parts of the trail if you know where to look.

[mtnmollie]

Will Boyd said he did not understand any thing I said untill I took him there.

Then he got it. LOL>

[mtnmollie]

Now I understand what you meant about finding parts of the trail if you know where to look.

We have been working on this since 2000 so its taken 8 years to put the piecies together.

The hardest part is finding the trail after old timber harvests.

Gene is ready to write his second book this winter on trail location.

If we just knew in the beginning, take GPS points off the old maps and you will find the trail- it would have been lots easier.

[Gypsy Rose]

Have you been putting together a map, then? The one I found wasn't very good, lol!

[mtnmollie]

Yes Gene is publishing detailed map location.

We have a ton of good old maps of the Lolo Trail, starting in 1805 with L and C,
Mullan, Bird and Truax, Howard's 1877 War map- early detailied F.S. maps, 1911 and 1913 USGS maps - and more.

We should put them on a CD and sell them.

[medicine hat]

real life history~thank you for your research!!

[Gypsy Rose]

Yes Gene is publishing detailed map location.

We have a ton of good old maps of the Lolo Trail, starting in 1805 with L and C,
Mullan, Bird and Truax, Howard's 1877 War map- early detailied F.S. maps, 1911 and 1913 USGS maps - and more.

We should put them on a CD and sell them.

Maybe post a few maps here?

[JackieB]

Mollie,
Do you know about how many horses the U.S. captured at the Bear Paw Battle, and what happened to them?

[mtnmollie]

Horses at Bear Paw? The Crows got some- other tribes and maybe some whites.
Probablly shot what was left over. The army shot horses in war times.

How many? Not sure, about 2,000 maybe?

[mtnmollie]

Maybe post a few maps here?

Scan maps? Yes that is on my to do list... :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

real life history~thank you for your research!!

Thank you for reading my thread. I hope you liked it. :cowboy:

[Gliderider]

Oh WOW BEAUTIFUL took my breath away.

[JackieB]

Horses at Bear Paw? The Crows got some- other tribes and maybe some whites.
Probablly shot what was left over. The army shot horses in war times.

How many? Not sure, about 2,000 maybe?

I read 2,000 on a site last night. What a tragedy, in addition to the human tragedy as well, of course. Thank goodness there were at least some Appaloosa horses left in Washington/Idaho.

[mtnmollie]

Oh WOW BEAUTIFUL took my breath away.

Glad you enjoyed it Glide rider! :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

I read 2,000 on a site last night. What a tragedy, in addition to the human tragedy as well, of course. Thank goodness there were at least some Appaloosa horses left in Washington/Idaho.

The Nez Perce were forced to cross the Snake at flood stage, It is said for a week after the crossing- dead horses were floating down the river.

They killed horses on the Crow Reservation from planes in the 1930's for sheep grazing.
A Nez Perce said they killed our horses too...

Some people have no rights, even on their own land.

[Gypsy Rose]

It's sad, yet so very true. They were here before we were.

[JackieB]

Some people have no rights, even on their own land.

So true. Everything is relative and anything can be justified when human beings want something.


I'm very patriotic and love the United States, so this is certainly no knock against us. But I've always found it a bit curious that as our forefathers penned the beautiful Declaration of Independence with its magnificent words that all of us had inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that some of them outright owned other human beings as slaves and then we set about killing or forcibly removing the Americans who had lived here for thousands of years.

Again, this isn't a criticism of the United States. It's just the dark side of human nature. The Native Americans had wars with each other and kept slaves, too. But it doesn't make these acts of cruelty any less sad.

Thank goodness the Appaloosa horse survived and that the Nez Perce are rediscovering their roots with horses.

[mtnmollie]

The Lolo Trail is a good place for the wounded heart.

There is a place of healing there.

Its is a place to build bonds.

Dennis told me it took him 5 years to win a certian man's trust.
But bonds were built with- him (Mr. Certian man) and me in 5 minutes on the old Lolo Trail. To cool.

[mtnmollie]

From Chief Joesph's speech in Washington D.C. , April, 1879,

" My friends, I have been asked to show you my heart. I am glad to have a chance to do so. I want the white people to understand my people. What I have to say will come from my heart, and I wil speak with a straight tongue. " p.1 from That All People may be one People, Send Rain to Wash the Face of the Earth, by Cheif Joseph, 1879, printed by Mountain Meadow Press, 1995.

[mtnmollie]

Use it or loose it- I have to get horses on the trail, how can I do that?

I have to get the Nez Perce youth on the trail- how can I do that?

Go see Rosa, Brian tells me- so I do. I can't do much by myself-

In 2006 we got over twenty riders and about 40 Nez Perce people back on the old Lolo Trail. It was the first time we had that many Nez Perce people on the trail since the 1877War it was said.

Mollie on Robin Hood, leading Mac on left, Travler on right with Zac, and the Nez Perce people.
Green saddle, mm23- Lolo Divide road.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=228&pictureid=2016

[mtnmollie]

Aaron at Clearwater Crossing, where Lewis and Clark crossed the Clearwater River
at Orofino, 2006 dedication.
I think the horse he is on is War Pony.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=228&pictureid=2022

[mtnmollie]

We started at Musselshell in 2006 and rode to Noseeum, mm 33 staying on the old trail as much as possible, and by- passing many new Forest Service "trail additions." How can the new trail be the old trail? I want the new trail additions closed or marked on site as new trail additions. The Lolo Trail Landmark segment of the Nez Perce National Historic trail differs from other parts of the Nez Perce National Historic Trail in Montana and Wyoming for example for they are not on the old Nez Perce homeland, and the Lolo Trail is.

Group picture of youth- 2006 ride - at Deep Saddle, mm26.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=228&pictureid=2020

[mtnmollie]

In 2008 we rode from Deep Saddle mm26 to Howard Camp mm50.

Taking a break at Noseeum Camp mm33.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=515

[mtnmollie]

Originally Posted by mtnmollie
" No one cares about the Lolo Trail. " Forest Service Powell Ranger; Chad Benson.

What do you say to that, people? Do you think that's true?

Here's my stupid question. :cowboy:

No one answered my stupid question yet.

Powel Ranger Chad Benson told me no one cares about the Lolo Trail.
Do you think that statement is true?

[JackieB]

Several of us wrote that we cared about the Lolo trail, Mollie. I think it should be preserved and used, especially by the Nez Perce. It's an important connection to their heritage.

[mtnmollie]

Oh Thanks! Jackie b.!

I am one dense cookie! sorry!

I got it- I got it-

Lots of people care- and that's what I always thought. :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Several of us wrote that we cared about the Lolo trail, Mollie. I think it should be preserved and used, especially by the Nez Perce. It's an important connection to their heritage.

Jack Bell and new bride, Velda Sue -with the Nez Perce 2008 on the Lolo Trail.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=433

[mtnmollie]

Several of us wrote that we cared about the Lolo trail, Mollie. I think it should be preserved and used, especially by the Nez Perce. It's an important connection to their heritage.

Jackie B- Can you tell yet that I am dislexic?
Maybe it shows in spelling and comprehension?

Thank you for your patience.

Dennis my editor hates the way I write- and organize too ...
He pulls out his hair- and he is a patient man too.

:cowboy:

[Gypsy Rose]

The more people hear about this, Mollie, the more people you may find that care.

The word must be spread!

[mtnmollie]

G/R Thanks. Everyone loves the Nez Perce people. American's were rooting for them during the 1877 War- when they were driven from their homeland. The Nez Perce did not want to fight- they just wanted peace and freedom- perhaps they could find it in Canada?

When they returned from Oklahoma they had two reservations to choose from. If they refused to convert to Christianity- they went to Colville- home of about 13 tribes.The Nez Perce who came to Colville were honered by the American people- which made the other tribes jeolous.

The Nez Perce youth may be persecuted by the other youth on the Colville Reservation.

[JackieB]

Jackie B- Can you tell yet that I am dislexic?
Maybe it shows in spelling and comprehension?

Thank you for your patience.

:cowboy:

No problem at all, Mollie. You have fascinating stories and photos to share, and that's what is really valuable. We're glad that you are sharing them with us.

[mtnmollie]

J/B - Thanks. I distinctly remember you said -

"Tell them Tom from Michigan cares."

Thank you for your freindship.

Our first book- Bitterroot Crossing ended up at Benke Libraty at Yale.
They have to approve and accept your book as a scholary work to get in that library.

Dennis said - write this work correctly.
I wanted to tell Dennis I have worked my whole life to write - wrong- like my cowboy hero Will James.

His out of print books are back in print and available at Amazon.

He mis- spelled world but he put you right in the middle of his story of
a Lonesome Cowboy on the range; with cowboy slang/talk and all.

What? Me write a scholary work? Only under Gene and Dennis's shadow.
And Donna- great editor.

[Gypsy Rose]

The Bitterroot Crossing book- I wonder if I could find that book in a library in Minnesota?

[mtnmollie]

The lane, the single path trail, the big tree.

In order for the Lolo Trai to heal the wound heart- one must walk or ride a horse- 4- wheelers and jeeps dont cut it. You pass by too fast in motorized to see with the heart.

Big trees are rare on the Lolo Trail and Clearwater Forest, because the loggers went after the big trees first. Tree on right- 500 plus years old, mile marker 8.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=66&pictureid=450

[mtnmollie]

Snow on the Lolo Trail in May- the lane - the single path-

Stump on left from old clearcut, done when the Landmark boundary was 6 miles wide, to protect the trail and necessary wilderness setting.
mile marker 6+

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=66&pictureid=516

[mtnmollie]

The Bitterroot Crossing book- I wonder if I could find that book in a library in Minnesota?

Dennis put it in a lot of library's nation wide.

[Gypsy Rose]

Thank you, Mollie.

I love your pictures! I'm looking at the May snow, and wondering what it's like to ride a trail with a narrow path, with the hill going up on one side of you, and down the other. I have never done that.

[mtnmollie]

I love your pictures! I'm looking at the May snow, and wondering what it's like to ride a trail with a narrow path, with the hill going up on one side of you, and down the other. I have never done that.

That is a sidehill trail. I first thought all sidehill trails below the divide ridge were Forest Service additions- but some are Indian trails from before the Forest Service.

Some sidehill Indian trails are documented by Lewis and Clark. The sidehill ridge trail at upper Sherman is an example.

[mtnmollie]

Oh look- jackie B-Rum's moms cares too. I just have to re- read everything and then I get it-LOL.


Mollie.......bless you for keeping the Lolo trails alive. You tell that yahoo at the forest service, that Mary in North Carolina cares...............and would one day love to see the Lolo Trail for herself, to go where the Nez Perce have gone with her friend Mollie.

I have freind in high places at the Forest Service these days, our supervisor Tom Rilley. He is a champ!

[Gypsy Rose]

I really like this thread- I'm learning so much! Thank you mtnmollie!

[mtnmollie]

Thank you G/R.

There is so much to tell- I have not told you about the talking rocks yet-or the parallel inter-twined Indian trails in the coridor.

And the maps too-
and I'm 20 pages in an I want to quit- but I'm not done.
Oh my.

[JackieB]

The Bitterroot Crossing book- I wonder if I could find that book in a library in Minnesota?

If you put in a request, most libraries will work really hard to find one on inter-library loan. Or, they might buy a copy to add to their collection.

[JackieB]

Thank you, Mollie.
...and wondering what it's like to ride a trail with a narrow path, with the hill going up on one side of you, and down the other. I have never done that.

I have. It's important to be on a horse you trust and who will listen to you. A couple years ago, Buster and I were arguing really bad on a sidehill trail. It ended with me losing control of him entirely and we were fortunate to not have been seriously injured or worse. It was the scariest moment I've ever had on horseback. Fortunately, those days are behind us and I doubt we'd get into a situation like that again, but that was so scary. I was shaking like a leaf at the end.

[mtnmollie]

Cloe asked for another picture-

It is so special to have the honer to ride with the Nez Perce people. They built this rock carin in 2008. Each rock represents a special person. We all had to tell about our rock. I did not get a rock- for I am not Nez Perce. They made me get a rock. My rock was for my sister- we do not dance together any more because of strife.

This was just an awesome place for the heart. I can't put it in words- just wow.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=2254

[cloedoll]

Yay, thanks for posting another. That picture is awesome. (:

[mtnmollie]

Glad you liked it Cloe! I wanted to find a special picture just for you.

Aaron's feathers, Indian Post Office, 2008
Lolo Trail mile marker 55

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=51&pictureid=2253

[Gypsy Rose]

Interesting pics! Makes me want to learn more about the Nez Perce and their history.

[Gypsy Rose]

If you put in a request, most libraries will work really hard to find one on inter-library loan. Or, they might buy a copy to add to their collection.


Thank you, JackieB!

[mtnmollie]

Cheif Joseph's 1879 speech in Washington D.C. continues...

Eight years later was the next treaty council. A chief called Lawyer, because he was a great talker, took the lead in this council and sold nearly all of the Nez Perces' country. In this treaty Lawyer acted without authority from our band (Cheif Joseph Band.) He had no right to sell the Wallowa (Oregon) country.

The white man had no right ot take our country. We have never accepted presents from the government. Neither Lawyer nor any other cheif had authority to sell this land. It has always belonged to my people. It came to them from our fathers. We wil defend this land as long as a drop of Indian blood warms the hearts of our men.

quoted from page 8 and 9, That all People may be One, Cheif Joseph, 1879, reprinted by Mountain Meadow Press, 1995.

Cheif Joseph was going to move onto the reservation. They had to cross the mighy rageing Snake River at flood stage, and lost many horses. In anger, some young men killed a few whites, and then the war began. Instead of stand and fight, Joseph and his people attempted to flee to Canada. The 1877 Nez Perce War had begun. The battle of White Bird was the first fight. The Nez Perce were thought to be mild sheep-but they found fierce warriors that day. The U.S. Army was soundly defeated.

The Nez Perce people started over the old Lolo Trail, where no cannon could follow them.
General Howard, perhaps fearing a battle along the narrow trail- would not start after them untill a week later.

[Gypsy Rose]

There is so much history with the Lolo Trail- more should know.

[mtnmollie]

Yes, and you teach people with stories, and books and videos or DVD's.

...and forum threads- :cowboy:

[mtnmollie]

Lolo trail rocks- Indian Post Office - 1956

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=265&pictureid=2408

[mtnmollie]

Indian Post Office 2008 - Beaver Ridge fire in background.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=265&pictureid=2416

[Gypsy Rose]

The landscape around the post office has changed over the years, hasn't it?

[mtnmollie]

Yes, and the rock cairns seemed to have moved and changed shape too.

[Gypsy Rose]

Hartder for rocks to move- it shows how much the earth can change over time.

[WashingtonBay]

Would you like me to add (Lolo Trail) to the title or otherwise rename this thread?

[mtnmollie]

Here is what I re-named it on page one-

I wonder- the story of the Lolo Trail, in pictures.

but it did not show up in the thread title. :cowboy:

[WashingtonBay]

Unfortunately you can't change titles, but I can. And will :)

[mtnmollie]

Thanks Bay!

Your the best! :cowboy:

[JackieB]

Unfortunately you can't change titles, but I can. And will :)

You see, that's the power thing. She hates for anyone else to have any of it. :p:p

[carla]

Wow. I did open this thread when it was just a pic or two, but had no idea it had turned into all of this.

It would be a dream to be able to come and ride these trails with you, mtnmollie! One I may just dream tonight, after looking at/reading all of this. I can hope, right?

Thank you so much for taking the time to share all of this with us!

[mtnmollie]

Wow. I did open this thread when it was just a pic or two, but had no idea it had turned into all of this.

It would be a dream to be able to come and ride these trails with you, mtnmollie! One I may just dream tonight, after looking at/reading all of this. I can hope, right?

Thank you so much for taking the time to share all of this with us!

Hi Carla--

I thought you were amongst the missing,
gald you found us again.

You are so welcome-
its my passion. :cowboy:

Yep- Come and visit us ya' all.

[Gypsy Rose]

I am happy to see people finding this thread again! The Lolo Trail is a beautiful place, and should be shared.

[carla]

Hi Carla--

I thought you were amongst the missing,
gald you found us again.




And thank you, for missing me. :o;)

[carla]

I am happy to see people finding this thread again! The Lolo Trail is a beautiful place, and should be shared.


Your link thread was helpful, Gypsy! :)

[Gypsy Rose]

I wanted more people to see it- the origional title was deceiving. I'm sure that many will enjoy Mollie's beautiful pics and stories.

Thanks WB for editing the title- that might help.:)

[JackieB]

I dont want power Jackie.


No, I meant WB with not allowing anyone to change the name of the thread. :) Actually, I'm sure it's just part of the forum programming, but I didn't want to miss a possible opportunity to be trout-slapped!

[JackieB]

I wanted more people to see it- the origional title was deceiving. I'm sure that many will enjoy Mollie's beautiful pics and stories.


That was a great idea, Gypsy Rose. Mollie is a fantastic story teller (true stories too, which are the best kind!) and she has phenomenal photos to accompany. We're fortunate that she is sharing them with us.

I could definitely see a Lolo Trail forum trip some year in the future. :cowboy: I might be one of the forumers who would be happy to walk on foot, though. Those are some wicked trails and when Mollie pointed out, quite accurately, that a rider or horse could get killed any time they set out in those mountains, I knew she wasn't kidding.

I probably could have snagged an invitation to go on one of the elk hunting trips in Colorado that Buster used to go on every year, but I was a bit skeert. :eek: Now keep in mind that I've been skydiving, bungee jumping, hang gliding, and all other kinds of things. But I'd hear those stories of the drop offs next to the trail and the hills they had to climb without stopping because the horses would all start to slide backwards and might go off the side of the mountain... :eek: Gulp! They weren't kidding, either.

[WashingtonBay]

No, I meant WB with not allowing anyone to change the name of the thread. :) Actually, I'm sure it's just part of the forum programming, but I didn't want to miss a possible opportunity to be trout-slapped!

:trout:

[Gypsy Rose]

Some of us, myself included, would probably be a little leery of riding in a lot of those places without a good mountain horse. But I'll bet there are a lot of places a person could still go.

I would not have a horse to ride, anyway- Gypsy's too old,lol!

[mtnmollie]

Some of us, myself included, would probably be a little leery of riding in a lot of those places without a good mountain horse. But I'll bet there are a lot of places a person could still go.



The Lolo Trail is very safe- it is on a broad flat ridge- and

a colt can booger and you might live.

Hungery Creek is tough- though.

[JackieB]

Some of us, myself included, would probably be a little leery of riding in a lot of those places without a good mountain horse. But I'll bet there are a lot of places a person could still go.

I would not have a horse to ride, anyway- Gypsy's too old,lol!

OK, so you and I walk the trail. That's no problem anyway. I'm a strong hiker and not worried about accidentally stepping off the side of a mountain.

So true about a good mountain horse! When I had my super-scary experience with Buster, I was with two extremely-experienced friends who ride their horses in the mountains all the time. Their horses had utmost respect for them and vice versa. Buster and I were still very much in our testing/training phase. They were disappointed in me that I didn't handle the situation better, but I'll bet anything that they couldn't have done better on a horse that was fighting with them, either. Buster was in a gnarly mood and we belonged in a round pen or arena, not on a steep trail going up the side of a hill.

[Gypsy Rose]

Would be a great place to ride, but I would still need to borrow a horse, lol! Though I'm only dreaming- right now, it's not feasible for me- maybe someday. I have wanted to see many places, but have ony been to a few.

[JackieB]

a colt can booger and you might live.


Oh, well now I'm reassured. :rolleyes:

[mtnmollie]

Thanks, I am glad you feel better. Triple O Outfitters takes folks who have never- ever riden a horse before- on the Lolo Trail on horseback. Clients even come back- LOL>

But hay- stay away. I want this place all to my selfish self. :cowboy:

[Gypsy Rose]

He,he! If you did , you eouldn't be telling us about it, lol!

Maybe someday, I will find a way to come!

[mtnmollie]

OK, so you and I walk the trail. That's no problem anyway. I'm a strong hiker and not worried about accidentally stepping off the side of a mountain.

So true about a good mountain horse! When I had my super-scary experience with Buster, I was with two extremely-experienced friends who ride their horses in the mountains all the time. Their horses had utmost respect for them and vice versa.

Buster and I were still very much in our testing/training phase. They were disappointed in me that I didn't handle the situation better, but I'll bet anything that they couldn't have done better on a horse that was fighting with them, either. Buster was in a gnarly mood and we belonged in a round pen or arena, not on a steep trail going up the side of a hill.

Thats a good point Jackie B. Most Outfitters dont let you bring your horse - you have to ride theirs.

When we took the 3 Lewis and Clarkies- they had 3 borrowed tough mountain horses.
I told Chruch to walk his horse- not let her trot- he would not listen to me. Then she quit on him climbing Wendover Ridge. Seven miles to the top; when they quit sometimes you can't move them, but we got her to camp.

When we got to the viewpoint at No- see- um Ridge, their horses were done in.
So we trailered them to Musselshell- another 33 miles.

[Gypsy Rose]

Funny how outsiders don't seem to listen- don't they realize they would not know what the horses could or could not do?

[mtnmollie]

One can always ride the Lolo Divide road if you are afraid the Lolo Trail is too much for your horse. On our 2004 Search and Rescue ride, half of us took the trail, the others rode the road. (Five years after the 2003 fire at mile marker 70 plus.) We have a "we need to burn the forest plan" on the Clearwater. Every year we will have more and then more planned burns. Standing dead timber looks like a pretty big fire hazrd to me, but what do I know?

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=204&pictureid=2248

[Gypsy Rose]

Looks like a fire hazard to me too, lol!

[mtnmollie]

Lolo Trail mile marker 28 plus
2008 Willow Ridge controled burn- fire started from dropping fire from helicoptor; mid August.
Mid August! Yeah.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=265&pictureid=2424

[mtnmollie]

Live CMT's (culturally modified trees) are rare on the Lolo Trail. These are dead now;
Indian Peeled trees or "talking trees." 2008 Willow Ridge controlled burn.

The current Forest Supervisor wants to protect the Lolo Trail from fire- not burn it.
This is a step in the right direction. We are beginning to make progress after many years of hollaring in the dark.

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=265&pictureid=2421

[mtnmollie]

So - this is a stupid question- but- do you all want to come see
1) a live green forest?
2) or a clearcut forest?
3) or a burned up forest?

You can see all three on the Lolo Trail but number one is loosing ground every year.

[mtnmollie]

Old Lolo Trail mile marker 62 plus

five years after the 2003 fire.

Where is the trail? We have it GPSed and we know where it is (or was.)
We want to adopt this abandoned trail segment and get it cut out and re- opened.
We are working with the ranger and the supervisor to achieve this goal.
And I just got a yes answer.

I dont know if I should rejoice or cry- what a job before me. :cowboy:

http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=266&pictureid=2415

[Gypsy Rose]

Wahoo! That's famtastic!

[mtnmollie]

We can get grants from Parks and Rec and get cheap prison crew labor.

Just paperwork and group meetings with the right people is all we need.
Simple I guess.

The Nez Perce people told me when I have the major trail work done by prison crew- they may be intrested in adopting and keeping open the old Lolo trail.

So I (or we- Friends of the Lolo Trail non- profit) can adopt it- fix it and then they take over.
The perfect plan.

Everybody wins. The Forest Service does not have to spend any money- (State grants) -
I get the old trail preserved- and the Nez Perce youth get to use it; and the prison crew gets to get out in the woods- which is always better than prison.

Besides- prison crew dumped the trees in the trail to begin with- as a Forest Service project.

[Steelhorserider]

Amazing pics and I love the commentary. I did not know much about Idaho and I certainly did know how the Forest Service is trying to manage the timber in that area. Is there any way we can help? You do have an awesome responsibility but that country looks worth all the effort.

[carla]

You know, your diagram of the "talking trees" has me wondering. I've always seen trees that are "scarred" like that around these parts while riding, but never thought anything of it as far as "talking." I have always tried to imagine what could make such a mark, though. I just thought it was scars from disease or something??? Could I be wrong?

[rocknK]

The woman who runs the stable where I keep my geldings rode alot of the Nez Perce trail. Not sure how long ago. She kept alot of notes with the idea of writing a book. Maybe one day she'll finally sit down & do it.

[mtnmollie]

So my plan got revealed in the I wonder thread yesterday; for preservation.
Adopt the non- maintained part of the historic trail and cut the trees out of or off of the old trail. In the few places where it is tough- get the prison crew to help, or some other cheap labor- like the boy scouts.

I wonder if I can clear the trail of all those downed trees near Cayuse Junction from the
2003 " Let it Burn" fire?

I wonder what "Let it burn" timber management for "forest health" costs us in clean- up and maintance?

I should ask the Forest Service sometime.

I know the Boundary Peak fire (Lolo Divide about mm 13 - 15- mex mtn branch) cost more to let burn than
it would have cost to put it out. I followed it on the i- net; when the fire was burning.

Boundary Peak- was that our 2006 or 2007 fire on the Lolo trail?
How time flies.

[Gypsy Rose]

That would be great if the Nez Perce adopt the trail- maintenance of it, even after it's cleared would be a big job. It would also stop the arguement of having to allocate funds.

[mtnmollie]

You know, your diagram of the "talking trees" has me wondering. I've always seen trees that are "scarred" like that around these parts while riding, but never thought anything of it as far as "talking." I have always tried to imagine what could make such a mark, though. I just thought it was scars from disease or something??? Could I be wrong?

These trees are part of the Nez Perce written language before the whites came.
Our language we write with the ABC's but their's they wrote with the trees.
I bet other tribes could not read the Nez Perce language.

The Nez Perce also had "talking rocks," a written language useing the stones.

to be continued...

[mtnmollie]

Amazing pics and I love the commentary. I did not know much about Idaho and I certainly did know how the Forest Service is trying to manage the timber in that area. Is there any way we can help? You do have an awesome responsibility but that country looks worth all the effort.

Hello Steel.

Anyone intrested in the preservation of the old Lolo Trail can join the Baywind Chapter of the Friends of the Lolo Trail in groups. We have 5 members now. To find groups- go to quick links at top of page.

Letter writing helps a lot.

In the 1980's the Forest Service planned to gravel the center part of the Lolo Divide road for timber harvest. Letters from across America canceled the project.

I might ask for some letter support in November, but first I wanted to tell you the story of the old Lolo Trail.

[Lakota's Pet]

Mollie, I just spent the last hour reading the entire thread, and I think what you are trying to do is absolutely awesome. There is some much information here, and much more to be learned. The pics are fantastic. I would love to come ride with you, even if it's only for a week. Maybe in a couple years when my 2 boys are a little older, and my horse has a lot more miles on him.

[mtnmollie]

Thanks LP. That post really touched my heart. :)