Just doesn't like ANY bit??!

[CrazyManda]

Chanti is 4, and I started her her 2 year old year. She wore a snaffle for her groundwork and every time she gave me a fight just to get the bridle on and once it was on she'd sling her head, toss it around and just not listen. She's been rode in a sidepull and she does fine but any bit makes her fight being bridled and she slings her head at any slight pressure. I've bridled her up and left it on, trying to let her get used to it but it doesn't matter how long she wore it, she just doesn't like any bit I've tried. She does fine in a sidepull, has a sensitive nose so it doesn't take much to control her anyway but I'd like her to be more versatile and able to use any bit or bridle on her in case the sidepull breaks and I have to use something else on her.

[WashingtonBay]

I guess I'd start over with the bridling process. Make sure the bit is adjusted right, is clean and doesn't taste bad, and most important, that your process for asking her to take it is coordinated and you don't clank her teeth with it. Work on just the 'mouth open' part at first. Change the way you approach it.

[OneHorseRanch]

Have her wolf teeth been pulled?

[IrisGreen]

Have her wolf teeth been pulled?

This is what I was going to ask:)

Get a bit with cooper inlay or sweet iron to make it taste better and make her slobber. They also have bit paste that you can smear on to make it taste nice.

No mater what you do if she still has her wolf teeth she's not going to like a bit banging into them. Check her bottom and top jaw to see if she has any that grew in, not all horses get them, some only get 2 lowers and some get all 4 (2 upper, 2 lower).

If it's not the wolf teeth then I would do as WB suggested and go back to basics. Maybe even have her carry a grazing bit for a while so she will learn how to carry it and get comfortable with it?

[mandisue]

I"m another one in favor of having her teeth checked, especially if she's never had them done. A lot of people have them floated at two before starting under saddle to be sure.

[cloedoll]

Ditto to what others said, I would definitely have her teeth checked.

[HeartofSteel]

Wolf teeth don't always have to be pulled, you can have them grinded down also.

[EnglishGuy]

Sounds like you need to go back to the basics with introducing the bit since she has developed a bad association with it. Once the teeth are fixed, you can use a bit that is easy to get in (nothing that takes a lot of precision and could get caught or hit her teeth too much), and make it taste good. You can take a banana and rub some of it on the bit, or anything else that can get her interested. Tobey used to be difficult with the bit, but I would take a peppermint, pop it in my mouth to get it wet, then rub the peppermint on the bit to get it smelly. He would go for it.

[WP~Paint]

I also agree with having her teeth done, but after that, maybe she would like a billy allen type mouth piece. I just bought a dee ring snaffle with that piece. My gelding hates a jointed mouth piece but he loves that type.

[Fork]

Assuming that you're riding with a saddle, get the fit checked. A well fitting saddle will eliminate many tacking up problems.

Ditto on the teeth floating.

[Cat]

Get the teeth checked.

Make sure your bit is properly placed (not too tight, not too loose - a single wrinkle in the corner of the lips is where my Toby prefers it - some people ride with 2 wrinkles - just depends).

Is your bit a proper size? Have you measured to make sure you have the right size? Not all horses take a 5 inch, though I know many people assume the standard 5 inch is going to work and just use the same bit on all their horses. I've also met people who weren't even aware that they came in different sizes, they thought as long as they had a standard riding horse they could pick just about any bit off the rack, which is not true. Not saying this is the case - just tossing out ideas that come to mind.

Next, what type of mouth peices have you used? Some horses are not comfortable in a single-jointed mouth peice or even thick mouth peices. These are not always gentle and can be a problem in smaller mouths with lower pallets or larger toungues. YOu may have to look into a french-link or arched-mullen mouth. You can get these in snaffles, but are more comfortable for some horses.

Also, make sure you are not clanking the teeth when you put the bridle on or off. This can create an adversion to the bit as well.

Good luck!

[luvs2ride1979]

Wolf teeth don't always have to be pulled, you can have them grinded down also.

They will grow back though... My mare's were ground down, then grew back faster than the rest of her teeth! I had them pulled the second time and never looked back :cool:.

To the OP: I would highly suggest a mullen mouth happy bit or a bean mouth happy bit. Both will lay in her mouth more evenly, avoiding the nutcracker effect on her tongue. The soft bit material will be more gentle to her gums and teeth as well.
http://www.smartpakequine.com/productclass.aspx?productClassid=4748
http://www.smartpakequine.com/productclass.aspx?productClassid=4752

I also agree with taking her back to the start with bridling training. Every time she opens her mouth for you, give her a treat. Make bridling = a good thing ;).

[Miracle Whip]

I do have a Billy Cook bitless bridle that I got from a forum member for free. You can have it if you want. My 2 don't listen to it very well

The other thing I wanted to ask is does she give at the poll - if you want to put a halter on for instance, will she lower her head? Do you lunge her with the bridle on? In the winter, do you warm up the bit first?

[CrazyManda]

She has not had her teeth worked on and that's something I plan on doing as soon as I have the money to. Yes, she does drop her head perfectly when I ask her to for haltering and she doesn't fight the sidepull headstall at all, but approach her with a bridle that has a bit on it, she backs up and slings her head around or alternates between dropping it so low I can't see to bridle her or up in the air lol.I have tried just a simple snaffle, an o ring, I tried a bit with a snaffle mouth and copper roller, tried a snaffle mouth with copper inlays too. I had the same reaction with all the bits I've tried.

[alittleoffkey]

Have you tried not-a-snaffle... like a bit with a french link or a mullen mouth? She could have a low port and just can't stand to carry a single-jointed bit. ;)

I do agree with having her teeth done before putting any other bit in there though. :)

[luvs2ride1979]

Sounds like pain. I would stick to the side pull until you can have her teeth done. Then buy one of those happy mouth bits I posted and start over.

[Annasmom]

weird thing.. Anna use to do a lot of head tossing a lonnnng time ago when I first got her (3 years ago on Jan.3)
haha anywayss.. We got her teeth floated and the vet saw that when they pulled her wolf teeth they left in a piece! (ouch!) so make sure you get a really good certified equine dentist!

also its my belief that you should be able to do everything freestyle (rope mccate, or halter)
before you move on to finesse (bridle) so if I were you thats what I'd go back and do.

[shewasmyshadow]

weird thing.. Anna use to do a lot of head tossing a lonnnng time ago when I first got her (3 years ago on Jan.3)
haha anywayss.. We got her teeth floated and the vet saw that when they pulled her wolf teeth they left in a piece! (ouch!) so make sure you get a really good certified equine dentist!

I was just going to say too that you can be very involved in the floating process. A good vet will sedate, put a mouth jack in and then let you put your hand in before (to feel the ridges yourself) and then after to see the difference. You can also see wolf-teeth easily when the mouth is jacked open and then check after it's pulled to see that it's fully gone. So if the vet is willing to let you be involved you can feel pretty confident that he knows what he's doing. If he doesn't want you watching then things like Anna mentioned might happen. Maybe you already knew that Manda, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. :)

[CrazyManda]

I bridled her today in a simple snaffle again and the only time she tossed her head around was when the bit slid around some..she didn't do her usual fighting routine with it. My vet that I use is awesome and she always lets me feel inside the mouth before she does any work and after. I want to get her teeth checked, she's never been checked yet.

[CrazyManda]

Well just a small update.....yesterday was the first time since I bridled her up again that I was able to catch my darn stubborn little mare:mad:. She didn't want anything at all to do with either me or my boyfriend, she was just being very bratty, pinning her ears and turning and running away from me. I couldn't even catch her with grain and this lovely behavior started after I bridled her...little brat lol. Auren did finally manage to grab her for me yesterday after she ran and ran nonstop for near 30 minutes. So I got her haltered and will make her wear a halter 24/7 until she decides to quit being a pain in the butt. Before I let her go though I lunged her and made her work some just to re-establish I was the boss and in charge of this partnership lol.

[cloedoll]

IMHO, I don't think it's fair to ask her to work at all (in a bit, sidepull, halter, anything) when you know her teeth need done. There's about a 99.9% this issue is because she's in pain from her teeth. Get them done a.s.a.p. and until then, don't work her...that's just me, though...

[zoel_222]

IMHO, I don't think it's fair to ask her to work at all (in a bit, sidepull, halter, anything) when you know her teeth need done. There's about a 99.9% this issue is because she's in pain from her teeth. Get them done a.s.a.p. and until then, don't work her...that's just me, though...

I agree.

[IrisGreen]

I agree with Cloe.

You are MAKING her have bad habits because you are not correcting the issue that's making her hate the bit. If you don't stop torturing her with a bit and get her teeth floated she wont ever like a bit or have trust in you. You are setting her up to fail every time you put a bit in her mouth knowing she needs her teeth done and that's not fair to her.

You need to stop using a bit PERIOD!! Until you get her mouth checked. You can't correct a pain issue if your not willing to fix why she is in pain.

I can't blame her for running away from you or shaking her head. She is trying to tell you it hurts and you just keep ignoring her. It doesn't make for a good relationship when she can't trust you to keep her best interest at heart and make sure she is not in pain before making her work for you.

I'm being blunt but it's the truth. If you want a horse to like being around you then you have to work with them, not ignore what they are trying to tell you. Stop using a bit!! Your not only teaching her bad habits but your braking any relationship you had with her by continuing to ignore her pain.

Get her teeth done, let her have a brake for a week. Then slowly work on her carrying a happy mouth bit that's soft rubber. Get her trusting you again and being comfortable with carrying a bit with out you pulling on it for a while. Work on her trusting you when you put a bit in her mouth that your not trying to hurt her.

Just take it easy and start slow with the bit. She is now programed to look at a bit and think "Pain" so now that's her main issue. It's going to take patience and understanding to get her over that. Then you can start slowly start riding her with it after she is comfortable carrying a bit again.

[Lakota's Pet]

I agree with Iris. She will never get any better till you fix her pain issue. Till then every time you stick that bit in her mouth she is going to associate you with pain and you won't be able to get near her. And I wouldn't really blame her. So until she gets her teeth looked at, side pull only. Otherwise she is going to fight and someone is going to get hurt. And none of us want to see that happen.

[shewasmyshadow]

Maybe just take a break and spend some quality time with her. Go out, give her some grain from the pan and then walk away. Do that for a few days, then catch her and bring her in. Feed her some treats, brush her and then turn her right back out. Do lots of reps of that until she LOVES being with you. Maybe take her in the round pen and teach her a come cue for a treat. I did that with my mare and it was FUN. I could put my hand out and motion towards myself and she would come right to me. How cool is that?

After you get her teeth done, then go back to bridling. ;)

[zoel_222]

I agree with Cloe.

You are MAKING her have bad habits because you are not correcting the issue that's making her hate the bit. If you don't stop torturing her with a bit and get her teeth floated she wont ever like a bit or have trust in you. You are setting her up to fail every time you put a bit in her mouth knowing she needs her teeth done and that's not fair to her.

You need to stop using a bit PERIOD!! Until you get her mouth checked. You can't correct a pain issue if your not willing to fix why she is in pain.

I can't blame her for running away from you or shaking her head. She is trying to tell you it hurts and you just keep ignoring her. It doesn't make for a good relationship when she can't trust you to keep her best interest at heart and make sure she is not in pain before making her work for you.

I'm being blunt but it's the truth. If you want a horse to like being around you then you have to work with them, not ignore what they are trying to tell you. Stop using a bit!! Your not only teaching her bad habits but your braking any relationship you had with her by continuing to ignore her pain.

Get her teeth done, let her have a brake for a week. Then slowly work on her carrying a happy mouth bit that's soft rubber. Get her trusting you again and being comfortable with carrying a bit with out you pulling on it for a while. Work on her trusting you when you put a bit in her mouth that your not trying to hurt her.

Just take it easy and start slow with the bit. She is now programed to look at a bit and think "Pain" so now that's her main issue. It's going to take patience and understanding to get her over that. Then you can start slowly start riding her with it after she is comfortable carrying a bit again.

I completely agree with you. Calling her a brat when she runs away from you is just not fair. She's not running away because she's bad, she's running away from you because everytime you catch her you keep HURTING her because of those teeth, and then you're just ignoring her pain. She's never going to trust you or listen to you until you get her teeth floated and eliminate that pain she's in.

[Miracle Whip]

From the original post, she said the horse has been a pain even as a 2 year old. The wolf teeth etc do not come in until they are 4 years old. Since it has been a consistent problem over the last 2 years... it might not be a dental issue? If the horse was teething the teeth would have come in by now?

I mean, my mare hates the dentist and fights it royally. The first time she went was at the age of 4 and they had to dope her up big time. She fought so much she could not walk in a straight line afterwards. I had to give her bute and she was so sore she stood for that even!!

Anyway, they DID get her teeth done and they told me she really needed them done. Other than some chomping on the bit...she always accepted the bit and was easy to bridle. I am hesitant to blame ALL of this horses behavior on her teeth. Based on the ear pinning, etc I think there is a lack of respect in this relationship.

I have also cared for an Arabian at the stable and he is a butt to put the bridle on. NOTHING wrong with his teeth, he just likes to grab the noseband of the halter in his teeth or put his head way up high. If you take your time and use the baby steps approach I can bridle him just fine.

He is actually an ex-show horse, very well trained but also has an attitude. His owner is rather intimidated by him.

[alittleoffkey]

MW - It may be a larger training problem, but it's still not acceptable to punish your horse for refusing to do something because it hurts. We teach horses to avoid pain (bite me and I'll smack you, for instance), there's no reason to expect a horse to willingly accept a bit and mind all its manners if it hurts... even if the pain is a newer issue. I'm certainly not going to do something or let someone do something to me if it hurts, I'm not going to expect my horse to either.

Once the teeth are taken care of, and the horse has no other excuses (low palleted horses, for instance, may not like single-jointed bits because they hit the roof of their mouth too easily), then they can start holding the horse to realistic expectations.

[Dixie]

Wolf teeth come in at 2yrs usually. We've always practiced having them pulled before we ever start a colt under saddle. Most horses only have them on the top, though a few will have them on the bottom as well.

This to me sounds like a combination of issues. Firstly, either her teeth were banged by the bit when she was bridled, she has her wolf teeth and the bit hurts(even just packing the bit without rein pressure it can still hit them and hurt), on top of lack of respect for the OP. I do think the horse has learned to associate being caught with pain though.

Get her teeth checked and taken care of, start over on introducing the bit. If it is related to a pain response, having her teeth done won't magically solve it just by yanking wolf teeth out or floating, it will take time because she's going to think it will hurt still, even when it won't. Patience is the key.

[cloedoll]

I agree completely with alittleoffkey. Even if it isn't a dental issue, there's still a good chance it is and again, if it's not, that's no reason to leave her teeth unfloated (let alone possibly wolf teeth needing pulled). Some horses don't mind if there teeth are never floated, they just deal with the pain and don't show it, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have their teeth done! I walked around with a broken foot (broken in three spots to be exact) and sucked it up, it didn't hurt that bad, I lived, but that doesn't mean I should have been walking on it! Lol. We got it in an air cast, that didn't help and I had to have my cast on for months! Argh. Anyways, to the OP, please, please have your horse's teeth checked VERY soon.

[IrisGreen]

Yes, Wolf teeth come in before they are two years old. I had Muffins' pulled before the was 2 yo. His were huge and would have caused a major problem with pain if I hadn't have had them removed. It was easy, sedation, pulled and there gone for about $45.

He is getting a check up to see if he needs floating soon, before he goes in to training in the spring. I want to make sure he is ready to start training and there won't be any mouth issues to cause him any pain. Get the teeth checked it's part of owning a horse. If this horse has been acting like this for 2 years you should have had it's mouth checked back then to rule out pain...

[shewasmyshadow]

Isn't the horse in the OP a mare? Can't remember, I'll have to go back and check... Anyways, mares don't always get the wolf teeth, so sometimes they tend to not check for them. My mare had a wolf tooth and we didn't find it until she was 4-5. Even then it was only one and it was almost hidden by her gums. It's possible that this horse does have a wolf tooth.

[IrisGreen]

Isn't the horse in the OP a mare? Can't remember, I'll have to go back and check... Anyways, mares don't always get the wolf teeth, so sometimes they tend to not check for them. My mare had a wolf tooth and we didn't find it until she was 4-5. Even then it was only one and it was almost hidden by her gums. It's possible that this horse does have a wolf tooth.

Yeah, I forgot about that...But, I think it's more of a myth that mares don't get wolf teeth as often as colts. People tend to think wolf teeth are a gelding or stallion "thing" but there not. Even a gelding can not get any at all. It just depends on there genetics and if it's in there linage I think.

The Wolf teeth that don't crown are not easy to spot. Like your mare and how it was just below the surface. Those can be painful like a tooth that's constantly trying to crown, then having a bit bang over it :doh:. But, It's good that you found it. You must have had a good vet that felt around and noticed it?

I have seen several Perch mares with huge wolf teeth on the bottom. Muffin already had his grown in by the time he was 1 1/2 years old. I'm glad I got them pulled then or they would be much bigger now:eek:. They were big even then! The vet was shocked how deep and long they were but he's half draft so his teeth are bigger.

Some wolf teeth are not as bad as others. Some grow in more toward the front of the bar. Closer to the front teeth. There not as bad because they leave room behind them for the bit to set and not bang on the wolf teeth when pulled. I have seen plenty of horses with these kind of wolf teeth that the owners never get pulled. Not saying I agree with it but they don't seem to have a problem with the bit hitting them that they can tell so they just leave them.

Then theres the ones that grow in closer to the back teeth or even right in front of the back teeth and are much worse because the bit is always banging on them. The horse can't hold the bit so it wont bang on them. They grew in perfectly in the wrong spot to have the horse carry a bit with out hitting them. These are the ones you can't ignore and filing is not a good answer to correct these. I feel they should be pulled.

I'm no expert but I did do some research on Wolf teeth when I noticed Muffin had them.

[luvs2ride1979]

Yup, my mare's wolf teeth didn't show up until after she turned four. We had them filed once, then pulled the next year when they started coming in bigger. Hers were right against her back teeth.

[CrazyManda]

When she was younger and when I first started really working her I had her carry the bit but that was when she was 2 going on 3..now she's 4 going on 5 and that last time was the first time she had been bridled since then...usually all I've been doing with her since I got bucked off was ground work. I usually just catch her and check her over, maybe do half an hour of work with her then let her go. I don't work her that much but once the warmer weather comes back I'm going to start riding again even if I don't fully trust her anymore since she's gotten Auren off her a couple times and it doesn't seem to be triggered by anything..she'll be going along fine then hump up and start bucking. Nothing has changed when I lunge her, she still listens very well but loose in the pen is a different story. She has to be cornered by two people in order to get close enough just to touch her and sometimes lately when she is finally caught she pulls back in fear:huh: She has never been handled rough at all before.

[IrisGreen]

It sounds like she isn't worked with that often and when she is it's not in a bonding way. Just catching her making her move around and doing a little ground work with her every few months is not going to make her a trusting horse.

In a since she's still wild and needs a routine of daily handling. If she is afraid and acts scared then she doesn't trust you and your going to have to spend more time with her or send her to the trainers.

Put her in a smaller area so you can work on her coming to you. Don't chase and corner her. Sit out in her paddock and read a book with a bucket of feed in front of you. Just hang out with her and show her it's good when you come to visit. Start with a bond and getting her to come to you and be comfortable hanging out next to you.

Don't use any bit tell you get her mouth checked and I wouldn't even do ground work with her tell she is coming to you and comfortable around you. Sounds like you need to start from square one with her to develop a trust with her.