Neglect?

[Maggiepie121493]

Okay. I don't know what else to do. There are horses up the road who are being severely neglected. We've had people go up and they said they were fine. They never have water, sometimes never have food. They're severely malnourished. One's feet look founders and his hooves were ready to break off this summer. He might have choke or has sever respiratory problems. The other will not make it next week, and it's supposed to be 40 below. They have hay bellies and one LOOKS okay, but is malnourished, severely dehydrated and is plain not healthy, the other has a bloated belly but his back bone is sticking out a good 3 inches or so. We've been trying to get these horses help for a while. They don't get turnout to even eat snow for SOME water. They're in a tiny box stall. Half the time the water bucket is filled with horse crap. We're going to try ASPCA for one last attempt, but is there anything else we can do? The land is in land use so we're not trespassing when we go to see them and we already got one out by buying it, but we're not sure what else to do. This one horse will DIE this winter and the animal control people are too blind to see this. Their hair is falling out. I really need suggestions right now. Please, anyone...

[RipSpark]

Your post was a little confussing, maybe it is just too late lol I need to be in bed. All I know is you have to be careful in situations like that. I have never know animal control to not do anything if they were really in that bad of shape. At least around here.... I would try contacting animal control...Is there an impound where you are?

[Maggiepie121493]

I don't know. The thing is, we're not the only one's who has called. One animal control works for them and refuses to go up. We've called the police, and we've been directed to everywhere and have called several different people. I'm not sure about an impound anywhere but we told them we're willing to take them in and be a foster home for no charge. We've even tried talking to the people and saying how we're willing to help them out with hay and other horsie costs and they blew it off and the wife, who's an alcoholic just screamed at my mom and walked off. We didn't even say "We want to take your horses" we said we'd be willing to help them out if needed, to maybe bring them down to our house where we have constantly running water so they wouldn't have to lug it up a hill and such. But we've gone everywhere and ASPCA's our last hope, so it seems. I've been thinking about bringing a vet who specializes in horses up there and evaluating them, and she also does a lot with rescue. I just don't know what else to do.
The really sad thing is, one of these horses has already been rescued once, and a while back we sold them the other, thinking with thousands of acres of green grass and he'd be right up the road he'd be in a great home. Well, he broke into our field on day, infected eyes and sore, and they didn't check on him. He wasn't fully paid off yet so I took him home and refused to give him back. Everyone convinced me that they needed a THIRD chance. We had an issue with lack of food before this when the wife was in rehab, which didn't do much. But I finally gave in, and look where he is! No one listened to me! I should have stuck to my guns, I know I should have. And now they're up there, stuck in a pen and now there seems to be nothing else we can do.

Sorry for the long post, guys. I just really need help and need to vent, a lot.

[luckydoublesranch]

Hi there,
I'm usually a vet tech for the Chautauqua County Humane Society (ASPCA) in NY (currently I'm on call). I'm a little confused too... Have you gone to the ASPCA already and have had no success? In our area animal control would also have nothing to do with the situation. The process here is to contact your local Humane Society Cruelty officer and file a complaint. You can remain anonymous if the cruelty can be observed from the road, etc. without the cruelty officer having to step foot on the property. If the horses are closed in a barn the officer would have a documented complainant and usually will ask the people to view the animals and if denied they would then file for a warrant to access the property. They would need at that point to keep record of your name/info. in case the situation led to court and you then would possibly be asked to testify. I can't believe the ASPCA would have nothing to do with this case. :mad: I can definitely get some contact info. for you tomorrow if that would help. Keep in mind that cruelty cases such as these are very difficult and frustrating sometimes. If all else fails and for some reason there is a serious problem with the structure of the program in your area there are other routes to get attention brought to the matter. If the neglect is to the point that you are describing and the horses days are "numbered" I would say that action in imperative. :(

[shewasmyshadow]

Just curious, what area of the country are you located?

[Maggiepie121493]

No, we're going to contact the ASPCA tomorrow. We've called animal, department of agriculture. We contacted the police and asked for some people to call and they directed us to them. I mean, I'm only 15 but my life is focused around horses. I'm in 4H, Pony club, doing a challenge course at school with my horse and going to college for it. And honestly, when a non-horsie person can look at that horse and say, "WTH?" then I think there's a serious problem. It's sickening. This horse really looks like it could keel over and die. They had one die last year too. She was old and wasn't in the best condition, but was decently healthy. She died up there probably from dehydration. When we went to pick up the other horse that we desperately offered to buy in the nicest way, not once did I lose my temper, and I'm surprised I haven't told them off yet...But he literally shoveled the horse out of the barn and scurried us off. We've told the animal control that we're willing to take them in because we know it's hard in today's economy to maybe find a home for them, but we're willing and ready to take them in. My mom will call ASPCA tomorrow because I'm not sure if this one horse will make it next week when it's 40 below 0. Tonight was around 20 degrees and we checked on them (In land use so it's not trespassing) and he was shivering, so I can't imagine he'll survive through next week. I just hope we can do something.

Honestly, if the ASPCA doesn't do anything, I'm not sure what else to do. I just feel so fired up right now, I honestly think they might come to their senses if they just get told off, because nothing else has worked. I'd love to bring a vet up there, who knows what she's doing, and tell them. I'd love to get everyone who called to go up and just scream at them. And I know that part was my teenage fire, but it's just so heartbreaking to know that you could have prevented this all by just saying "No, you're not getting another chance" and to know that the other horse was already rescued once.

[Maggiepie121493]

Vermont. We have a couple towns all intersecting. They're not even a mile up the road.

[luckydoublesranch]

Honestly, if the ASPCA doesn't do anything, I'm not sure what else to do.

Definitely contact the ASPCA tomorrow. They are the authorities to handle this. In most states animal control has very little to do with cruelties and the state police will get involved sometimes and usually just forward the complaint to the Humane Society in that county. I would make sure you are very clear and concise with your knowledge about the situation. A good idea would be to write down the information that you have to give to the Cruelty officer tomorrow. For example, conditions, witnessed lack of adequate food/water/care, ages of horses, etc... I can tell you are very upset and want action immediately, rightfully so, but remember to be very cordial and concerned. (seems to get better results with our officer anyway...hehe!) ;) By chance do you have pictures of the horses?

[Maggiepie121493]

I don't, only because we go up at night. My friend's mom who actually bough tthe other horse from them goes up with us and she has a picture from the summer, and the really skinny one was still skinny, but looked a but healthier from the green grass. But, even most of the summer they were eating dirt.

The only reason why their horses were taken care of in the summer and rotated was because they let us keep our horses up there too, but I went up every day, did water, moved pastures, etc. Once I moved my horses they started neglecting them. We'll call tomorrow and if that doesn't work then I'll try having a vet go up with me, not as a vet call but to look and maybe she could do a bit more. I'm desperately hoping to get someone out there before the cold hits so maybe they'll have a chance... Who knows though. That horse might make it, but it won't be comfortable...

It just sucks to know it could have been prevented if people would have just listened to me, you know? I know I'm young and adults think they need to be adults, but they should have listened. I was right...and it sucks because they didn't listen...

[Maggiepie121493]

I have to get to bed. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks everyone for your support. I'm honestly really upset right now, so thank you for listening.

[luckydoublesranch]

It just sucks to know it could have been prevented if people would have just listened to me, you know? I know I'm young and adults think they need to be adults, but they should have listened. I was right...and it sucks because they didn't listen...

Many authorities will require the complainant to be a legal adult and also give them more attention, so your mother should probably make the call tomorrow. ;) It would also help if there are multiple people who have witnessed the neglect to have multiple complaints. That may help get the ball rolling as well.

I can tell you are very frustrated with the situation and your heart is in the right place. It also sounds like this has been a hard but effective learning experience for you. Good luck and keep us updated. :)

[zoel_222]

luckydoubles gave you some great advice :)

I'm really sad that this is going on and no one is listening to you, Maggie. People just don't like to take kids seriously no matter how right they are. Definitely be sure to have your mom call the ASPCA as soon as possible. I hope something works out well for these poor horses.

[Maggiepie121493]

Well, today's the day we call. We have other people who have complained and seen the horses. Part of me thinks he's keeping them locked in that barn is so no one can complain anymore because they can't see them. But, today's a new day and I'm just going to hope for the best. I'll be away most of the day. I have work at the barn and then going to try to relax. I'll keep you updated though.

[Maggiepie121493]

PS. That's a beautiful picture of Auda. She looks stunning.

[lisakaye]

Can you just go get them? I would wait until dark and take them. I can't stand someone who treats any animal like that.. If they can't see thme on your property maybe they wouldn't even care. Or can you take them some food and hay to at least give them something to tide them over?

[WashingtonBay]

Let us know... I do think at some point you're going to have to have your mom act on the complaint, with you right there to back her up. And take pictures. Send the authorities the pictures.

[luckydoublesranch]

Can you just go get them? I would wait until dark and take them. I can't stand someone who treats any animal like that.. If they can't see thme on your property maybe they wouldn't even care. Or can you take them some food and hay to at least give them something to tide them over?

I know it sooo hard to watch animals suffer but from a legal standpoint this is the WORST thing you can do. :( We run into similar situations at work from time to time where we get calls asking the same things...can we go get the animals? or...can we feed them? I know at first glance this seems like the right thing to do, but, it's not.
If you were to take the horses from the property...Not only are you stealing and could potentially have charges pressed against you (I know sometimes it seems worth it) but, it also leaves no chance for a good investigation to be done. The horse is then in your possession and without proper documentaion and investigation you in fact could be held liable for the neglect. Imagine this, and it has happened...you go take the starving emaciated horse from the property...bring them to your property and start feeding them...suddenly said horse colicks and dies overnight...you are left with the fact you stole a horse, have no way now to prove it was being neglected previously, have no way to prove YOU didn't inflict the abuse, and now the animals is dead in your possession. UGH! Not good! It also lessons the chance that the people neglecting the animals in the first place will ever face reprocussions for their actions.
I also understand that feeding these poor animals and their well-being is first on most of our minds. Again, unfortunately, giving them feed/water hinders the investigation process greatly. When a complaint is filed with an ASPCA office each state has different guidlines for deeming a case neglect/abuse etc. So, say you were to throw the neglected animals food and water daily and then call the SPCA and make a complaint about the animals NOT being fed and watered by their owners. Well, first off the animals are being cared for at this point (by you) and there is now no proof that the owners have neglected the animals because there will be food and water present on the property.
The best course of action when dealing with a situation like this is first report any situation that you truly believe is abuse/neglect to the proper authorities ASAP. Provide them with the neccessary information and then let them take care of it. :)

[FoxFireEMT]

Besides doing all that everyone else has said to do. Maybe you can contact a local horse rescue bring it to their attention & maybe if they can they will go in & if they feel they need to be ask the owners to turn the horses over to the rescue. I think doing it the way you are doing it now, is the best way but maybe if all else fails. I WOULD NOT go take the horses. That is illegal & you could get in some serious trouble. Allow the authorities handle it. I know it's hard but its *unfortantly* sometimes something we just have to deal with.

[Toodlestoo]

What about contacting PETA? They are always looking for a cause and might be able to help or point you in the right direction.

[Cat]

If nothing is being done - contact all the local news stations. Send the pictures along with the dates that authorities did not take action. They tend to be on these situations like bees are to honey. If the situation gets public notice, something is usually done.

[zoel_222]

PS. That's a beautiful picture of Auda. She looks stunning.

Thanks :)

So have you or your mom called yet?

[Maggiepie121493]

Well, someone went up this morning, my mom actually called the animal control guy last night. He finally went up and saw the horses. He admits they're malnutritioned and skinny but the guy's "working on it". He's going to go up every two weeks to check on them and he's taking pictures each week. So, I'm a bit satisfied that something's finally being done.

Then, the guy called us this morning furious saying how we should have grown the balls to come talk to him first and how we're not allowed up there and he has no trespassing signs (even though that doesn't do much because it's not technically his land) and then he just hangs up. We have tried to talk to him about 3-4 times before we even called, so he's full of it. But, something is finally being done and it's a step so I feel as least a little better. My mom said that we should leave it be and that there's nothing else we can really do now. I do feel a little bit better that something has finally happened though. I know they're not completely saved but at least someone's keeping an eye on them. I know it's not quite what I, and what it seems you all were hoping for, but I do feel better knowing we've done everything we can, and that it is time to let it go before it really gets out of hand in the legal part. Someone went up, knows they're skinny and is watching them. I'm happy, but not ecstatic.

[luckydoublesranch]

[quote= and that it is time to let it go before it really gets out of hand in the legal part. Someone went up, knows they're skinny and is watching them. I'm happy, but not ecstatic.[/quote]

I just wanted to make sure and your mom know that you are NOT doing anything illegal by reporting abuse. There's is nothing legally that anyone can charge you or accuse you of if you are indeed not trespassing. NOTE to everyone...Don't ever feel afraid to report legitimate abuse/neglect in fear of what might happen to you! ;)

[Remali]

Glad you reported the neglect and abuse of those poor horses. Good for you. I hope the humane officers do a follow-up. If it were me and the guy had actually called me and said all of that, heck I would report him to the police as harrassing me....but that is just me. ;)

[zoel_222]

Yay! I'm so glad something's being done. It's too bad that they can't just get the horses out of there now, or at least check on them every 3 days or once a week. At least the horses will be watched over some, though. I'm really glad you reported this, Maggie and helped make a difference in their lives. :)

PS Welcome to the forum :)

[Maggiepie121493]

Lol. Thanks for the welcome. It's hard but I'm trying to let it go. I plan to rescue horses when I'm older, but I know I can't hang myself on horses that I've tried to help but lost. It's hard but I know I've done my best to try and help not only the people, but when they were too blind the horses. I've done what I can and now it's time to move on. It'll just make me want to hug my two beautiful horses even tighter and make them fat with bigger and sweeter treats.

1751

1752

[Maggiepie121493]

The dark bay is Apollo and the chestnut is Jed.

Apollo's my work in progress. I've finally got him to understand "the walk"!!!! =]

[zoel_222]

You have some pretty horses. :) I'll look forward to hearing more about them.

[Maggiepie121493]

I've tried to start a blog about the dark bay one and my progress with him. The chestnut is more of a family horse that anyone can ride but the dark bay, well, I'd rather no one ride him because he'll test you to your limits if he doesn't know you. But, it's pretty much his training progress to help me keep up with my Challenge Course, 4H and soon to be Pony Club.