Um, teaching to lunge?

[Kaitlyn]

Hi all,

I'm working with a 7 year old who doesn't know how to lunge? I put him on the lunge line the other day and he just stared at me and backed away. Any tips on how to get him started? I read to start with a lead rope and work from there, etc. but I'm looking for a bit more information.

Thank ya :)

[WashingtonBay]

I wrote a big long thread at horse.com about this that might be helpful, and I'd like to copy the content over here anyway, so it's here and not lost.

I'm going to put it in quotes so you can tell what was part of the original content over there. (original thread: Lunging 101 - Teaching to lunge without a round pen (pic heavy and videos) (http://forum.horse.com/tm.asp?m=717089&mpage=1))

Hi everyone... by request of a friend here, lovesfortune, I've been asked to write something up and start a discussion on how to teach a horse to lunge on a line, without a round pen, and without ever having done it before. So I'm going to try to do that.http://forum.horse.com/image/s3.gif

OK - for starters, you need a horse, an open field that is fairly smooth, a long line, and a lunge whip. I also have, for these pictures and videos, the cooperative assistance of my husband as my model. And he's a pretty good example, in the early photos, he was quite green, and so was his horse, at lunging anyway. I didn't take pictures FOR this explanation, but I tried to find, from among our photos, pictures that I think demonstrate well enough.

The first key is to get the horse moving forward without you being in front leading. Position yourself at the horse's side, provide her with enough line to move in a small circle around you, and urge her forward. Arms up and active, line hand ready to feed out line, whip arm gesturing and pushing her from behind. You want to position yourself so that you are behind and facing the horse's hip... this puts you in a better position to help move the horse forward. In the diagram below, I've also put the horse in a corner of the pasture, as this will help turn them on at least those two sides. In the beginning, be happy with almost any forward movement, I'm not giving a command for a specific gait, and keep the circle small. Give clear commands... "Move out!", "Good!http://forum.horse.com/image/s1.gif" Here's a diagram showing the horse moving in a small circle. Notice that the handler, in the beginning is also moving in a circle inside the horse's circle, driving forward, staying behind at the hip.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/lungingillustration.jpg

Here is my husband demonstrating on his mare:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/DSCN7090.jpg

When they are moving forward, praise and don't interfere. Your body language needs to be just aggressive enough to keep them moving, not too much or too little. Too much, and they'll go faster. Too little, and they'll stop, and face you. This is a fine balance that is different for every horse. And this is one of the best lessons of lunging: Learning to read the body language of your horse, learning how she thinks, and learning to use your body and voice to give and enforce clear directions.

Here's a few snapshots of me lunging my Bay, note different body positions relative to the horse, body language, hand gestures, and how they affect the horse. The more advanced the horse gets, the more subtle and complicated your gestures can be, and the more you can remain standing and direct the horse with voice and hand signals.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/DSCN5318.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/DSCN5322.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/DSCN5326.jpg

And now back to hubby and Cyn... this was probably taken one of the first days we ever lunged her when we first got her. He's behind her, driving her forward, she's not on enough line to get in too much trouble, but enough line to move forward freely. Gosh she was a skinny thing back then.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/DSCN5660.jpg

And then sometimes this happens. Momentum lost, lines and whip in a tangle, horse gets flustered and confused and comes in.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/DSCN5661.jpg

In the beginning, just stop, collect yourself and the horse, get back in position and start her over. You may have to actually push the horse out and forward.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/05-31-07002.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/05-31-07004.jpg

Another moment of confusion. She's stopped. Hubby's not giving a clear signal here, not sure which way she's supposed to be going, he just brings her in and starts her over.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/04-22-06009.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/04-22-06010.jpg

And going nicely again... (different day)

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/03-06-07001.jpg

When they are learning, be patient. There will be moments of frustration, you just have to work through them to get to the breakthrough, and don't worry about mistakes, on either of your part. They're part of the learning process for both of you about how each other think and solve problems. When they get it, say good! And let them keep going long enough to know what they're really doing, then stop and praise and relax.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/03-06-07019.jpg

When they are mostly going forward, then the next key is to tell them when and how to stop. I use "WOAH", and will then give a series of increasing line corrections until they stop.

"WOAH"

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m270/WashingtonBay/04-22-05066.jpg

(she says.... "what?")

Always lots of praise when they stop. If they stop out on the circle, good! Go to them and praise, if they come in to you in the beginning, I don't mind that either. The key is they're listening and changing gears, coming in and looking for guidance. Trying to enforce a stop ON the circle at this early stage, with these crude tools, is difficult and confusing.

Other words to start being clear on: Walk, trot, canter. Canter, trot, woah. Walk, Canter, trot, walk, woah. Some of these transitions will be easier than others. I actually start them mostly at the trot, it's a nice forward gait with enough momentum to keep going and not get distracted. I actually find the walk to be one of the most difficult gaits to teach on the lunge for most horses, because the balance between pushing too hard and not enough is harder to achieve! Too little, and they're grazing. Too much, and they break into a trot.

The way you phrase these words can help or hinder the horse's understanding of them. Spoken plainly, "Walk" and "trot" have the same vowel sound. They need to be spoken with distinct inflection to make them sound different and clear. Also "Woah" and "Lope" can sound the same, so I use "Canter" instead. And I use my voice to help give the appropriate energy for the transition:
"Waaaaaaa-aaaaalk" I say long and low... like a fog horn.... sloooow dowwwwwn.
"Tee-rot!" Crisp and chirpy, indicating you want a brisk, springy trot.
"Can-Ter!" Same as above... said with energy.
"WOAH". Loud, low, final. I only use "WOAH" if I want a complete stop. Never for just "slow down", for that I use "eeeeeeeasy".

Don't be afraid to sound goofy and animated! This is no time to be shy or subdued. Speak loudly and clearly. Here's a video of me giving most of the basic commands, again with our mare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7nXSMBf6bo

Just a bit more on correction of errors before I close this out... There will be lots of hills and valleys in this learning curve, and the tendency for them to stop and face you will return at each new frustration you try to work them through. At first, I just go to them and start them over... they don't know better. Later on, I will attempt to restart them without that contact, as I'm doing here. She's gotten flustered and stopped, I am fluttering the line at her and trying to s

~On edit 8/10/08~ ^ It just cuts off there! It appears the end of longer posts were lost in the crash and my last few pictures and examples were cut off... bummer. I think it went on to give a few pictures of restarting on the fly and getting them moving again.

Update again today.... I'll try to re-create some of those examples as needed here

[ImaBronsonBear]

Um, everything WB said.:D Start on a small circle, stay calm and patient, and stay out of kicking distance.

[Kaitlyn]

Ok maybe I'm missing something, did the above instructions but he's just not getting it. I'm getting frustrated with him because he is constantly backing up, constantly. He won't stand still it seems and when I approach him to either walk on the lead or attempt to lunge he just backs up and stares at me, so I guess I'm going to go back to square one and ask why he won't move forward? Anytime I ask or pull on the lead he moves back and I'm not understanding.

[WashingtonBay]

Be at his side or hip, nudge him forward with a clear instruction.... "Move out" and it's associated clicks or kissing that will help encourage. You may have to tap his behind with the whip.

And make sure he's got a free head and enough line to move. If you've got a second hand sometimes someone on the outside can help get him started but in the end, you just have to work through the confusion, do what you need to do to get forward movement, and then when they do that, try not to interfere! Be more assertive, and more clear.

[Palogal]

You also might need to work the whip a little. If he's backing he may be afraid of it. Rub it all over him and show him that it doesn't bite, it cues. I start mine by teaching them to yield with it. They they learn that it doesn't hurt but the pressure will get higher if they don't cooperate.

I guess that's clear as mud huh...oh let me try again.

On the ground...lunge line attached...
I rub the whip all over the horse until they stand and let me. I tap the hip with the whip. If the horse doesn't move I continue to tap and press with a hand until he moves. Repeat until the tap moves the hip.

Same things with the front, I tap the neck just in front of the shoudler then use the hand until a tap moves the shoulder.

Then we actually lunge. Use the front cue to move the horse away to the outside of the circle and then hold the whip behind the horse and cluck or kiss to get them to move forward. If they turn in, yield the forehand and start again.

It usually does't take long.

[cloedoll]

Well, I think everyone here stated everything possible, lol. WashingtonBay, that was a GREAT post. Palogal made an excellent point as well.

walk on the lead or attempt to lunge he just backs up and stares at me

So, he can not even be led around with a halter and lead on? If so, I wouldn't even attempt lunging until he knows the basics. Unless I read that post wrong.

Also, if you feel you are getting frustrated or don't have the experience or patience to teach him this, there's nothing wrong with that. I think (if that's the case) it would be better for someone else to teach him what you are.

[WashingtonBay]

So, he can not even be led around with a halter and lead on? If so, I wouldn't even attempt lunging until he knows the basics. Unless I read that post wrong.

Certainly... the horse should lead and tie and know the basics... I bet he does. At seven, I was assuming he rides, just may not have ever been lunged, or at least, lunged in your language.


Also, if you feel you are getting frustrated or don't have the experience or patience to teach him this, there's nothing wrong with that. I think (if that's the case) it would be better for someone else to teach him what you are.Certainly if there's someone around with a lot of experience who can help... use 'em! But this is something you can and should be able to figure out on your own, too. The horse has a 'go' button somewhere. Your job is to figure out how to communicate and find it, whether it's positioning, voice, movements, or a combination of dances and chants ;) that will make this horse 'go'. Try everything, try to apply pressures without just flustering and confusing. Reward attempts to comply, and eventually, the light will go on, the horse will begin to move out, and you'll both know more about each other when you're done. :)

[Kaitlyn]

Well, I went back and forgot about lunging until he's respectful on the lead. He stops at the gate, every time. He's fine all the way around the arena until the gate. Then he backs up. He backs up very well (haha) but won't walk past the gate, and god forbid he trot in hand as well. Lunging will have to wait until the ground manners are established.

At 7 he's as green as green can get. He's been an expensive pasture pet, until I came along.

[cloedoll]

Cloe was ten and green, so I can understand that, haha. I agree with what you said, definitely get respect from him on the lead, stall, everything, before lunging...although lunging can help with getting respect, but if he can't lead well, I'd focus on that first.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, then.... the gate sounds like a terrific opportunity to teach lunging and respect at the same time.

Lead him along past the gate with your lunge whip behind you in your off hand. When he stops, don't try to pull him forward, stay at his shoulder and pop him in the butt with the whip. Walk him in this circle till he'll keep going both directions. Use voice and back it up with the whip - if he backs up.... ACK! Pop him in the butt.

Begin transitioning to him lunging in a small circle around you at the gate. His gate sour habit has some advantages you can use in your favor. He's self- motivated to go forward for half the circle, you only need to enforce the second half, and you can be ready and waiting for that.

[Maggiepie121493]

With my horse, he knew generally how to lunge but not really.

I just made sure that my commands were loud and clear, and I would say them in a stern and assertive voice, and once he did what I asked it instantly turned to praise. I find that if you want them to go faster a faster voice helps them get up and a slower to slow down. If I want him to speed up his trot, a nice sharp "Trot trot!" and to slow down from a canter into a trot in a nice deep loud voice, "Trooooot". I always start out walking to so he knows this isn't crazy wild time and I only canter when he's warmed up because a tight circle can put a lot of stress on joints. I make sure I'm at his hip and only use the whip when he's being lazy or getting too close (he just loooves his mommy =]) And a nice sharp "Out!" works along with pointing the whip to keep his distance. Sometimes though, if he's getting too lazy and is ignoring me I'll tend to get a bit more behind him and use the whip along with my voice commands.

Sorry if it's a bit jumbled.

But, I find this has worked for me. When we first started I lunged him with a chain only because he would not stop galloping in circles if I didn't have reinforcement. I was never too harsh with it though, only if he was really out of control. But, in a couple weeks he's gone from galloping in circles to walk, trot, canter, halt(I thought he'd never learn =P) trotting poles and small jumps on the lunge. And it helped a ton with him under saddle!

[Kaitlyn]

Thanks for all the great advice guys :)

We worked on both leading and lunging on just the lead line, lead him around the arena with crop in opposite hand and commanded to 'walk on' past the gate, he did very well and continued until I felt we could move onto lunging err him moving in a circle around me lol. He did well! I was so excited he got it! I just used a crop and he responded very well to me being behind his shoulder and commanding to 'move out' he did get a few pops on the butt today but he caught on VERY well, we just did walking at a fast pace on the line but I thought that was good enough for the first day.

Thanks WB for the advice at starting to lunge at the gate. Perfect PERFECT spot to start and he responded very well.

So tomorrow I'm going to brave the COLD *argh* and he and I will continue working, he was good when his left shoulder was facing me, but couldn't reverse and he can't walk on my right side, just yet.

New question, when he's being run around the arena to blow some steam off, he (again) doesn't respect the gate, I've been told he's literally ran through it multiple times. There's no door to be closed to this gate (in the indoor) it's just a board across the entry way and he doesn't respect it in the least. And he will literally dance in place if someone is on the other side with a whip or crop because he doesn't know what to do. How can I get him to STOP running into it?

[WashingtonBay]

Sounds like good progress! Congratulations. :)

You can't stop him from running into the board when he's loose. If it's an inadequate barrier I wouldn't run him loose in there. Answer is it needs a better barrier.