Something is bugging me about jumping postions...

[All4Grace]

It may be the old school h/j in me but it really bothers me to see younger riders today taught to throw themselves on the the horses neck during their release. I can see it if your jumping a HUGE jump, but I see this postion over small 1-2' jumps.

I'm I just outta touch? Is this the new jumping postion?? I mean I KNOW you need to bend at the hips but some of these young riders are flat out on the horses neck!! not centered and giving a nice release.


PLEASE enlighten me!

on the sims game I play kids are posting their jumping photos and I bite my tongue really hard to not say anything.

[EnglishGuy]

Can you post any examples?

For the most part I see people getting in the correct position. I've never seen anyone throwing themself out of the saddle and onto the horses neck. I know that no sane instructor would teach that kind of position since it is so insecure and dangerous.

My instructors all teach to "be tall" and not too far foward but far enough out of your saddle to get the job done.

[All4Grace]

I don't have any photos I can post, I will look around.

[WashingtonBay]

I guess I agree I see an awful lot of kids "overjumping" little jumps. We've gotta remember that a lot of these kids are just learning, and every jump is a new challenge to hit the right balance, and every one has a hint of a dream that they are jumping Grand Prix. :)

[AUEquine]

There's some fine lines there. I understand with young kids first learning to jump, you want to teach them to get off the horses back. They obviously don't have the balance leaned yet to move with the horse, so you force them into this high and safe posistion. But this doesn't need to be the end. As the child gets more comfortable with jumping they should begin to move with the horse over the jump.

I agree that I see this alot, and I think it's just poor coaching or lack of coaching at all.... I can't stand backyard jumpers! The end result should really be minimal change in the riders posistion. They should bend at the hip to bring their seat slightly off the saddle, and posistion themselves over the horses center of gravity. And as the horse jumps their posistion follows the horses center of gravity.

One of the big things I've noticed at the last hunter show I went to was the size of the children's posting. And these were not beginners. This was one of the medal equitation classes and these kids were almost completely straightening their legs when they posted, and going straight up and down. I can't believe what some of these places are teaching.

[RipSpark]

Yeah you see that alot especially at hunter shows. Most of the hunter riders I know do it. That and then they like to stick their butts in the air. I have seen that ever since I was younger. You see it in x-rails, 2ft classes, all the way up. And yeah I agree it is a bit different when you are talking about 4ft showjumping fences etc, but 2 feet, really?

[outriding01]

It's a trend, and a really stupid one at that. RipSpark is right in that you see it most often in the hunter ring, since it can't really be penalized there. It's mostly the younger crowd copying the big time riders without realizing that there's a reason the big time riders jump like this.... They're jumping big time jumps! A good equitation foundation is very important for Grand Prix riders, but looking pretty only goes so far. At that height, you mostly just want to get as far out of the way of the horse as possible, and it isn't always technically correct. When you're doing the children's or junior hunters, there's no excuse for not trying to be technically correct.

Suprisingly, this fad hasn't carried over to the jumper ring the way you would expect. Of course you see sloppy riding, because there's also an epidemic of people starting on jumpers before having a solid enough foundation in correct hunt seat riding, but among the jumper riders who actually belong there, it's not as prevalent. They mostly realize they need to stick to function over form and that at the lower levels, throwing yourself at your horse's neck is not condusive to keeping rails up and going faster than everyone else....

[All4Grace]

It's a trend, and a really stupid one at that. RipSpark is right in that you see it most often in the hunter ring, since it can't really be penalized there. It's mostly the younger crowd copying the big time riders without realizing that there's a reason the big time riders jump like this.... They're jumping big time jumps! A good equitation foundation is very important for Grand Prix riders, but looking pretty only goes so far. At that height, you mostly just want to get as far out of the way of the horse as possible, and it isn't always technically correct. When you're doing the children's or junior hunters, there's no excuse for not trying to be technically correct.

Suprisingly, this fad hasn't carried over to the jumper ring the way you would expect. Of course you see sloppy riding, because there's also an epidemic of people starting on jumpers before having a solid enough foundation in correct hunt seat riding, but among the jumper riders who actually belong there, it's not as prevalent. They mostly realize they need to stick to function over form and that at the lower levels, throwing yourself at your horse's neck is not condusive to keeping rails up and going faster than everyone else....


AMEN!!!


WB-Most of the riders I see doing this are not beginners, most however are either "backyard" jumpers OR students of coaches the PUSH to the TOP!! :mad:
Either way, I would not teach my students to throw themselves on teh neck for balance. Grab mane, nice even forward release.

I see many with their arms are either side of the neck and their chest completely touching the neck and withers, they are literally laying on their horses necks. Very much ahead of their mounts and in perfect position to take a nasty nose-dive if the hrose should choose to stop!!

[Palogal]

I kind of accept that from my beginners because it's new to them and they don't have all of the muscle control to fold "just enough". I rag endlessly on my more advanced riders to be balanced and control their motion, it gets pretty hard with the big jumps. It's the inertia of the horse moving up and forward that will throw a beginner on to the neck. As they progress they learn how to balance and counteract the inertia and jump correctly. I don't see many good jumpers thrown onto the neck unless it's a mistake, long/short spot, rider error or something like that.

[Jump The Moon]

I know what you mean - a rider at a jumper show i rode in said to me "Ha, you're rubbish, you bend at your hips but you're not on his neck enough!" <-- this was in our 'warmup class' at 2'. I ignored the comment, because I know I'm not perfect, far from it, but I don't want to through myself on Billy's neck and my position does generally stay in balance with him and give a good release and go with him. I have faults though, too.
But it's nice to know that maybe these ''over-jumpers'' are the ones whom maybe need to sit up a little more. I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it though :P

[missyfritz]

I know what you mean. I've competed in a few h/j shows and it seems like the riders that do throw themselves onto their horses necks lose a lot of balance too, especially if their horse refuses the jump. Is it just me or does is seem like the riders have a greater chance of being thrown over the head of their horse if the horse refuses? :rolleyes: lame trends!

[Palogal]

I know what you mean. I've competed in a few h/j shows and it seems like the riders that do throw themselves onto their horses necks lose a lot of balance too, especially if their horse refuses the jump. Is it just me or does is seem like the riders have a greater chance of being thrown over the head of their horse if the horse refuses? :rolleyes: lame trends!
EXACTLY!
That's why the jumpers jump little "tripping hazards" until they stop that.

[All4Grace]

I have been taught and in return I teach LEG STRENGTH! I personally think that some instructors are letting their kids start jumping too early!! And the kids lack the strength to hold themselves up so they tend to flop over. I can understand using the neck for balance, as in hands on neck grabbing mane bent at the hips, legs under you. What I am refering to is the flat on the neck...
I am going to allow myself for critique. I will post one of the worst jumping photos ever taken of me (the worst mysteriouly got deleted from the computer ;)
I am doing what I call my superman postion, standing inthe stirrups, not bent at the hips, WAY ahead of the horse, I will then "draw" in what the postion I see kids doing.

*off to find the photo*

SUPERMAN!
look how too far ahead I am, my stirrups are too long and my leg to far back, i am not release enough and I am not bending at the hips.
Feel free to add more critque, I use this photo as a what not to do:
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/jumpinjavatb/oldNnew081.jpg

I drew in (not very well) but a basic idea of the postion I am seeing, the YELLOW stick figure is the "new" postion. very far forward, onthe neck, elbows on either side of the neck. the RED stick figure is more of an ideal postion, leg more under the hip, bent nicely at the hip just behind the pommel, hands on neck for balance.
Feel free to add or correct anything there too. :)
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/jumpinjavatb/ajump.jpg

[Vibe]

YouTube - Horse-neck riding style jumping

[KittySawrus]

But it's nice to know that maybe these ''over-jumpers'' are the ones whom maybe need to sit up a little more. I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it though :P

Maybe not, but it's true. I thought that over-jumping was "the way" for a while, I saw it so much, but now I'm being taught to jump so much better, and as we jump higher it is much easier to fold properly.
To learn to jump like that isn't the best way, IMO.
Do you think it's better, if you have to, to jump a little backwards than too forwards?

I see many with their arms are either side of the neck and their chest completely touching the neck and withers, they are literally laying on their horses necks. Very much ahead of their mounts and in perfect position to take a nasty nose-dive if the hrose should choose to stop!!

That's another thing!! CHICKEN WINGS!! AAAH! I hate D:

http://community.livejournal.com/bad_riding there's some amazing stuff on here...

[HobbyHorse101]

Alot of Hunter trainer's teach their students to ride like that because they think it makes the horse look like they are putting more effort into the fence, because they have to snap their knees up just to get over 3' but they have flat hallow backs and cannot go much higher. Which is why my Childrens hunter is still bellying over 3' easy but gets super round and perfect over 3'9...(He's still a little flat over 3'6) I try hard not to ride like that and I will spend my own riding time without stirrups and doing grids to teach myself to keep my leg in place and let my horse come up to me..Some horses do push their riders out of the tack like that though so in some (rare, but my little RTR does it) It is the horse pushing the rider up but you can usually tell because those that are using their horses neck legs have slipped way back and those who are not legs are where they should be.

[Horserider]

Are they teaching that now? I thought that was called jumping ahead of the horse and was a major nono.

[HobbyHorse101]

Some trainers are, they really think it makes the horse look like they are jumping "Better" I feel terrible for the horses who's riders do this because they are getting pushed onto their forhand and they jump hollow not to mention what their mouths get handled when their riders dont release.

[All4Grace]

cloedoll sent me this link...

THIS is the "new" jumping postion...

I cringed at all but one...
http://community.livejournal.com/bad_riding/259418.html#cutid1


Try that!

[Vibe]

It said page not found for me...

[missyfritz]

same here...

[All4Grace]

I fixed it

http://community.livejournal.com/bad_riding/259418.html#cutid1

[missyfritz]

the first couple look like febreeze commercials! hahahaha! that cowboy magic must smell real good! :whack: