Issues with Missy

[Country Girl 43]

Well we worked with Missy today.

We loosened her back cinch, we changed her bit, made sure her breast collar wasn't too tight. I rode her first, warmed up, went around the barrel pattern and she did good. Cheyenne rode her around the barrrel pattern and she was fine, Nico did the same thing.

Then when Chy went to ride her again.....coming home she started throwing her head and was going to buck again. Chy got her stopped before she could throw a buck, but what the he!! is going on?

I watched Chy ride her, she kept a loose rein and even then Missy would drop her head and pull forward, like she was trying to pull the reins out of Chy's hand. Missy threw her head once with Nico, but he pulled her around before she could do anything nasty.

I finally got back on her, and made her MOVE, backwards, forwards, in circles, whatever to let her know we are NOT going to have an attitude.

So what else could be the problem?? She didn't do this before. We are using the same saddle we used before. I am just lost....:huh:

[vicklynn]

Hon, you havent had her that long to know her quirks. I say, keep doing what your doing IF and when she acts up. Let the kids ride her, it seems they know her well enough to catch her in time, then you get on and work the heck out of her. I would also teach the kids to back the heck(he!!) out of her before you get on and work the crapola out of her. Stay close, supervise, and square her away.

Question. Did you put the kids back on her after you squared her away? Might try it. Bet she gets the idea.

[Country Girl 43]

Yeah, I put the kids back on her. I'm just confused about her head pulling....trying to pull the reins out of our hands.

I think we are just going to take Missy to the Gymkhana so I can concentrate on her and not have to worry about Dallas. I rode him today to and he did great!

[jeezitsjacki]

could it be the bit? do you know how much exerisize she was getting at her old home? Maybe she is being worked less with you so she has more energy. Has her food changed? Im just trying to think up some random things... Ben sometimes pulls his head forward with the reigns and I just smack his reigns against his neck a little to tell him to knock it off.. but he has never threatened to buck because of it..

[IrisGreen]

I rode a horse that was like that. He would try to pull the reins out of your hand all the time. He was a TB/Arab cross with tons of energy so I figured it was that. He knew how to give to the bit if you stopped him and asked for it. It would take him a bit and he wouldn't want too but then he would calm down and get with the program but once you were riding he would jerk his head forward to pull the reins even on a lose rein.

I have no idea what his issue was. He wasn't my horse and the owner wasn't that understanding with him. She would just tie his head down and lunge him with his head to his chest....She said that fixed it for a while... Heck, maybe that's why he did it in the first place? He was happy to be moving with out his head in his chest.

Does she give to the bit? Teeth checked? Bit pinching lip? Just blurting off ideas.

I'm interested in hearing how to correct it or why a horse would do that. I'm sure someone has had this happen and knows how to correct it... I will check back :)

[ImaBronsonBear]

It could be that Missy has learned how to push your kid's buttons and learned how to get them off her back.:( Unfortunately, some horses just have that ultra-smart personality that will take advantage of a novice rider every chance they get. Bronson is exactly like that, with me he's perfect, with others he's a perfect idiot. Not bad idiot, he just has a "i don't wanna trot - make me" attitude. But the only reason he's only gotten that bad is because i ride him most of the time. Some horses just have that test-test-test personality that does not do well with young/novice riders.

[JackieB]

I can comment on tossing the head forward and pulling the reins. Of course, there isn't just one reason why horses do it, but I have it figured out with Buster after several years. Sometimes, it's just a bad habit with him going back to before I owned Buster and his previous owner was in his mouth all the time with a shanked bit. He had good reason back then. But those days are long gone. Nobody would ever accuse me of being in his mouth now. Other times, it's attitude - he's arguing with me. He's a pretty dominant horse and yanking the reins forward and giving himself a release (even if I had no pressure on the reins to start with) is a way for him to gain some control.

Of course, it may be too early to make any such judgments with Missy. But I know for sure that it's a behavioral issue with my horse that isn't related to comfort at all. So, I work with Buster with firmness, but patience.

[Country Girl 43]

I have thought about using a curb bit, but wondering if that might be too much. But like I said, I made sure the kids had a loose rein yesterday. I think I videoed at least one of them riding yesterday, so after work I will see if I can download the video.

I know she pulled on the bit before we bought her, but she NEVER bucked. And we went out there for 2 weeks with Cheyenne riding her and loping her and just running around and doing patterns.

Like I mentioned, I am totally lost....:huh:

[JackieB]

I'll look forward to seeing the video. I know another horse who will try to buck (he doesn't have much in him) every time someone asks him to canter. Yet he tears around like crazy when he's playing in the yard and everything. We're sure it's just his way of saying that he doesn't want to canter.

[luvs2ride1979]

She may have changed shape and her saddle might not be fitting as well as it used to. Put it on without any pad and see how it sets on her. Feel around underneath it. You should feel even pressure front to back.

When the kids get on and off, make sure the saddle hasn't shifted any. Hold a stirrup while they get on if they ground mount.

Have you had her teeth checked recently? She could be growing some sharp points or wolf teeth. That would explain her recent change in behavior.

Have you changed her feed or gotten a new load of hay in? An incease in "energy" from different feeds or a new cutting of hay can cause silly behavior.

[WashingtonBay]

I think we'd like to assume if we do everything to assure our horse's complete comfort and happiness they will never misbehave.

I just don't think it's true ;)

It's possible she's just getting comfortable with you, and your kids. I've found most horses will take care of kids, almost without exception.... for awhile. But when those kids start riding like real riders, they'll test them like real riders. So they need to get past that. And she needs to get past that... with you, and with the kids. The honeymoon period is over. Now comes the relationship. :)

[Miracle Whip]

Not all horses are going to be like Ladybird. It takes a special horse to put up with 2 or 3 kids and being asked to run the barrel pattern. I would consider working this horse on her gaits and giving to the rein versus lets run the barrel pattern now. Does she know how to flex? Honest, if you asked my mare to carry 2 kids around barrels she'd be a total brat. Missy is just testing you and you are doing the right thing.

I'd lay off the barrels for a bit. You can still run her, but don't do the barrel pattern. Do figure eights or canter her along the rail and do a small circle periodically. This will help her with her barrel racing anyway. I went to a BR clinic last spring and all they did was do slow work. Slow canter around cones, the small circle off the rail, etc etc.

I have to keep Whip well trained for my husband. A lot of people that have horses for their kids will hop on and make them mind. Its not unusual. From what I've heard, Ladybrid was a Saint. You need to keep spending time with Missy....

[Country Girl 43]

Jackie...sorry no video tonight...got home late and I need to get to bed to we can get to the arena early. But I will try tomorrow night.

Luvs...I just had her teeth floated. Even posted pics here of the proceedure. :)

WB...I think you are right. Time to stop babying her and MAKE her work. That's why we bought her.

Miracle...I know....we will never find another horse like Ladybird. :( Missy has done barrels and poles in the past. My kids don't ride hard. They have mostly trotted through the patterns, and they lope home. They are not speed demons by any means. Cheyenne's time on the barrels are on the 30's and 40's...LOL They were in the 50's and 60's on Ladybird, but I MADE them keep her slowed down because she was old. I tell them to hold Missy back, because she is alot of horse and we got her for them to move up to. Oh...and yes she can flex really well. One rein stop works better on her than the regular plant your butt and pull back on two reins.

We are just taking Missy to the Gymkhana tomorrow. I am going to work her before the events start. I think she is just trying to get the better of us. Where she came from those kids could ride!!! My kids aren't that good, but the only way they are going to learn is by having to deal with issues like Missy is having. I just hope they both have a "velcro butt".

I have my video camera charged too, so everything will be on video tomorrow. We will get to the bottom of this one way or another, but I have a feeling WB is right.

[gaited07]

I think WB hit the nail on the head with this one.

Good luck with the competition tomorrow.

[pandorasmom]

WB...I think you are right. Time to stop babying her and MAKE her work. That's why we bought her.

I'm not one for much advice normally as I'm always getting it instead of giving. :p
However, I do know with Pandora I was been and sometimes still are to easy on her and letting her cop out of things on the ground and undersaddle.
On the ground if I was lunging her and she decided to stop or change gaits,etc. I'd let her at random. Then I realized I was just basically letting her do what she wanted when she wanted. Since then I've got her where most of the time she will "cruise" at a walk, trot or canter on the lunge leash, until I let her stop. Or if I am trying to back her, she'll step one foot back and be like, "That's good right mom?" I saw that wasn't a "good enough" back. She knew how to back, but she'd only give a few steps. So I watched Clinton's way of doing it, read his book section on doing it and went back to the draw board on how to approach it. I did it that away (wiggle wave walk whack) and it worked. I asked for a few steps initally then increased them gradually, as I know I have to have a starting point and reward her for doing the right thing.
Undersaddle I can't suggest much as I'm still working with her. But I have been riding bareback alot and working on her whoaing by seat commands. She does good sometimes and sometimes doesn't. I'm using Clinton's ways he showed on the How to Stop DVD. Where you run her down the fence, sit back without rein pressure, and if she doesn't stop turn her into the fence and make her start bending 3 or 4 circles. I was doing this , but I was letting her go to long from the time I set back to the time she woahed. She'd walked another 4 or 5 steps then stop. I watched my dvd two times and on the second time I picked up on the fact he didn't wait that long before turning his horse. I give her the benefit of the doubt and give her a chance to do right (like CA says) but if she doesn't I make her bend in a few circles and go right back to do what we doing until she stops when I set back. We're still working on this and once I get my new saddle in I'm hoping it will help ALOT because I'll have something to help me keep my "seat" better. Riding bareback right now it's hard to do alot of turns and bends,etc. because I slide off so easy. lol :P Anyways, point being I was and sometimes still treat her as my precious and need to crack the "whip" so to speak. LOL She still knows I love her and I've never hit her meanly, but she knows what I expect of her now too. I'm not saying your being easy or hard with Missy, just saying I know how easy it is, to not work them enough and then have to get a little firmer so they get the clear message.

All I can say is good luck with the competition and I hope you can work things out. I know the frustration level there and it's not fun. HUGS

[Vegashorselady]

I think WB may be right as well. Teach the kids to do a one rein stop on her and then yield her hind quarters and make her back. If they practice this when everything is going well it will be a pattern both they and missy know well. Then, when things go wrong and Missy starts to toss her head they will automaticaly know what to do before things get to far. The one rein stop will keep her from bucking and the yield and back up will get Missy's feet busy and district her mind from bucking. You getting on and correcting Missy will only help so much, if the kids can learn to straighten things out and get some respect from her they will be much safer. They're good little riders and they can do it!

[Me'N'Chic]

Hmmm CG--I am glad you posted this because back in November i made a post that for the first time in the 8 months I had owned Chic, she did a similiar thing with me too! I had ridden her almost daily for months with practically no problem; them in November she did a similiar "pull reins and do a little buck type move" when I was cantering. I thought where in the heck is this coming from!

Since then, she hasn't done the "buck-type" move any more but she has shown a little attitude and tugged at the reins a few times. I am still trying to figure out what the deal is too. One thing that is different with us is that I had her alone and then shortly after I got Sony I moved them together. They get along great and are best buds; but I have noticed that she is a little dominant over Sony. So... I wondered since now that she is dominant over another horese, could she be testing me and trying to gain dominance over me too? Just a thought, and I am working on it and trying to see if that is it or something else.....

Sounds like for you and the kids--this is a test for you as well--hang in there sounds like you are on the right track--once you get thru this the kids will have learned alot and WILL be better riders--I am looking forward to videos!

[luvs2ride1979]

My kids don't ride hard. They have mostly trotted through the patterns, and they lope home. They are not speed demons by any means.

This is a very bad habit to teach. It can make horses barn sour and in a rush to be done and go home. The kids need to walk, slowly, all the way home. Even trotting can encourage a horse to "rush" home.

You also didn't address my concerns about saddle fit and possible slipping. A horse can be "fine" at first with a slightly ill fitting or slipped saddle, then become agitated the more you ride.

[WashingtonBay]

I think she's talking about the pole and barrel pattern "home" stretch luvs, not a trail ride.

[luvs2ride1979]

Since then, she hasn't done the "buck-type" move any more but she has shown a little attitude and tugged at the reins a few times. I am still trying to figure out what the deal is too. One thing that is different with us is that I had her alone and then shortly after I got Sony I moved them together. They get along great and are best buds; but I have noticed that she is a little dominant over Sony. So... I wondered since now that she is dominant over another horese, could she be testing me and trying to gain dominance over me too? Just a thought, and I am working on it and trying to see if that is it or something else.....

It could also be that she wants to go back to her friend. My mare head tosses like crazy and throws in a few crow-hops when we first start working them apart in the spring. They are inseparable in the pasture. When one leaves to work, the other goes NUTS! Even if someone stays behind to work the one not going out. The one that goes out usually settles down quickly, especially after a few rides, but whoever gets left behind throws a hissy fit, lol.

Mark, my gelding, will gallop back and forth, calling like crazy, the WHOLE TIME my mare is gone, even if it's been 2-3 hours. We'll come home and he'll be losing his voice and covered in foam and sweat. If you try to tie him up to make him stand (which we've only done supervised), he'll pull back and break the halter or pull the post up. If you try to do some ground training with him, he won't listen, at all, no matter what you try. And don't even THINK about trying to get on him... It's something we're going to try to work on this year. I think I'm going to employ the use of some pharmaceuticals, lol. We tried a low dose of Ace one time (about the same amount we use for sheath cleaning). It didn't work at all... A gaited field trial trainer friend of mine mentioned some "horse Prozac" that sound promissing. I'll have to see what my vet thinks.

[luvs2ride1979]

I think she's talking about the pole and barrel pattern "home" stretch luvs, not a trail ride.

AHH! Okay, gotcha, lol. Duh :o

[zoel_222]

Maybe it's just a back issue not related to her tack. My first step (after checking all the tack) would be to get a chiropractor out there and see what's going on.

[jeezitsjacki]

how did it go at the Gymkhana? did she give anymore attitude?

[Country Girl 43]

Zoel...I am getting the chiro out nest month. She only comes to AZ once a month. But I figured it can't hurt to have her out and see what's going on.

Jeezitsjacki....I posted in General....we had a great time today and got it figured out. woohoo!!! :happydance::happydance: Missy is so much fun to ride!! Chy needs to get her confidence back up and build more strength in those little arms. Missy is just walking all over her right now!