Palin found to have abused powers

[Remali]

Just saw this today.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/us/politics/11trooper.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink&oref=slogin

[WashingtonBay]

In their opinion.

I guess what it boils down to imho, is that they couldn't find anything actionable, just a difference of opinion in how she should have acted.

[palomino]

To me, it sounded like the idiot NEEDED firing, and happened to be her former brother in law. Who cares? They didnt have anything to dig up on her, so now they are calling her authority abuse now.

[Remali]

To me it sounded like Palin was using her powers for her own personal revenge.....but, well, who knows....

[palomino]

REVENGE!!!! LOL I was picturing homer simpson LOL

[Harleys Owner]

To me it sounded like Palin was using her powers for her own personal revenge.....but, well, who knows....

So you don't have a problem with a cop tazering a kid or hunting out of season?

[WashingtonBoy]

So you don't have a problem with a cop tazering a kid or hunting out of season? And don't forget drinking on duty.

[WashingtonBay]

To me it sounded like Palin was using her powers for her own personal revenge.....but, well, who knows....

To me it sounds like a fairly complex set of relationships and perhaps they aren't always as clean and neat and easily definable as we'd like.

[Harleys Owner]

And don't forget drinking on duty.

And that too:)

[Harleys Owner]

And while you are watching this thread:)

Is there anywhere to click on a post to see what post is being responded from?

[Remali]

You lost me there.....what does a cop tazering someone have to do with Palin????

[palomino]

Thats what her brother in law did to someone.

[WashingtonBay]

And while you are watching this thread:)

Is there anywhere to click on a post to see what post is being responded from?

Only if it's quoted, at least in part. There is a trackback link in the quote that will go back to the post it's in response to. See the little arrow by your name?

But not if you just make a comment. I know... it would be nice.

[Harleys Owner]

You lost me there.....what does a cop tazering someone have to do with Palin????

Well...not that kids most generally don't need to be tazered:)...but from my understanding, and I could be wrong, it was a pretty young kid that he tazered.

But he still broke the laws that he is suppose to uphold by hunting out of season and drinking on the job. Isn't that enough to be let go over?

[WashingtonBay]

You lost me there.....what does a cop tazering someone have to do with Palin????

It has everything to do with the case.

This whole story stems from a trooper Wooten who was married to Palin's sister. The trooper is a real jerk, just about everyone agrees on that. He is said to have tasered his own 10 year old kid, he hunted out of season, drank while on duty, made threats to family members, among other things.

When Wooten and Palin's sister were splitting up, Palin started pressuring the chief, Monegan, who does report to Palin, to fire Wooten, and Monegan and Palin got in a power struggle over it that Monegan inevitably lost. She had every right to fire him. And she says, this was only one of a list of reasons he was fired. There were other disagreements.

It's a complex set of relationships... lots of ins and outs and grey areas in what a sister should do, or a governor should do.

[Remali]

Well, obviously it's not OK to tazer anyone like that. But I wasn't discussing that...... I was discussing the findings about Palin, and the way she and her husband went about it.

So I guess you are saying two wrongs make it right then...... LOL.

[Horserider]

Ok I've been fuming about this for a few days now. First of all HOW many politicians do you think abuse their power? A LOT most likely.

You know what they DON'T say in this article? WHY he got fired. From what I've heard he's a jerk and deserved to be fired. So what if he was her brother-in-law? If he wasn't doing his job right than he deserved to be fired regardless of who he is.

[Harleys Owner]

Well, obviously it's not OK to tazer anyone like that. But I wasn't discussing that...... I was discussing the findings about Palin, and the way she and her husband went about it.

So I guess you are saying two wrongs make it right then...... LOL.

So because it was her husband who exercised his rights to go to the authorities about the misbehavior of a cop, makes it wrong?

[WashingtonBay]

Well, Horserider, that's not exactly what happened, she didn't fire Wooten, she fired the Chief who was refusing to fire him. If anything, it appears she was trying to use the chain of command and the chief was not cooperative.

[Remali]

"[Palin] knowingly ... permitted [husband] Todd Palin to use the governor's office and the resources of the governor's office ... in an effort to find some way to get Trooper Wooten fired."

So I guess it's OK to just let the family walk into the governor's office and do whatever......

[Harleys Owner]

"[Palin] knowingly ... permitted [husband] Todd Palin to use the governor's office and the resources of the governor's office ... in an effort to find some way to get Trooper Wooten fired."

So I guess it's OK to just let the family walk into the governor's office and do whatever......

If a legitimate crime has been committed, yes it is OK.

[Harleys Owner]

Well, Horserider, that's not exactly what happened, she didn't fire Wooten, she fired the Chief who was refusing to fire him. If anything, it appears she was trying to use the chain of command and the chief was not cooperative.

And the Chief had other issues going on also, that were against policy. She was within her rights in all of it, no matter who was with her, family or not.

[WashingtonBay]

"[Palin] knowingly ... permitted [husband] Todd Palin to use the governor's office and the resources of the governor's office ... in an effort to find some way to get Trooper Wooten fired."

So I guess it's OK to just let the family walk into the governor's office and do whatever......

And that's where there can be a lot of room for difference of opinion on how right or wrong that was. She has the right to let him, but should she have let him? Depends on what side you're on.

[Harleys Owner]

And that's where there can be a lot of room for difference of opinion on how right or wrong that was. She has the right to let him, but should she have let him? Depends on what side you're on.

I'd hate to live in a place where just because I had family in charge of running that place I couldn't voice an opinion.

[Remali]

Well, like I had read somewhere, there were more appropriate channels that Palin should have legally and ethically pursued..... She was just out to settle a score, and letting her husband in the office like that, and then there was the fiasco about the emails.... She should have taken a higher road.

[Harleys Owner]

..... She was just out to settle a score, .

And you know this how??? You don't think it had anything to do with a crime being commited? It was "just" to settle a score....

[Horserider]

Well, Horserider, that's not exactly what happened, she didn't fire Wooten, she fired the Chief who was refusing to fire him. If anything, it appears she was trying to use the chain of command and the chief was not cooperative.

Ok I guess I misunderstood. But still obviously the guy should've been fired if he was that bad. But you'll never hear the media saying that. They want to make it out like the guy didn't do anything wrong and Palin's abusing her power.

[Remali]

The guy should have been fired of course, and Palin should have gone about it legally and ethically. And why does she use her personal email for governement business..... Anyway, if that is your kind of leader, by all means vote for her then.

[WashingtonBay]

The guy should have been fired of course, and Palin should have gone about it legally and ethically.

She did act legally, and many think she acted ethically. This panel is as political as it's findings, and even they found no actionable wrongdoing, only a matter of opinion on 'should haves' Doesn't carry a lot of weight with me.

And why does she use her personal email for governement business

What's you're proof of that? The yahoo account that got hacked? I don't think they found anything in there but chit chat and family photos.

[Harleys Owner]

What's you're proof of that? The yahoo account that got hacked? I don't think they found anything in there but chit chat and family photos.

That's what I thought too...but wasn't sure because I hadn't heard anything further about them, other then the kid that did it has been to court.

[Arrow]

Trooper Wooten has never been fired, I think. The abuse of power was pressuring Monegan to fire Wooten. Firing Monegan was not the abuse of power--that was legal. It doesn't matter if Wooten was ever fired--the fact that Palin put pressure on her subordinates because of a personal family dispute is what makes her a lawbreaker as governor.

The finding says that Sarah Palin broke the law. But just because they found that she broke the law doesn't mean that anyone has to prosecute her for it--they can decide not prosecute her, that's my understanding.

The panel or whatever was majority Republican--and they voted 12-0 to release the complete text of the report. Also--Palin volunteered to be investigated back in the summer.

This is from page 8 of the report:
"Finding Number One

For the reasons explained in section IV of this report, I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides

The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust.

Finding Number Two

I find that, although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads."

Here's the part of the report that talks about how Palin failed to act, and the belief of the investigator that she wasn't really afraid of Wooten, it was just a family dispute, pasted from http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/10/politics/main4514596.shtml.

The report criticized Palin, saying in her role as Governor …
"[she] knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda, to wit: to get Trooper Michael Wooten fired. She had the authority and power to require Mr. Palin to cease contacting subordinates, but she failed to act.

"Such impermissible and repeated contacts create conflicts of interest for subordinate employees who must choose to either please a superior or run the risk of facing that superior's displeasure and the possible consequences of such displeasure. This was one of the very reasons the Ethics Act was promulgated by the Legislature."
As the report underscores, "Compliance with the code of ethics is not optional."

Among the reasons Palin has stated why she sought the termination of Wooten was because of alleged threats made to her extended family. However, the report questions the validity of that excuse, for several reasons:
"Governor Palin has stated publicly that she and her family feared Trooper Wooten. Yet the evidence presented has been inconsistent with such claims of fear. The testimony from Trooper Wheeler, who was part of her security detail from the start, was that shortly after [being] elected to office, she ordered a substantial reduction in manpower to her personal protection detail in both Anchorage and Juneau, an act that is inconsistent with a desire to avoid harm from Trooper Wooten or others. Moreover, assuming that Trooper Wooten was ever inclined to attack Governor Palin or a family member, logic dictates that getting him fired would accomplish nothing to eliminate the potential harm to her or her family. On the contrary, it might just precipitate some retaliatory conduct on his part. Causing Wooten to [lose] his job would not have de-escalated the situation, or provided her or her family with greater security. …

"I conclude that such claims of fear were not bona fide and were offered to provide cover for the Palins' real motivation: to get Trooper Wooten fired for personal family related reasons."

[grandmadeb]

Loose cannon, poor judgement, not Ms. Squeaky Clean. Golly gee guys and gals wink, wink

[WashingtonBoy]

First of all, Monegan wasn't even fired, he was given a reassignment that he resigned rather than accept.

Second, Monegan himself said "For the record, no one ever said fire Wooten. Not the governor. Not Todd. Not any of the other staff." (http://www.adn.com/news/politics/story/510080.html)

So where's all the evidence of this 'pressure'?

[WashingtonBay]

I don't follow his conclusions of logic at all!

So if she were really afraid of him she wouldn't have fought him?

What about facing your fears and doing what you think is right? I'm sure she took whatever precautions she thought she needed to take, personally, and as governor, for her safety. But to say it's not reasonable to conclude she was afraid because she wasn't cowering in a corner does not compute. She can take threats seriously and still face them down. It's called being brave.

The conclusions are opinion, I think given the conduct I've heard about from Wooten, I'm fairly comfortable being on her side rather than his.

It's a tempest in a teapot really. A local issue that only gets blurry when it's blown up too big.

[Arrow]

The tasering incident wasn't about a drunk punishing a kid or something--google and read about that from other places. I'm quite sure that if the man had been guilty of child abuse, he'd have been arrested for that. The fact that Wooten still has his job says a lot--it says to me that in fact there isn't any real good cause to fire the guy. The Palins are spinning all this stuff about the guy--they're using their position to sell their side of the story.

Someone who has abused her power like this--using her office to go after a personal enemy--isn't someone who should be VP of the United States. She's unfit to hold that office. I'm thinking she'll be a one-term govenor, but of course, we'll have to wait and see.

People yelling "kill him" at an Obama rally is "silly," this is a "tempest in a teapot." Is there anything that rises to the level of important in this election, WB? Only things about Obama and Biden? Or is all the criticism of them silly, too? What's silly and what's not, and who decides? Voters decide, I guess, and we'll see on November 4. I know you think this stuff is silly, but plenty of people don't and not all of them are liberals or democrats.

[WashingtonBoy]

The fact that Wooten still has his job says a lot--it says to me that in fact there isn't any real good cause to fire the guy. The Palins are spinning all this stuff about the guy--they're using their position to sell their side of the story.

This isn't just spin and allegation. The findings of the internal investigation of Wooten:


Wooten violated internal policy, but not the law, in making a death threat against Heath. Wooten denied having made the threat, but the investigation decided that he had in fact done so. The investigation concluded that the death threat was not a crime because Wooten did not threaten the father directly; therefore, the investigator deemed the threat to be a violation of trooper policy rather than a violation of criminal law.
The investigation found that Wooten had committed a hunting violation in shooting a moose without a permit: he had been out hunting with McCann in September 2003 and had shot the animal himself even though their permit was in McCann's name only.
Wooten was also found to have violated department policy in using a Taser on his then 11-year old stepson in 2003. (Although the Taser incident happened in 2003, it was not reported to police until the divorce proceedings.)
The investigation initially cleared Wooten on all of the alcohol-related charges, but Grimes overturned that result and found that Wooten did "take [an] open beer with him when he drove away in his trooper vehicle" on one occasion in the summer of 2004, violating both the law and internal trooper policy.

"Based on the internal investigation findings, Grimes announced on March 1, 2006 that she would suspend Wooten for ten days. In announcing the suspension, Grimes referred to the Taser, moose and beer incidents, and also to seven other negative actions in Wooten's personnel file, such as failing to use turn signals. She concluded that "[t]he record clearly indicates a serious and concentrated pattern of unacceptable and at times, illegal activity occurring over a lengthy period, which establishes a course of conduct totally at odds with the ethics of our profession". After a union protest, the suspension was reduced to five days, and Wooten was warned by Grimes that he would be fired if he committed any further misconduct."

The guy is not exactly a model trooper.

[Arrow]

Any more than Palin is a model governor.

[WashingtonBoy]

Any more than Palin is a model governor.I guess that's why her approval rating is still one of the highest in the country. About 65-70% last I checked.

[Arrow]

It's been going down, though--it started a lot higher.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, maybe the mud slinging is having an effect. It's having an effect on me. I don't think less of her, but I am starting to think less of this whole hobby of giving a rip about politics.

Just when I get interested in it again, because this terrific, interesting woman seems like a fun addition to the political scene, I'm fighting the same overblown conspiracy type fearmongering we used to have about Cheney and Bush about how this gal is 'scary' and abuses her power by wanting a guy who is a real jerk fired from state government... and then apparently, doesn't even get it.

I swear, people in this country can make anyone smell bad if they throw enough crap their way.

It at least smells up the room.

I like her. I don't care if she did 'intimidate' this guy. She's the governor. In state government, that gives her a lot of power, and not all uses of it are abuses.

[Arrow]

I truly know how you feel at work, WB. I come from a very large family of Republicans, Republicans every one. But hey, you've got a like-minded supportive husband and forum family, so I hope that you take comfort in that! No matter what, I'd still put you in the top tier of folks that I've met on the internet who I'd like to meet in real life to sit down for a few beers and a good long talk.:)

[JackieB]

...but I am starting to think less of this whole hobby of giving a rip about politics.


Somehow, I can't imagine you giving up on caring deeply about politics. Well, unless I just completely misunderstood you and underneath it all, you're really weak. :p:p:p:p

I don't think I can agree with you that the findings are politicially motivated, WB. The commission was bipartisan and the vote to release the findings was unanimous. It would certainly have been split along party lines if it was an election-year "gotcha".

But, I don't think that it will have an impact on the strength of the McCain/Palin ticket.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, thanks. :)

But can we talk about something else when we do? I'm tired of the trooper. ;)

[WashingtonBay]

Oh I guess that reply could go to either of you. :)

I like politics... when it's about fair taxation, our rights and responsibilities, what our policy should be about this or that. When it's about gossip and personal stuff that just really doesn't matter, it just makes me sour.

[Sundays Man]

I agree WB. This pres. race has worn me out just listening to the garbage being thrown around. In this case, the guy could have been a bug eating, child molesting, nose picking, mouth breathing mass muderer, and still some of the people that are so "afraid" of Palin would find a way to make her the villian here.