Western trained to Dressage

[elleng]

Well I had my first long session with Midas today and well we had our ups and downs. I would love to hear stories on folks who have taken Western trained horses and turned them into suitable dressage partners.

Thanks
Ellen

[ImaBronsonBear]

Never have done it, not sure i'd want to try, but i'm sure you can do it. It may be a lot of work and very frustrating in the beginning, but i'm sure that it'll all turn out well in the end.:)

[AUEquine]

I did it last year with a reining mare (14.2 foundation QH mare)... with her it was easy in the begining. She had a natrual collection with just a bump of the rein, and a gorgeous trot. The problem with her came on learning the canter transistion. She had not been finished as a reining horse, so she was a bit confused on that. It took like 2 straight weeks of working on it, and she finally caught on.

She always places, literaly she's never not placed at a show. And the only negative judges usually have on her is that she needs to lengthen her stride... she's a 14.2 QH... it don't get any longer than what it is!

[elleng]

I did it last year with a reining mare (14.2 foundation QH mare)... with her it was easy in the begining. She had a natrual collection with just a bump of the rein, and a gorgeous trot. The problem with her came on learning the canter transistion. She had not been finished as a reining horse, so she was a bit confused on that. It took like 2 straight weeks of working on it, and she finally caught on.

She always places, literaly she's never not placed at a show. And the only negative judges usually have on her is that she needs to lengthen her stride... she's a 14.2 QH... it don't get any longer than what it is!

Hi AU,
Well he is 16hh and has nice suspension/extension in his walk/trot. He doesn't do the quarter horse shuffle. The big issue now is this head tossing thing. I'm riding him in a loose ring french link snaffle and if I ride on ANY type of contact at all except a loose rein he throws that head like crazy. He did not do this head throwing thing when he had the western bit in his mouth.(when I tried him out) It seems that there is a bit of a routine. Ride on any type of light contact- throw head, walk backward, move him forward, slight contact, throw head, move backward, move him forward.. etc. When we were trotting consistently he didn't do this and just moved beautifully. It is when we broke gate and went back to a walk the head throwing started back in earnest.

I'm having a trainer ride him on Saturday morning and I'm also having the dentist out to check his mouth. I think it might be that this teeth need doing. He just had his feet done last night after being overdue unfortunately. So I'm praying that with a bit of TLC things will start to get a bit more towards normal.

[AUEquine]

Definatly check the teeth, no sense fighting a losing battle if that's the issue.

I had a bit of this problem with the mare I trained, if you got too much contact she'd basically be kissing her chest. And if you were stopped she wouldn't hold still if you had any contact on her mouth. This is really just something that came over time. I'd switch to some sort of happy mouth or egg butt bit, the absolute mildest you can. Double or single jointed is up to your horse and his preferences. Then I'd try lunging him in side reins. Not tight to hold his head in, just enough that it's going to apply pressure to the bit. Then put him in the round pen and work him from the ground. Just let him figure out that contact on the bit isn't a bad thing. And this way he's just fighting himself. Soon he'll realize that if he just chills out, lifes alot less work for him. But mostly it will just come in time.

[Miracle Whip]

I switched from Western to English. But my mare was never truely on a loose rein. She liked to have some contact.
I went from a Roller bit to a D ring snaffle. We had to tie her mouth shut with the nosepiece for a while, she has ALWAYS been a bit chomper. Half halts, and seat cues were easy as pie. She is more responsive with the English saddle I think. Most everything we taught her she picked up quickly.

I only do Entry level dressage though. I do compete in speed events now and then, still using the D ring snaffle - I just throw on my old Western saddle.

English is a better way of communicating with your horse if you ask me. Western is ok, but its not rocket science unless you are doing reining or something.

[sugarsgirl]

Well the first mare I ever leased was a western horse, and then I took dressage lessons on her and she was pretty decent in it. Although we didn't get to far into it, she was able to differenciate from the two easily.

[cowpuncher]

I do it regularly. It depends of course on what "western" discipline your horse is coming from. The old peanut roller WP horses are not gonna be as easy to re-train as others, but it is possible.

If you read the charter of the NRHA, reining horses are supposed to be dressage horses anyway. Today of course, they don't really look like it, but.....

I've taken ranch horses that I roped off one day, and shown them, successfully, in dressage that weekend. In point of fact, if you read the classical masters like Gueriniere, and Podjasky, et al, even Baucher and Fillis, the modern western performance horse, in reining, reined cowhorse, and working ranch horse, are a lot closer, development-wise, and movement-wise that most modern dressage horses, even on an elite level.

There is no reason that a relatively young western horse, even in the midst of a competitive career, can't be changed over to dressage.

ESPECIALLY, considering that dressage is JUST training. The tests at different levels are just designed to test the horses learning, they are not, or should not, be an end in themselves. People forget that.

[John Boy]

Dressage is all disaplines (this was drivin' into me head by my first trainer - who did everything at the professional level)

One thing I noticed is that in Dressage we want the horse to work off his rear legs more , and contact through to the bit. When riding english the first thing people do is start working from the bit to get the horses head to go on the vertical.
I know it's easyer said than done , but the rider needs to work the horse from the rear legs (seat) to the bit , and once the horse understands to take the bit , then the head carriage will come. Once the horse knows this there is a whole bunch of fun exercises to have the horse carry bit and head carriage while you have no contact (loose rein)
Head tossing no-no. If it becomes programmed - yikes. Glad to hear your having someone come out look at the bit as well as teeth.
(I rode a retired barrel horse and the back connection was just great - i'll never for get it)
best regards

[elleng]

Just to give everyone a quick update on where we are. Midas has had his teeth and feet done and I've put him in a slightly wider (width wise) bit. I am working on getting him to move off of my seat and legs more than my hands and of course this is quite challenging. He doesn't like any type of contact on his mouth right now so I'm trying to do as little as possible with my hands. So we have had our up and down challenges but I am going to perservere and keep moving forward.

[cowpuncher]

Dressage is all disaplines (this was drivin' into me head by my first trainer - who did everything at the professional level)

One thing I noticed is that in Dressage we want the horse to work off his rear legs more , and contact through to the bit. When riding english the first thing people do is start working from the bit to get the horses head to go on the vertical.
I know it's easyer said than done , but the rider needs to work the horse from the rear legs (seat) to the bit , and once the horse understands to take the bit , then the head carriage will come. Once the horse knows this there is a whole bunch of fun exercises to have the horse carry bit and head carriage while you have no contact (loose rein)
Head tossing no-no. If it becomes programmed - yikes. Glad to hear your having someone come out look at the bit as well as teeth.
(I rode a retired barrel horse and the back connection was just great - i'll never for get it)
best regards


This illustrates an interesting factoid about re-training spoiled western horses in order to more properly "dress," or train a horse. Because so many western horses are trained to work off a loose rein before they should probably, any decent western horse is gonna be easy to get working from the back to the front. As John pointed out, too many would-be English riders go the other direction, and start working on the other end first. It doesn't work so well. Too often, there is so much emphasis placed on getting the headset "right" that the horse ends up behind the bit. You end up forcing the horse back onto his forehand instead of shifting the weight back like we desire.

In point of fact, most of the good, classical type dressage trainers will tell you that, beyond getting the horse to respond to lateral flexion, you should stay out of his mouth as much as possible until he has learned to move well. The idea is that, when the horse reaches his head and neck forward and downward, he elevates the shoulder. This in turn, rounds the back, pulling the hip under.

[elleng]

Hi cowpuncher,
Yes I have a very good friend of mine who has been in horses for many many years and has competed on the international level make sure that I work from the hind end and not the mouth. So for the time being that is what I'm concentrating on.

[Jump The Moon]

I've never done western to english but I am currently starting out with the basics of western riding with my english allrounder, Billy. We normally do dressage and showjumping, but do a little eventing too. Billy's picking the western stuff up pretty quick, I'd love to hear how it is going the other way round :)