Curbs for showing..Horses over age 5

[JustDreamin]

Just wanted to know what you thought. Some people like me start their horses late..don't have a trailer and maybe go to 1-2 shows per year and only get to ride several times a week. I am seriously thinking about switching to english for showing but it would require a lot of work on my part equitation wise, all that posting and new tack. I like to ride western though and show western because english is something I can only see myself doing in the fat future. So my problem is that my horse would have to be shown in a curb. I consider it to be harsher for my horse because he needs a lot of correction(he's also mentally immature still) and two handed work. I wouldn't even use a curb on him for schooling. I could see myself trying a curb on him after he's had way more miles and shows but he's only been to 2 and ridden at 1. I've only ridden finished horses in curbs and I still use snaffles on them for most regular schooling. So what's your opinion? Do you think everyone should follow the rules for the show even if it's the horses second show and it's got to be in a curb?

[Palogal]

I don't get why they require curbs at a certain age for Western. Then again, I'm an English rider and we don't require curbs for anything although most will show dressage in a pelham at a certain point. The rules are the rules and if you choose to show in that arena you have to follow them.

[vicklynn]

Do you think everyone should follow the rules for the show even if it's the horses second show and it's got to be in a curb?

IF I were to show, Id follow the rules no matter what show I was showing, my first, 2nd, ect. Thats why there are rules.
Ive shown once, placed, and I followed the rules. You can place in any show, at any time, why not follow the rules, you may just walk away with a memory your first time out.

[Palogal]

I think it's kind of silly to require a certain type of bit, but if that's the rule, that's the rule.

[WashingtonBay]

I'm sure it depends a lot on what shows you're talking about. Breed and rated shows are going to be considerably less flexible than schooling and open shows.

If there is a stated age limit or consideration for the class, you don't have a lot of choice.

However most schooling shows I used to go to we used to be able to just 'audit' the class and go through all the motions and get the horse the exposure without actually being judged too. People do this for horses who aren't really "show ready' who are likely to need some correction in the class or who still need some kind of training device still like a snaffle or a martingale.

[Palogal]

That's true. Schooling shows are usually "whatever" about bits and equipment. The ones around here say "all aides are allowed and will be judged accordingly" so if you horse is not ready for a curb, stick to the small shows until he is.

[JustDreamin]

Sorry I was just wondering about schooling shows. Most of them follow the rules for upper western showing. And yes if I went to a state show or a show higher than schooling I would use a curb but I would also probably attend 10 schooling shows or more to get ready. Next time I show I will probably just stick to the green horse classes because they allow snaffles(I think..i'll check).

[Cat]

The reason certain shows require a certain bit is because the ones showing at that level should be somewhat "finished". The traditional finished bridle horse is one that rides in a curb - even with dressage the upper levels use a double bridle with a curb. The horse should be able to ride off a loose rein and should respond to almost invisible-like ques from the rider. This was very important with western horses when the cowboys were working cattle. Could you imagine trying to rope a cow while at the same time trying to steer your horse with 2 hands? Just wouldn't work. And today's shows are a reflection of the old days - which is why its called "western" riding.

If your horse is not ready for the curb yet, then keep him in either green horse classes that allow snaffles or do as WB said and see if their is an option for auditing. I don't think I would ever enter a show knowingly using a bit that is not allowed.

[Dixie]

Most shows with rules like that enforce them too and often have a ring steward that does bit checks before entering the ring.

Not using what is required could very well be considered cheating by some judges even if thats not what is going on. Not something you want to get tossed around if you plan to attend more then one show in the same area.

[alittleoffkey]

I don't understand why they require curbs at a certain age either - it wouldn't bother me if it was at a certain level but this five-year-old nonsense is a bit obnoxious.

I don't show, but I've ridden in curbs. Western Curb bits are not meant to be ridden two-handed. If you can't control your horse in a snaffle, don't move him up to the curb. He's just not ready. The green horse classes should let you ride in a snaffle, regardless of his age.

Good luck! Maybe next year you'll be able to ride in the 'normal' classes. :) It doesn't really matter, as long as you're moving forward at his pace and keeping it fun for him. :cowboy:

[Miracle Whip]

I was at a show last weekend at the Iowa Equestrian center at the community college. This was a non breed specific show. I saw lots of different bits in the WP classes, and believe me they were NOT true curbs. The shanks were not fixed, so in my mind the shanks are kind of just there for looks in a lot of cases.

I have also seen snaffle bits used. I would rather watch a well trained horse with a decent headset using a snaffle bit then one with a huge curb.

Since you are just schooling yet, use the snaffle. The horse will be better off in the long run AND have a better attitude about showing than if you forced him into a curb. I can't use a curb on my mare... so I just use the snaffle or a roller bit. We ride Western Pleasure and English and I use the same English bridle most of the time, since the other horse has the western bridle.

[natisha]

Most open shows will let you do practice rides in whatever you want as long as you pay the entry fee & turn your number over so you are not judged. A friend did this with a newly purchased horse before she let her daughter show it. The judge told her she would have gotten second.

If this is just for exposure see if they will allow you to ride in the class. Never hurts to ask.

[natisha]

I was at a show last weekend at the Iowa Equestrian center at the community college. This was a non breed specific show. I saw lots of different bits in the WP classes, and believe me they were NOT true curbs. The shanks were not fixed, so in my mind the shanks are kind of just there for looks in a lot of cases.

I have also seen snaffle bits used. I would rather watch a well trained horse with a decent headset using a snaffle bit then one with a huge curb.

Since you are just schooling yet, use the snaffle. The horse will be better off in the long run AND have a better attitude about showing than if you forced him into a curb. I can't use a curb on my mare... so I just use the snaffle or a roller bit. We ride Western Pleasure and English and I use the same English bridle most of the time, since the other horse has the western bridle. A curb does not have to have fixed shanks to be a curb. Any bit with leverage is a curb regardless of the shank or mouthpiece. A snaffle has a direct line from the rider's hands to bit, no leverage.

[ownedby7horses]

When I was showing, my horse wore a long shank snaffle. It was a legal bit (atleast here it is). I would just do some asking around. I don't care for curb bits and Rodeo really hates them. I would find out if your horse would be allowed to show (and be judged) in something like a short shank snaffle bit or something along those lines. Another friend of mine used to show western pleasure and her horse always went in a short shank snaffle and she always placed in the top 3 (usually 1st).
Good luck and happy showing

[Cat]

When I was showing, my horse wore a long shank snaffle. It was a legal bit (atleast here it is). I would just do some asking around. I don't care for curb bits and Rodeo really hates them. I would find out if your horse would be allowed to show (and be judged) in something like a short shank snaffle bit or something along those lines. Another friend of mine used to show western pleasure and her horse always went in a short shank snaffle and she always placed in the top 3 (usually 1st).
Good luck and happy showing

If it has shanks its NOT a snaffle - its a curb. It does NOT matter what the mouthpiece is - what matters is if there is leverage or not. Shanks = leverage = curb.

The mouth piece can be solid or broken for both curbs or snaffles. You can have solid mouth piece snaffle and broken mouth piece curbs.

[Miracle Whip]

If the shanks are not fused to the bit itself than its not a true curb bit. Its a show bit. I know it can't be a snaffle if it has shanks...

Washington Bay's explanation might help. I am attaching what I think is a curb and something else that has shanks but is a broken bit. Looks like the curb is going to be the 2nd pictures if I can get it to load. And I couldn't find pictures of shanks that are not fused.. the best example I could come up with is the Tennessee Walker bit

[WashingtonBay]

The definition, for purposes of show, is that it has to have shanks and a curb strap. It can have whatever mouthpiece you want inside, as far as I know. :)

[natisha]

If the shanks are not fused to the bit itself than its not a true curb bit. Its a show bit. I know it can't be a snaffle if it has shanks...

Washington Bay's explanation might help. I am attaching what I think is a curb and something else that has shanks but is a broken bit. Looks like the curb is going to be the 2nd pictures if I can get it to load. And I couldn't find pictures of shanks that are not fused.. the best example I could come up with is the Tennessee Walker bit These are both curb bits. Yes , curb bits are used with a curb/chin strap or chain. Whether showing or not the definition stays the same, leverage vs non-leverage.

[Cat]

Both of those are curbs in my opinion as well. The 2nd one I've often times heard called a grazing curb.

[Miracle Whip]

IMHO I thought the non-fused shanks were something created for showing. ie, the fused shanks are the ideal and the non fused shanks are just ways to get around the rules.

There are so many many bits I cannot possibly understand them all. A spade bit, which is the California ideal, has a solid shank that is fused to the mouthpiece doesn't it? Do reiners etc use a bit with non-fused shanks? I have only seen bits of this type in Western Pleasure classes.

By your definition I should be able to use both my roller bit and my Tennessee Walking bit in WP classes... is this true?

I also might be getting the term "curb" and "port" confused, as I thought a port was a requirement for it to be a curb.

[WashingtonBay]

"curb" refers to the curb chain and shanks. "Port" is how tall the center of a solid mouthpiece is. Maybe you are just confused. The type of mouthpiece is a preference, not some way to cheat the rules.

[Cat]

WB explained it well. Curb references the chain or strap that goes under the chin that works with the shank. Curb bits can have ports - low, medium, or high, rollers, broken/joined mouth (I'm not a fan of these with shanks), arched mullen mouth, or sweetwater curve.

Now spade bits - those are a whole other ball game even though they look like a curb. My understanding is while your standard curb works off of leverage, the main purpose of the spade bit is to work off of the very light communication of the spade movement inside the mouth. It should be almost a whisper of movement and if you used a spade bit like you do a leverage bit - then it does become a harsh bit because its being used improperly. You shouldn't even neck-rein with it so I have been told. Its more of a whisper of communication.

[HeartofSteel]

I showed my 9yr old Mare in a snaffle when I showed western in schooling shows. The judge did ask how old she was and I told her that she was 9. She hated curbs, I tried it once but she wasn't happy. I mostly rode english and just rode western for high-point. Most judges that I have asked will judge the class normally and then if your placed in the top she will give the 1st to the person with the curb even though you may have the same scores.

[Miracle Whip]

So I don't have to have a port bit at all in WP. Interesting.

[Equine_Woman]

IMHO I thought the non-fused shanks were something created for showing. ie, the fused shanks are the ideal and the non fused shanks are just ways to get around the rules.

There are so many many bits I cannot possibly understand them all. A spade bit, which is the California ideal, has a solid shank that is fused to the mouthpiece doesn't it? Do reiners etc use a bit with non-fused shanks? I have only seen bits of this type in Western Pleasure classes.

By your definition I should be able to use both my roller bit and my Tennessee Walking bit in WP classes... is this true?

I also might be getting the term "curb" and "port" confused, as I thought a port was a requirement for it to be a curb.

Even if the mouth is broken, those bits still use curb pressure, therefore they are a curbs. They aren't just a 'show' bit. As for what bits you can use each organization has different rules. . like no copper, etc. . .

And I agree with the posters above who said that by the time you are showing in some shows you should be into a curb bit and out of a snaffle, regardless of the age of the horse.

You can always ride exhibition which I believe is cheaper. But I wouldn't break the rules in a judged class. They are rules for a reason, even if you are just starting.

[Miracle Whip]

Not to be a total sticker here but my riding instructor - who works with both Western and English type horses has all of her horses and students using snaffle bits. From the tone of the above post, it is implying a well broke horse HAS to be in a curb bit...? That isn't right. I don't think they pay any attention to "rules" in open shows, at least not here. The breed specific and point shows yes. The shows I go to are open to all breeds because I don't have registered horses.

I have never heard of exhibition either. There are novice classes at some shows...otherwise the beginners are out there with the professionals - quite a hodge podge of riding skills at open shows. They are all judged though.

[WashingtonBay]

A finished Western horse is traditionally ridden one handed in a curb bit. That's the reason for the standard at most shows for "western pleasure". Showing is, in large part, about maintaining and showing traditions, including traditional tack.

[Miracle Whip]

And I wouldn't take any of those WP horses out to herd cows WBay. What a joke. I understand what you are saying though. I think they should allow hackamores also, but they don't. Dad chased many a cow and his horse was Western trained, but she was in a hackamore.

No one answered my question either about what types of bit a REINING horse uses, because that is the TRUE western horse, not the WP classes.

[WashingtonBay]

They'd use some kind of curb, most of them. It depends.

[JustDreamin]

Incase anyone is wondering. If I went to a breed show or a high rated show I would expect my horse to have been to enough schooling shows to do well at a bigger show. And that's not my point. I only want to show schooling level for fun. And since he was only ridden at one show I do not think this makes him experienced enough to be in a curb for the next show or the one after that. Reason I asked is because my horse going to be over the age bracket next year.

[Miracle Whip]

I am sorry that we got on a tangent JustDreamin. For open shows you can do anything, I do and so do many other riders in my area. Its only when you are competing for points in a breed specific organization that it even matters. In those cases I imagine there are higher entry fees also, so it makes sense to follow their rules if possible.

Open shows are just that, open. Go have fun.

[natisha]

Not to be a total sticker here but my riding instructor - who works with both Western and English type horses has all of her horses and students using snaffle bits. From the tone of the above post, it is implying a well broke horse HAS to be in a curb bit...? That isn't right. I don't think they pay any attention to "rules" in open shows, at least not here. The breed specific and point shows yes. The shows I go to are open to all breeds because I don't have registered horses.

I have never heard of exhibition either. There are novice classes at some shows...otherwise the beginners are out there with the professionals - quite a hodge podge of riding skills at open shows. They are all judged though. I teach too & would never start a beginner in ANY bit, they start with a leather halter with reins attached.
Futurity or snaffle classes can use a snaffle or bosal. After a certain age western horses are expected to have progressed in their training to go in a curb bit on a loose rein. What someone uses at home is their own preference and not an indication of how well trained their horse is. I don't think anybody implied a western horse not in a curb was not well trained.

[Miracle Whip]

Opne shows are there for all of us. Go have fun. Ride him in a hackamore if you want, you can even ride bareback...

[WashingtonBay]

MW open show rules vary quite a bit depending on who is sponsoring the show. People should check with each local show if they are unsure about rule issues.

[ownedby7horses]

If it has shanks its NOT a snaffle - its a curb. It does NOT matter what the mouthpiece is - what matters is if there is leverage or not. Shanks = leverage = curb.

The mouth piece can be solid or broken for both curbs or snaffles. You can have solid mouth piece snaffle and broken mouth piece curbs.

OK, pardon me, it was a short shank broken mouth peice curb bit.

[Miracle Whip]

I am just getting tired of people saying your horse should do this etc etc. I stated that we are pretty flexible in my area. I jguess the BEST answer to the poster would be to ask around, I belong to a horse club and I betcha the members could tell me which judges are more lenient than others and they can definitely tell me what their rules are towards bits. My particular club has nothing in the rules about what type of bit to use in WP, I have heard of the curb rule after 5...and like I said, while watching a local show I saw many types of bits. This was a different club by the way, not the one I belong to.

I always watch local shows - that way I learn what the trends are, which judges are good or bad, how tough the competition is...things like that. Since Kirkwood is an indoor facility I can watch and learn in the cold winter months.