Video of Dallas being an A**

[Country Girl 43]

Ok, some people wanted to see how he acts when I take Missy away. This video he is actually a bit calmer than the first video. This was taken about the 3rd time I took Missy around the arena.

There is NO way I could even get a saddle on this horse tied to a trailer at an event, because he does the same thing. Besides the pawing, rearing and pulling back, notice how he also pushes his body into the fence to try and knock it down.

So now what do you think???? Remember...this is AFTER he had calmed down a bit.

YouTube - buddysourDallas2

[PatriotsDreamer]

id leave him tied there EVERY time you ride missy. ride back and forth in front of him and farther away each time. pay zero attention to him. dont respond, look at notice, yell, praise NOTHING to him. This is definately his own insecurities getting the best of him. Part of it is probably from being young and green. tie him there and take her away EVERY DAY. You may also consider hobble training him. NOT FOR PUNISHMENT PURPOSES. its just a good thing for him to know. you will then also be able to control his pawing.

[Annie&Dixie]

Wow. He is NOT a happy camper. I don't know what to tell you as I've never really had a big problem with this but I hope you work it out, I would hate to be on him when he's like that.

He does have an incredibly cute neigh though ;)

[jeezitsjacki]

I dont really have any good ideas... but are they stalled and turned out together? maybe you could start turning them out at different times or stalling them away from each other.. not sure if this is possible

[Country Girl 43]

jeez...they each have their own turnout, but they are next to each other.

[PatriotsDreamer]

id leave him tied there EVERY time you ride missy. ride back and forth in front of him and farther away each time. pay zero attention to him. dont respond, look at notice, yell, praise NOTHING to him. This is definately his own insecurities getting the best of him. Part of it is probably from being young and green. tie him there and take her away EVERY DAY. You may also consider hobble training him. NOT FOR PUNISHMENT PURPOSES. its just a good thing for him to know. you will then also be able to control his pawing.
i should have added i learned this from my boyfriends parents. they break trail horses. i also forgot to mention after you do this with dallas, do this with missy. switch the shoes to make until dallas is 110% confident. it wont happen overnight it will take time.

the hobbles are good for him to know for if he gets hung up in a fence or wire out on the trail, to teach him to remain calm and wait for someone to come and help him rather than thrashing and hurting himself more. i think it would also benefit this problem too though teaching him to hobble.

[JackieB]

That's about as bad as I've seen it. I think he'd go right over the top of his corral if he wasn't tied. I really feel for you. I don't have suggestions, but I'd probably try what Patriots suggested if he was my horse.

[Country Girl 43]

Yeah JackieB and that was AFTER he had settled down! :eek: That's why I say, he has gotten dangerous.

Patriots...Missy is fine with Dallas leaving her. She doesn't get too excited. And Dallas is fine about LEAVING Missy. I can saddle him up and hop right on and ride away from the property. This melt down always happens when I take Missy out. And you can see, I dont take her very far!

[AUEquine]

i should have added i learned this from my boyfriends parents. they break trail horses. i also forgot to mention after you do this with dallas, do this with missy. switch the shoes to make until dallas is 110% confident. it wont happen overnight it will take time.

the hobbles are good for him to know for if he gets hung up in a fence or wire out on the trail, to teach him to remain calm and wait for someone to come and help him rather than thrashing and hurting himself more. i think it would also benefit this problem too though teaching him to hobble.

I agree with PatriotsDreamer!
On the buddy sour training... it's really a cold turkey type thing. The mare I used to have, Parsnips, was queen of buddy sour. Until one day the two other horses at the barn got moved (no notice, owners showed up and left a note saying the took the horses). Parsnips screamed and ran the fence for 2 days, and after that... no more buddy sour issues (unfortuantly all her other issues were still there). But I realize very few people have the ability to cold turkey their horses away from all others (mine was just a fluke). So the tieing him up, and riding away on Misty is a great idea. And don't just do it for a minute... ride away for 20 minutes at first, and then work up to like an hour.
Only you know Dallas, do you think he'll hurt himself or the property? Does he respect being tied, or will he pull back and break something. If he's going to break something, can you stall him? You don't need to baby him, but do make sure he'll be safe! Would he be distracted by hay? Can you tie a hay bag in front of him. That way he'll associate her leaving with a good thing... food! Then just put less and less hay in there, and ride longer than it takes him to eat it. Hopefully the hay will have gotten him through the worst part of his withdrawl.

My views on the hobbling... I love them! I taught Fiddler to tie with hobbles, and it has proved valuable many times. In our competative trail work, it really helps him accept stepping in tires. Or more so when he steps out and it pulls on his foot. Also just last week on the trail he stepped in a mess of vines wrapped around a fallen branch. It got wrapped around his foot, and he just calmly walked on dragging it behind until his foot came loose. I was so proud!!!

And if it makes you feel a little better I've definalty seen worse! I know you say this was not his worst, but I've seen horses 1000's times worse than this. So I don't believe his hump will be too terribly hard to overcome. It won't be easy or quick, but I'm sure he'll get there.

[mare]

Your horses are pretty. Beyond that I agree with what the others have suggested. Just making sure he's in a safe spot and do it alot. I feel sorry for horses that are that anxious... and their owner's.

[vicklynn]

Yup, Id tie him girl. Not as a punishment, but he needs to learn to stand tied. Also, if I were next to him and you rode off, him and me would have a work out, his ribs would be sore from running into me. I dont play that. Tie him, your not hurting him by doing it.

City and Myst are side by side, and this yr, I will be tieing City. He is not as bad as Dallas, but still misses his girl.

[HeartofSteel]

I see more of a seperation anxiety in his expression. I would suggest putting some type of splint or sport boots on him before you take Missy away though because his aggressive pawing and hitting is going to pop a splint or two on his legs. Now, my opinion :) When you take Missy out I would tie him like you have him but when you ride Missy, start walking her away and then walk back in front of him. Keep doing this until he knows that she is coming back and theres no need to freak. Yes it might only be a few feet at first until you have to walk back in front of him and its going to be a long process but I think it's worth it. So walk a few feet, come back, walk a few more feet, come back...

[Country Girl 43]

Well, I guess I will continue tying him then. But I need to put wraps or sport boots on him, as he did hurt himself yesterday. Not bad, just a scrap. I rinsed it and put meds on it and put him away.

Oh...and he is not food motivated. He could care less if there is a full bail of hay in front of him if Missy leaves.

He usually stands tied real well. Has never pulled back or anything stupid like in the video. He only does this crap when it involves Missy leaving. :mad:


LOL..halfpassing...we posted at the same time about the sport boots.....:)

[Vacker Hast]

Kristy,

Is Dallas too dangerous for any person around there that could help you. I saw it was suggested to ground work Dallas when Missy leaves the area and this is a great suggestion but he would need a very experienced handler to make him work hard enough to keep his mind on the handler and not Missy. Does he know how to lunge? This could help keep his anxiety burning while paying attention to the handler.

The other suggestions are all good too. I wish you good luck with this and ALWAYS stay safe.

Stacy

[vicklynn]

I like that idea too Vacker Hast!! Keep him thinking about something else.
My wondering thought on that is, when she dosnt have someone to do that one day, will he revert to his antics?
Hmmmm.

[Country Girl 43]

Vackerhast....when he acted up when Ladybird was here I could just let the kids ride LAdybird and I would work with Dallas. But he wasn't as bad as he is now. Plus, I can't leave the kids by themselves with Missy yet. I have to be able to watch them and help them out if she gives them any grief. I never had to worry about Ladybird.

So....no...I really don't have any help out there on a daily basis.

He needs to get over this so I can take him to the events at some point. But I can't take him AND take care of the kids on Missy at the events. So for now, Dallas stays home.

[Vacker Hast]

Vick,

I agree with you and he would go back to his antics while tied. I would try to do both, ground work him and tie him as other people have suggested. When he is tied his mind is all about Missy so I believe it's a good idea to continue with his tying as long as he doesn't hurt himself. A little bit of tying at a time would be best in his situation because he is trying to get over or through the fencing and he could really hurt himself.

It's going to take some time to get this behavior fixed and probably more than one remedy.

[IrisGreen]

I like the ideas of cold turkey and if needed someone working with him during the separation.

The idea that Half passing states about walking away then coming back works really well for other situations like building confidence with spooky objects or catching a horse. But I don't think it would work well in this situation or help matters. It will only teach him that when he throws a fit you bring Missy back to make him stop his fit. That's not what you want to teach him.

I would go cold Turkey and not come back until his has worn himself out and stopped calling out. maybe rider her around the barn and put her in a stall that he can't see and leave her there so you can peek on him and make sure he isn't hurting himself and wait for him to calm down or settle down. Then bring her back.

Or, stall her on the other side of the barn and work him in his pasture while she is gone if he acts up. Teach him if he wants to act up like that then you will put his energy to good use and make him work. He might get the idea real fast to just stand there or you will come back WITH OUT Missy and work that nervous energy right out of him.

The point is that Missy only comes back when he is calm and not freaking out over her being gone. That's his reward and that will teach him she will come back if he just stands there long enough. But if he freaks out YOU will come back and work his butt off and wont bring her back tell he is calm.

He does have a cute whinny and that lip is adorable, but the behavior and nervousness is something that he is going to have to learn to control on his own (with your help of course). He will get the point that calm is good and Missy will come back, Freaking out is bad and only gets you worked hard. Usually horses chose the easy way when they learn there's only two options.

[gaited07]

Is there a SOLID tie bar or pole out away from everyone? Since he is use to hobbles already, hobble his happy a$$ and leave him there. Of course have someone close enough but not in his view to watch over him in case you need to cut him loose, but I don't think you will have to. (just to be safe)

What I see is a classic seperation behavior stunt and yes, you need to correct it now before it gets worse. (you already know that)

I'm not too comfortable about tying him to that rail. Too many rails to get his leg caught up in or ??? rip the fence down.

Have to run, have a ride scheduled today and it's 70* so off I run.

Good luck!

[Vacker Hast]

IG,

That's very good information but since Kristy is the only experienced handler working with two horses it's hard. If Missy can be stalled or even put in the trailer and out of Dallas' sight then Kristy could go work Dallas until he is tired then tie him and he should be calm at that point (not a guarantee but worth a try) and have him tied until he is standing quietly for awhile before bringing Missy back. I agree this would be the best but it's not always easy when you are by yourself and it takes alot of time.

It's a great suggestion if it can be done. I sure hope things work out one way or another.

[Country Girl 43]

I know...I hate that fence. There is place where we saddle the horses. It's hitching post. I have pics posted in my thread of "She's Trying".

The only place I can tie him is to straight pole, but I am afriad the rope might slip down and then that would be a disaster.

[pandorasmom]

I don't have any suggestions, but wanted to say I hope you can get it worked out, as I'm sure you will. And that I also think he has a really cute neigh. :D

[BeachRiding]

Just to add, I would think about putting a big wooden tying post in the middle of the pen, tying to the metal round-pen does not seem like the safest thing with his behavior.

ETA- read your worried about the rope sliding down, drill in one of those round metal things and tie with that *and* the post. That way it can't slip.

[Country Girl 43]

Beachriding...I can't alter anything....I board my horses.

Oh..and he is not tied to a round pen. That is the fencing on his turn out. That is all contreted in the ground.

[42many]

CG - it looks in the video like maybe you have a regular snap lead rope attached to a rope halter? I can't tell for sure. The rope halter is great, but I highly recommend you do a direct tie of the lead rope to the halter - those silly snaps break like crazy even without a horse getting so wound up!

Any trees around you could tie him to? The rail fence probably isn't THAT bad if it's all you have - at least it is concreted (although I agree the rails and pawing are a bit scary). Maybe the owner would be willing to let you sink a large post deep in concrete somewhere on the property?

I'm raising my hand with the group that says just keep tying his little tush up! Also, I agree that you need to only bring her back when he is somewhat relaxed (or at least standing still!) - reward the good :). Go away longer and longer periods and if he gets rowdy while you are near, I'd go away again...

Also, it might be worth considering seeing if you can move Missy to another run not so near to his.

[miatapony]

i think i read some thing before about putting miss in the trailer then working him that might be a good start ?

[miatapony]

I also have a piar of polos if you need to use some.

[Country Girl 43]

I had someone suggest that when he acts stupid to throw a rock at his hinney, but not let him see me do it. Might snap his attention to say.."Whoa...where did THAT come from?"

[Vacker Hast]

You mentioned a pole that you would tie him to if the lead didn't slide down ... can you wrap some good ol' duct tape aroudn it in a thick enough layer so you can tie his lead above the wrap and it can't slip down? I'm sure there are many things that could be put on the pole but this is just one simple and easy idea.

I would use the rock tossing method but I'm sure it's not going to be a popular idea lol.

Another idea is could you load Dallas in the trailer while you are working with Missy and the kids or would he hurt himself in the trailer? I know you are trying to get the kids and horses ready for shows and you can't do it while Dallas is being such a buddy spoiled boy. I hope something works out soon for you. Good luck!!!

Stacy

[gaited07]

Three way hobble.

Tie to a large tree limb (from up above with a tire tube at the end) with hobbles.

If there are no other options on the tying area, ask the BO (barn owner) if you could put up a board on the rail while you tie him there.
Make it temp. by drilling holes in the plywood where you can use some wire to wire to the existing fence rail. All you would need is four wired spots to secure the board.

[Country Girl 43]

I might try the board.....at least I wouldn't have to worry about him getting his leg caught.

Trees....ummm we don't have too many here. Unless they are cactus or palm trees. The mesquite trees are not strong enough to hold up.

[IrisGreen]

If there are no other options on the tying area, ask the BO (barn owner) if you could put up a board on the rail while you tie him there.
Make it temp. by drilling holes in the plywood where you can use some wire to wire to the existing fence rail. All you would need is four wired spots to secure the board.

This is what I was just about to say. I think that's a great idea. It's simple, easy to remove and would prevent him from getting a leg caught in the rail. You would only need two pieces of ply wood to use on the two panels.

I think putting up the ply wood and putting wraps or boots on his legs would do the trick and be a safe area to tie him. I would just make sure the ply wood doesn't come up too far. You want it high enough to keep him from getting a leg caught in the rails but not too high to were he keeps wanting to rear to see over it.

I also like the Duct tape idea Vacker came up with. That would fix the problem of the rope slipping down a pole.

[HeavensEast]

My Morab gelding was just like this. He would go absolutely nuts when other horses would leave him, he still needs work on it.

I had a friend help me out with his issue.. She has a post outside with a blocker tie ring on it and he stayed tied there until he was calm. He learned that if he pulled back he didn't really get any resistance. We did this for 3 days in a row and I believe the last day he was only on the ring for about 10 minutes before he was perfectly calm. He was tied with a 20 ft lunge line and we held the end just in case he started going backwards. It worked really well. He taught himself to be tied, basically

Would it be possible to put in a wooden post somewhere? It would be nice for your BO to have also...

[Me'N'Chic]

I agree with the hobbles and also tying him--Good Luck CountryGirl--I need to work on this some myself!

[IrisGreen]

I want to hobble train Muffin. I think it's a good thing when done correctly and for the right reasons. I think Muffin has trained himself in a way from all the times he would get cast. He figured out that as soon as he realized he was stuck he would just lay there and wait for me to come help. I liked that he was calm and would let me work around him, tie ropes, and put his halter on with out him freaking out over being stuck. Though he hasn't cast himself in a long time I'm happy that if he did he is pretty calm about it and just looks back at the house waiting for me to come rescue him. lol

I think it would be pretty easy to hobble train him and it sure can save your horses leg if it ever does get caught. Plus, it teaches them to think instead of freak out, to look to you for help and to stay calm.

[Tiz]

I don't think adding hobbles to this mix is a good idea. Tied kind of low, to a rail fence, with hobbles, could add up to a real wreck. What he's doing in the video is aggravating, but he only takes it to a point. He's not setting back, and tearing the fence up by the roots, or trying to go over it. I'd be inclined to try to ignore him, and never untie him until he's quiet.

[Me'N'Chic]

If i did hobble; I agree--i wouldn't do it WHILE he's tied there--just try it some time like in the middle of his paddock or arena--some place safeand open.