My horse is a chore to ride

[JustDreamin]

Ok first of all I have a great bond with my horse, just not under saddle. Well maybe somewhat under saddle since I can calm him down jumping at things like pretend monsters. On the ground he's my dream horse, in the pasture, while eating he is my perfection and we have the tightest bond i've ever had with a horse. I can groom him anywhere, tack him up anywhere, ground tie him by the tack room, etc etc. Now under saddle today i've had enough. He is a pill to ride. He has to be steered every second and kicked, or urged every single step of the ride. He isn't as green as the grass or at least I know he knows much. He did great at show before and we've had good rides. I've had 3 other riders fed up with him and 2 of these people are trainer/experienced people, while the other is an intermediate rider. Any lessons/training help i've had I had to spend steering him towards the rail or keeping him at a trot. I am not intimidated by him at all and feel very comfortable on him(not afraid of bucks, spooks anything in the arena. Today I kicked(booted exactly like trainer told me) him, slapped him(I did not have a crop and made him trot), shouted(said trot, loosing my voice so I felt like I was shouting) and I felt like we were in a physical battle because we got nowhere. People might think I am soft with him but I am not babying him. There is 1 other trainer I can try him with but it will be the you don't move then you get your ass spurred type of trainer. So what should I do if I don't have much success with the pro trainer? I don't feel that it's a training problem with my horse. I feel that it is a major attitude problem. The trainer that has ridden him has to do the same things I do constantly and there's been no improvement. He's been the same for the trainer. A pill to ride, feels very safe, bomproof, but a total pill and like I said the ride has to plan him every step and practically move the horse itself or turn him. It feels like you are physically forcing him to lift a leg to move, etc.

[WashingtonBay]

Maybe he needs a higher energy feed! Sounds lazy :sleep:

[JustDreamin]

He was more energetic on alfalfa but he's been cut back on everything because he's overweight.
He does run around a LOT with the other horses in the pasture. I think he might be using up most of his energy that way.

[dustys_girlly]

he sounds really lazy, a pair of spurs and a crop might help. some horses you just have to have them with you when you ride and not use them. i use to ride a dude horse for school and if you did not have spurs on you would get nothing out of her. put spurs on and you only had to touch her once with them to let her know they where there and she would do anything you asked without a problem.

[JustDreamin]

Well you would think that that would work but it doesn't. My horse is a pro at walking sideways and will do anything not to walk in a straight line. I could make him trot with spurs or a crop but he would eventually crash into things because it's a chore to steer him go forward, move off leg, avoid things all at the same time. Yes with other horses moving forward will solve things but the main problem isn't exactly going into a trot or lope. He will trot but to keep him in it and straight or on the rail, yep good luck to anyone with that.

[natisha]

Is his eyesight normal?

[offgridgirl]

How about switching to the trails for while? Maybe he is ring sour???

[dustys_girlly]

have you ever got on him and got into the trot and them let him go? it almost sound like what a young horse does when starting out, too much at one time and they go all over the place. try riding in a round pen for a bit and work on just trot dont think about anything else. then work on inside leg for a bit then put the two together without your hands, he could just be overly sensitive to your hands, seat, and legs.

[Ryderd65]

Offgrid just read my mind. It's possible too his personality is more suited for the trails than the ring.

Sarge is a complete butthead in the arena, but get him on the trails and he shines. It's just his nature.

Gives you a good excuse to own a second horse too :D

[JustDreamin]

I do not know about his eyesight. I believe it is fairly normal because he doesn't crash into things when he walks around. I am very sure by the way he picks up stuff off the ground and does things that he can see quite well.

When trotting I do let him go. This causes him to trot sideways into the middle. Trust me, all the people who have rode him tried everything. On the trail he will follow but to lead same things happen. He's not ring sour. Riding outdoors he is this lazy too unless he's freaked out about something. He doesn't act like a horse. He acts like a toy that you manually have to move every single second or discipline.

[Vegashorselady]

He sounds a lot like my gelding. With Blue I would ride him on a loose rein on the rail and if he moved away from it I would then pick up the rein and move him back to the rail. Then I would release the presure again and continue on a loose rein. It took a while but eventually he figured out that if he stays on the rail then I stay out of his mouth and he quit wandering to the middle of the arena.

Regarding him being lazy at the trot, how is he on the lunge line? If you lunge him does he maintain the trot when you ask for it? If not then start there before expecting it in the saddle. If he does then lunge him a little bit before each ride and ask him to maintain that trot, he should remember when you get on his back.

This is what I do with my lazy boy under saddle if he won't maintain the trot: If I ask Blue to trot then he needs to stay in the trot until I ask him to change gait. If he doesn't then I yeild his hindquarters and change direction. He eventually learned that it was more work for him if he didn't do what I wanted. It took a while but after a month or so of being consitant with these things it got easier. He still needs a refresher course once in a while if he's had time off but it only takes one session to remind him.

Good luck! I hope you two can get it worked out or find a good trainer to help you out.:)

[oursarge]

Natasha beat me to my comment. My horse Sarge is exactly the same, he's the sweetest horse, get on his back you can't keep him on the rail, he walks crooked, trips, very frustrating to ride. He might do better for others but he's still not totally perfect. Sometimes on the trails he'd be great, other times not so great. He hated arena work, he does do better outside. Turns out he has uveitis, his eyes vary, there are times they are totally normal and other times he has very little vision. Last year at this time he had very little vision in his right eye. Last time the vet checked his eye was almost back to normal. It's like a yo-yo. Anyway maybe it would be a good idea to have his vision checked, he might not walk straight because he can't see right. I know that's what's wrong with my boy.

He's part Haflinger and working isn't tops on his list, he is lazy, needs a crop but still the walking crooked thing I'm sure is because of his sight. I hope that isn't the case for your horse, I live in fear of my baby going blind. We watch his eyes and have ointment to start right away, he's on Devil's claw and if he has a flare up he gets Bute and Devil's Claw, he also gets Beta Carotine/Lysine vitamins. He wears a fly mask if it's sunny or windy. I hold my breath every day that he doesn't have a flare up. He was out of commission most of last summer because of his eyes, first one then the other. I worked him but didn't ride him.

My horse never crashed into anything even when he was totally blind in one eye. You would never know he didn't have sight in that eye except for the fact it looked cloudy. I rode him when he was blind in the eye and he would not want to be on the rail going that direction. I can always tell when his sight is off when I'm lunging him. If he does perfectly both directions then his sight is fine but if he goes good one way and I turn him and he gets upset then I now his eyes are not right. Just looking sometimes won't tell, the vet has to look into it with that eye thingy they use. I truly hope that's not your horse's problem but he sounds so much like mine I'd have him checked just to be sure.

[cloedoll]

Today I kicked him, slapped him, shouted and I felt like we were in a physical battle because we got nowhere.



Well, IMHO, that will get you nowhere. You shouldn't have to be physically exhausted to get your horse to listen to you or attempt to listen to you, they should respect you and listen when you ask them something. How does his saddle fit? I ask that because my old gelding was surprisingly lazy when I first got him, but when I had a saddle fitted to him (other one was too narrow), HOLY COW. You couldn't get him to stop. Also, you mentioned he goes sideways? I don't know, but it could be the saddle or at least a part of the problem. What kind of feed is he getting? We have some members here that know their feeds and maybe he is lacking something, getting too little of something, or well, something lol.

[twofingers]

I suggest you start with ground work from point 1 and watch what you are doing. you should not have to shout, kick and slap your horse. you have been given some real good suggestions, but 90% of all our problems with horses are ourselves.

[JustDreamin]

I mentioned that yesterday was was the breaking point. I slapped him because he deserved the slap. I did shout at him when he acted up once because he deserved it. I was advised to kick him by the trainer when he went off the rail if he didn't respond to SOFT pressure. I've been using the 3 second rule when I had the trainer out. The trainer rode him like this. Ask gently, if no response use more pressure, then kick him to move over. He CANNOT get away with things. I am a very very SOFT quiet rider. Everyone has told me to get more AGRESSIVE with him. I did not constantly shout. I only implied that I was more aggressive. And yes I did BOOT him. That's what I mean by kicking. I did not abuse my horse. I'm not even physically that stong, im a small person. I wouldn't hurt a fly. And YES he did deserve to be booted(without spurs) because I asked nicely and he wasn't listening well. I did not have a crop so yes I SLAPPED him with my hand when he crow hopped with me. I made him move forward. I will not let my horse get away with any attempt at bucking, etc. Saddle fit is fine. You cannot always blame things on saddle fit. I've had the saddle fitted.
Oursarge I know my horse isn't near blind, etc but you got me thinking. He sees wierd things. Maybe everything is cloudy for him. He was very afraid of things that don't exist. He's more freaked out about things falling in the arena than he was before. Is it possible that he could be farsighted? I do have to steer him around every obstacle or he will walk into it and knock it over(barrels, mounting block).

[natisha]

Maybe you could get him a check-up just to be sure. If he checks out OK this sounds like baby stuff you'll be able to work through.
Have you tried following another horse around the arena? Weaving through cones helps too as then the leg cues start to make sense to the horse.

[JustDreamin]

Are there any tests I could do to check his vision? I don't think he has anything going on that would be too visible just from watching him. Should I lunge him and set up some obstacles and see if he avoids them? Maybe he sees stuff but it's very hazy.

[natisha]

Are there any tests I could do to check his vision? I don't think he has anything going on that would be too visible just from watching him. Should I lunge him and set up some obstacles and see if he avoids them? Maybe he sees stuff but it's very hazy. Cotton balls. Toss them up & drop them from about his ear height, he should at least show some interest in them. Also shake/snap your fingers towards his eye as if you were shaking off water (he should blink) Do these to each individual eye.
On a side note, my sisters horse did this too when he was young. Remember a horse sees differently than we do, as their eyes are on the sides of their head, he may just be turning his body to see as you are likely keeping his head straight as you should.

[oursarge]

I can't tell you what to do but if it was my horse I'd call the vet and have him come check his eyes. You can't tell yourself unless you have the thingy [a real medical term huh?!] that looks into their eyes and then you'd have to know what you are looking for. They can see things with it that we can't see ourselves. If a person looked at my horse when he was blind in his one eye [He went totally blind in each eye at different times] you'd never know it, when it first happened his eye was cloudy but then it went clear but he was blind. He has never even walked into things he just would not walk on the rail, he was walking sideways, it was maddening and getting him to trot was making me want to pull my hair out. We thought he was being a real brat until his eyes were checked. When we didn't know anything was wrong I had him on a trail ride and he was really good, he walked much better on trail rides I'm not sure why but when the dog came up on his blind side he took off running [That was "fun", I didn't know he could move so fast! Thankfully he is good at the one rein stop and there were no cars coming.] I knew when he got his sight back from lunging and he didn't freak on me. He really isn't a horse that spooks much, he's about as calm as calm can be but when his eyes are bad that's when he goes all weird but it's ONLY when he's working, in the pasture you can not tell. I had no idea when the vet told me he had almost no vision in his one eye, you couldn't tell, it didn't look any different and it didn't look different to me when he rechecked it and said the vision was almost perfect again. I don't know. When he's out in the pasture even when his eye is bad he'll run and play you won't know anything is wrong with him but working him he gets all freaked out. Maybe when he's on his own he feels he has control of where his body is going but when he's being told what to do he gets upset because he isn't sure what will happen if he can't see right.

If you take a flashlight and shine it in your horses eye does the pupil change? I think that might be a hint of their sight but I'm not sure, my friend was always looking in there with a flashlight, I did when we were checking to see if the cloudiness was going away but once it was gone it was hard for me to tell what I was looking at except to make sure the pupil wasn't just a slit like it had been. If you look in do you see any specks like an injury that has healed? Have his eyes or eye been running at all? Has there been any yellow junk in the corners? Has his eye been closed? I live in fear of going out and seeing his eye running or closed.

I don't know if a horse can be near sighted or far sighted but if he's walking into things I truly think his eyes are not right, I might be totally wrong but when I started to read your post the first thing I thought of was his sight because my boy acted so much like that, I'm guessing if he was blind on the side towards the rail he wasn't seeing anything and it was making him want to walk to the area he could see, maybe my guy did better outside because it was brighter and he could see better, I really don't know I just know riding him in the arena was the most frustrating thing. I have him home now and when I ride him outside he's OK as long as his eyes are OK. Thing is if a horse has an old injury it might never see right and we can't tell and they can't talk to tell us. Sarge's condition comes and goes. Good luck. I really hope he doesn't have an eye problem and it's just a training issue.

[JustDreamin]

Oursarge your experience sounds very similar to mine. Even down to the trail riding part. He's only had a problem with his left eye. This is the eye he was prescribed eye drops in. It was very watery for a while. I don't know what caused it. He moves sideways and it is hard to keep his head straight. He wants to pull his head around. Usually he pulls to the left. Does that make sense that he's over bending that way and trying to see with his right eye? Oh and the object is usually on our left and he crashes into it.

[Petra]

I know I really shouldn't be giving any advice, as I am really not experienced at all. But I'm going to tell you what worked for me anyways because when I was reading about your horse it was as if my husband had a clone of your horse! You totally described Trigger.
He actually wouldn't even respond when asked to stop.
My friend came over; she said she is an experienced rider and wanted to ride him. Me being so new to horses I though maybe I'm doing something wrong.
She started kicking and slapping him to make him move. He took off with the intention to loose the rider on the way. She couldn't even stop him. He had his head high and he kept shaking it. (She got pretty upset with him, said he is not even green broke and dangerous.)
For one his saddle wasn't fitting right, but this wasn't really the cause - he was no different bareback.
I started working with him in a coral every day for only about 30 minutes. I try to make it an everyday routine. Started from very basics. If he didn't listen I got off and I made him run around until he got tired and than tried again. He soon figured out that it is less work to listen. I also worked on the lateral flexion with him - tying his reins one at a time for few minutes to the saddle. (As I've seen on the TV) It helped; he got pretty soft.
Two weeks later all I have to do is make couple of clucking sounds and squeeze my legs to make him trot. He learned to back up and he stops the first time I ask. He can even do figure 8s. He is still not great, does much better in the coral than out in the open. The important thing is that he seems to be getting better and better every day. I'm sure what works with our horse may not work with yours. I wish you the best of luck; hopefully you'll find what works on your horse.

[oursarge]

Oursarge your experience sounds very similar to mine. Even down to the trail riding part. He's only had a problem with his left eye. This is the eye he was prescribed eye drops in. It was very watery for a while. I don't know what caused it. He moves sideways and it is hard to keep his head straight. He wants to pull his head around. Usually he pulls to the left. Does that make sense that he's over bending that way and trying to see with his right eye? Oh and the object is usually on our left and he crashes into it.

What were the eye drops for? Alot of times the watery eye can be Uveitis and that is not good. I think that my Sarge was turning his head so he could see better, he would never walk with his head straight while in the arena no matter what we did he walked crooked with his head turned and I do think it was so he could see better. Everything in the arena was bad, I don't think that we ever had more than one good ride in the arena but on trail rides he was alot better, maybe the walls bothered him because they are big and dark where outside he feels more free, I don't know. I really hope that your horse straightens out but before I would suggest a vet check his eyes just for peace of mind, if they are fine then maybe it is a training problem but there are so many similarities I worry about your horse's eye or eyes. Problem with Uveitis [if that is what it is] is that it can get into both eyes and that is my biggest fear, I worry about my guy all the time. I have other horses to ride so I don't worry so much about riding him but I just worry about him going blind and not having a good quality of life.

[twofingers]

baring physical problems. I might suggest a book written by Mary Twelve Ponys titled: There Are No Problem Horses Only Problem Riders. I agree with you in your rejection of spurs and crops or whips. Mind you the title of the book is not me saying anything about. but in general if there is a problem, the human is the answer.

[JustDreamin]

Thanks for the help

[oursarge]

baring physical problems. I might suggest a book written by Mary Twelve Ponys titled: There Are No Problem Horses Only Problem Riders. I agree with you in your rejection of spurs and crops or whips. Mind you the title of the book is not me saying anything about. but in general if there is a problem, the human is the answer.

Now you have me thinking, I have that book, I wonder where it is? I remember she used to write an advise column in one of the horse magazines. I always read it when I was a kid. I didn't have a horse but I bought magazines. I haven't heard that name in yrs. Gotta go find the book, I know it's gotta be here somewhere. I remember reading it and it was good.

I really do not think Twofingers is trying to insult you I think that he's trying to help and I have always heard that same thing, it's people who cause the problems sometimes right from the very start when the foal is born and they don't get it so it trusts people. Not saying YOU caused any problems, maybe a person in a horse's past did something to upset the horse and that has to be worked through or maybe who ever trained it wasn't a great trainer so the horse gets confused. My best friend is a trainer and she says the same thing, it's not the horse's fault it's the person's fault not even meaning the person who has the horse now but maybe someone from it's past. "Someone really messed this horse up" is what I hear more than anything when I'm up there with her. She can normally help the horse if she's given time to work through all of his issues and most times that means taking it back to the beginning and starting over.

If only they could talk and tell us what is wrong, are they confused, not feeling like working [My Sarge NEVER feels like working! He lives to eat] not feeling good, what ever. They can't talk so it's up to us to do what we can to try to figure out what is going on. People start at the simple things, saddles, teeth, feet, eyes etc.. If it's none of that stuff well then maybe it's a behavior issue that is coming up from something that happened in the horse's past.

I don't want to speak for Twofingers but I don't think he's picking on you like you seem to think he is but maybe somewhere in your horse's history someone did something to mix him up or he's used to doing something one way and you are asking him a way he doesn't understand and since he doesn't understand he doesn't do anything. If it's not his eyes [I'm almost betting it is even though I hope I'm wrong] maybe you can start from square one with training so habits he has now are changed, it can be done it takes time and ALOT of patience.

I'm not a vet and I don't know alot but I'd have his eyes checked, it's not normal for a horse to be walking into things. I'd check on his eyes especially if one was running and has already had treatment for something. If it's not then maybe starting him over again and let him learn how you want things done and not what maybe others taught him and confused him. Good Luck.