PMU information

[vicklynn]

I had a conversation with a friend who reads ALOT, but not much experience, or dealing with people who actually have experience, so I got shut down really quick about what I thought PMU horses were, because of what she read.

Tell me everything you know about PMU horses, tame, wild, ect ect ect.

[Mercury]

My experience has been that they are handled little to non at all. When you get a "PMU" horse most often its the babies since really all they want is the pregnant mare urine. I would imagine the mares are likely handled more since they have to collect the urine somehow...

[WashingtonBay]

The mares are probably halter broke and at least handled. The babies, I would imagine have been around people so are 'tamer' than wild, but not typically halter broke or trained.

We have several on the forum who have them. I'll see if my impressions are correct.

What did your friend say about them?

[Cat]

Actually - some of the better PMU farms are handling the babies. My friend has a couple and they both came registered & halter broke.

[TheBadLands]

I have Whiskey here... he is a product of a PMU mare from Canada.

His story:

His mother was kept in stocks 24 hours a day and constantly impregnated. When the mares foal, they are allowed a small amount of time to foal and get the baby up on its feet, then returned to the stocks. Foals are weaned at 1 to 2 months of age (too early imho)

Whiskey was then turned out, untouched by human hands, and at age 2 was finally auctioned off. From there, instead of recieving a solid, healthy training foundation, Whiskey was passed around from one trainer to the next deemed "untrainable".

PMU foals who are not fortunate enough to be adopted early in life suffer tremendous consequences. They are unhandled, ill kept and often abused. Many of them end up slaughter bound. Which was Whiskey's owners last resort if someone couldn't help him.

He is 5, never had his feet done, had never had a bath, never been brushed...nothing... because by this time he was so fearful of people that he was untouchable.

I have a video here I made for him last month. He was supposed to go home. But will be with me another month to be started under saddle:

YouTube - whiskeybye

[Mercury]

Actually - some of the better PMU farms are handling the babies. My friend has a couple and they both came registered & halter broke.

This is true. I knew one that kept only registered horses and gave the mares 2 yrs pregnant one year off. They were actually pretty nice stock. There studs were shown and a couple used consistantly as roping horses in rodeos.

However the PMU's we had come into the barn were handfulls. Some of it was just baby, but a lot of it was having zero human contact except getting on the trailer.

[FlapJack]

Jack was from a PMU farm in Manitoba. When he came he had a bad fitting halter on and I don't think he was handled much (or handled well), because he was afraid of any touch and we had to make a sort of makeshift chute to get him to his stall. He warmed up to me quickly though and now he's good at meeting new people, too. He was about 5 months old when he came to us.

I don't know much about the mares but I imagine WB is correct in that they are at least halter broke.

[vicklynn]

My friend said that they have state requirements on them, or federal, which didnt mean a damn to me.
What I was saying is what Badlands said, not ALL of them are handled and alot of them are wild or wildish.
Her response, NO they are ALL tame, they are, what ever she said about the federal and state stuff, mandated, ect. Thats in books, not what really happens, as we know it.
She looked at me like I had NO friggen clue, and this is a girl that reads and has no experience, ie, rides IN the horses mouth no matter how many times I tell her not to, how to change her and her horses attitude, ie circles, ect. She starts to get in Mysts mouth and I back her off ASAP. NO one is allowed to ride my horses anymore because of her and her so called "I know how to ride" friends(if ya remember the girl that got hurt.
Well, I cant say no one, but ya better be horse knowlagable before you mount, and that means Id better know you and know and horses well.
Her and her husband are now helping this green guy buy a horse, and I just told the husband that Im concerned because they have NEVER trained a horse, and dont have the knowlegde to help purchase one.
He had no clue how to look for splints, try to explain that over the phone, glands, ect. Then he started going ya ya, like I was the dumb chit.
I am about done with them and the horse stuff. They can be my friends, but NO horse talk.
I can go on about what is going on with these people, there "helping" this guy buy, and he says how my horse is 20K so thats why I take care of him like I do....um, I took care of my 350, 500, 700, 1500 dollar horses the best way I know how, with where they are living. They DONT.
Thanks for letting me blow, Im just ugh, dont even have a word for it.

[TheRedHayflinger]

a friend and I adopted two PMU mares back when they started shutting down a lot of the farms....I got a 4 y/o reg. QH mare and she got a 10+ y/o grade buckskin mare. The 4 y/o was skittish being handled, she was supposed to be a maiden in foal, but was not in foal (thankfully...even though I thought she would be when I got her..lol). She was hard to catch and spirited...but did prefer men handling her. I sold her to a 4-H kid and his parents (they knew what they were doing...sold her for what I paid adopting her) and you could tell she prefered the man or his son handling her..they even got her loaded up on the trailer in 2 seconds..lol.
The buckskin was supposed to be open...but SURPRISE...we were treating for ringworm on both of them and I crawled under her to check her belly and her udders were bursting full...she did not look pregnant other than that. She ended up having a big healthy buckskin baby...at any rate...this mare was much easier to handle and we were even riding her within a month or two of bringing her here.

I've had friends adopt the foals before and they said generally--no handling..but they come around quick, especially if they are kept in a small paddock with no other horses.


Both the mares were in fairly decent condition, considering they traveled from Alberta CAN to Kentucky at our dropoff point to be picked up to come here to OH, put on a trailer with a lot of other mares. The semi's would make pit stops at stock yards and large farms to unload the mares and let them take breaks to drink, eat hay, run around, stretch out.

Most PMU farms are inspected for suitable conditions for mares..the mares are turned out, bred, pregnancy checked and once checked "in foal" they are kept in decent sized tie stalls with their urine collecting system on them, but they have enough room and are able to move around a bit and even lay down if they wish. The farmers do not want to stress the mare out to lose the foal, so they take care of them(the good ones anyway). Once the mare has foaled...they are turned back out with their foals and a stallion until the babies are weaned..then preg. checked and brought back in if checked.

[TheBadLands]

My friend said that they have state requirements on them, or federal, which didnt mean a damn to me.
What I was saying is what Badlands said, not ALL of them are handled and alot of them are wild or wildish.
Her response, NO they are ALL tame, they are, what ever she said about the federal and state stuff, mandated, ect. Thats in books, not what really happens, as we know it.
She looked at me like I had NO friggen clue, and this is a girl that reads and has no experience, ie, rides IN the horses mouth no matter how many times I tell her not to, how to change her and her horses attitude, ie circles, ect. She starts to get in Mysts mouth and I back her off ASAP. NO one is allowed to ride my horses anymore because of her and her so called "I know how to ride" friends(if ya remember the girl that got hurt.
Well, I cant say no one, but ya better be horse knowlagable before you mount, and that means Id better know you and know and horses well.
Her and her husband are now helping this green guy buy a horse, and I just told the husband that Im concerned because they have NEVER trained a horse, and dont have the knowlegde to help purchase one.
He had no clue how to look for splints, try to explain that over the phone, glands, ect. Then he started going ya ya, like I was the dumb chit.
I am about done with them and the horse stuff. They can be my friends, but NO horse talk.
I can go on about what is going on with these people, there "helping" this guy buy, and he says how my horse is 20K so thats why I take care of him like I do....um, I took care of my 350, 500, 700, 1500 dollar horses the best way I know how, with where they are living. They DONT.
Thanks for letting me blow, Im just ugh, dont even have a word for it.

Wow vick! Sorry you're going through that. Unfortunately, I feel your pain and finally had to decide "I can't save everyone".... and turn my back to some people. As hard as it is... there are two kinds of people:

Horse People

and People who simply own horses...

[vicklynn]

OH I forgot to mention, yesterday the conversation on the PMUs started while they were helping him look at Mustangs. I tried to tell this guy he needs a Myst type horse, but he is not listening. Even the guy that owns the Mustangs tried to tell him he needs an old broke horse. He stood there petting this 2 yr old....HELOOOOOO greeny.

[outriding01]

We got 5 PMU foals about 5 years ago. They were mostly unhandled, but pretty curious and outgoing, not very scared. They were a handful but overall relatively easy to halter break. They were not what I would consider tame by any means though.
Now we still have 3 of them and all 3 are competing successfully on the A-circuit. Another is doing schooling shows on the east coast of the state with a young girl and one is doing three day eventing in SC.

[vicklynn]

We got 5 PMU foals about 5 years ago. They were mostly unhandled, but pretty curious and outgoing, not very scared. They were a handful but overall relatively easy to halter break. They were not what I would consider tame by any means though.
Now we still have 3 of them and all 3 are competing successfully on the A-circuit. Another is doing schooling shows on the east coast of the state with a young girl and one is doing three day eventing in SC.
So, would you come talk to this lady for me...oh wait, better yet, hit your head on a brick wall, you'd get a better reaction...(shut up vick, be nice.....awww Im frustrated)(that comment was negative twards her, not you)

[TheBadLands]

The young ones seem to do much better.. but imagine a 2 year old, completely unhandled draft cross... then imagine three more years of absolute mistreatment from "trainers"... then you have created a monster :(

[Cat]

A green horse owner & rider should not be looking at a untrained horse - PMU, mustang or otherwise. How frustrating.

[TheBadLands]

I agree with cat... that is what makes Whiskey (as in this horse in the video)....

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A SOLID FOUNDATION

Believe me vicki I've begged people not to buy babies and unbroke horses for their first horse.. they don't listen. There's nothing you can do except cover your eyes when the poop hits the fan...

[vicklynn]

I agree with cat... that is what makes Whiskey (as in this horse in the video)....

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A SOLID FOUNDATION

Believe me vicki I've begged people not to buy babies and unbroke horses for their first horse.. they don't listen. There's nothing you can do except cover your eyes when the poop hits the fan...
You mean I cant say,,,,I friggen told ya so. :whack:

[TheBadLands]

No..I'd say that, too lol :cowboy:

[WashingtonBay]

Well, first time green horse owners shouldn't buy young untrained green horses anyway. "We" all know that. We know how often it ends in disaster from being around forums like this one. For every one that has made it work, I remember a dozen who ended up hurt, scared, and in possession of a horse they can't do anything with, or too often, afford to have trained for them.

[cheval]

Never have had any good experience with one. Sadly the ones I've seen/dealt with come from places where they got manhandled instead of taught to lead and manhandled in every other way so they were freaked out by people. It's a real gamble for the people that buy them sight unseen. When you add the drafty stocky size and sometimes attitude with that you get a lot of property and people damage.

I've heard of some great success stories though but I don't think I'd ever get one. I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to drafts anyway. :cool:

[cheval]

Well, first time green horse owners shouldn't buy young untrained green horses anyway. "We" all know that. We know how often it ends in disaster from being around forums like this one. For every one that has made it work, I remember a dozen who ended up hurt, scared, and in possession of a horse they can't do anything with, or too often, afford to have trained for them.

EXACTLY THIS!!!!

The ones mentioned in the above post I made were first time owners who wanted drafts and didn't believe in green = black and blue. They found out pretty damn quickly though. One ended up going to an auction the other two I never heard what happened too.

[vicklynn]

Oh and guess what I found out a while ago. He is in love with a 2 yr old PERCHERON....hellllooooooo.
I had a talk with my friends, they said they have been trying to talk to him about an older ridable horse, yet, I heard the wife talking to him yesterday, and find that NOT to be the truth. He dosnt know the things I hear her say, or what she says to me, and IF I were to say anything, which I have dont in the past, he enables her responses that I have told him.

[IrisGreen]

Muffin is a PMU but I got him as a 10 month old, wild but not mishandled or abused. The rescue wouldn't let me adopt him because I was a first time horse owner. I had to let her talk to my Mom on the phone so she could explain to the lady why she felt I could handle it and how she would help me if I needed any help. Luckily Mom talked the lady into letting me adopt him even though he would be my first horse and the lady was reluctant about it.

I did like that the rescue was going to turn me down at first because I was a first time horse owner. That showed that they were wanting the best for the horse and not just selling it to pass it off on someone that thought it was cute.

The lady told me all about what to expect and that he was not going to be halter broke or socialized. He was a wild colt coming off 200 acres of mountain land up in Canada. I purchased him at 6 months old but by the time they got enough adopted to finally load the truck and have them hauled down he was 10 months old and big!!

But, I was determined to raise him up right and teach him how to be a well rounded horse. I think I did a good job with him so far. Not saying it was easy but with Mom's advice and my own common since I was happy raising my own colt. I wanted a horse I could raise and grow with not a horse that was already trained and owned by other people.

I knew what I was getting in to and wanted that challenge, that bond, and to watch him grow. I'm happy that I raised Muffin myself :) Not saying I would recommend first time horse owners by a wild colt but that's what I wanted and I knew what I was getting in to and what hard work it would require. But, the finished product, the bond and the experience you gain is wonderful. If your smart enough to not get hurt in the process and take all the advice from more experienced people anytime you can get it! ;)

[vicklynn]

That is cool Iris. This guy works 5 afternoon evenings at a show, does NOT live on the same property, or close by. The only 2 days off he will have, whos gonna show him what to do???????
The horse will be out with 5 untrained horses.

[zoel_222]

As hard as it is... there are two kinds of people:

Horse People

and People who simply own horses...


Amen sister

[spotsmom]

We have 6 (well 3 mares, because I don't really consider the babies PMU since they were born with us). They are all completely different. I ride Blaze around the pasture in a halter and lead rope, very level headed. I am slowly training Cinnamon to trust- she is very skittish, but learns quickly when I break it into baby steps and take my time. Then there's Gypsy. It took me a month just to touch her...She's my work in progress. They are 12, 9 and 11.

I don't regret adopting them, I absolutely adore my all 6 of my babies. Would I do it again, I don't know... I know many people say the farmers take good care of them etc etc, but on these farms they are treated like livestock, not like family members.

[Vegashorselady]

I have a friend here that adopted 3 pmu draft cross foals when they were 6 months old. They were so scared when they arrived we couldn't even get them out of the trailer at first. She is a busy person with a full time job and kids but swore that she was going to have them all halter broken in a month...hah! Needless to say a month later she could still barely touch them. Now they are three year olds and she ended up giving two of them away because she didn't have the time, experience, or money to get them saddle trained. The third one she kept because she likes how he looks but he's still not trained at all.

If someone is going to get a pmu foal they need to know whether they are getting a wild one or not, some farms may work with the foals but none of the pmu's I've seen came from farms like that. They also need to be prepared to put the time and effort into training that horse or else it will be a train wreck in the end.

Sorry these people aren't taking your advice Vick. It's really frustrating, I know. I used to try and help people out to keep them and the horse from getting hurt but I've learned that you just can't help people that don't want help and usually they don't want help until after the train wreck has happened. I'm surprised I haven't bitten my tongue off I've had to bite it so many times!

[HoustonFarrier]

Let me tell you.....if you want to see how fast a farrier can run...tell him you've got PMU mares :D

Steve

[IrisGreen]

That is cool Iris. This guy works 5 afternoon evenings at a show, does NOT live on the same property, or close by. The only 2 days off he will have, whos gonna show him what to do???????
The horse will be out with 5 untrained horses.

Yeah, That does sound like a train wreck. He has no time, it's not going to be on his property and it's going to be put out with other untrained horses....Not a good idea.

I had Muffin at my place, with no other horses and I had full control over every aspect of his routine and training. No distractions to get in the way of him looking to me as his leader. Once you have a bond or a trust with them then you can put in distractions and other horses but you need that alone time to get them used to you feeding every day, cleaning out there stall and starting to halter brake and handle them.

This guy has no idea what he's getting in to or how much time it takes to get a bond with a wild horse. Especially if it's kept with other untrained horses and he's not the one out there everyday taking care of it and feeding it.

[Country Girl 43]

Well, I don't know anything about PMU horses, except what I have read here on the forum. I know with my lack of time, and the kids, I would never buy one.

It's true, people always "think" they can train a horse, but when it comes right down to the nitty gritty, they learn too soon, it's not all they thought it would be.

I was out of horses for several years. When I got back into them, I looked for the calmest horse I could find for my daughter. We found Ladybird. She wasn't pretty but dang that horse and my daughter had a bond that could not be broken.

When I bought Dallas, I had talked with Vick first. She knew he was green and I had some experience with horses from my past. We both agreed it would be a good fit and EVENTUALLY the kids will be able to ride him. I have trained him from the ground up. Did have to send off to a trainer to keep from rearing, because I was too fragile to handle that. But now we are doing good. Would I put my kids on him right now? Nope! But that's only because of my lack of time on him.

People who don't know a thing about horses should not buy a green horse or even a baby. It's just a crash waiting to happen.

[cheval]

Let me tell you.....if you want to see how fast a farrier can run...tell him you've got PMU mares :D

Steve

None of the barn farriers would work on the ones that were here.

[IrisGreen]

I found the pics of when Muffin first arrived. :)

The rescue had him trucked down with other horses then I had to hire a guy to transport him to my place 2 hours away because I didn't have a trailer at the time.

This is Muffin in a open 4 horse slant load tailer at only 10 months old!

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/DesignersPet/Muffin%20Pics/MuffinHome-1.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/DesignersPet/Muffin%20Pics/MuffinHome2.jpg

This is how close you could get to him before he walked away.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/DesignersPet/Muffin%20Pics/MuffinHome3.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/DesignersPet/Muffin%20Pics/MuffinHome5.jpg

The next day. You could say he was food motivated! I was stiff as a board letting him eat out of that tub or he would spook from me.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/DesignersPet/Muffin%20Pics/MuffinFood.jpg

One week later after spending hours and hours reading next to his pen and letting him get used to me on his terms. Now I can't get ride of him! lol He wants to check out everything I bring into his pen just in case it's food! lol
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/DesignersPet/Muffin%20Pics/MuckMuffin8.jpg

I got really lucky with Muffin. His personality and my patience really paid off and once he trusted me after hours and hours of spending time with him, I had a very curious youngster on my hands that was happy when I came out to spend time with him. Then all the fun starts with real training, picking up feet, halter braking, lead training and so on. I got really lucky that Muffin's personality was so curious and he hadn't been previously mishandled or abused.

Would I take on one of the older mares, nope. But, I would take on one of the baby's again. If there untouched like Muffin was, then you can start from the beginning and teach them to trust people from the get go. I had it pretty easy because I had all the time in the world to spend with him and he was here on our property with little distractions.