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Ryle
10-18-2008, 09:14 AM
First, understand that you should always involve your vet in planning your deworming program and that's even more important now because strategic deworming should be done rather than following the old "deworm every 6-8 weeks rotating dewormers" which will no longer provide effective protection for your horse and will only help to build resistance. Along with the development of resistance is the fact that we now know that 20% of horses carry 80% of the parasites and those are the ones that need a more stringent deworming regimen while the other 80% of horses will need less frequent dewormings because they have a better resistance to parasites and thus don't carry big burdens even without frequent dewormings. . Add in the fact that environmental conditions vary all over the world and they have a direct affect on environmental contamination with parasite larve and on when infection rates are going to be highest in each situation. All of these facts mean that there is no "one-size-fits-all" deworming program. Some horses may only need deworming twice yearly while others like foals require much more frequent dewormings. So, rather than just following the old plan it's now recommended to practice strategic deworming--plan a program based upon the specifics of each horse and use diagnostic testing to ensure that the program is appropriate or to determine when deworming is necessary. This is to help reduce the number of dewormings to help slow the development of resistance while still providing adequate deworming for each horse. This is important because there aren't any new deworming drugs that will be hitting the market anytime soonIt is important to take all factors into account and know which horses are more resistant and which are less resistant in order to plan a deworming program that is going to be effective for minimizing parasite loads, minimizing the frequency of treatments and also minimizing the risk/rate of parasite resistance developing to the drugs in use.
So, rather than just following the old plan it's now recommended to practice strategic deworming--plan a program based upon the specifics of each horse and use diagnostic testing to ensure that the program is appropriate or to determine when deworming is necessary. This is to help reduce the number of dewormings to help slow the development of resistance while still providing adequate deworming for each horse. This is important because there aren't any new deworming drugs that will be hitting the market anytime soon.

There are 4 classes of dewormer on the market:
benzimendazoles --fenbendazole, oxibendazole, other chemicals that end in -azole (there is a long list)
pyrantels---pyrantel pamoate (paste) and pyrantel tartrate (daily dewormer)
avermectins---ivermectin and moxidectin
praziquantel

Of those 4 classes, all but praziquantel are "broad spectrum" meaning that they kill several types of parasites. It is not necessary (or at least was not prior to the developement of parasite resistance) to rotate dewormers using these products to kill the most common parasites of horses. The "rotate to kill the different types of parasites" was necessary when we only had the much older drugs which were often only effective against one or two types of parasites. Praziquantel is the only one of the current drugs that is not broad spectrum and it kills tapeworms which the other drugs are not effective against unless you use pyrantel at twice the normal dose.

But, these drugs are not all as effective as they used to be because they have been over-used and mis-used for many years. Now we have parasites that are becoming and have become resistant to these drugs so we have to change our deworming strategies to help slow the build up of resistance while still minimizing the parasite load in our horses.

When planning a deworming program for adult horses, your main concerns are strongyles, tapeworms and bots in that order. (And this is where you can really see the big problem with deworming based on that link above.) Strongyles are the parasite with the most resistance issues--in more than 90% of areas tested these parasites are now resistant to fenbendazole and in more than 40% they are resistant to pyrantel. There has even been 1 study showing strongyles becomeing resistant to ivermectin. So, the standard rotation in that link you are likely not going to be effectively killing strongyles for 1, maybe 2 and even as many as 3 out of 3 dewormings.

For foals, your main concerns are ascarids, strongyles, tapes and bots. So you have the same concerns as with adults---resistant strongyles, but you also have the added concern of ascarids which are shown to be resistant to ivermectin in some areas of the country. Rotating is still a good idea in foals so that you balance possibly not killing ascarids with one treatment and then the next treatment killing ascarids but possibly not killing strongyles. However, it's probably best to stick to rotating either pyrantel or fenbendazole with ivermectin.

So, rotation options are limited at best and it's really not the rotation that is most important for preventing parasite resistance but appropriate dosing and treatment intervals.

You need to be SURE you are not under dosing your horses so always use a weight tape or measure your horse and calculate his weight. In studies even many vets were way off on weight estimations and they have the benefit of spending a few years working in situations where they get to walk horses onto scales daily to see what 900 lbs LOOKS LIKE.

Weight calculation information:
Body Weight Estimation of Horses (http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/98-093.htm) KG calculation shown as well as a chart based upon heart girth measure (remember, the heart girth only assessment may be off by as much as 200 lbs just like weight tapes)
Horse Weight: Estimate It Easily (http://www.cowboyway.com/HowTo/HorseWeight.htm) How to calculate in pounds

As for appropriate dosing intervals, you want to treat according to the egg reappearance period so that you are dosing to prevent continual recontamination of your pastures. This method means that you will be cutting back on your horse's risk of parasite infestation significantly after a year appropriate dewormings because you will have cut the number of parasite larva on your pastures. It also means that you won't be deworming at a time when there are no parasites in the system that will be susceptible to the product you are using next which happens if you dose too soon after ivermectin or moxidectin with pyrantel or fenbendazole because at normal doses these two chemicals only kill adults in the GI tract and if you've dewormed with moxidectin last 8 weeks ago there aren't adults there to kill and you've missed the migrating larva which will then start shedding eggs 4 weeks after you treat with either of these drugs and shed for the 4 weeks until you deworm again. Or if you dewormed with ivermectin 6 weeks ago and treat with either pyrantel or fenbendazole you will start seeing egg shedding into your pasture in 2 weeks because you didn't have adults in the GI tract when you dewormed last but they will be there in a couple of weeks. Or in the case where you actually do have adults for the pyrantel or fenbendazole (which again is not likely to be working) to affect because it's been 8 weeks since your last dose of ivermectin you will again have parasite ova being shed in 4 weeks because that is how long after the use of either of those drugs you start seeing adult egg shedding parasites in the GI tract. So deworming based upon Egg Reappearance Periods, you would deworm and then deworm again based upon what drug you used last--4 weeks later for pyrantel (or Fenbendazole, though the next day would probably be more useful LOL), 8 weeks after ivermectin or 12 weeks after moxidectin. In this manner, you can significantly reduce the parasite load on your pastures in a year's time.

Ryle
10-18-2008, 09:14 AM
(was too long for a single post on here so had to split it in two)

Besides deworming, there are pasture maintenance practices that can help to minimize pasture contamination with parasite larva. Rotating pastures with other types of livestock (cattle, sheep, goats) can allow time for the parasite larva to die off before you put horses back on it but you have to have many months between rotations. Picking up feces at least every 2-3 days will also greatly reduce the parasite load on your pastures. (Doing this daily will keep the amount of feces you have to shovel at one time down ) Dragging pastures to break up feces during the very hot, dry southern summers will also help lower parasite burden on pastures, but if you do it during moderate weather it will only help to spread the larva around.


Whatever deworming information you read, make sure it's up-to-date. Many articles and recommendations are based upon old information and that can lead to wasting money and providing poor parasite control for your horses.

Here are some questions to help you and your vet determine the risk of re-exposure and re-infection for your horse’s particular situation.
1. How old is your horse?
2. Is she turned out or stalled?
3. If turned out is it a dry lot or pasture? How much acreage?
4. Do you pick up feces out of the turnout every 2-3 days?
5. Are other horses in the pasture too? If so do they get dewormed regularly? What are their ages?
6. Do you have extreme weather---summers over 100 degrees for extended periods or winters below 40 degrees for extended periods?



http://www.thehorse.com/Parasites/Parasites1204.pdf (http://www.thehorse.com/Parasites/Parasites1204.pdf)
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=7317#parasites (http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=7317#parasites)

vicklynn
10-18-2008, 09:43 AM
Good post Ryle!! Thanks for the info.

Gypsy Rose
10-18-2008, 11:20 AM
Thanks, Ryle, for posting this! I'm going to read it over a few times- help it stick in the memory banks, lol!

ownedby7horses
10-19-2008, 05:40 AM
Thanks Ryle! I think Im gonna print it out. Great info to know (especially for Cawl). Thanks again.

Arrow
10-19-2008, 05:41 AM
Great info--thanks!

gaited07
10-19-2008, 07:02 AM
Great information! Thank you;)

OwnedByOurHorses
10-19-2008, 07:52 AM
Ryle I was so glad to see your post ....For months my husband and I have trying to explain to friends of our about the importance of clean pastures of manure and sticking to a deworming schedule. I have printed your post in the hopes of having them read it.

JetLagaside
10-19-2008, 08:21 AM
I have to admit, I've been thinking it's time to talk to my vet since I've been hearing daily wormers aren't so effective anymore. In my current boarding barn they are all on the same thing and same schedule as well as the pastures are picked on a regular basis so I know that helps but still always good to bring these things up. Thanks :)

Gypsy Rose
10-19-2008, 09:22 AM
Ryle, this may seem like a dumb questtion, but if a horse has been the only horse on a pasture of 1 1/2 acres for over 15 years, with no other horses introduced during that time, what would be a ballpark deworming schedule for this horse, keeping in mind that she's a senior (29)? Should really get a fecal done, I know- but in the meantime...

Climate is North Central Minnesota.

BTW, didn't get the chance earlier, but glad to see you here on the forum!

Cat
10-19-2008, 09:33 AM
Great post and thanks for the info!

Remali
10-19-2008, 10:21 AM
Excellant info, thank you!!! :)

Ryle
10-19-2008, 03:20 PM
I have to admit, I've been thinking it's time to talk to my vet since I've been hearing daily wormers aren't so effective anymore. In my current boarding barn they are all on the same thing and same schedule as well as the pastures are picked on a regular basis so I know that helps but still always good to bring these things up. Thanks :)

Really, if the pastures are picked regulary it would be a good idea to just start doing fecals on the horses and deworming as necessary. This will help to slow the development of parasite resistance to the drugs by limiting exposure to the drugs to when absolutely necessary. Picking pastures/paddocks every 2-3 days has a huge affect on parasite reinfection rates.

Ryle
10-19-2008, 03:23 PM
Ryle, this may seem like a dumb questtion, but if a horse has been the only horse on a pasture of 1 1/2 acres for over 15 years, with no other horses introduced during that time, what would be a ballpark deworming schedule for this horse, keeping in mind that she's a senior (29)? Should really get a fecal done, I know- but in the meantime...

Climate is North Central Minnesota.

BTW, didn't get the chance earlier, but glad to see you here on the forum!

Well, hopefully you don't have an ascarid issue since you've had no foals on your pasture for 15 years, but it's still possible. Do you pick up feces daily? Is she grazing mostly or on hay and feed mostly?

As a senior she is at more risk for parasite infection because their immunity tends to wain--they can even harbor ascarids.

Gypsy Rose
10-19-2008, 05:50 PM
I try to at least keep her poo away from her feeding areas, and every spring, the whole pasture gets picked clean, I have no motorized tools to help me- only a shovel, rake and wheelbarrow, so I do the best I can.

As for the ascarids- I had to put the pasture in when I moved here- before that, it was woods, brush, and neglected lawn area.

I used to do the old standard deworming regimen of rotating every other time between ivermectin and pyrantel every 8 weeks, then I ended up with a different veterinarian, and was told she may need to be dewormed only 3-4 times a year, and that just using any ivermectin brand would be fine, including moxidectin.

Does this even make sense? None of the vets she's seen in the last 15 years have recommended a fecal. That includes the one I have now- a new practice started in the last few years- he's the most knowledgeable I've seen up here so far, lol!

Ryle
10-20-2008, 08:38 AM
Well, it's possible that your parasite contamination in your pasture is pretty low so I would start doing fecal egg counts every 2-3 months (be sure it's after the egg reappearance period for the last drug used) and deworm as needed based upon test results. And just plan to have 2 set ivermectin/praziquantel or moxidectin/praziquantel dewormings a year--one in spring and one in fall---to treat for bots and tapes.

If you routinely are getting high fecal egg counts back, then I would put the effort in to pick up feces every 2-3 days or deworm based upon egg reappearance periods for a year to drop the contamination load on the pasture.

Gypsy Rose
10-20-2008, 02:11 PM
Is there anything special I should watch her for if I use anything with the praziquantel- as yet, I haven't wormed her for tapes- my bad!

natisha
10-20-2008, 03:06 PM
I've been deworming for 3 years using fecal counts on a random representative horse & the spring/fall dewormings for tapes & bots. All have been clean except a new boarder heavily infested with strongyles who was separated & aggressively treated & is now clean too.
The hard part was convincing the boarders to change. My vet never suggested the new program but was all for it when I brought it up. When asked why vets don't recommend it to their clients she stated that most people just want to keep doing as they have been & are resistant to change.
Good for Ryle for getting the word out

FoxFireEMT
10-20-2008, 07:20 PM
Ryle as always thanks for your posts! Very much imformative!!!

Ryle
10-21-2008, 07:28 AM
Is there anything special I should watch her for if I use anything with the praziquantel- as yet, I haven't wormed her for tapes- my bad!

Generally, no. If they are there in such numbers as to cause an impaction they could just as well do it alive as dead--moreso in fact because they cluster around a small opening in the intestines when they are attached.

Gypsy Rose
10-21-2008, 08:48 AM
Thanks, Ryle- I guess I know what my next deworming drug is going to be, lol!

Miracle Whip
10-21-2008, 05:28 PM
This kind of goes along with what I have always suspected. Too frequent worming is a bad thing. Its the pasture condition and living areas that affect the worm load the most is the way I understand it. One lady I know told me she rarely worms her stallion because he is always in a stall or arena turnout and the stall is cleaned daily.

Ryle
10-22-2008, 06:54 AM
Well, it's not a bad thing in so far as causing problems in the horse but it is for the development of parasite resistance. As your friend says, her horse isn't on turnout in pasture and so not a big exposure risk so frequent deworming is likely not necessary.

HogWild
10-22-2008, 03:11 PM
Ryle,

If I wanted to take a fecal sample in from my two horses, how would I go about getting the samples?......can I just pickup a fresh sample off the field? If I wait till one horse goes and get a sample, how long will this sample be good while I'm waiting on the other horse to go? Can I collect one evening and take the samples in the next day? Any special handling procedures or containers necessary or is a plastic bag ok?

Ryle
10-23-2008, 08:20 AM
The easiest way is to put a ziploc bag over your hand and walk out and pick up a freshly dropped sample. Zip it and then refridgerate until you can take it in to your vet. They can be read up to 2-3 days after collection if refridgerated.

Tens Legacy
10-24-2008, 05:20 AM
Thanks for the information, i've been thinking about changing my worming program.