Old Horse help

[Equine_Woman]

Alright guys. I'm going to ask our vet next time we are there as well but I've been trying to put weight on Mack for what seems like forever now and I need advice!!!

Mack was a rescue and he was REALLY underweight. I haven't worried about my plan for him until now because he seems to have leveled off and I can't get him to put on more weight. I asked the vet at this years annuals what they thought of his weight and how to put more on, they said, "He is at an okay weight." I just kinda hung my mouth open but didn't say anything. Then we went for his dental appointment at the big equine vet and they said the same thing about his weight there. "He is fine."

He hasn't gained any since then I don't think and he hasn't lost any but I really want to start back on the gaining ladder.

Thought I should also mention we think he is 23 years old, he is up to date on all shots, worming, (on rotation) and had his teeth done this spring. They said his teeth looked fine and didn't need much! And he's a Trakehner

He's come a long way. .

What he gets now:
17lbs Safe Choice a day split into two feedings. (that's the most he will eat). Free choice coastal hay. (can't feed alfalfa because he is in with other horses and he doesn't care for alfalfa pellets.) I also give him a fat supplement from T.S.C. but for the life of me my brain doesn't remember what it is called. He also gets B.L. Solution daily for his arthritis.

He gained probably close to 100 lbs since we got him but like I said, he's leveled off now and I'm not happy about it.

So tips, tricks, food changes, all opinions appreciated!!

Here he is from today:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/2917165816_d75800f6ae.jpg

I would love to do what Hunterseat is doing on the other forum and get a chiropractor out but we just don't have the spare money at the moment. We are a one income family and doing the best we can! I can add some more supplements and change feeds for him so if anyone has a better diet that safe choice let me know!!

He also doesn't lay down very often because of his arthritis so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I read somewhere that horses who don't lay down are much harder keepers. He really is a happy boy though so I don't think his quality of life has been bad.

[lovesfortune]

Sorry I can't help you out any... I'm not very informed when it comes to nutrition and hard keepers. Both of mine are tubby! :( Hopefully someone else has some ideas for you though. While I don't think he looks horrible, I agree with you that he needs a bit more weight.... just keep trying!!

[Gypsy Rose]

How do you feel about feeding beet pulp? That may be an option.

Also, you might want to look at getting a good pre/probiotic, or even a digestive enzyme supplemnt. Senior horses digestive systems don't function as well as they did when they were younger, and sometimes need some help.

I'm not a real big fan of grains, even Safe Choice, unless there's no other alternative.

I'm more inclined to lean toward free choice hay, which you're already doing, a good RB or vitamin/mineral supplement, and good digestive support and teeth care.

I'm sure we can find a better,yet cheaper program for your faithful friend- that is if my cat doesn't knock me off this site by climbing all over the keyboard, which he's inclined to do every night, lol!

Good thing wwe have an edit button now, he, he!

[Equine_Woman]

I've done beet pulp before but he would only eat so much and then stop. It's like he has a certain amount of time he will agree to be away from his girls. . .and once that time has passed he won't eat anymore!!!

Thanks so much guys for the support and advice!! It's a frustrating thing trying to get an older horse to gain weight!!! And goodness knows what he's been through before I got him!

[Cat]

My easiest keeper doesn't lay down much, so that has nothing to do with it.

I would have the vet look into stomach ulcers due to the type of feed he is on. If he does have them, treatment can do wonders for their weight because then they can digest all that they get. It may be cheaper to just go ahead and treat for the ulcers (I think its a paste) instead of getting the full exam done - the treatment won't hurt him if he doesn't have ulcers but will do wonders if he does have them.

Also, instead of safechoice I would switch him to an actual senior feed. That tends to be easier on the stomach. Plus if you could feed the concentrated feed in 3 or 4 feedings instead of 2, that will also help with digestion.

Have you tried any probiotics?

[All4Grace]

I've had great succes with Rice Bran, you can get a 50lbs bag for like$15 and it will last you months as you only need to feed a 1/2 cup each feed. We'd just sprinkle it on the grain, with a small amount of water just to help it stick better.
My old TB did well with beat pulp but he too got sick of eating it after a while. The Rice Bran they seem to like. It's what I fed Grace after she lost those 300lbs on our cross country trip and we also fed it to Hope for the first 2 months we had her.
Most feed stores carry it and you once they get to an ideal what you can maintain it by reducing to 1/2 cup a day.
Good Luck!
As For Mack's Arthritis I HIGHLY recommend the Ascend Gel Joint by Farnam, if they still make it. It worked wonders for my old TB and the severly arthritic QH mare I have for a short period of time. :D

eta-I forgot to say, I agree with everyone on the ProBios. it is good stuff!

[MileHighOlli]

I second GR's idea about the probiotic/enzyme support. I know it really helped out my old gal.

Personally, I have had really good luck with Senior Glo. I was using Nutrena Senior for a while and switched to Senior Glo to eliminte out as much sugar as possible. My older mare thrived on it and seemed to prefer the taste. I combined that with a good forage balancer to round her out. I have heard of people using 1 cup of corn or veg oil for a little extra fat content.

The older guys and gals can be so picky and sometimes just a change in food to peak their interest is all that is needed. Mack is lucky to have such a loving friend like you :D

Below is a pic of my 21 yr old about 2 months after starting the senior glo...(lets hope this works)
http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr242/olliwoo/Picture043.jpg

[Gypsy Rose]

My easiest keeper doesn't lay down much, so that has nothing to do with it.

I would have the vet look into stomach ulcers due to the type of feed he is on. If he does have them, treatment can do wonders for their weight because then they can digest all that they get. It may be cheaper to just go ahead and treat for the ulcers (I think its a paste) instead of getting the full exam done - the treatment won't hurt him if he doesn't have ulcers but will do wonders if he does have them.

Also, instead of safechoice I would switch him to an actual senior feed. That tends to be easier on the stomach. Plus if you could feed the concentrated feed in 3 or 4 feedings instead of 2, that will also help with digestion.

Have you tried any probiotics?


Very good points, Cat! The possibility of ulcers definitely should be ruled out before jumping on a digestive enzyme.

Now I KNOW I'm tired- I should have thought of that.

I also agree that if the horse won't eat beet pulp, a senior feed would have to be tried. I'm not a big fan of them, but it's not like there are a lot of RB's out there for a senior horse, though there are a few good multis, of which one of them I use for Gypsy.

[Gypsy Rose]

I second GR's idea about the probiotic/enzyme support. I know it really helped out my old gal.

Personally, I have had really good luck with Senior Glo. I was using Nutrena Senior for a while and switched to Senior Glo to eliminte out as much sugar as possible. My older mare thrived on it and seemed to prefer the taste. I combined that with a good forage balancer to round her out. I have heard of people using 1 cup of corn or veg oil for a little extra fat content.

The older guys and gals can be so picky and sometimes just a change in food to peak their interest is all that is needed. Mack is lucky to have such a loving friend like you :D

Below is a pic of my 21 yr old about 2 months after starting the senior glo...(lets hope this works)
http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr242/olliwoo/Picture043.jpg

I'll have to learn more about the Senior Glo- is that made by Nutrena?

[MileHighOlli]

I'll have to learn more about the Senior Glo- is that made by Nutrena?

It is an ADM product, part of their Alliance nutrition line. Their site is not working for me right now, but if you google 'Alliance Nutrition Senior Glo' it will bring up both their site in the first three hits as well as some other reviews on the product.

Again, it might be worth a try once all other medical issues are ruled out, i.e. ulcers, etc. At least in my research it does seem to be one of the more complete senior feeds out there.

[walkinthewalk]

I agree with you that Mack needs a few more pounds.

I am hoping the Pros said his weight is ok, because it's ok as compared to what the fella must've looked like before you got him:eek:

You are a good mom:)

Some of my thoughts are:

1. Since he was in such bad shape, even though you have wormed him (and maybe you already did this), was he wormed with a PowerPak under the vet's suggestion/guidance?

Sometimes when a horse is down and neglected as bad as Mack must've been, the worms can become encysted inside. The horse then needs a worming program that includes a five-day power pack, but for my part, it is not something to be done without the vet's guidance.

2. Ulcers could be another possibility. Another thing to ask the vet about, plus ask him if it would do harm to start Mack on a GOOD QUALITY probiotic even before testing for ulcers. At his age and with what he's been thru, his digestive system most likely needs help.

3. When the horse in my avatar became outwardly metabolic and went from being an air fern to losing ~80 pounds in six weeks, I had the help of a three equine dieticians to get him gaining weight fast. I was advised to start him on a stabilized, calcium fortified pelleted rice bran because rice bran is 20% fat. I added a pelleted vitamin/mineral supplement to that. Duke's weight stabilized almost before my eyes.

So from my own experience, my suggestion would be the pelleted rice bran and a pelleted vit/min supplement. I prefer pellets over powders because they have a lot more volume and it's easier to eat.

4. I also add several big splashes (out of a sport bottle) of warm canola oil. I prefer canola over corn oil.

Corn oil is high in omega-6 which is alleged to exacerbate inflammation. Duke's arthritis exploded with the EMS and I don't need to be adding to that issue. Canola oil is high in Omega-3.

While both the 3 & 6 should be close in balance, if I am going to go overboard, it is with the Omega-3.

The canola oil will help keep Mack's innards working, give him a nice shine, and hopefully help add some fat to his ribs in a fairly inexpensive way. I buy Wal-Mart's brand with the green label. They have one that is canola mixed with either corn or vegetable oil that I accidentally bought and had to take back.

Mack sure has a sweet sweet face. Hope this helps you some:)

[Equine_Woman]

Thanks everyone!!! I think I'm going to call my vet and get his opinion. He knows me pretty well so he should be happy to give me advice over the phone.

I'm going to look and see if I can find the SeniorGlo in my area. My local feedstores don't have it but I've seen it before so it's SOMEWHERE!!!

If I feed the SeniorGlo do I still add Rice Bran? We've had Mack for over a year and a half so whatever trauma he's been through it's been a while back. He gained steady up to a few months ago. Mack was a former Dressage champ so I can't say that ulcers would surprise me.

Think i'll hit costco up tomorrow too and get some Canola oil. I had him on oil when we first got him so maybe it's time to start it again!

[MileHighOlli]

EW, you should'nt have to add the rice bran since SeniorGlo contains stabilized rice bran but I would check with your vet anyhow just to have him on board.

Good luck with Mr.Mack. He sure looks like a sweetheart!

[APPYT]

I see you are in Tx. See if you can locate a dealer who sells Total Equine (http://www.totalequine.info/Products.html). That is what I Feed my senior, along with some bp and alfalfa pellets for added protein.

[Equine_Woman]

I agree with you that Mack needs a few more pounds.

I am hoping the Pros said his weight is ok, because it's ok as compared to what the fella must've looked like before you got him:eek:

You are a good mom:)



No he was better but not good and looking back at photos he might have dropped just a bit since then but he was no where near "a good weight" in my eyes. Summer has been hard on him I think, but life has been harder.

[Equine_Woman]

I see you are in Tx. See if you can locate a dealer who sells Total Equine (http://www.totalequine.info/Products.html). That is what I Feed my senior, along with some bp and alfalfa pellets for added protein.

No dealers anywhere near me. Thanks though!! The nearest is about an hour away

[Country Girl 43]

EquineWoman, you have an AWESOME chiroprator there in Texas. She travels all over and comes out to AZ. I had never tried a Chiro before and decided to give it a try. This gal helped my Ladybird so much! And she is not expensive! Her name is Cheri...I will try to find her website for you. I know she lives in Red Oak Texas, but travels A LOT!

Also, I just stuck to the basics when putting weight on my horses. Lots of free choice hay, Safe Choice and I give them 1/4 cup corn oil once a day. I cut back on the corn oil during the summer because they are getting fat! But this has helped my horses tremendously, without spending a fortune on tons of supplements.

[Equine_Woman]

I would be very interested in the chiropractor's number or website!!! I'll try looking for her too! Thanks!

[Equine_Woman]

http://bioenergenics.com/contact.htm

Is that her?

[RackinRudy]

I agree with the probiotics/vitamin as well.

Also maybe add some Cocosoya to his diet.
I give/gave Rykin 5 ounces per day since he has come home from Michigan State and lost a ton of weight ... I believe that helped him alot.

Maybe I misunderstood but you give him 17 pounds of grain a day??!!!??
Holy Shmoly! You must be broke! :eek:

I think the weight supplement at TSC is called "Weight Gain".

Also here is a good article on adding weight to horses which may offer some new tips: http://www.horses-and-horse-information.com/articles/0702nogain.shtml

The probiotic/vitamin I use is from The Natural Horse Vet. (http://www.thenaturalvet.net/cgi-bin/genesis.exe/RepsitePage.html?p_get_webid=michiganhorse&p_catid=1&p_prodid=75)

[Happy Horselover]

I would switch him to a senior feed in lieu of the Safe Choice. Made a huge difference in my "old" (22) man when I switched from Safe Choice to Nutrena Senior.

[magayle]

rice bran is great for adding calories without adding the carbs...sounds like your old guy is ready for a complete senior feed tho, instead of adding a ton of stuff on your own...the senior feeds make it much easier to be sure he gets everything he needs..good luck hon

[Equine_Woman]

I could certainly find Senior food. I just worried about adding a complete feed since he already eats hay all day. Seems like a waste to have hay in the feed. . . is there a senior feed that doesn't add hay? Or is my brain thinking wrong?

[Little Bit]

My Arabian stallion was 32 when he passed away. He was completely on Purina Equine Senior for the last 14 years of his life and did wonderful on it. It is easy for old horses to chew and digest.

[Equine_Woman]

My Arabian stallion was 32 when he passed away. He was completely on Purina Equine Senior for the last 14 years of his life and did wonderful on it. It is easy for old horses to chew and digest.

Well that's a wonderful testimonial for it!!!! I would love for my guys to make it to 32!!!! 3 of my 4 horses are 20 and up.

[lovesfortune]

WHere is Peggy Sue?? She knows how to break down everything and give you the basics of what you need.

Just wanted to say that we fostered a 12 yr old Arab mare a while back that was a hard keeper, etc. We started out with free choice hay and a regular sweet feed...but ended up switching her to Purina Senior and free choice. She started picking up weight and looked ALOT better overall. Her coat got nice and shiny. I can post before and after pictures if you want.

[Equine_Woman]

I'd love to see the before and after pics. So you offered Purina Senior Free Choice? or Purina Senior and Free choice hay? I would love to hear what Peggy Sue recommends.

[lovesfortune]

Here is the after:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj14/lovesfortune/pasture010.jpg
She still needed filling out in her hipssome, but she had rear pastern issues and a lot of weight back there wasn't good for her. Our vet was really happy with the results.

Before: I'll keep looking for a better photo of just her.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj14/lovesfortune/100_2296.jpg
She had her winter coat here, but she was very ribby, etc.

ETA: To clarify... we fed her Purina Senior 2x a day and she had free choice hay.

[Equine_Woman]

Awww!!! I love that she isn't ribby!!! That's what I want for Mack. He's a REALLY big horse so it just seems like all the weight he puts on goes somewhere else!!

[lovesfortune]

I forgot to add that we fostered her for 6 months, but she was on the equine senior for about 1-2 months before she went back to the rescue with Reggie.

I was pretty happy with how she looked when she left. She just glowed. (I miss her) :(

[Sundays Man]

Even with all the bones showing, Mack's a good looking boy. I hope you can find something that will work for him. I don't have any advice because I have just the opposite problem. I bought my 17 y/o girl and we honsestly had to ask if she was pregnant. She is the poster child for "easy keeper". I wish I could take some of her weight and give it to Mack. I think they would both be happier. We're working on it, but it's a slow process.

[Equine_Woman]

Thankfully one of my 20 year olds is an easy keeper!!! She just has to smell food and she gains weight!! She's at a great weight right now but back when she was on pasture I thought about getting her a grazing muzzle!!! I always wish she could give some of what she's got to Mack!! I think she's the only reason the neighbors haven't called the humane society out for us! (Well that and my pudgy 5 year old mare)

[Sundays Man]

Thankfully one of my 20 year olds is an easy keeper!!! She just has to smell food and she gains weight!! She's at a great weight right now but back when she was on pasture I thought about getting her a grazing muzzle!!! I always wish she could give some of what she's got to Mack!! I think she's the only reason the neighbors haven't called the humane society out for us! (Well that and my pudgy 5 year old mare)

YUP, a grazing muzzle is what we are going to have to do for Miss Mira it looks like. I think next spring she will be sportin' one. It will have to be a break away and of course be the right color to match her beautiful mane, tail and eyes. lol. How's this for a tail and wide hinney.


http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=195

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

YUP, a grazing muzzle is what we are going to have to do for Miss Mira it looks like. I think next spring she will be sportin' one. It will have to be a break away and of course be the right color to match her beautiful mane, tail and eyes. lol. How's this for a tail and wide hinney.


http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=195

Yep...look where she has her head!!!! Can anyone say "Yummmmmm Fooooood" ?

[Country Girl 43]

http://bioenergenics.com/contact.htm

Is that her?

Sorry...I've been sick and haven't followed alot of posts, but YES that is her! She is REALLY great! She doesn't "crank" on the horses. She is VERY gentle and you will see an improvement right away!

I am very picky about stuff like this. My horses are my babies, so you can rest assure this woman will do good by your old horse! Give her a call, sometimes e-mail is faster.

[Equine_Woman]

Thanks again everyone!! You have been throwing wonderful ideas at me!!! Now to pick which ones to go with!! I think I might try the Purina senior first since it is the most readily available. . Senior Glo is at a feed store about 40 minutes away, My feed store doesn't carry rice bran but Tractor Supply does. But from what I can tell I don't add that to Senior. . is that right? The fat supplement he is on is Omegatin from T.S.C.

I have two horses I think I will switch to senior. Sterling is starting to be a much harder keeper as well.

Also, can I still add probiotics to Senior?

Thanks again everyone.

[Gypsy Rose]

You can definitely still add probiotics to the Senior- usually, there's only enough to help digest the senior feed, but not enough for the hat as well- at least that's the simplest way I can put it, lol!

[lovesfortune]

I don't know about adding anything to the Senior, but definitely keep us updated on how the switch goes! I hope you have good results on it!

[lovesfortune]

Woot! I just emailed Peggy Sue and she said she'll try to join and get online here tonight to give her thoughts.

[Equine_Woman]

Good deal!

[Peggy Sue]

Woot! I just emailed Peggy Sue and she said she'll try to join and get online here tonight to give her thoughts.


Alright already just what I needed another forum LOL

Equine Woman pm me your zip code let me see what you can get and we'll build from there

there is no reason you can't have a horse eating hay on ANY senior feed..even if it is just to keep them busy because they cant' chew it ...

I have to pick up my son and go to store then I will be back to play somemore!!

[Equine_Woman]

Okay! Thanks

[Happy Horselover]

My boy was on Nutrena Senior and hay. Just because it's a complete feed doesn't mean you can't still feed hay.

Woops, Peggy Sue said that too. Well, I second that!

[Gypsy Rose]

Can you get Buckeye feeds in your area? PeggySue was thinking one of them- I think the Gro n' Win- a Ration balancer.

Don't quote me on that one, though- I didn't write it down, lol!

Otherwise, they have a good selection of Senior feeds, too.

http://www.buckeyenutrition.com/equine/

[Equine_Woman]

I can get it but it's over an hour away from me.

[Gypsy Rose]

What feeds are availabe to you that are more convenient?

[PaintedLady]

Itty Bitty made it to 35. (The previous owners were astounded that they stopped to see her and there she was!) She was a Standardbred, and the last several years she got a mix of BP and BOSS topped with Focus Sr. And all the hay she could chow on. She was an amazing girl, and was just like a teenager. I was so shocked when she would lunge right alongside of everyone else!

[Peggy Sue]

Beet pulp well soaked and a ration balancer or vitamin/mineral supplement is one option .. but you said he didn't really like the beet pulp

Let me dig a bit have a few minutes

[Equine_Woman]

What feeds are availabe to you that are more convenient?

The local feedstore sells nutrena, the other one down the road a bit sells purina, I have a Tractor Supply that sells their stuff. .. And I can get the SeniorGlo stuff but it's In a town about 35- 40 minutes from me. (which almost every town is that far from me!!) My little town has just the one feedstore which carries the nutrena stuff, no rice bran or anything cool like that. . (mostly cattle people around here)

I know I"m difficult!! lol. I sometimes wish I lived in a more horse populated area but most of the people around here feed hore and mule or some other something like that.

[Equine_Woman]

Beet pulp well soaked and a ration balancer or vitamin/mineral supplement is one option .. but you said he didn't really like the beet pulp

Let me dig a bit have a few minutes


He will eat the beet pulp but he stops eating period after about 30 minutes generally because his girls have left the area and he can't see them. We only have one separate enclosure for him to eat in. I've tried tying someone up to hang out with him but he still stopped after 30 minutes. He eats pretty slowly so when we added the beet pulp it didn't get eaten.

[Peggy Sue]

http://www.buckeyenutrition.com/cgi-bin/dealer.cgi Candence Ultra is 14% fat and low NSC which means if he does have ulcers it shouldn't bother them

I am still digging

Have you tried the Ultium from Purina?? it is high fat low NSC as well

[Peggy Sue]

http://www.kentequine.com/Results.aspx

Granolene LS or Omegetin both high fat low NSC

Have a dealer right there in your town too

[shynbvs]

if that is a recent picture i am surprised at the vet. I don't know too much about this, but try feeding him as much hay as he will eat. You should also try beat pulp. Again, I don't know much about this. He looks really sweet!

[Equine_Woman]

if that is a recent picture i am surprised at the vet. I don't know too much about this, but try feeding him as much hay as he will eat. You should also try beat pulp. Again, I don't know much about this. He looks really sweet!

Yep that was taken the day I posted. And really I don't feel like it is an acurate photo of him. . he doesn't look nearly that bony in person. . .but it is a photo of him!!

And he is on free choice coastal hay 24 hours a day. I've tried the beat pulp and I can try it again but I think I'm going to switch to Senior although I'm debating the other feeds presented recently. He is a sweet boy!! Ya'll should see him smile!!! Hang on, I'll upload a picture of it!! It's adorable.

[Equine_Woman]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3098/2920381994_f6951465d9.jpg
Mack says thanks for the help everyone!!!

Lol, he is such a goober. Someone loved him once because he will 'count' and he smiles for cookies.

two more!!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/2920383710_f71cffa710.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/2919539253_74319d1357.jpg
My son and 'Mackadoodle' as he calls him!

[Peggy Sue]

Amy if the beet pulp doesn't work you can try alfalfa pellets instead of cubes

or did you say he couldn't hae alfalfa
sorry I am having an off day today been busy so brain is fried a bit

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

EQUINE...Mack is just precious!!!!Love those pictures. His teeth sure look clean. lol

[Gypsy Rose]

Wow Great pics! Love the horse laugh!

[Peggy Sue]

Manna Pro makes a good rice bran supplement that is fortified that I have had some great luck with adding weight as well...