Help with Poop in the Pastures

[cloedoll]

I have three pastures and they aren't huge, but each are big enough for three horses (I only have two) to fit in. I also have two paddocks, I only use them for when Cloe is in season during the summertime (long story, if you want me to explain, let me know ;)) and of course their stalls which they go in everyday, during the day, only in summertime (or if there is a bad storm during any given season, etc. - to put it simple, if they need to go in their stalls, they do). I have always known they always poop in the corners of their pastures, should I be cleaning this up? I clean up their paddocks every time they are in them, of course muck out their stalls everyday (when they use them), but what about the pastures? I have mucked out the pastures before, but holy work! I am a worker girl, never take breaks, don't dilly dally and it takes me a day per pasture! Should I be mucking out their pastures? What should I do? I feel embarrassed for asking, lol. :o

[Arrow]

I don't think you need to clean them--you might want to go over them with a...thing that rakes them over, looks like chain link fence...do you know what I mean? You might want to drag them, I think is what I mean, to break up piles and spread it around.

[cloedoll]

If you could find a picture that would be helpful, I may know computers, but am not too familiar with farm equipment, or any equipment really. :o I think I've heard of a dragger (or something like that) before, though, just don't know what it looks like. :o

[Ryle]

If you want to minimize parasites, pick up feces at least every 2-3 days. Harrowing or dragging pastures is a bad idea if you won't be able to move the horses out for a month or more because all it will do is spread the larva around the pasture more and thus create more opportunity for exposure. Dragging should also be done in the hottest part of the year because it will help dry out the larva and help them to die off more quickly.

[Arrow]

I'll let someone who actually uses one handle that!:D Someone will come along...:whistle:

[cloedoll]

If you want to minimize parasites, pick up feces at least every 2-3 days.

That will take a few hours for me every few days, though. Does everyone do this? :huh:

[Arrow]

If you want to minimize parasites, pick up feces at least every 2-3 days. Harrowing or dragging pastures is a bad idea if you won't be able to move the horses out for a month or more because all it will do is spread the larva around the pasture more and thus create more opportunity for exposure. Dragging should also be done in the hottest part of the year because it will help dry out the larva and help them to die off more quickly.

Hmmmm...I think that you're probably right! But I board, and I don't make the rules...Our horses are wormed year round, though.

[Ryle]

Nope, not everyone does this---it really depends on the amount of pasture/paddock and the number of horses generally. People who have small paddocks tend to pick up feces much more frequently than those who have large pastures which allow the horses to graze away from feces.

[luv2show]

At our barn they're picked weekly... i board though so I don't have to do it lol. Oh yes, and ALL of the horses are UTD on everything

[cloedoll]

Well now I dunno what to do...like I said, two horses, UTD on everything, but not huge pastures...with winter coming, too, how can I get out there and muck out their pastures when the poop is frozen? Also, it's going to be frustrating mucking out pastures for hours a few times a week..

[TacheteTreasures]

Because our paddock is small, my mom cleans in the morning when she feeds, and I clean at night when I feed. If you keeep up with it you can get it done pretty quickly

[iloveponcho]

at mine its never done...i wish it was but we board with my moms best friend and she doesn't think it should ever have to be done and she's the kind of person who's like "you do what i say, when i say, and how i say"

[cloedoll]

Because our paddock is small, my mom cleans in the morning when she feeds, and I clean at night when I feed. If you keeep up with it you can get it done pretty quicklyThe pastures are much than a paddock would be, though. I do clean the paddocks already. (:

[Arrow]

Do you know anyone who might have the equipment?

[menagerie]

Ryle I have a question about parasites in poo.... We have started using probiotics with our horses which helps the manure to break down faster. Can you explain how the larva come to be in the manure in the first place? And will the faster break down help to discourage larva growth?

[cloedoll]

Do you know anyone who might have the equipment?

No. :(

[menagerie]

Didn't mean to hijack the thread but thought it was related. Hope thats ok!

[cloedoll]

It's fine menagerie! :)

[OwnedByOurHorses]

http://www.buyfarmstuff.com/products-ranch/loy/harrow.htm

here is a link to a drag harrow it is what we use to break up and spread the manure ...It is best to do this on extreme hot days to help with the process of drying the manure out and killing the worms.....Yet we have used it during the winter months though we do move the horses off the pasture for a few weeks...

[WashingtonBay]

This is all my opinion. We all know it would be best if pastures were picked every day, but honestly, I don't know who has time to really do that. I know I don't. If you pick it, then what? You have a huge pile to get rid of. I spread all my horse poo in the pastures.

I drag it a few times a year when it looks like it needs it and spread it whenever I mow the pasture, and I call that good. If the horses are wormed regularly, as I'm sure yours are, and there aren't new horses coming in all the time, I don't see how there is a re-infestation issue. If you wonder what their wormload is, take a fecal sample to the vet.

Honestly, life's short and there's enough tasks that need done as it is, without picking the pasture every few days. When I have paying customers and perhaps people to help out, we'll see. Not now.

I made my drag out of pallets and pull it behind my truck. It's real redneck and it works pretty well!

[Hill]

I absolutely ADORE that pic WB! Makes me giggle everytime! Though I did try it and it was VERY efficient! This last month our wonderful neighbor brought over his mini tractor and turned the leaves and poo into the sand in an effort to make something closely resembling fertile soil!

[Cat]

I'm with WB - I don't have the time to go out and pick the pastures. We drag and spread and worm regularly. Any new horse coming in is kept away from the others and wormed really good before introductions.

When we drag we borrow a 4-wheeler and use a section of chain-linked fence connected with chains to drag. It was a panel intended for one of those dog kennels - got it at Lowes. This is what my vet suggested our first year out here - we were new to horse ownership and had no idea what to do with all the poo in the pasture. He said this is what he does for his own pastures and so we have done it since as well.

[WashingtonBay]

It works for now! :)

I don't know why real harrows are so expensive. I'd love to have one but the price always sets back. Not to mention the harrow itself is something of a hazard no matter where you store it. They aren't that easy to move around. I'd like to have the section of chain link fence... that would certainly work too.

[magayle]

i agree with washingtonbay.....no more poop piles for me...i drag their huge sand dry lot/paddock just about every day...their grazing areas i only mow the poop in corners to the outside a couple times during the summer....in the winter their only on the huge dry lot and i still drag that....the drag keeps the snow down for easier walkin'...i love using the drag with my truck...keeps everything all cleaned up...my most important piece of equipment

[PaintedHearts]

I do the same as WB. I saw her picture before and said "A pallet, we have one of those." We pull it with our little riding mower. Works great. Makes it look much better. Pallets are cheap or even free at times. Just need something to pull it with.

[WashingtonBay]

Oh dear... I've started a really tacky trend :D

[PaintedHearts]

And you love it! ;)

[WashingtonBay]

It ain't much of a legacy, but it's mine :)

[cloedoll]

Lol, it's a very nice! I appreciate all of the posts! ^_^

[WashingtonBay]

Maybe you could teach your pony to pull the pallets around... clean up after herself. :)

[Arrow]

Either that, or the owls...

[Arrow]

Sort of like...you know...'possum contingencies...:D

[cloedoll]

Lol @ Arrow - yes, those stinkin' owls...

Maybe you could teach your pony to pull the pallets around... clean up after herself. :) That'd be some serious skill! Good thing is, in the wintertime they normally are in the barn and poop in there and I clean that up twice a day...heh. I think I'm going to leave the poop be for now and come summertime get me a redneck harrow (is that what it is called?) and spread it.

[missdixie]

I'd say drag it to spread it around if you can, that will also help fertilize grass : )

[KittySawrus]

At the RDA we usually do a proper big poo pick in summer - when the horses are in during the day and the most volunteers are up at the yard. It usually takes us 2 days, bearing in mind that's 3 hours per day, and there are three fields to cover, in total hosting 31 horses. That's with about 8 vollies a day.
Otherwise, we usually go for it once a month spring to early autumn, then autumn through winter not so much - not so many horses are out for so long. Whilst we're out we also pull up the ragwort :D

Depending on how pooey they are, I would try to have a poo pick day every 2 weeks :S where you can get out the worst of the muck. If you leave poo too long it can kill the grass and reduce the grazing for the horses.

[Stellaluna]

I'm so glad you asked about this chloedoll. I have about three acres of pasture for our horses that are divided into two pastures so I can rotate them during the summer.

They've always been good about pooping in one or two designated areas of each pasture and I would go out a couple of times a week and pick it all up. Of course, they don't eat the grass, though, in the areas they poop and I always hear about how others spread their manure in the pastures or drag the areas with poop. So does breaking it up like has been mentioned make a difference or will they still not graze those areas?

[Country Girl 43]

We don't pick up the pasture either. We use a drag on it. I also go around my turnouts and spread DE on all the piles. Helps to kills the larvae and the flies. It's safe for the horses too and not expensive.

I just make sure I clean their hooves everyday if they are walking through piles alot. Of course, our piles dry up really fast in our heat. I know you take care of your babies, so as long as they are not standing in poop all day and kept up in their worming schedules you should be fine.

[WashingtonBay]

Of course, they don't eat the grass, though, in the areas they poop and I always hear about how others spread their manure in the pastures or drag the areas with poop. So does breaking it up like has been mentioned make a difference or will they still not graze those areas?

If you use some kind of harrow, redneck or otherwise, to drag it, you're not really spreading it very far. Not like using a real manure spreader machine that spreads it everywhere. You're just breaking it up and smoothing it out so it will break down faster and not leave the piles there deep, which will eventually kill the grass and turn it to mud and muck.

They still don't usually choose to graze areas that are the bathroom.

[Peggy Sue]

I mow like this http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/1/5/3/7/4/090107003_thumb.jpg (http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/showimage.php?i=128543&c=)

[WashingtonBay]

Nice! :)

[Ryle]

The problem with the attitude of "just spread it and deworm regularly" is that we are very very quickly running out of chemicals that are effective at removing parasites (most especially strongyles) from our horses.

Fenbendazole (and other benzimendazoles) --HIGH INCIDENCE OF RESISTANCT STRONGYLES greater than 90% of areas tested have strongyles that are resistant to the drug
Pyrantel--MODERATE INCIDENCE OF RESISTANT STRONGYLES more than 40% of areas tested have strongyles resistant to this drug
Ivermectin--Low incidence of resistant strongyles/Moderate incidence of resistant ascarids We are seeing our first studies showing strongyles that are resistant to ivermecin, there have been farms showing ivermectin resistant ascarids for several years now
Moxidectin--No resistance at this point, but it is in the same family as ivermectin so resistance may develope more quickly because of frequent exposure to a very similar drug; moxidectin can also not be used in foals under 6 months of age or horses that are sick, seriously underweight, etc
Praziquantel --ONLY effective against tapeworms

And we are not looking at new deworming products hitting the market anytime soon. The more frequently we use the drugs we have, the quicker resistance will develope thus the recommendation to deworm based upon fecal egg counts rather than just arbitrarily deworming every horse.

As far as what faster breaking up of feces does, it allows the larva to be exposed to the humidity/lack thereof, temperature and sunlight. In situations where the weather is extremely dry and hot, this helps to expose the larva to conditions that will cause it to die more quickly-but it's in no way immediate death. In conditions where the temperatures are moderate and the air is most, it doesn't do alot to lower parasite contamination---the environmental conditions must be very hot and dry to speed larval death.

[menagerie]

As far as what faster breaking up of feces does, it allows the larva to be exposed to the humidity/lack thereof, temperature and sunlight. In situations where the weather is extremely dry and hot, this helps to expose the larva to conditions that will cause it to die more quickly-but it's in no way immediate death. In conditions where the temperatures are moderate and the air is most, it doesn't do alot to lower parasite contamination---the environmental conditions must be very hot and dry to speed larval death.

Can I assume that if I can take my horses off a dragged pasture for a given amount of time I would not have as much of an issue with re-infestation? And if so how long would you suggest to keep them off for a wide range of weather conditions?

[cloedoll]

I'm trying to think of options. I was thinking about, what if I made my current main pasture smaller (still having it connect to the barn) and I could pick that up way more frequently. As for the rest of the pastures, I can connect them into one big pasture and that can be their grazing pasture during the summertime (and I'll pick up the poop daily in the summer, after they're done grazing). My question is, how many of you rotate pastures? After one winter, won't my main pasture be totally trashed?...hmm, so confusing!

[LittleRedMare]

I generally do two big poo pick-ups a year, one in the spring and one in the fall. My horses are very good about using one corner of the pasture as their 'toilet'. Most of what I pick up gets dumped into a big pile that gets depleted over the summer as my family takes it to fertilize their gardens.

[IrisGreen]

I'm glad I found this thread. I don't have a pasture. Muffins pen is a dry lot. I used to pick up his poo once a day and keep it nice and tidy. But, then I started to leave the poo out there because the dirt is so hard and compact that I wanted the dry manure to help soften it up.

Well, He always goes in the one spot in the back. I have been out there and walked over it and it's dry. I didn't think anything about it with are heat and how dry the lot is.

He recently got thrush and I just couldn't figure out how he could get thrush on a dry lot? So, I went out there today and figured I would start shoveling that area and get some of the manure out of there before winter comes.

I was SHOCKED!!! That whole area is dry on top but once you start to shovel it's completely saturated underneath a few inches!! I thought it was dry but in that one section he always goes in it looks dry but it's not! So, I have to shovel down to the hard dirt and it's like shoveling wet sand it's so thick, wet and even black as you get down to the lower layers. The ground is soaked underneath and nothing is drying out. It's just absorbing all the pee and holding it in then Muffin pees on the same spot over and over and it never drys out. I had no idea it was like that. When you look at the back of his pen you can see the area but it's not built up or a big pile or anything. It's just an area that has dry manure spread around. It's a ses pool under the top layer!! Even when I walk on it it seems dry but when Muffin walks over it I'm sure he sinks in and that's how he got that nasty stuff in his hooves.

I tried to get it shoveled out but it's just killing my back how heavy this stuff is all wet and thick. I finally gave up and called a guy with a mini CAT Bull dozer to come out tonight and scrap the whole top layer off that area for me to expose the ground so it can dry out. My dirt has a lot of clay in it and being covered in a layer of manure just blocked the sun from drying it out. The area is only maybe 10x10 in the back corner but it sure is a ses pool and wet about 6 inches or more deep. I am willing to pay the guy $100 bucks to get that muck out of there so the ground can dry. What a mess and I had no idea it was holding moisture like that.

I'm going to start mucking out his pen once a day like I used too. I never had that problem with stuff not drying out but I have never let it make a top layer in an area so I had no idea it could get like that underneath, saturated in pee and growing bacteria. grrr

So, if they have a favorite spot to go I would start mucking it up or spreading it so it won't get this bad. Muffin could have started going in a different area but he didn't mind walking in it so he just kept going in the same nasty area and it's my fault for not keeping it up so it wouldn't get that saturated.

I'm going to have the guy take off at least 6 inches deep to get most of the wet layer off including the saturated ground. Then onces it's drys I will have him come back and disc to level out the pen again. It's level now even with the manure but once he gets to scraping he is going to have to take dig out that area to get to better ground.... what a mess.

I vote for muck it out or spread it. Don't think it's fine because you walk on it and it seems dry. It's not underneath and only going to get worse.

[menagerie]

Cloe we have a relief pasture for the boys, sort of, we are in the process of letting it regrow some after my husband tilled it to oblivion but its doing well enough now that we could leave them on it for several days. Plus we'll be planting rye in all the pastures soon (hopefully this weekend!) so that will help. We have a small strip of land in front that we plan to fence in to have a relief area for the girls as well.

I hope Ryle tells us how long to keep them off after dragging the pasture. I've been working at trying to make everything as healthy for them as possible and hate the thought of doing something I think is for their good and finding out its not!:(

Iris I know what you mean about the yucky stuff under the top of the poo piles. I've had to clean out stalls that were in terrible shape and even after not having horses in them for a loooong time it was still icky under there. Scary! (no they weren't my stalls! I couldn't stand to keep mine that way.)

[cloedoll]

Well everybody, I spent all day mucking the dang pastures - whew. Two down, one to go, luckily the last one isn't too bad. Anyways, I closed off the second pasture and now they are just in the one. They tend to poop in the corners (especially this one) and I'm going to muck it once a day and see how it goes. I was curious, for that one corner it's small and flat - is there any rocks, gravel, bedding, footing or ANYTHING I can put down in that area to encourage them to use the bathroom in that general area? That would make it easier on me, I think, but just curious! Thanks guys for all the replies!

[WashingtonBay]

I've had some success getting them to STOP pooping in a particular spot by putting their food or water there.

I haven't had real good luck teaching them were TO go.

[cloedoll]

Yours seem to be the opposite of mine, they seem to poop where they eat (meaning my horses)! Lmbo. I always feed them in the barn, though because they waste their food if not, heh.

[WashingtonBay]

The problem with the attitude of "just spread it and deworm regularly" is that we are very very quickly running out of chemicals that are effective at removing parasites (most especially strongyles) from our horses.

But this whole management plan assumes the horses are infected with worms all the time. I think my horses are fairly worm free. If we're doing our job on the worming, and it's a fairly closed herd, it's just a poop problem, not a worm problem. That's what I mean when I say "just spread it and deworm regularly". To keep them from having worms in the first place, not because I think the spreading of the poop is causing any infestation.

I think I'll run a fecal up to the vet this week. I've got some Quest sitting here, just waiting for a good time to give it.

[cloedoll]

Should I have included that originally? It's just my two horses, nobody is leaving and nobody new is coming. Lol. :D

[WashingtonBay]

Yours seem to be the opposite of mine, they seem to poop where they eat (meaning my horses)! Lmbo. I always feed them in the barn, though because they waste their food if not, heh.

Really? What pigs! Heh... mine usually don't poop where they eat, so I will sometimes use their food or water to get them to go somewhere else.

They love to poop right at the front corner of the paddock by my front gate. From their perspective, it makes sense, it's the edge of their world, an out of the way spot. From my perspective, it's the first thing people see when they drive up. :doh: So I moved the water buckets out there all summer, and they moved the poop spot back a bit. Mostly.

[cloedoll]

Really? What pigs! Heh... mine usually don't poop where they eat, so I will sometimes use their food or water to get them to go somewhere else.

They love to poop right at the front corner of the paddock by my front gate. From their perspective, it makes sense, it's the edge of their world, an out of the way spot. From my perspective, it's the first thing people see when they drive up. :doh: So I moved the water buckets out there all summer, and they moved the poop spot back a bit. Mostly.

Yep! Pigs they are, bwahaha.

That's a smart thing you did! I'm sure I will figure something out, hmm...think, think, think.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, for winter, I've moved the water back to near the barn, so we don't have to stretch so much hose, and they don't have to walk so far to drink. So they'll revert back, I'm sure.

I just hope the photographers from "Better Horsekeeping Magazine" don't choose now to come for a visit. :rolleyes:

[cloedoll]

Lol, I'll cross my fingers for you. ;)

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

OMG. I don't think I could ever pick up the poop in the pasture. It is enough just to keep the small pasture/paddock area cleaned on a daily baises.

I do think we will probably drag it in the summer tho.

[Ryle]

Can I assume that if I can take my horses off a dragged pasture for a given amount of time I would not have as much of an issue with re-infestation? And if so how long would you suggest to keep them off for a wide range of weather conditions?

If you drag in very hot/dry weather you would need to take them off the pasture for at least a month. In moderate temperatures, you are talking about removing them for more than 6 months.

If you drag a pasture and spread manure, you are spreading around these larva and also giving your horses LESS clean area to graze unless the temp/humidity are extreme. So while it may LOOK cleaner, it's not cleaner as far as what your horse is picking up off the ground. And since strongyle larva actually climb up on the blades of grass to increase their chances of being eaten, by spreading feces with a horse on the pasture you are getting more infective larva spread out to more patches of grass to be ingested.

[cloedoll]

Hey Ryle, this may seem like a dumb question, but you are saying hot/dry weather is going to help kill the larva (I am sorry if this is the wrong term, I'm not too good with proper terms :o) - what about frost? Does that kill anything off (I think it kills off bots, right?), but anything else?