Crystal's 4th ride

[Petra]

Before I say anything else, I'd like to ask, please be nice. I know she is still young. I don't lounge her, run her, or do anything that would be too hard. This is more desensitizing than riding really. I don't stay on her more than 10 minutes. I work on some basic stuff and I plan to go very slow.
She is high-spirited and since I know nothing about training horses I want her to be completely comfortable before I'll start any faster gaits.
Anyways, here is a short video. I'm very proud of her so I just wanted to share.
However if you see anything I do wrong I'm open to any critique or advice.
Thanks! ;)
YouTube - Crystal's training

[JackieB]

Very nice, Petra. I think you just have a way with animals that helps overcome a lack of formal training

One thing I did notice, and it is important. I was taught to never mount a horse that is tied to a post. I noticed that you had to ask Crystal to hold on for a second (after you were on her back) while you released the rope going from her halter to the fence. If a horse panics for any reason (super-loud noise, bee sting, whatever) and feels itself physically restrained, it's almost certain to have a violent "flight reaction" that will lead to a bad wreck.

[Jump The Moon]

Lovely video :D You look good with her :D
I second what JackieB said about mounting whilst tied up, especially for a young horse who isn't as experienced with these things :DBut it looks like a good job to me :D

[WashingtonBay]

You're both doing really well. :)

[Petra]

Thanks JackieB,
Don't worry. She would have untied it if she pulled on it, wouldn't even have to pull very hard. You can't really see it on a video - I only tied it so she thinks she is tied. I just couldn't reach the fence any more, that's why I unhooked it from the halter instead.

[Petra]

Thank you everyone! :)

[Gliderider]

Looks like you are doing a good job with her..

[valleyrider]

She looks great. Keep up the good work with her. What ever you are doing seems to be working.

[Piper522]

OK....4th ride and you are BAREBACK!!! You must be like the horse whisperer!:) She really seems to respond to you. I look forward to seeing more of her progress!

[cheval]

Looks good so far. Do you have access to a trainer? It might be a good idea to hook up with one.

[Petra]

Thanks everyone! :)

Looks good so far. Do you have access to a trainer? It might be a good idea to hook up with one.

I'm sure I could find a trainer if I wanted to. To be honest I don't plan on showing my horses or doing any particular discipline. All I want them for is trail riding. I enjoy so much working with my horses I'd prefer do it myself if I can. I am not a people person, having to work with someone else would take all the fun out of it. Sure I would consider a trainer if I hit the wall.
For now I really prefer to ask for an advice here.

BTW JackieB - I didn't tie her tonight at all. Just asked her to stay still and she did!
Thanks again for your advice! ;)

Crystal learned to back up tonight. Only took her couple of minutes to figure out what I want. She only makes two or three steps at a time for now. I'll try to work on not stopping until I ask. Not sure how much practice it will take, but we have time.

[WashingtonBay]

99% of the time I'd agree with Cheval.... I'm a 'do it by the book' kind of gal, myself. Green owners and green horses are a bad mix. Any book will say so.

But you seem to have something that's working for you, and you're one of the few I'd say that about.

So far, so good! It just so often doesn't go this way.... and it won't be quite fair if you can train all these horses and never get dumped on your butt. :)

[JackieB]

BTW JackieB - I didn't tie her tonight at all. Just asked her to stay still and she did!
Thanks again for your advice! ;)


You're welcome. I saw earlier that you didn't have her tied hard in the video as well.

You're an interesting person, Petra. You do appear to have the abilty to understand and work with horses even without formal training. We're impressed.

[Petra]

99% of the time I'd agree with Cheval.... I'm a 'do it by the book' kind of gal, myself. Green owners and green horses are a bad mix. Any book will say so.

But you seem to have something that's working for you, and you're one of the few I'd say that about.

So far, so good! It just so often doesn't go this way.... and it won't be quite fair if you can train all these horses and never get dumped on your butt. :)


Lol you are funny WB. I'm sure it's coming. It happens to everyone.
It's not all smooth. Training goes well, it's when I least expect it I get hurt!
Did I tell you I was leading my silly Bullet, she got spooked, jumped up and down...not a bad spook - just enough to land on my little toe. Today I was trying to put this mosquito repellent thing on Crystal's neck. (The garlic works great for ticks, but does nothing for mosquitoes.)
Crystal thought it is going to eat her alive; again not a bad spook, but she managed to step on my broken toe! I felt sick to my stomach - man that was some bad pain.:doh:

Thanks for the compliments everyone! It means a lot to me.

[Vacker Hast]

You two look great together and Crystal is responsive and calm so you are doing a very nice job with her. Your bond together and her trust in you is the key ingredients for her training and you have established that already so it's a great start.

Keep us informed of how you two are coming along it's fun to hear about the accomplishments and great to get support or other opinions when there is a setback (hopefully no setbacks) you're doing something right that's for sure, very nice to see.

Stacy

[Gypsy Rose]

Petra, the way you're training Crystal reminds me so much how I trained Gypsy. I was able to take lessons the first summer I was riding her, but only about once a month, lol! After my parents moved out of state that winter, and they sold the farm, it was hit and miss, lol!

I, too, started training bareback, and for the most part had minimal help.

The only thing I see that you could do differently that might make things easier for you and Crstal, since everyone else covered the tying issue, is your hand position with the reins. I do realize why you're still using a rein on each side at this point, believe me! It's more your hand position itself.

Rather than using your hands in a driving position, you could start using the normal English rein position, though keeping a rein on either side. You will be able to give much more subtle aids, especially for stopping at this point, and it will help prevent any accidental jerking on Crystal's mouth.

Let me see if I can pull up some examples of the rein aids for you, and I'm sure you'll know exactly what I mean.

Other than that, at this point, I wouldn't change a thing about what you are doing. I wish more people trained their horses the way you are doing!

[Gypsy Rose]

Good written explanation- still looking for pics. I know I've seen them somewhere, lol!

http://www.horse-sense.org/archives/20030607161405.php

[Gypsy Rose]

Basic idea- I know I've seen regular illustrations somewhere!
http://www.equisearch.com/horses_riding_training/english/hunter_jumper/julyhunt2296/

page 59- explanation of the different rein aids- still no illustrations-aaaargh!
http://books.google.com/books?id=UBWEOQwALcMC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=Horses-+rein+aids-direct+rein&source=bl&ots=JbeNredNVC&sig=DDXs1-yVAYU1gBIr_hGuh45fOtc&hl=en&ei=dq8aSobgGYW0NOi_5J4P&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA59,M1

[Gypsy Rose]

Good article based on basic training- shows how the reins are held, and also shows direct and indirect reining.
http://www.naturalhorsesupply.com/reins.shtml

[Vibe]

You're an interesting person, Petra. You do appear to have the abilty to understand and work with horses even without formal training. We're impressed.

Ditto! I think you are an amazing person. You have a way with animals that only very few people have.

[Petra]

You two look great together and Crystal is responsive and calm so you are doing a very nice job with her. Your bond together and her trust in you is the key ingredients for her training and you have established that already so it's a great start.

Keep us informed of how you two are coming along it's fun to hear about the accomplishments and great to get support or other opinions when there is a setback (hopefully no setbacks) you're doing something right that's for sure, very nice to see.

Stacy

Thank you Stacy.

I was thinking the same thing - I have an advantage to a trainer because the horse trusts me and knows me as much as I know her. She listens because she wants to please me not because she has to.

She is not this nice with anyone else - my husband cannot even lead her on the ground, she simply won't walk with him. It's strange, but she turns in to a complete butthead - she'd try to head-butt him and makes circles around instead of walking. I'll take her and she is the calmest sweetest horse.
I cannot quite imagine sending her to a trainer, most trainers are not as gentle as Nate. I know they wouldn't put up with it.

She also understands my voice commands and I'm sure that is an advantage also.
When I ask for something new from her back I can see she tries to relate it to what she learned on the ground.
I am positive I could never do this with a horse I don't know.
I am also very lucky with her. She can pay attention more than my other horses. It's not something I do - she is just that kind of horse.
Trigger gets distracted - he pays attention to his surroundings and has his own mind. Crystal has the ability to forget about the entire world once we start working. She pays attention only to me and I love it so much about her. So far we didn't get to the point where I would ask her something and she would try to do her own thing.
Trigger is so much different; he always tries to pull something on me and hopes he'd get away with it. If we start learning something new he spends so much time backing up just because I have to correct him every time. Eventually he learns he is not getting anywhere and listens.
I did learn how very different every horse is.
That's why I was surprised some people were trying to compare Muffin to what other horses know after that much training.
I think it's way more important to forget there are other horses out there and pay attention to what works for the horse that is being trained.
I think I have a little advantage in that area too - I don't know what to expect. I have sat on a trained horse when I was a kid, but I really don't remember what was it like. So really I don't know what is it like to ride broke horse. I have no expectations; therefore I can never be frustrated or disappointed. :)

Honestly I think now that you have Muffin home you may be progressing so much faster just because he will be more comfortable.

Lol, yes I'll be posting updates on Crystal. It's hard not to. I don't really have anyone else to talk to about my horses. I like this forum so much.

[Petra]

Good article based on basic training- shows how the reins are held, and also shows direct and indirect reining.
http://www.naturalhorsesupply.com/reins.shtml


Thank you so much! Someone already tried to explain to me how to hold reins and I think I got it the other way around. It was still much better than how I held them before, because I stopped dropping them all the time. The way I held them was the exact opposite the rein was coming in where it was supposed to come out (hope that makes sense).
The picture helped a lot. Thanks again - I'll try it this way. ;)

[cheval]

I think having a couple of lessons would help with the basic stuff like the reins and indirect/direct etc., that's why I mentioned it. I wanted to do it all myself too and I did, but I also had some lessons which was great because it helped through some of the spots where I got stuck. Getting a trainer doesn't mean you can't do it yourself and it's a benefit to you and the horse so thing will go smoothly.

[IrisGreen]

I think your doing great!!! Nice and calm and praising when she does what you ask. I would spend alot of time in that round pen with her and go through all the gaits before taking her out to a bigger area. I think that's where we might have jumped the gun with Muffin. He was doing so well in the round pen, Nate started riding him in the arena and it was just too big and too much of a distraction to Muffin. Muffin needed more time in the round pen at trot and then canter before venturing out to a bigger area.

I think if we had kept him in a smaller area when he decided to try to get his way it would have turned out better and he wouldn't have panicked like he did in the big arena.

So, that's my advise to you :) If everything is going smoothly, still take all the time you need in a smaller area to build the horses confidence and work out any kinks or attitude adjustments before riding in a bigger open area that might be overwhelming for the horse.

I think your doing fantastic! Keep up the good work and enjoy Crystal and Your daily accomplishments :)

[Petra]

I think having a couple of lessons would help with the basic stuff like the reins and indirect/direct etc., that's why I mentioned it. I wanted to do it all myself too and I did, but I also had some lessons which was great because it helped through some of the spots where I got stuck. Getting a trainer doesn't mean you can't do it yourself and it's a benefit to you and the horse so thing will go smoothly.

Cheval: I really do appreciate your advice. You are making a lot of sense and I know you are right.
I follow most of the advice I get here and it always helps. However I am as antisocial as it gets. I am aware how much easier it would be if someone would be there to tell me what I'm doing wrong.
In person I am nothing like what I am online. There are only very few people out there I feel comfortable around.
Even if I decided to follow your advice I know exactly what would happen - it would always be..."not today; I'll do it tomorrow" thing. And year later I would still be "planning" to get a trainer.
That is just me. I may pick the harder road, but at the end I believe I can manage.
If there was a well being of my horse involved or if I would loose control over her it would be a completely different issue. In a situation like that horse comes first. That's why I said if I hit a wall I'd get help.
For now I really prefer to make my videos and ask here what I do wrong. I don't ever get offended when someone criticizes me. No matter how direct it may get. I'm not a little kid.
I appreciate very much any kind of advice I can get.
So thank you again. :)

IG: Thanks for the advice. You know I was actually thinking that. That's why I started working with her a little bit at a time. I mentioned it in your diary thread that even though I'm sorry for Muffin's set back it helped me to see what I could deal with.
I think you are right it was little too much too soon for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Crystal reacted the same.
So your advice is exactly what I am planning on. Go really slow and at her pace until she is completely comfortable with me. She is still growing and growing quite fast. I don't want to do any riding for another year. My plan is not to take her out of the round pen until she is 3. I really don't want to risk set back like Muffin had, because I don't have the experience like Nate has. I wouldn't be able to handle that kind of situation. I will not even ask for trot until she is perfect with all the commands walking. I have plenty of time. I enjoy every second with her; I don’t care what we do. I think she feels the same way.
She sure is not ready for any fast gaits. She still acts like a baby. If we run and I start running really fast she thinks it’s time to play and wants to start kicking and bucking. Of course I stop her immediately. She needs to grow up though and learn that fast doesn’t equal play.

I enjoy taking her on the road for our walks/jogs. I get my exercise and she learns to respond to me even away from home. I don't want her to be barn sour.
There is still so much we can practice on the ground. It sure makes her riding easier.

Anyways I hope you continue with Muffin's diary even while he is at home. I really am interested in his progress and it does help me too. :)

GazettE: Thank you! :)

[Gypsy Rose]

Thank you so much! Someone already tried to explain to me how to hold reins and I think I got it the other way around. It was still much better than how I held them before, because I stopped dropping them all the time. The way I held them was the exact opposite the rein was coming in where it was supposed to come out (hope that makes sense).
The picture helped a lot. Thanks again - I'll try it this way. ;)

Made sense to me! Let me know how it works. Eventually, you'll be able to have the ends of the reins only on one side, but for right now, you don't want to risk giving conflicting signals- which from the way you've been riding, you already had figured out, lol!

[Tiz]

If Crystal gets the notion to drop her head and buck a bit, can you stay on her, and ride whatever comes up?

[Petra]

If Crystal gets the notion to drop her head and buck a bit, can you stay on her, and ride whatever comes up?

Lol, I'll tell you when it happens...so far she has no intentions to buck.

I'm not sure why are you asking the question...
Even a horse broke to ride may get spooked and buck.
Can you tell if you can ride through bucking? If I would manage to balance myself through the bucking is hard to tell. Depends how severe the bucking would be I guess.

[oursarge]

Petra, you're doing great. Any horse can spook or buck at any time, even the most gentle and it always happens when you don't expect it. If it happens to you I know you'll get right back on and keep going. Chances are you won't even blink an eye about getting back on and you'll be able to figure out what happened.

My Sarge is pretty laid back and one day the little brat decided to buck just because he could. I'm not a great rider but I rode out the buck and I was so proud. My trainer friend was there and she was proud then Sarge tripped and I rolled off!!!!! I'm not sure what tripped him but it was quite a big trip and it was like slow motion me rolling off! I only fell a few feet [He's small and when he tripped he went down low on that one side so it wasn't a big fall] but landed on my head! Everyone falls, it's not fun but it happens. When I fell off of my Dommie I broke a couple fingers. I just lost my balance and thankfully I didn't drown in the water tub since I hit that on the way down, I fell between the tub and the barn! I could just see that in the local paper "Clumsy girl falls off horse and drowns in his water tub". So stupid I just fell off and I don't know why, he did nothing wrong I just rolled off. He was looking at me like "Why are you down there?" Sarge was the same way, when I fell he never left me, he was poking at me like he was saying "I'm sorry, get up now and we'll try it again"!

You are a natural animal person, it's a gift. Hugs to Crystal and all of the horses and dogs.

[Tiz]

"I'm not sure why are you asking the question..."

Because you're bareback, and riding with a halter, which makes you vulnerable. Getting dumped doesn't necessarily mean you'll get hurt, but as Muffin's case illustrates, successfully unloading a rider can leave a longlasting impression on the horse. Not a good one either.

[cheval]

In addition, not really understanding how to hold the reins.

I think you're doing great doing it on your own. I understand you saying you are anti-social and not wanting to have others come out and help you directly. I brought it up for consideration in case you do reach a plateau. It's easy to read how to do things but sometimes it's nice to have a person actually be there to show you what you need to do.

You might get lucky and have one of those horses that flies right through all the training!!

[Tiz]

"Can you tell if you can ride through bucking?"

I've had horses buck with me, and I've never been dumped. Not because I'm a bronc rider, but because I was able to get it stopped before I came loose. If your horse gets over the novelty of being ridden, and thinks about bucking, pull her in a tight circle and keep her moving. If you can, with the halter for control.

[Petra]

"Can you tell if you can ride through bucking?"

I've had horses buck with me, and I've never been dumped. Not because I'm a bronc rider, but because I was able to get it stopped before I came loose. If your horse gets over the novelty of being ridden, and thinks about bucking, pull her in a tight circle and keep her moving. If you can, with the halter for control.



This is hard to explain. But I'll try. I don't want to sound like know it all. So please don't understand this in that way.
Ever since I have been a very small kid I had the ability to understand body language of any animal. I always knew how animals feel and they for some reason understand me.
I'm not talking only horses. Animals that are normally pretty aggressive towards other people tolerate me.
I can read my horse very well. I know what works for her, I know her reactions when she gets scared, and I can tell when she is confused or unhappy. She wasn't used to people when I got her; wasn't even halter broke. So far I have never lost control of her. I don't have a death wish - I know what I can get away with and I never push her beyond that line.

As far as being vulnerable without saddle. I honestly believe every rider is. In fact there is always possibility you get hurt if you have horses in your life. It doesn't matter what kind of control you have over your horse. There is no way to control the unpredictable. As was said before - the horse can trip, and if you have bad luck you may not see another day. :) It's not going to stop me from keeping horses.

Thank you for the advice though. I know you mean well and I really appreciate it.


Cheval: Thanks, I promise I'll get a trainer if I'd feel like it's too much for me to handle. As I said I do know you are giving me a good advice.
I appreciate it. :)

Oursarge: Thank you! :)

[cheval]

Especially when you are riding bareback, you can feel the muscles in the horse start to tense up if they are going to spook or buck. I've always found it harder to tell in the saddle but you can there as well. So as long as you are aware, your horse will tell you, even if it's a split second before they do anything. Then you have a little bit of a warning to grip and keep your seat.

I do NOT like saddles, I never have. I broke Solon to ride with a halter and no saddle (couldn't find a bridle to fit his big mammoth head!). So it definitely can be done. Bonding is the big key I think. It looks like you've got a good bond established.

[TheBadLands]

You're doing a great job, Petra!

And I like starting them bareback, too :) They read you better. And it's easier to escape if you need to.

Two thumbs up

[WashingtonBay]

Well, I'm a big fan of saddles, but I did my share of bareback when I was young.

In fact, my first horse, I was bareback a good long while till we bought a saddle!


To make an analogy... (Badlands you might appreciate this reference) From a safety standpoint, saddles are like four wheel drive. They don't keep you from getting into trouble, they just allow you to get deeper into the trouble before you get stuck. :D

[TheBadLands]

Ah! My new siggy! lol

[WashingtonBay]

~bows~

Thank you very much, I'll be here all week :D

[carla]

OMG what a great quote, WB/BadLands! :D

I also think you're doing great, Petra! And I agree with the idea of an easier escape without a saddle.. one of my worst-case-scenario thoughts is getting caught up in the stirrups. Ugh.

[WashingtonBay]

I think the type of fall is different too, if it comes to that. Bareback, you pretty much slide off if your seat fails. Your fall is however high your horse is, and how fast your were going.

If you're in a saddle, if you go... you tend to go up. You get launched.

[Petra]

Thank you everyone! I agree; I think I can communicate with my horse better bareback.

I like your analogy WB.

Now to make you guys laugh for the day...
Before I say anything - Cheval is right - good bond is the key!
I'm glad my Crystal knows she can trust me.
I cannot believe my clumsiness!
I was getting on her and she was standing nice and still for me even though not tied. However I parked her little further from the fence than I should have. So I pushed myself off of the fence little stronger than I should have. Did you guess it? :hysterical:
Yeah, I overshot the horse and went over her right on my butt. She gave me the weirdest look like "What in a world are you doing down there???"That would have been some funny video.
No, I didn't get hurt and Crystal is not traumatized...she just thinks I'm crazy. (I think she got worried about my sanity, she seemed to be very careful not to loose me again after this lol - she walked slower than usual.)


The rest of the day went all smooth. She is getting much softer in her face. Her backing up got better too. She is so much easier to train that Trigger or Sydney was.
Today I've put up two cones and we were doing figure 8's.
I've spent longer time training her than I normally do. I was having fun so the time went faster than expected. I think she was having fun though. As I was leaving she kept calling after me.
I left her in the round pen for a little so she doesn't think the sooner we are done the sooner she'll get to graze.
I'm off to let her out. :)

[oursarge]

That would have made a great video!!!! That's something I'd do! Glad you didn't get hurt. She really is a smart horse and so pretty too.

[Petra]

That would have made a great video!!!! That's something I'd do! Glad you didn't get hurt. She really is a smart horse and so pretty too.

Thanks.
Lol my husband had a really good laugh. He was not happy he missed it. He said he needs to keep his camera charged and ready for next time.
Well I'm glad I entertain him. :rolleyes: He always finds it so hilariuos everytime I spill or drop something.

[oursarge]

He'd love me, I trip over air!!!! I spend so much time on the ground!!!!