Need another bit or maybe not ?

[Gliderider]

UPDATE !! Well I have been riding Prize and I feel he needs better brakes. He is rode in a snaffle bit he is 6 years old. I am not planning on showing English but want to ride English for my pleasure. I have been working on his brakes. I ask him to whoa with voice command while I shift my weight back in saddle and pull back on reins. He stops half the time this way and when he does stop I give instant reward by release of the reins. Other times mostly when we first start riding he will pull back on the reins which is unnerving in an English saddle he almost pulls me off the front and keeps walking with his mouth open. When he does this I make him go in circles and ask for a whoa again. Then other times he stops but starts to walk off before I ask so again I put him in circles again and ask for a whoa. If he stands still till I say go then thats it and we walk on if not in circles we go again. By the end of the ride he did seem to be better even though I was dizzy. I wonder if he is testing me. I mean he has had training in English for 3years but I am new to English so I don't know if English riding people and trainers work on whoas like the western do ? I have also thought of trying another bit like a Kimberwick or when I owned him as a 3 year old I rode him in a Argentine bit. I will run this all by my trainer on Thursday but was wondering what you all think ? I have not ever rode horses in a snaffle other then young green horses. I do plan on working with him on the one reins stop to with his brakes not being to good.

[HeartofSteel]

I ride all my horses in snaffles, but that is dressage for ya lol. What type of snaffle are you using?

[Gliderider]

Its a D ring snaffle. It came with him.

[WashingtonBay]

If you're not planning on showing, you can use whatever you like.

I do. :)

[cloedoll]

I would continue working on stopping with him before switching bits. I normally ask for the stop with my voice, then my seat and finally with my hands - whenever the horse comes to a complete stop I reward them. I don't see why any horse wouldn't be able to learn, if Keidas can, almost any horse can! Ha ha. =P He will get better with time, patience and more training. =D

[gaited07]

I would continue to teach your horse to whoa. You don't necessarily need a harsher bit just more ground/arena work.

[HeartofSteel]

I agree with ground work, that is what help Niko the most. I also taught him from the beginning to stop of my seat since that is part of dressage and you never know when something might break and your left rein-less ;)
He will also stop off my voice. Ground work/lungeing is a great way to teach them to stop from your voice.

[Gliderider]

:) Thanks Cloedoll what you do is what I do. I just was having problems putting it in words:)

Thanks everyone for your advice :)

At this time I don't have a ring hope to come spring. So now I am working with him in open pasture fields which is a bit scary when the brakes don't work to good ;) and I am new to riding English. I have only walked him but can't wait to do more but I know patience patience till his brakes are better or I am in a ring at least. ;) He does seem to be getting better in just 2 rides of working on his whoa.:) I am hoping to work with him again this evening on it. I might eventually change his bit maybe but will get his whoas better first. I am going to be starting English lessons to soon first one is Thursday but will be on a school horse for awhile.

[HeartofSteel]

Try those one-reins stops, they work wonders :)

[TLC97]

Well maybe this is the barrel racer in me, but I would work on "WHOA", not "whoa" first. I have seen to many horses that need just a little tweaking and not a harsher bit, and the owner goes for the easy fix of a harsher bit and has more problems in the long run.

You have some great advice here from different people. I am not a huge fan of the one-rein stop.

[cloedoll]

Also forgot, flexing and as half_passing_haffie mentioned, one-rein stops - both of those seem to really tune up the 'whoa' for the horse.

[luv2show]

Yes, flexing and groundwork will do you wonders. The flexing & basic showmanship will teach him to give to pressure. Since your not showing, teaching verbal cues on the ground would be a good idea :)

[gaited07]

There is a video out this is pretty good, Clinton Anderson's gaining respect on the ground. Or even the gaited one.
Flexing, one rein, shoulder in. check out them out. He also has some posted on youtube but short clips.

[vicklynn]

Your bit is fine.
I have talked about Chris Cox and his training a horse get off the bit. I believe in it. Do all your other ground work, ie, bends, flexs, ect. But when in the saddle, and your ready to work on you horse releasing the bit, you may want to try this. It works, I used it on Myst, and still on City if needed. Mind you, if I start, they remember and release ASAP.
While in the saddle, just standing, not walking, reach forward up the reins just a bit, pull them up and back, if you get a release, you release, if you dont, if your horse fights it, hold it, do not release unless that poll trys to drop. You can do this standing in the stirups, that is the 2nd part to this. Sometimes while Im out, if one of the horses gets heavy on the bit, I will stop, Ill get in their mouth, they will release, and were fine. Its a win win situation for me. I know there are others who use this also.
This does not make for a heavy mouth, putting on the gas and breaks at the same time does. This will make your horse get off that bit, cause its uncomfortable. They release, you release.
I believe in one rein stops. Start them at a walk, both directions, alot, then graduate to the trot, both directions, then the canter.
Good luck, I know you will do great by Prize.

[Gliderider]

Thanks everyone. He does do good at flexing thank goodness.

Gaited07 Sounds like some good training video's I will check around on them. I watch Clinton on RFDTV sometimes. I seen him on there doing the one rein stop. I do like him. He explains things so I can understand.

Thanks Vicklynn. I sure will give that a try. I was doing something similar. He also likes to put his head down to eat (he was rode in rings an graveled trails he use to have a fancy life now he is going to have to learn to live country :cowboy:) and I was doing what you said with the reins kind of except I was popping the bit a few times easy. Then let him stand till he started wanting to put his head down again then do it all over again. That took all of 15 minutes before he stood well. That was while I was waiting on my son to get his horse tacked and headed out for are ride. I didn't know that would help keep them light on the bit as well. I won't pop it this time though. After I get him lighter on the bit and his whoa better. Then I am working on the one rein stop. I have never done it before but feel it is a good thing to know. After I get the first part down good with Prize I would like to hear the 2nd part while standing. :)

[cyb]

I recently changed to this H gag snaffle, I like it a lot.

[gaited07]

Your welcome.
And as Vicklynn said, those flex's, one reins stop are pretty important. Keeps your horse soft and responsive.
There are so many clinicians out there and they all pretty much do the same things, flex,one rein stops.
Parelli, Anderson, Frank Bell, Larry Whitesell just to name a few. I've heard others state that Clinton Anderson is very thorough in his details. (I like him myself)

[cowpuncher]

BITS ARE NOT BRAKES!!!!!!!


As was mentioned, flexion and suppleness are the key to gaining a good stop. When you ask your horse to stop with your voice and seat cues, if he's honestly soft in the face, give him ONE stride to stop, then pick him up, and MAKE him stop. Don't release just when he stops, make him give you his face with vertical flexion, THEN release. Wait a second or two, then back him (with soft vertical flexion) a stride or two or three.

If your horse doesn't have true softness; if he;s not really soft and supple, you're always going to have trouble with him pulling on your hands, and it won't make a lick of difference what kind of bit you put on him. The only problem will be that, if he pulls on your in a snaffle bit, in a curb that's going to quickly turn into rearing up on you.

Try the method advanced above (Assuming he really is SOFT and gives you his face!), and he'll start stopping alot better for you. If you MAKE him stop, and he tries to pull through it, then instantly go to the one-rein stop. Just doing the one rein stop is not going to teach him to stop straight. You have to advance past it eventually.

[Gliderider]

Good UPDATE !! Had my first English Lesson on Prize today !! It went well..The trainer work with us on his brakes and flexing..He did great...Now for us to practice to get it even better.That is my assignment this week to work on are Whoa and backing. Yeah I will admit I was doing it wrong well not wrong just not how he was taught. Yippee !! I am just happy it was figured out and we can get on the road to improvement now.. Thanks every one for your tips and info. I appreicate it.

[Palogal]

You might try a stronger bit for a short time and return to your snaffle. I've found that's helpful. You use the stronger bit lighter and lighter until you don't need it and then return to your snaffle.

Although, your story reminds me of the lesson I taught last night. The student was working a course of trot poles on a 3 yr old warmblood. He was running past the obstacle and not turning when she wanted. She whined for a stronger bit and I refused. I had her do lots and lots of halts between obstacles and then gradually took the halts out until she rode the entire course beginning to end without a single halt.

Realistically, if the horse was older I probably would have let her use a stronger bit for "jumping" type activities. I use a slow twist for jumping and a pelham for dressage. I school in D-ring snaffle most of the time.

I guess my point is that some horses need a collection of bits for certain occasions.

[Palogal]

I recently changed to this H gag snaffle, I like it a lot.

Yikes, not being snotty..really... Where do the reins go? How does this bit work?

[Gliderider]

You might try a stronger bit for a short time and return to your snaffle. I've found that's helpful. You use the stronger bit lighter and lighter until you don't need it and then return to your snaffle.

Although, your story reminds me of the lesson I taught last night. The student was working a course of trot poles on a 3 yr old warmblood. He was running past the obstacle and not turning when she wanted. She whined for a stronger bit and I refused. I had her do lots and lots of halts between obstacles and then gradually took the halts out until she rode the entire course beginning to end without a single halt.

Realistically, if the horse was older I probably would have let her use a stronger bit for "jumping" type activities. I use a slow twist for jumping and a pelham for dressage. I school in D-ring snaffle most of the time.

I guess my point is that some horses need a collection of bits for certain occasions.

Yeah my trainer did say if we need to she is not against using another bit if needed. But she thinks with me doing the exercise she showed me with him that in no time he will be stopping better. She thinks since I didn't know how to tell him to whoa (the way he was taught) for are first rides together that he is very smart and just trying me but once he realizes I know how he will start stopping better an better. I can't wait to work with him on it again tonight.

[vicklynn]

Thanks everyone. He does do good at flexing thank goodness.

Gaited07 Sounds like some good training video's I will check around on them. I watch Clinton on RFDTV sometimes. I seen him on there doing the one rein stop. I do like him. He explains things so I can understand.

Thanks Vicklynn. I sure will give that a try. I was doing something similar. He also likes to put his head down to eat (he was rode in rings an graveled trails he use to have a fancy life now he is going to have to learn to live country :cowboy:) and I was doing what you said with the reins kind of except I was popping the bit a few times easy. Then let him stand till he started wanting to put his head down again then do it all over again. That took all of 15 minutes before he stood well. That was while I was waiting on my son to get his horse tacked and headed out for are ride. I didn't know that would help keep them light on the bit as well. I won't pop it this time though. After I get him lighter on the bit and his whoa better. Then I am working on the one rein stop. I have never done it before but feel it is a good thing to know. After I get the first part down good with Prize I would like to hear the 2nd part while standing. :)
When you are applying pressure on the reins, dont pop him, it is a steady hold, he releases then you release. When you learn that, the next step is standing in the stirrups, it is the same thing, hold and release. It will take less than 15 minutes, because it is constant, not pop pop pop.
As far as country living..lol..poor neglected City is a country boy too. Was very spoiled and lived the good stall life..lol

[cyb]

Yikes, not being snotty..really... Where do the reins go? How does this bit work?
You can either attach the reins to the long oval shaped holes to use this bit as a snaffle or you can attach the reins to the bottom round ring to use as a gag bit, but you would definately have to have a very light hand to use the bottom ring, if you do you do use the bottom ring the mouth piece slides up on the bit when you pull back and then applies pressure to the poll .

[Diane of Buck's Hollow]

I did alot of ground work with Buck when I first got him. I spent a couple of months on the "Whoa" He now can stop on a dime....My trainer, when she started working with him on his balance and canter...said she and especially me...when I start to canter...(which I have now) need to be very careful and be "prepared" before asking for a stop!!! lol

He stops so fast, that if you are not prepared...you go over the head...LoL