Dressage Myths

[Palogal]

Dressage is a beautiful thing, however, there are things that dressage is NOT. I get students from other trainers that I consider good trainers that still believe some things about dressage that are not true. Here are some things that aggravate me...

1) A horse that is tucking his nose is neither on the bit or collected. He's tucking his nose.

2) A horse that tucks the nose behind the vertical is not in correct position (see #1) and is just as bad as sticking his nose out in front of him.


3) Dressage can be done in a snaffle, double reins are not needed, can be used, but not necessary.

4) "on the bit" has nothing to do with a bit. A horse can be on the bit in a halter in lead rope. Collection also has nothing to do with a bit.


Anyone else????

[zoel_222]

God #1 drives me nuts. Everyone where I work(ed) seems to think see-sawing their hands back and forth to get the horse's head down into an awkward position makes the horse collect. It's so painful to watch. Their horses neck gets bent all crooked into what looks like a very crampy position. Yes their head comes down, but their backs are hollow as ever and they're just not even close to carrying themselves correctly.

[Palogal]

God #1 drives me nuts. Everyone where I work(ed) seems to think see-sawing their hands back and forth to get the horse's head down into an awkward position makes the horse collect. It's so painful to watch. Their horses neck gets bent all crooked into what looks like a very crampy position. Yes their head comes down, but their backs are hollow as ever and they're just not even close to carrying themselves correctly.

I take the bridle away and make the student ride in a halter and lead rope if I see that. NO WAY.

[cheval]

The biggest issue I seem to read about is the rider everyone calls Anky is god's gift to dressage. At least a lot of the posts I've seen her name mentioned they think it's a myth and don't seem to care for her too much.

[cheval]

You have to have double reins to do dressage?

[rocknK]

It helps some at the higher levels.

[cheval]

Here I go hijacking the thread but does it keep the horse more collected? I've never really understood what it does. Looks REALLY complicated to handle.

[Remali]

I hate it when people think collection comes from the front and they have to see-saw on the reins!!!
Collection comes from behind, and with the use of seat and legs. There are so many people in my area that seem to think the #1 thing means a horse is collected. lol.

[Palogal]

Here I go hijacking the thread but does it keep the horse more collected? I've never really understood what it does. Looks REALLY complicated to handle.


No, not really, it does help get that last 1/2 inch or so for the "on the bit" position. Kind of a refining thing. People like them because they get the head position pretty easily. although..see #1 in the original post :)

[oursarge]

I am so ignorant I don't even know what dressage is! I have heard of it I just don't know what it is! We ride western, just trail rides or in the indoor or outdoor arenas, we don't do anything fancy. Most of the boarders are older people and are just happy to stay on the horse!

Our friend is working at an English barn now and is training jumpers so we've been to a local show he's ridden in [They travel all over to the bigger shows], I didn't understand that either, we were like a bunch of hillbillies go to a fancy horse show!!!! None of us knew what event was what, most of the horses looked the same, except for one paint who was 17.2 hands! The rideres were all dressed the same right to their helmets. We were all clueless except for my friend and she went off by herself to video tape her son riding so she didn't get "What the H*&& are they doing now" over and over on her video. It was pretty funny, they can't even dress us up and take us out we're still hillbillies.

I liked seeing the horses jump but I didn't understand the events since to me the pattern looked the same for most of them but it probably wasn't. One poor girl fell off. Not as bad as the last western show we were at though, a horse jumped the gate during the games and a girl who was standing at the gate got flung in the air. She was OK but it was really lucky she was, they took her to the ER because she did get knocked out.

[HeartofSteel]

Anky is kinda the inventor of Rolkur, not my way of training. Supposedly the majority of the dressage riders in the warm up ring at the World Games were warming there horses up in a rolkur position.

[Jump The Moon]

Grr. I hate the see-sawing myth, all it does is make them sour..
I was so annoyed when a friend who I lead round on Billy then told me "I'm good at dressage, watch I'll make him do it.." and see-sawed only to find him backing up xD Billy knows it the correct way.. it may've taken me 8 months to perfect it but he knows the correct way... and clearly didn't think much of see-sawing :P

[KittySawrus]

I only just got see-sawing :P it certainly drives me nuts. Number one I also have a HUGE problem with. "Ah, yes, your pony's on the bit, you want to ease off a bit there" "No he's not, it's just the angle you're standing at". I actually got that once, for real. Eejits.

Anky - as in Anky Van Grunsven? "Oooh, she's so ah-maaazing, she competed in the Olympics 5 months pregnant..." T_T yeah, Rollkur is horrendous, I remember at a stables I briefly passed thru the stable manager threw a livery out who trained her horse in Rollkur. Poor horse just looked tortured D:

What myths do I have....well I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but I'll probably recognise any more that come up.

[Palogal]

Anky can take Rollkur and stick it...um well anyway. I can't stand that either.

[cheval]

Dang, she invented it? No wonder people dislike her so much. Speaking of it, what's the point? Is it just an aesthetic thing or does she and others think it actually does something?

[WashingtonBay]

Dang, she invented it? No wonder people dislike her so much. Speaking of it, what's the point? Is it just an aesthetic thing or does she and others think it actually does something?

I think she would say the point is like any kind of stretching, you stretch beyond what you want to be at, in order to be strong and comfortable in the correct place. It's just overstretching. No more, no less.



Just to be a wet blanket, my 'dressage myth' is that people who talk about collection on the internet are snobs. Lord help the person who asks how to do it. They see other people with collected horses, how can I get that head set? Internet forums get all up in themselves about it and treat it like the price of a Rolls Royce: If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

I do think people mistake collection for "slowness"... i.e. "A collected jog" or their better question might be "how do I slow my horse down??" And some mistake it for a nice tucked-in nose - A nice "head set". They aren't really wrong in what they see or what they want, they're just not using the right words. And if there's one thing dressage people are really snooty about, it's words. So they clash on the internet, someone asks the question wrong, a lot of people show off how much they know without really saying anything about how to get it right, and people learn not to ask that question again! :p Or worse, they just repeat it to the next person that asks them! Full circle. The 'correct' internet answer for everything is born. :D

^ I'm just feeling saucy. :D

I think there are better words than collection... words that haven't become as misunderstood as "collection" has. More descriptive words like impulsion, self-carriage, and engagement.


On double reins... I like them for their precision. The ability to give more complex cues with less movement from the rider. I never rode high enough level in dressage to use them there, but I used them in Saddle Seat.

[TheBadLands]

The biggest issue I seem to read about is the rider everyone calls Anky is god's gift to dressage. At least a lot of the posts I've seen her name mentioned they think it's a myth and don't seem to care for her too much.

She's an idiot.. so is Heidi Erickson.. you can tell her I said that. I got stuck with her as a child in training.....

You have to have double reins to do dressage?

"Dressage" means to train. It doesn't mean you need a top hat and a certain saddle or bridle. I take all classical principles and apply them to ALL horses no matter what their discipline. I can simplify things for say a cow horse, who won't get all the connection a dressage rider has... but all in all, a horse needs to understand self carriage, lightness, and submissiveness... whether you ride western, english, upside down or roman....

It helps some at the higher levels.

Yes it does. But it's too often used at lower levels and a "two reined bridle" such as a pelham is NOT a weymouth bridoon double bridle.... COMPLETELY different. And also extremely difficult to master.

Here I go hijacking the thread but does it keep the horse more collected? I've never really understood what it does. Looks REALLY complicated to handle.

No... often times, as I said above, riders don't even use the correct set up for a "dressage" horse and use something like a pelham to achieve this... so then what I see horses who's "head is on the verticle" but strung out behind.... I'd rather see a horses nose in the air but his hindquarters under him, than a horse with a "headset" flayling out behind himself like a fool.

I hate it when people think collection comes from the front and they have to see-saw on the reins!!!
Collection comes from behind, and with the use of seat and legs. There are so many people in my area that seem to think the #1 thing means a horse is collected. lol.

I posted something in the martingale thread about this.... the horse "supposebley" didn't know how to turn or put his head down etc etc... I let his head go whereever it wanted.. I drove him with my seat and he figured it out in 20 minutes... I have video of it, too... I agree... hands are E breaks.. your seat is your life line...

No, not really, it does help get that last 1/2 inch or so for the "on the bit" position. Kind of a refining thing. People like them because they get the head position pretty easily. although..see #1 in the original post :)

There is no measurement to "on the bit" and the whole term is really overused... Your horse can have a big, nice trot that is balance with his head in the air... or he can have a strung out, nasty, choppy, unbalanced trot with himself that perfect ratio of "on the bit" .... the horse with his head in the air with fair far better.

Anky is kinda the inventor of Rolkur, not my way of training. Supposedly the majority of the dressage riders in the warm up ring at the World Games were warming there horses up in a rolkur position.

:doh::doh:

Grr. I hate the see-sawing myth, all it does is make them sour..
I was so annoyed when a friend who I lead round on Billy then told me "I'm good at dressage, watch I'll make him do it.." and see-sawed only to find him backing up xD Billy knows it the correct way.. it may've taken me 8 months to perfect it but he knows the correct way... and clearly didn't think much of see-sawing :P

I <3 Billy lol

But to that point.. I see more see sawing here in ALL disciplines.. it usually is followed by screaming, whipping, kicking, angry kids or riders....

It's on my rule policy here... and I fine for it.

Dang, she invented it? No wonder people dislike her so much. Speaking of it, what's the point? Is it just an aesthetic thing or does she and others think it actually does something?

It's like putting a hamster in a shoe box with a alley cat.... the little one might fight the battle, but the bigger one triumphs overall... it's a way to intimidate a horse. to force something people are too lazy to try to make happen at the horses will.... it hardly works.

I think she would say the point is like any kind of stretching, you stretch beyond what you want to be at, in order to be strong and comfortable in the correct place. It's just overstretching. No more, no less.



Just to be a wet blanket, my 'dressage myth' is that people who talk about collection on the internet are snobs. Lord help the person who asks how to do it. They see other people with collected horses, how can I get that head set? Internet forums get all up in themselves about it and treat it like the price of a Rolls Royce: If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

I do think people mistake collection for "slowness"... i.e. "A collected jog" or their better question might be "how do I slow my horse down??" And some mistake it for a nice tucked-in nose - A nice "head set". They aren't really wrong in what they see or what they want, they're just not using the right words. And if there's one thing dressage people are really snooty about, it's words. So they clash on the internet, someone asks the question wrong, a lot of people show off how much they know without really saying anything about how to get it right, and people learn not to ask that question again! :p Or worse, they just repeat it to the next person that asks them! Full circle. The 'correct' internet answer for everything is born. :D

^ I'm just feeling saucy. :D

I think there are better words than collection... words that haven't become as misunderstood as "collection" has. More descriptive words like impulsion, self-carriage, and engagement.


On double reins... I like them for their precision. The ability to give more complex cues with less movement from the rider. I never rode high enough level in dressage to use them there, but I used them in Saddle Seat.

I see the "start" of collection in the body.... never the head... people watch the head and watch and watch and when the poll break they think they have it.. but really they don't. They use so much hand and bridle and tack and tools and looking and thinking they forget they have a seat to drive that horse into correction... not collection. People lack the patience to allow a horse to find out how comfortable it is... they want it now... horses are fragile in the sense that they can be extremely vendictive.. and if I had some unbalance ***hat on my back yanking me in all directions to achieve all they can forsee with their very eyes, which is nothing behind the shoulder, I'd be a little mad. A horse must learn forward first. The forward is natural... the total frame is a willingness on the horses part to "give" and "trust" and find a comfort zone. Not to be yanked into submission.

[rocknK]

BD, you get the award for most quotes used in a single post!!!!!!!:p

[Arrow]

Just to be a wet blanket, my 'dressage myth' is that people who talk about collection on the internet are snobs. Lord help the person who asks how to do it. They see other people with collected horses, how can I get that head set? Internet forums get all up in themselves about it and treat it like the price of a Rolls Royce: If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.



OMG...truer words were never posted...

[Spyder]

Anky is kinda the inventor of Rolkur, not my way of training. Supposedly the majority of the dressage riders in the warm up ring at the World Games were warming there horses up in a rolkur position.

Nope it was Nicole Uphoff (Rembrant's rider) and her trainer.

[TheBadLands]

Just to be a wet blanket, my 'dressage myth' is that people who talk about collection on the internet are snobs. Lord help the person who asks how to do it. They see other people with collected horses, how can I get that head set? Internet forums get all up in themselves about it and treat it like the price of a Rolls Royce: If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

And if there's one thing dressage people are really snooty about, it's words. So they clash on the internet, someone asks the question wrong, a lot of people show off how much they know without really saying anything about how to get it right, and people learn not to ask that question again! :p Or worse, they just repeat it to the next person that asks them! Full circle. The 'correct' internet answer for everything is born. :D

^ I'm just feeling saucy. :D

I think there are better words than collection... words that haven't become as misunderstood as "collection" has. More descriptive words like impulsion, self-carriage, and engagement.



I agree. I also will say that I have found that when advice is requested...the answer isn't always taken lightly. So you can explain until you're blue in the face (or fingers)... sit and type a novel to help, and it doesn't mean they'll listen.

Honestly the biggest problem is those who have transitioned to dressage without a willingness to listen to anyone outside. I transitioned OUT of dressage and still willingly give advice. It's very straight forward, but it's advice. And I've had many a good forum member pick and prod at said advice, and I answer. It's hard to answer a very broad question specifically.. so sometimes all we can do is return a broad answer and wait for a more specific response.

[cheval]

I've never run across the 'people talking about collection are snobs one'. That's crazy. Is it because they think it's hard to do and those who can do somehow are 'elite'?

It's not that hard once you figure out what you are doing. I've managed so get Solon there a couple of times. It's a really unusual feeling when you are riding collected. Unusual in a good way.

That's too bad that there are people out there that feel that way. You gotta start somewhere as far as knowing/understanding how to do it.

[Arrow]

Lots and lots of people who talk about collection on a variety of horse forums do it in an overbearingly condescending way...doesn't mean they don't give some good advice, but there you have it...

[Gypsy Rose]

My biggest pet peeve? People mistaking connection for on the bit.

Connection only means that the horse is accepting the bit, not backing off or lugging on it.

On the bit, the horse is driving from behind and using the hindquarters properly, moving forward over the back and to the bit. (Something Gypsy has trouble doing these days with her arthritis, lol!)

If I missed any steps in my explanation, someone feel free to add them. I'm lousy at explaining things, lol!

[Palogal]

I'm glad to see in some dressage mags that the term "on the bit" is not as popular as it used to be. I see "Self-carriage" and "collection" and some other terms that make much more sense. I mean really "on the bit" ??? standing on the bit, sitting on the bit, chewing on the bit? It's not surprising at all the misconception between proper balance and see sawing on the reins to get the horse "on the bit"

[Palogal]

I've never run across the 'people talking about collection are snobs one'. That's crazy. Is it because they think it's hard to do and those who can do somehow are 'elite'?

It's not that hard once you figure out what you are doing. I've managed so get Solon there a couple of times. It's a really unusual feeling when you are riding collected. Unusual in a good way.

That's too bad that there are people out there that feel that way. You gotta start somewhere as far as knowing/understanding how to do it.

I think it because that feeling is so impossible to describe.

[cheval]

It's definitely an odd feeling. Like all the powers of the universe come together or something! You really feel like one with the horse that's for certain.

Someone above mentioned head set vs. collection. I think this is the one thing I see most confused by people.

[HeartofSteel]

Alot of problems come from pushing the horse to hard and not allowing them to get the muscle they need and thats when BTV happens