"Fair Use" on the internet

[WashingtonBay]

Here's a springboard for discussion... inspired by our recently locked thread.

What is "fair use" of content posted on the internet?

Some things on the internet are public, some are proprietary, some are obviously INTENDED to be copied and passed around the internet (the pictures on icanhascheeseburger would be a screaming example) Some are not... at least without quoting and attributing the source.

Sometimes we can't tell which is which... when we receive things that have been forwarded all over the internet, when we find videos and pictures on the internet that we'd like to post. Sometimes we don't know where it came from or who wrote it or who they belong to.

I will say as Moderator, my policy on the topic is this: (Excerpted from here: Illustrated Reminder of BaywindFarm Forum Guidelines!) (http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/showthread.php?p=164819#post164819)Keep your personal info personal and use caution when sharing it with other members. Do not post your contact info in public on the forum, and be wary of posting anything that you would not want to be public.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ecurbh/humor/tmi.gif

Pictures, stories, vent and complaint threads about other people are risky at best and you should always consider that they might be seen by the people involved. Information, once posted is public, and will be found via Google and other search engines. Do not post anyone else's private information without express permission. This includes pictures and advertisements posted here without the knowledge or permission of the owners for the purpose of criticizing or badmouthing them. We reserve the right to discourage and/or delete that kind of posting.

In the same vein, be truthful about what you do post on the forum. Do not mislead people about yourself or your experiences. Identities and experiences that are proved to be fabrications and lies will be grounds for banning at our discretion.

All content posted here becomes property of BaywindFarm.com. If you wish to leave the forum, we will not normally delete your posting history. We may close your account on request and can anonymize your profile information. If you ask for this to be done, this will be considered permanent. It will be our policy to not delete content except for that which we determine to be harmful or threatening to a third party. In the event members cause us to ban their account, we will intend to leave all offending posts we can so other members can know why. Members should post with this in mind: We will not typically clean up messes left by lost tempers (or emotional outbursts) or too many drinks last night, so post at all times as if you will have to live with what you said in the morning. You will.
I mean it when I say that with very few exceptions for good, constructive discussion or advice, I don't want to see threads that are mean spirited laugh-and-point kind of threads. I've been pretty clear on that from the beginning, but not everyone has been here since the beginning to hear my lecture on it: There's already too much nastiness on the web... surely we can do more good for more horse owners by posting the positive things... the good and inspiring examples we find, not just the bad.

That said... I think intent is everything, and even posting the good things doesn't keep us from occasionally making someone mad. If you want to post or share something that is good and belongs to someone else... Give credit for it and a link back to where you found it. That's just good manners.



Discuss :)

[peace_baby]

I think you hit the nail on the head WBay. I really don't see why she had to keep dragging it on after you fixed the OP in the thread.

Maybe if you can't find the owner (from now on) you could google the name of whatever it is you're posting to see if maybe an author's name popped up? Just to stay on the safe side of course. And if you can't find the author's name, post it as "Author Unknown".

[cheval]

I'd like to hear others chime in on how it works with the internet.


Does 'Author Unknown' count?

[Pinky]

Apart from thinking that the owner of the [Deleted Essay] (thread title (c)2009-9999 to WashingtonBay and BWF forums) is a complete kook, I'm not sure where I sit with this.

Lately, if I've been in doubt about posting something (pretty much everything I've thought of posting), I just won't post :). I'm happy sitting in the shadows of the forum with my flag, but I may occasionally jump into the light and say something. Tonight, it would appear that I'm on a posting spree.

For Fair Use, look at what's been going on with YouTube and WMG music. You can get around it by arguing 'fair use', but how many of the songs used are actually paid for and not illegally downloaded? I'd say less than 10%. So there you have a Copyright Infringement which (I may be mistaken) automatically 'voids' the Fair Use clause.

[peace_baby]

Tonight, it would appear that I'm on a posting spree.

Here here! :cheers:

[mare]

I've never thought to check on jokes that I get in emails or find on another forum I visit. Don't expect to start. I am always careful when writing papers and info brochures for patients to cite internet sources as I do print sources.

But, items are used without permission whether in print or off the internet. IMO intent should carry a lot of weight with regard to response.

[cheval]

And does it matter whether it is for commercial use?

I cite internet sources for reports. But stories, jokes etc. that I get forwarded, never have thought to do anything with before I share them with someone else.

[WashingtonBay]

I've never thought to check on jokes that I get in emails or find on another forum I visit. Don't expect to start.

I want to say for the record that I don't intend to start either... I can't look and google every thread posted here to see if it might have been copied from somewhere else.

If I do click on it and wonder, I'll ask the question and ask the poster to please post a link.

If I am notified by anyone that their content has been posted here against their wishes, I'll act on it.

If I'm accused (or our members are) of malice and mal-intent before I can even try to make it right, I will try to be the mature one from here on out...

But that's all I can promise. :)

[peace_baby]

I want to say for the record that I don't intend to start either... I can't look and google every thread posted here to see if it might have been copied from somewhere else.

If I do click on it and wonder, I'll ask the question and ask the poster to please post a link.

If I am notified by anyone that their content has been posted here against their wishes, I'll act on it.

If I'm accused (or our members are) of malice and mal-intent before I can even try to make it right, I will try to be the mature one from here on out...

But that's all I can promise. :)

Sounds good to me. :)

Honestly, I don't really care to google any of that stuff either unless someone asks me to.

[gabhainn]

I musta missed something that prompted this could someone enlighten me por favor?...Kevin

[Pinky]

gabhain - Here (http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8779) is the failboat wreck in all its glory :).

[WashingtonBay]

gabhain, an essay was posted here... Over a month ago I think. It was copied from another site that did not credit the author, and repeated here, without credit. It was a lovely essay, and there was no harm intended on the OPs part.

The author of the essay found it, via google, and signed up here, and called us, and the OP, thieves, along with a lot of other hyperbole, and a feeding frenzy ensued. But that was more about the personalities involved than anything else, it was never our goal to make unfair use of someone else's stuff, or to defend such.

I've now made it as right for her as I intend to. The thread is locked, her essay has been removed. She has been banned. [She was not banned for arguing her point... she was banned for making mean-spirited threats]

There is a question of fair use that is still very good for discussion.... up to and including whether her threat to send our pictures and content to sites that are well known for using people's pictures and content to mock them, or worse is 'fair use'. FWIW, it may be... It's unethical on her part, absolutely, but it is probably legal for them to do what they do.

[Horseaholic]

This is a quoted from the website at the bottom I think it's pretty informative...

FAIR USE
The concept of fair use can be confusing and difficult to apply to particular uses of copyright protected material. Understanding the concept of fair use and when it applies may help ensure your compliance with copyright law.

Fair use is a uniquely U.S. concept, created by judges and enshrined in the law. Fair use recognizes that certain types of use of other people's copyright protected works do not require the copyright holder's authorization. In these instances, it is presumed the use is minimal enough that it does not interfere with the copyright holder's exclusive rights to reproduce and otherwise reuse the work.

Fair use is primarily designed to allow the use of the copyright protected work for commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education. However, fair use is not an exception to copyright compliance so much as it is a "legal defense." That is, if you use a copyright protected work and the copyright owner claims copyright infringement, you may be able to assert a defense of fair use, which you would then have to prove.

Section 107 of the United States Copyright Act lists four factors to help judges determine, and therefore to help you predict, when content usage may be considered "fair use."

The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit, educational purposes.
If a particular usage is intended to help you or your organization to derive financial or other business-related benefits from the copyright material, then that is probably not fair use.

The nature of the copyrighted work.
Use of a purely factual work is more likely to be considered fair use than use of someone's creative work.

The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyright protected work as a whole.
There are no set page counts or percentages that define the boundaries of fair use. Courts exercise common-sense judgment about whether what is being used is too much of, or so important to, the original overall work as to be beyond the scope of fair use.

The effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the copyright protected work.
This factor looks at whether the nature of the use competes with or diminishes the potential market for the form of use that the copyright holder is already employing, or can reasonably be expected soon to employ, in order to make money for itself through licensing.

At one extreme, simple reproduction of a work (i.e., photocopying) is commonly licensed by copyright holders, and therefore photocopying in a business environment is not likely to be considered fair use.

At the other extreme, true parody is more likely to be considered fair use because it is unlikely that the original copyright holder would create a parody of his or her own work.

While the factors above are helpful guides, they do not clearly identify uses that are or are not fair use. Fair use is not a straightforward concept, therefore the fair use analysis must be conducted on a case-by-case basis.

Understanding the scope of fair use and becoming familiar with those situations where it applies and those where it does not can help protect you and your organization from unauthorized use of copyright materials, however, many individuals do not want this responsibility. Corporate Copyright Policies (link to section) often provide guidelines for determining whether a use may be considered fair use. Frequently, a complete risk analysis is required. Most organizations prefer to follow the motto "when in doubt, obtain permission."

Thousands of cases, and many, many books and articles have attempted to analyze fair use in order to define specific examples.

Examples of Fair Use include:

Quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment.
Quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work for illustration or clarification of the author's observations.
Reproduction of material for classroom use where the reproduction was unexpected and spontaneous–for example, where an article in the morning's paper is directly relevant to that day's class topic.
Use in a parody of short portions of the work itself.
A summary of an address or article, which may include quotations of short passages of the copyrighted work.

http://www.copyright.com/ccc/viewPage.do?pageCode=cr10-n#publicdomain

[TheRedHayflinger]

it's funny...i've seen that exact same essay on about 20 other horse forums and message boards and have received it in e mails numerous times. And have so for about 2 years now, or at least for a year. I think you handled this situation the best you could.

[Horseaholic]

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.


this is another quote from the above site which HF posted in the the other thread as well.

[FoxFireEMT]

IMO anyone that posts ANYTHING on the internet, whether it be on a public form, a personal web page, myspace, facebook, twitter, witter, what the heck ever.... your inviting the world to view it. In inviting the world to view it your opening yourself up for possiblities of someone taking, qouting, stealing, thiving whatever you want to call it, from your site. Whenever I post anything, I think to myself, is this something I want out there, and am I willing to accept that someone may take it, alter it & make it look goofy. SURE. Would I be happy if someone stole my work and didn't claim me as the author yes. But there are far better ways of dealing with it. And if she was going to be so uptight about it & it was personal she should of never posted it in the first place. It's something that I accepted and realized when I post anything on a public forum/site. Thats just my 2 cents.

[WashingtonBay]

That's my feeling on it too, EMT... all we can really control is our own actions and reactions to the world. If you don't want it seen by anyone, if you don't want it forwarded or copied, don't post it. And that counts for private mail too. You have no control over your words once you hit send... consider carefully what you send and to who, in this day and age.

Shadyhill... Thanks for your posted info... very informative!

[FoxFireEMT]

I guess I just live in a world were reality is in my face & I'm not ignorant to the possiblities that actually happen out there. And threatening to sue everyone is just crazy.... ahhhh with out the crazy people in the world I wouldn't have a job!

Whoops forgot:

Shadyhill: Ya thanks. Learn somethings I didn't know.

[Country Girl 43]

WB I think you handled it very professionally.

The woman was/is a nut case, plain and simple. No one here did anything wrong and really some of the responses were quite entertaining. :) I personally think she was just trying to get more hit counts on her web site. She succeeded in drawing everyone to her website because of her ranting.

Baywind Farm is a good place with a tight family. I really love this place even if we have our own little family fights, we are all still family.

[cheval]

What about the blogs that take pictures from other sites without listing copyright? Is that Fair Use?

[Horseaholic]

no problemo.

I agree with you, WB and EMT...100%

[Horseaholic]

WB I think you handled it very professionally.

The woman was/is a nut case, plain and simple. No one here did anything wrong and really some of the responses were quite entertaining. :) I personally think she was just trying to get more hit counts on her web site. She succeeded in drawing everyone to her website because of her ranting.

Baywind Farm is a good place with a tight family. I really love this place even if we have our own little family fights, we are all still family.


I agree 100% here too.

[Horseaholic]

What about the blogs that take pictures from other sites without listing copyright? Is that Fair Use?



which blogs are you talking about exactly? I noticed that people like Perez and TMZ link to where the photo is from.

[cheval]

Horse blogs. I read Shame in the Showring but I know there are other blogs out there. The Shame blog has a pretty funny way of blocking out the identities of the riders. They use big huge smilies. :)

[WashingtonBay]

I think it does fall into fair use because it is for the purpose of parody, comment or criticism. Legally, that's all fair game, as long as the source is identified.

Ethically, I think it's not very sporting... but the law doesn't require everyone be nice. Nice is up to us.

[WashingtonBay]

WB I think you handled it very professionally.

Well thanks :)... but this is by no means a profession... it's a hobby... and one I don't claim to be all-that-wise about, much of the time. I try very hard, and I've been around enough forums to have some opinions about how they should be run, but when situations develop, I very much guess and second guess what the right thing to do is. It's not easy to know the exact right thing and I don't claim to have mastered it. I just do the best I can.

[Horseaholic]

And that counts for private mail too. You have no control over your words once you hit send... consider carefully what you send and to who, in this day and age.

A good example of this is Stephenie Meyer, the author of the Twilight Saga. She sent her partial draft of Midnight Sun to "friends" and it ended up out on the internet.

She's really hurt about it and has actually stopped writing the book because she's so upset. A lesson that's very hard to learn on your own. Especially when you're someone of her caliber.

[cheval]

So sharing the poem was basically Fair Use since it was offered up as 'comment'.

Shadyhill - you gotta wonder at the kind of friends you have when they do that sort of stuff like what happened to Stephanie.

[WashingtonBay]

So sharing the poem was basically Fair Use since it was offered up as 'comment'.

Especially once it was properly credited and sourced, yes, I think so.

[pandorasmom]

So sharing the poem was basically Fair Use since it was offered up as 'comment'.

Shadyhill - you gotta wonder at the kind of friends you have when they do that sort of stuff like what happened to Stephanie.

Ditto.. I hadn't heard of that, but if that's what they did, shame on them. Especially with someone like her that they know is big.

P.S. I think you handled it as good as anyone could WB. Personally you did a whole lot better then I would've. :p

[Horseaholic]

yea its crazy. She was actually smart enough to number each one she sent out and they were all a bit different so she knows who did it. So now she knows who her friends are. Scary.

And I would agree , if I understand correctly, that the poem falls under fair use because it was here for comment and we weren't making any profits from it.

[Horseaholic]

yea its crazy. She was actually smart enough to number each one she sent out and they were all a bit different so she knows who did it. So now she knows who her friends are. Scary.

And I would agree , if I understand correctly, that the poem falls under fair use because it was here for comment and we weren't making any profits from it.

[pandorasmom]

Guess it's a true test of friendship, huh?

[Horseaholic]

woops idk how I double posted. I'm on my iPod touch. But seriously about the true test of friendship.

[lovesfortune]

IMO anyone that posts ANYTHING on the internet, whether it be on a public form, a personal web page, myspace, facebook, twitter, witter, what the heck ever.... your inviting the world to view it. In inviting the world to view it your opening yourself up for possiblities of someone taking, qouting, stealing, thiving whatever you want to call it, from your site. Whenever I post anything, I think to myself, is this something I want out there, and am I willing to accept that someone may take it, alter it & make it look goofy. SURE. Would I be happy if someone stole my work and didn't claim me as the author yes. But there are far better ways of dealing with it. And if she was going to be so uptight about it & it was personal she should of never posted it in the first place. It's something that I accepted and realized when I post anything on a public forum/site. Thats just my 2 cents.
i agree with this 150% - well said.

[Equine_Woman]

I have people snag my photos all the time. Generally when I find out 'who dunnit' it's young horse loving ladies who didn't know any better and I just let them know VERY nicely how to check for copyrights. In fact I've had a few of them this week. My view on it is if the 'theft' wasn't for profit, or personal use on say a wall. . .(where I should be paid for my work) then I'm cool with it. But I don't post my "GREAT" stuff up for anyone to steal freely. I keep that locked away. When I do events and such I charge one fee for all the photos and keep no rights to them. I don't print them myself, the person does. . so they can be reproduced as many times as the original owner likes. . . but I'm not cheap. . And I'd probably make more money doing it differently but so far it works for me. . .

[cowgirlup@idaho]

She definitely has mental problems...say...Borderline Personality Disorder? All about herself, she is the victim, punitive and continues to stir the pot. She would have never stopped.

Someone asked if maybe the first troll had arrived? WOW!

[oursarge]

WB you handled it well. I don't really know what she wanted.....Blood? She should have been happy people loved what she wrote. Nobody here stole her work, if she didn't want it stolen she shouldn't have put it out there. My cousin is an artist, she has a blog, if I want people to see her work I send them there I don't copy her pictures. She has had people steal her work though. It's not something she likes but she knows it's going to happen. I have another good artist friend and she's had the asian market steal her work and has been told there isn't much she can do especially because she doesn't have the money to fight them. There was someone on e-bay stealing her work and claiming it as her own idea. She changed one thing about it and my friend was told "too bad" e-bay wouldn't take the listings down. I guess when your work is on the internet you have to expect it to be used. That whole thing about her selling stuff so others don't was just bizarre.

I get things sent to me all the time, if I think they are good I send them on but very rarely do I do that because I hate opening a mail box full of jokes or inspirational stuff, chain things etc. It has to be really good for me to send something on since I feel others don't want mail boxes full of things other than regular e-mails. I never look to see who wrote what I sent, I figure if it's out on the internet and people are forwarding it over and over and over it's free game. That might not be right but I'm not going to research everything that comes to me. Most of it I delete.

That whole thing was just NUTS to me, I said it in the other thread and I'm saying it now NUTS, if you didn't lock it the thing would have never stopped, it would be 200 pages of her going on about nothing. It's too bad her friends stole her work but it's not Lisa's fault, she was sharing something she thought was beautiful and it was but how could something like that come from that woman? Boggles the mind.

I don't put alot of pictures up, if I do and if someone wants them they can have them, I don't think that they'll be using my animals for porno stuff! If they do I'm sure my animals would like it! I wanted to send my cat's foster mother pictures from this area because she can not understand how rural we live, we don't have stores on every corner, we have stores 30 minutes away but if we really want to shop we have to go an hr away. Anyway I have a beautiful photo of my friend's farm, it's on her website but still I asked her if it was OK to send to Molly's foster mother. She said yes. I have tons of pictures of her kids riding in shows and barrel racing etc. They are amazing pictures but I'd never put them on line since they aren't my kids. I think the kids put them on their Facebook pages but I won't put them up. I also don't say anything I wouldn't say to someone's face. You don't know who's reading. None of the horsey people I know from this area are on here but they might be some day so I don't want to say something and have someone read it later. I have said things but normally it's been talked about with that person before it's said.

The way I feel is if you don't want it shared don't write it down that's why I never keep journals etc. Not that my life is interesting anyway but I don't want to write something then yrs later have someone else read it, it creeps me out. We found letters I wrote to my husband before we were married, we burned them. There was nothing bad in them it just made me feel weird that someone might read them some day.

[HoustonFarrier]

First off....I think she/he/it WAS a troll.....probably some 13yo juvenile delinquent, who spends his day playing with himself and computers :p

Secondly...on fair use....INTENT is the biggest thing. For copyright infringement, one has to prove INTENT.....a tough standard, no doubt.

Steve

[Equine_Woman]

I don't know Steve, after reading that article about her horse and rabies she (the woman interviewed) sounds the same as the poster did yesterday. Defensive, and blaming everyone but herself. Everywhere I've seen that woman's name on the internet is the same. . . the world must be out to get her. Funny thing is after all that I still don't remember her name. . .lol

[HoustonFarrier]

...Defensive, and blaming everyone but herself...

Sounds like one of my ex-wives :D:D (what was her name ???? ) LOL

Steve

[Equine_Woman]

Sounds like one of my ex-wives :D:D (what was her name ???? ) LOL

Steve

Lol. . .

[gaited07]

I'd like to hear others chime in on how it works with the internet.


Does 'Author Unknown' count?


I would think that this statement would be like a release of liability/credibility from the poster. I could be wrong but it makes sense to me.

[Country Girl 43]

I'm curious... did anyone "try" to right click and copy that essay from her web page? And could it be done?

The only reason I ask is because, like someone mentioned before, there is a way to stop people from doing that with a simple HTML code. I have it on my website because I didn't want anyone copying some of the photos.

If she was so paranoid about it, then she should have applied that code to her webpage.

[TheRedHayflinger]

and even that code doesn't work if you know how to get around it(view, page source)

[cheval]

I have people snag my photos all the time. Generally when I find out 'who dunnit' it's young horse loving ladies who didn't know any better and I just let them know VERY nicely how to check for copyrights. In fact I've had a few of them this week. My view on it is if the 'theft' wasn't for profit, or personal use on say a wall. . .(where I should be paid for my work) then I'm cool with it. But I don't post my "GREAT" stuff up for anyone to steal freely. I keep that locked away. When I do events and such I charge one fee for all the photos and keep no rights to them. I don't print them myself, the person does. . so they can be reproduced as many times as the original owner likes. . . but I'm not cheap. . And I'd probably make more money doing it differently but so far it works for me. . .

How are you able to tell? I had a person take a picture off my Xanga blog and paint a picture of it and was selling it on eBay. I only found it on eBay because I often go there and do a search on 'draft horses' to find out what they have. I contacted her and told I thought she did a great drawing, but that she hadn't asked me to use the picture to make money off of. I asked her to remove it and when she said she wouldn't I contacted eBay with the picture and they told her she had to take it down or be removed as a seller.

[WashingtonBoy]

The only reason I ask is because, like someone mentioned before, there is a way to stop people from doing that with a simple HTML code. I have it on my website because I didn't want anyone copying some of the photos.

If she was so paranoid about it, then she should have applied that code to her webpage.It's only marginally effective, though. For one thing, it depends on javascript, and with one click, I can disable my browser's javascript and right-click to my heart's content. Or as Hayflinger mentioned, you can view the page source and get the image's url and access it directly. Plus, there is the fact that once you see the image in your browser, it's been downloaded to the browser cache on your computer. Anyone could go into their cache folder and get the photo from there.

And there's Google and other search engine caches, which store copies of pages and images for who knows how long.

Fact of the matter is, once something is on the internet, there is no getting the 'genie back in the bottle'. A good rule of thumb is - think twice, post once. If you don't want it 'out there', don't even post it. Or email it. Sometimes the best lessons are learned the hard way. :)

[cheval]

If you get to the cached sites you can often get the info. I know the Page Source works too.

ETA- Duderino beat me to the reply!

[TheRedHayflinger]

and a good way to prevent people from stealing your photos or artwork....a big ol' watermark. they can still take it, but it's pretty hard to remove your watermark that's plastered on there ;)

[WashingtonBay]

Cheval... was the painting good? I'd have just asked for a copy of it!

:)

[cheval]

I would have bought it from her if was wouldn't have been such a tool about not selling it. I'll go and see if I can find it in my files.

[cheval]

This is the picture. The one she used had him standing in a front of trees (not on a road) and she didn't put the star. Maybe by taking some artistic liberty and making the changes it wasn't a problem. But she was taking other pictures from other breed sites and painting those as well.


ETA: went ahead a removed it since even though it's from my picture I don't have her info to credit the painting to her.

[WashingtonBay]

See... if she's painting from a picture... I'm not sure there's an ethical problem from that. It wouldn't be illegal for her to stand outside the fence and take her own picture, or set up her easel and paint what she sees...

I dunno... But she did take it down from ebay?

[cheval]

eBay told me that they made her remove it and by the time I got back to the page it was gone. It seem that it's commercial gain and I thought that was a no-no.

[WashingtonBay]

It is a no-no if it was your photograph... but it's not... she just used your picture as a model. The painting is hers...

[cheval]

So I could draw a picture of Bay and start marketing them on eBay for profit??? There's got to be more to it than that.

[WashingtonBay]

Honestly... I don't see why 'not'. Seems to me the painting is entirely your creation, even if it's from looking at a picture you didn't take. It's not like you took my photo and made it into your art. It came from your hand and eye.

That would be my take on it anyway...

[cheval]

That's bizarre. Well, at least eBay took the complaint serious.

[TheRedHayflinger]

actually...you can get in trouble for copying others work...I can't go out and paint a well known photograph and sell the copies...or better yet..I can't find a picture of a model horse, draw it and sell the drawing...big BIG no no.

[cheval]

See that's what I thought.

[WashingtonBay]

Well, and obviously ebay agreed too... It just would not have been my instinct. Learn something every day!

[TheRedHayflinger]

I'm more than happy to let people use my photographs for artwork, so long as they ask first...but yeah..I tend to get upset if I see something that was obviously something I took a picture of reproduced in painting or drawing if the person didn't ask me first.